Hoosier A40S

[CsR41]

Is anyone else having issues with these tires? Every one I've seen is feathered or shredded after just a few laps.

[indyboywilliam]

I have talked to several guys and they all have said they are Garbage.... Feather in like 8 lap heat Races... and Burn them off in Features ....

[JustAddDirt]

no suprise

[dirtmod21]

Not good....I saw several tires from Lasalle and they were junked after hot laps and qualifying...

[blncfn57]

I hope the folks that cried about the D's end up with a trailer full of them junk things! Wait, who am I kidding, the ones bitch!ng about the D's don't buy new tires anyway.

[dirtracr33]

round round we go...maybe hoosier can get American racer to give'em some tips...ump and hoosier want to make as marginal a tire as possible to get more of your $...imho.....funny thing is years ago all we ran was d's, everybody, with no issues then all of the sudden bout five years ago, they would wear out unloading the car off the trailer.

[72Dubya]

Hoosier released a statement saying all the wear was from improper siping... all the junked ones I saw at LaSalle had no sipes in them whatsoever....

[72Dubya]

Taken directly from Hoosier Midwest:

Hoosier comments on new A40-S
HOOSIER Customers,
Everyone at Hoosier Racing Tire and our affiliated distributors and dealers are keeping a close eye on the performance of our new A40-S UMP Modified Tire.
It is my intent to attend UMP Mod events this coming weekend to see the results first-hand at Granite City, Pevely, and Quincy, IL.
We don’t want to rush to any judgment as early season track prep, weather conditions, and rule changes can often lead to unusual results.
One thing we know for sure from our tire testing is that everyone needs to reduce the amount and depth of their siping on the new A40-S. Let the tire do the work for you.
We single siped the test tires when we evaluated them and had no issues with chunking and the tires fired right away.
Also, the new A40-S will show a different wear characteristic than the old A40. Expect to see more grain and feathering. Buff the tire back to a smooth grain and race it again.
We found the new A40-S will repeat much better than the old A40 and the wear will prevent the tire from “sealing up” in marginal track conditions.
We had similar feedback initially on the LM30-S Late Model tire when customers oversiped and were too aggressive initially. Once they backed off their siping and got comfortable with the new wear pattern, they have been very happy ever since.
Yes, we need to monitor the situation directly over the next 2-3 weeks. However it is too early in the game to make any adjustments yet.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding and please feel free to give us a call if you have any more specific questions.
Sincerely,
Shanon Rush
Product Manager

[sirleafalot]

(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) just bought some of these clunkers cause in IL we can olny run H's or A's guess I need to find some old A's or buy some new H's. Thanks Hoosier.

[blncfn57]

round round we go...maybe hoosier can get American racer to give'em some tips...ump and hoosier want to make as marginal a tire as possible to get more of your $...imho.....funny thing is years ago all we ran was d's, everybody, with no issues then all of the sudden bout five years ago, they would wear out unloading the car off the trailer.


I never had a problem with the D's. Most of the problem is, people want a tire that does not wear out. It's not going to happen. Just because a tire still has tread does not mean it is still good. The guy that can buy new tires most often is going to have an advantage no matter what the tire rule is.

[blncfn57]

Taken directly from Hoosier Midwest:

Hoosier comments on new A40-S
HOOSIER Customers,
Everyone at Hoosier Racing Tire and our affiliated distributors and dealers are keeping a close eye on the performance of our new A40-S UMP Modified Tire.
It is my intent to attend UMP Mod events this coming weekend to see the results first-hand at Granite City, Pevely, and Quincy, IL.
We don’t want to rush to any judgment as early season track prep, weather conditions, and rule changes can often lead to unusual results.
One thing we know for sure from our tire testing is that everyone needs to reduce the amount and depth of their siping on the new A40-S. Let the tire do the work for you.
We single siped the test tires when we evaluated them and had no issues with chunking and the tires fired right away.
Also, the new A40-S will show a different wear characteristic than the old A40. Expect to see more grain and feathering. Buff the tire back to a smooth grain and race it again.
We found the new A40-S will repeat much better than the old A40 and the wear will prevent the tire from “sealing up” in marginal track conditions.
We had similar feedback initially on the LM30-S Late Model tire when customers oversiped and were too aggressive initially. Once they backed off their siping and got comfortable with the new wear pattern, they have been very happy ever since.
Yes, we need to monitor the situation directly over the next 2-3 weeks. However it is too early in the game to make any adjustments yet.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding and please feel free to give us a call if you have any more specific questions.
Sincerely,
Shanon Rush
Product Manager

That is not the same explanation given by the hoosier reps at LaSalle this past weekend. They said that the problem was that the tires are being sold so fast that they do not have enough cure time. Be interesting to see what becomes of this as time goes by.

[team jarvis]

lol sounds like Hoosier is gathering up excuses as they go, the wind was blowing to hard that day, the checks in the mail, the angle of the dangle...etc those that knew about this compound from the late models warn us that this compound was trouble and guess what....they were correct..... now Hoosier trying to do damage control.

[KynetixSolutions]

I'm 31 years old and I've made a living in racing for almost half my life, most of which was as a tire specialist. The problem at hand is they released a tire that just wasn't ready yet. The tires are to fresh and they can NOT withstand what these cars are asking out of them. There are ways to toughen the tire up, there are ways to make them last longer and there are ways to stop seeing what you racers are seeing. I'm not going to say that Hoosier won't do their job because that's not fair for me to do, it's a waiting game right now. What I can say is I'm not waiting and my customers will be taken care of.

[gummy63]

any body know what proper cure time is

[JustAddDirt]

probably let set in the sun and let them cook for a couple days.
(providing you are in a more sunny place than me in Southern Indiana)
Make sure you flip them, need to cook evenly.
Also recommend putting them in a black trash bag, so they do not get direct sunlight.
I do this with D's to stiffen them up a bit. basically like a few heat cycles.

[blackdirt]

The A-40 s announcment was made back in October 2014. Maybe they should have started there production earlier to have the proper cure time.
"Early season track prep,weather conditions and rule changes" This sounds like something Obama would say!

[DirtDirtCrazy]

Just curious...was this tire being used by anyone in Florida during Winter Nationals?
It seems this issue just popped up once everyone started racing the Midwest Tracks.

[JustAddDirt]

No tires were in Florida. at least that most know of.
I believe they started production in March.

[dirtmod21]

I was told that this tire was being tested at UMP fall nationals at Eldora. Not sure, but does anybody have proof of that?

[CsR41]

It was tested the day AFTER the nationals.

[JustAddDirt]

who ran them?

[KynetixSolutions]

The chosen ones were the ones who tested them. What Hoosier needs is time to let tires have a shelf life, they just simply waited to long before they started production for this years racing. Wiping hydrogen peroxide, methanol, gasoline, various solvents from a hardware store plus the addition of all the elements of the environment will help accelerate the curing process. Some of what you can end up seeing from doing this will some cracking in the tires, don't be overly concerned about this it's just the tire drying out some. The cracking will not hurt the performance of the tire.

[blackdirt]

So tire sales will go up, because the tires are not going to last due short cure times. There is a reason for everything this tire company does. They are not going to make a tire that lasts longer or better. That would be money out of there pocket.

[KynetixSolutions]

Well you can either complain about it or take some advice, either way the tire company is going to continue and the tire rules will not change. I'm giving you racers some free advice which is very rare in this sport. It's up to you how you use that advice.

[CsR41]

I don't know who was the driver JustAddDirt, but Shanon will openly tell you when it was tested.

[rustymod]

I don't know who was the driver JustAddDirt, but Shanon will openly tell you when it was tested.

either way goes to show you that both UMP and Hoosier dropped the ball and they are gonna laugh all the way to the bank as always.
All the tracks that dont allow D's are really take the brunt of the deal

[blackdirt]

Well you can either complain about it or take some advice, either way the tire company is going to continue and the tire rules will not change. I'm giving you racers some free advice which is very rare in this sport. It's up to you how you use that advice.

Thanks for the advice. The only problem is if I use these chemicals to make there tires work, and I get checked for an altered tire I will be called a tire cheat. I don't think I should have to do any work to a 128.00 tire.

[KynetixSolutions]

A high percentage Hydrogen Peroxide and a naturally weathered tire will pass the testing process, but it will take a couple weeks at least and its hard to get a concentrated version of Hydrogen Peroxide.

[1Blacksheep]

I like the new A' s from what I have seen , but I also loved the D's and ran them all night long most track conditions 4-5 races. Maybe the new A won't require you dopers out there to contaminate the air my driver breaths . Leave them in your closed up hot trailer all week after a cycle or 2 they will likely be better the next weekend .

[ChadJacks]

Brian Ruhlman (at Eldora) and Jamie Lomax I believe were two that tested the new A40S at the end of last year. Guess from the sounds of it there will be a lot more H's ran this year due to the excessive wear of these tires...

[wengersuperfan42]

I believe Jamie was going trailer to trailer trying to buy any new "old" As.

[team jarvis]

I believe Jamie was going trailer to trailer trying to buy any new "old" As. lol....heard from late model dude that the compound used in A40S is one they refused to use and would just go to next compound harder. Hoosier probably makes more bread on the A40S thus the change. The old A40 was not walk in the park, so to think they would go to something worse when so many tracks are allowing only As and Hs is just plain dumb.

[Deanhoffman]

There have been alot of issues in the St.Louis area!

[Loopy]

You are nothing but a bunch of crooked liars, you once had a good tire and working with the sanctioning bodies have done nothing but screwed the racers by developing a bunch of worthless tires that cost the racers when they are required to buy your junk. This statement sounds identical to the ones you have been telling the Wissota racer for how long and how much has it cost them over the years by having to replace useable tires with another newer better compound that doesn't last any longer.
You are the reason people can not afford to race and this once great sport is dieing at an alarming rate but your greed does not allow you to see how you are helping this to happen. Shame on you!!!


Taken directly from Hoosier Midwest:

Hoosier comments on new A40-S
HOOSIER Customers,
Everyone at Hoosier Racing Tire and our affiliated distributors and dealers are keeping a close eye on the performance of our new A40-S UMP Modified Tire.
It is my intent to attend UMP Mod events this coming weekend to see the results first-hand at Granite City, Pevely, and Quincy, IL.
We don’t want to rush to any judgment as early season track prep, weather conditions, and rule changes can often lead to unusual results.
One thing we know for sure from our tire testing is that everyone needs to reduce the amount and depth of their siping on the new A40-S. Let the tire do the work for you.
We single siped the test tires when we evaluated them and had no issues with chunking and the tires fired right away.
Also, the new A40-S will show a different wear characteristic than the old A40. Expect to see more grain and feathering. Buff the tire back to a smooth grain and race it again.
We found the new A40-S will repeat much better than the old A40 and the wear will prevent the tire from “sealing up” in marginal track conditions.
We had similar feedback initially on the LM30-S Late Model tire when customers oversiped and were too aggressive initially. Once they backed off their siping and got comfortable with the new wear pattern, they have been very happy ever since.
Yes, we need to monitor the situation directly over the next 2-3 weeks. However it is too early in the game to make any adjustments yet.
Thank you for your cooperation and understanding and please feel free to give us a call if you have any more specific questions.
Sincerely,
Shanon Rush
Product Manager

[team jarvis]

[.................................................. ..................................... .......................................

[blackdoom14]

What happened to my man from KS post about track canceling races due to junk A40S tires? Looks like it vanished like a fart in the wind.....what's the 411?

[sirleafalot]

read all about it on STL, A40S not going well http://www.stlracing.com/community/index.php?threads/hoosier-tire-rep-to-be-at-i-55-this-saturday-to-work-with-mods-on-new-a40s-tire.220339/

[wallis127]

Sounds just like Wissota's tire issues. 35, 35R now 35W....

To: All WISSOTA Competitors, Promoters, Board of Directors

From: Hoosier Racing Tire Corporation

Hoosier Racing Tire takes great pride in the high standard of quality of our products. Recent production of the WISSOTA 35 has not met this standard. We want to sincerely apologize to all competitors and promoters who have been adversely affected by premature wear experienced on the rear wheel positions.

We want to assure all WISSOTA members that we recognize the problem and have taken steps to identify the issue and implement a solution. As of today, we do not have an answer to the cause of the problems associated with the WISSOTA 35. We have collected data and witnessed first-hand the issues being experienced by some competitors. This situation is being given the highest priority in our company and we can confidently say we will have an answer as to the cause.

In order to ensure no further issues would be experienced by competitors, Hoosier, along with representatives of WISSOTA, conducted a tire test to find a viable replacement for the WISSOTA 35 on the rear of the car. The decision was made based on the results of this tire test, to introduce a WISSOTA 35-R tire to be run on the rear wheel positions. We are confident the WISSOTA 35-R will eliminate the problems being experienced with the WISSOTA 35 tire. No issues were seen, and testing confirmed, the current WISSOTA 35 tire is acceptable for front wheel positions.

Words cannot express our extreme disappointment in this situation, especially considering how well the WISSOTA 35 tire had performed since its introduction. Our intention is to continue to work to return to the WISSOTA 35 tire which you have had for the previous 2 years. We will be testing throughout this summer to accomplish that goal and will keep WISSOTA members updated on our progress.

In an effort to minimize the financial impact experienced by some competitors, Hoosier Racing Tire, along with Hoosier Tire North and your authorized Hoosier tire dealers, will be implementing a 100% return adjustment procedure for eligible WISSOTA 35 tires. In order for a tire to be eligible for 100% adjustment/replacement, it must meet the following criteria:

-WISSOTA 35 rear drive tire with a production code from affected batches.

-New (unused, unsiped, never mounted) WISSOTA 35 rear drive tire or

-Used WISSOTA 35 rear drive tire which shows visible signs of tread delamination/excessive wear/excessive tread chunking

Tires must be returned to an authorized Hoosier Tire dealer or directly to Hoosier Tire North. Affected tires must be returned by August 1, 2013. No tires pertaining to this issue will be adjusted after this date.

We again thank all WISSOTA Competitors, Promoters, and the WISSOTA Board of Directors for your patience and understanding in dealing with this situation. Everyone at Hoosier Racing Tire knows you deserve better, and we will strive to provide you with the quality product and service you have come to expect from us.

Sincerely,

Joyce Newton

President

65465 U.S. 31 · LAKEVILLE, INDIANA 46536 · Phone (574) 784-3152 · Fax (574) 784-2385 · WEBSITE: www.hoosiertire.com

[wadegarrett]

sure looking like Hoosier screwed the pooch on this deal. Read lot of comments on another board, (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) funny Hoosier now trying to blame the racing surface at I55. Track surface has been the same there for quite a while. Would be like blaming the same asphalt at a track when it was never repaved. To make matters worse UMP let the promoters say no more D's in a lot of places. So now what go out and buy some H's ?? (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) funny for Hoosier. Here the list of excuses so far: Too many racers siping the tires incorrectly Too abrasive racing surface Not enough cure time on the tires before they are sold The Wissota racers can tell you that none of these hold water... American Racer tires are looking better all the time. Time to dump UMP and Hoosier for a better tire for the class and a better sanction with only one tire option. Go ask the USRA racers they are not having these kind of issues. USRA is far from perfect but not this kind of grief.

[QQQQ]

I took a new A-s and covered it in Lime and wrapped it for a week and ran it last weekend on the RR during the heat and feature. Didnt even look like it hit the track .

[indyboywilliam]

QQQQ.............How did the Tire work?? any Traction?

[modracr41]

I took a new A-s and covered it in Lime and wrapped it for a week and ran it last weekend on the RR during the heat and feature. Didnt even look like it hit the track .

I think the point here is Hoosier screwed the pooch. You shouldn't have to do all that to new tires to go racing. You don't have to do that to AR's that's for sure.

[wadegarrett]

go talk to Dean Hoffman and he will tell you at I55 the new A40S did not even make one night. Hoosier is not doing there part, trying blame it one the racing surface,,,unreal its not like I55 brought in new abrasive dirt.

[george w]

go talk to Dean Hoffman and he will tell you at I55 the new A40S did not even make one night. Hoosier is not doing there part, trying blame it one the racing surface,,,unreal its not like I55 brought in new abrasive dirt. seems silly there able to make a sprint car tire last 55 laps there but not a mod tire .

[blncfn57]

It's only common sense that when people complained about the D's that there was no way hoosier and UMP were going to go without making money selling tires.

[modracr41]

If UMP had any sense, they'd tell Hoosier to bite the big one and partner with AR for the KK704's. It would level the playing field, make the high $$ motors obsolete, and save the racers money too. Oh wait, I need to wake up. That'll never happen......:(

[kidrock]

If UMP had any sense, they'd tell Hoosier to bite the big one and partner with AR for the KK704's. It would level the playing field, make the high $$ motors obsolete, and save the racers money too. Oh wait, I need to wake up. That'll never happen......:(

But, wait it could happen. If the racers would take a stand together. Now it does not affect me so, I really have no say in how the drivers or owners could take a stand but, I'm sure there are plenty of you out there that it does affect and would have some good ideas on what to do. Now getting the majority on board that's another story but, if you could just maybe things could change.

[CsR41]

A lot of us though, have sponsors that expect certain things.. Such as appearances. It's hard to risk that relationship too. On that note, I wish we COULD get rid of Hoosier!

[erm11]

Find a promoter with the balls to run these http://www.southwestspeed.com/?sec=view_part&id=9965
and dump ump.

[JustAddDirt]

ed
I would be all for that tire. Good luck with that though.
Really the only people it would effect is your people that run for UMP points, which I only know of Devin Gilpin in this area that does.

[indyboywilliam]

I would be ok with it .... also

[race21j]

I would run that tire. Or the G60.

[wadegarrett]

I would run that tire. Or the G60. kk704 G60 anything but the current lineup of over priced trash and the promoters tg get it or have no cars.

[modracr41]

Find a promoter with the balls to run these http://www.southwestspeed.com/?sec=view_part&id=9965
and dump ump.

That tire would be AWESOME, if they would keep that price, and it didn't wear out like the POS hoosiers. Otherwise, KK704 AR's are the way to go. IMCA used them for years before Hoosier bribed them with the $$ and they changed to the Hoosier IMCA G60. Has anyone run these tires on an A mod?

[blncfn57]

If UMP had any sense, they'd tell Hoosier to bite the big one and partner with AR for the KK704's. It would level the playing field, make the high $$ motors obsolete, and save the racers money too. Oh wait, I need to wake up. That'll never happen......:(

I have nothing against that tire, but are you serious? UMP listened to the guys that can't set a car up so that D's would last and basically made that tire not legal anywhere. Then they said, take the spoilers away, that will level the playing field since the guys won't be able to hook up the car without a spoiler. I'm not sure if you paid attention to the florida mod races, but the cars were FASTER this year without the soft tires and without them traction gaining spoilers. If you are worried about the engines, then either petition for some type of engine rule, a track issued restrictor plate, or use the claim rule. This B.S. with changing tires year to year and body dimensions/rules is dumb. The first place to start with saving the class is actually enforcing the rules that are already printed!!

[QQQQ]

I have nothing against that tire, but are you serious? UMP listened to the guys that can't set a car up so that D's would last and basically made that tire not legal anywhere. Then they said, take the spoilers away, that will level the playing field since the guys won't be able to hook up the car without a spoiler. I'm not sure if you paid attention to the florida mod races, but the cars were FASTER this year without the soft tires and without them traction gaining spoilers. If you are worried about the engines, then either petition for some type of engine rule, a track issued restrictor plate, or use the claim rule. This B.S. with changing tires year to year and body dimensions/rules is dumb. The first place to start with saving the class is actually enforcing the rules that are already printed!!I would have to agree with this statement.

[wadegarrett]

I would have to agree with this statement.all good points. Usra has a good tire and decent rules and actual tech. Ump needs to leave, wonder what kind bucks promoters ate getting to keep ump around

[stlracing]

go talk to Dean Hoffman and he will tell you at I55 the new A40S did not even make one night. Hoosier is not doing there part, trying blame it one the racing surface,,,unreal its not like I55 brought in new abrasive dirt.
Dean won the feature one night and finished 4th in the feature the other night. I don't remember him coming in and changing tires during the feature.

[kidrock]

I have nothing against that tire, but are you serious? UMP listened to the guys that can't set a car up so that D's would last and basically made that tire not legal anywhere. Then they said, take the spoilers away, that will level the playing field since the guys won't be able to hook up the car without a spoiler. I'm not sure if you paid attention to the florida mod races, but the cars were FASTER this year without the soft tires and without them traction gaining spoilers. If you are worried about the engines, then either petition for some type of engine rule, a track issued restrictor plate, or use the claim rule. This B.S. with changing tires year to year and body dimensions/rules is dumb. The first place to start with saving the class is actually enforcing the rules that are already printed!!

Would you please for life of me quit using common sense it's hurting my ears lol. Yes you are so right. Start with enforcing the rules you have and then work with the racers, car owners and tracks to come up with a good set of common sense rules and demand they be enforced.

[wadegarrett]

Dean won the feature one night and finished 4th in the feature the other night. I don't remember him coming in and changing tires during the feature.maybe not but on his post on you're site and fb he was less than pleased with a40s and he was not the only one

[modracr41]

I have nothing against that tire, but are you serious? UMP listened to the guys that can't set a car up so that D's would last and basically made that tire not legal anywhere. Then they said, take the spoilers away, that will level the playing field since the guys won't be able to hook up the car without a spoiler. I'm not sure if you paid attention to the florida mod races, but the cars were FASTER this year without the soft tires and without them traction gaining spoilers. If you are worried about the engines, then either petition for some type of engine rule, a track issued restrictor plate, or use the claim rule. This B.S. with changing tires year to year and body dimensions/rules is dumb. The first place to start with saving the class is actually enforcing the rules that are already printed!!

Again, you're correct. HOWEVER, UMP is not going to tech or enforce anything, and promoters won't for fear of running someone off, or offending the front runners. To top that off, UMP is who is changing the rules to this BS. The engines aren't helping anyone either. 800hp former 'cup engines, and the like that cost $20K and up to race for $600 is just plain stupid. Also, the D hoosiers aren't the answer. They are baby butt soft, and allow you to hook up a LOT of engine. They also wear out quicker than a hard tire, like the KK704. I'll look into my crystal ball here, and tell you that in 10 years, UMP modifieds won't be racing weekly at but a few tracks, the limited modifieds will have their rules changed to more of what an A mod was a few years ago, and car counts will be down, tracks will close, and the purses will be what they are currently with the same few cars racing each other for those purses. Now, let's see how it plays out. Good luck all and have a safe weekend.

[CsR41]

When you're shredding the edges on the RR tire in 3 hot laps, there is a problem.

[blncfn57]

Again, you're correct. HOWEVER, UMP is not going to tech or enforce anything, and promoters won't for fear of running someone off, or offending the front runners. To top that off, UMP is who is changing the rules to this BS. The engines aren't helping anyone either. 800hp former 'cup engines, and the like that cost $20K and up to race for $600 is just plain stupid. Also, the D hoosiers aren't the answer. They are baby butt soft, and allow you to hook up a LOT of engine. They also wear out quicker than a hard tire, like the KK704. I'll look into my crystal ball here, and tell you that in 10 years, UMP modifieds won't be racing weekly at but a few tracks, the limited modifieds will have their rules changed to more of what an A mod was a few years ago, and car counts will be down, tracks will close, and the purses will be what they are currently with the same few cars racing each other for those purses. Now, let's see how it plays out. Good luck all and have a safe weekend.

I can't disagree with this post in general, but I will comment on a few points.

The tracks all have the option of allowing however many of the hoosier emod tires that they wish. Most, if not all tracks have not been allowing the D's, but are allowing the A, H, and the new A40S. That is the tracks choice. I never said the D tire was the answer, just that the folks that couldn't make them work lobbied until they are virtually not allowed and now look what we got, a tire that's worse yet! Until this fiasco is straightened out what is a racer supposed to do?? buy H's???
I also do not feel that you are going to discourage the guys that have the big money to spend. If they don't spend it on motors they will find somewhere else to spend it. More than likely it will get spent on technology and engineering help, which puts the little guy at a bigger disadvantage than he was at racing against a big motor. I do not know the answer to fix the class, but I do feel the intimidation of going thru a decent tech inspection every night would help, if nothing else it would make everyone feel better knowing that the cars are tech'd. Heck, I haven't even seen a track check the brakes on all the cars in prolly close to 10 years.... that in itself is scary!!!

[lou9a]

Take away the 4 link rear suspension, allow 3 link rear suspension only with around a 40 inch lift bar, max 5 shocks on the car, 2500 engine claim or exchange rule, American Racer medium compound tires, 2400 minimum weight, enforce the rules and let's go race. Back to basics ....save the class.

[race21j]

Take away the 4 link rear suspension, allow 3 link rear suspension only with around a 40 inch lift bar, max 5 shocks on the car, 2500 engine claim or exchange rule, American Racer medium compound tires, 2400 minimum weight, enforce the rules and let's go race. Back to basics ....save the class.Most of those rules are already in place. They call them B mods or Sport mods. Not going to happen to the A mods.

[wadegarrett]

Most of those rules are already in place. They call them B mods or Sport mods. Not going to happen to the A mods. not in UMP, they allow 4 bars for Bmods and are mandating crates.....again not helping things. Now IMCA sport mod rules much like what you describe 3 links etc. UMP bmods still use the same (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty tire we are stuck with too.

[indyboywilliam]

I like 4 bar cars.... a lot of them cars out there to get hands on reasonable.....just restrict the engines is what makes it cost affective and get us a good tire....

[wadegarrett]

I like 4 bar cars.... a lot of them cars out there to get hands on reasonable.....just restrict the engines is what makes it cost affective and get us a good tire.... Indy the 4 bar setup is part of the issue with this class. Keeping 4bar does not help, btw switching a 4 bar to a 3link could not be much easier. # bar and leaf cars only and some actual engine rules and real tire and this class would last a while longer.

[dirtracerl77]

No matter how many rules you put in place, the fast guys will still be fast. The more rules you put in place, the more expensive it gets. Look at nascar. There engine rules are very strict, it is also one of the most expensive engines to build.

[MM90]

"The only engine rule restriction should be a hard tire." I read that in a magazine a month ago.

[blncfn57]

No matter how many rules you put in place, the fast guys will still be fast. The more rules you put in place, the more expensive it gets. Look at nascar. There engine rules are very strict, it is also one of the most expensive engines to build.

BINGO! and what do you think will happen when there is only ONE tire and it is HARD?

[wadegarrett]

BINGO! and what do you think will happen when there is only ONE tire and it is HARD? harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer

[indyboywilliam]

Well I think we all agree on the Tire Rule..... That's a start... HARD TIRES ..... = GOOD FOR SPORT

[dirtracerl77]

I never had a problem with the old A. Our testing, on the few laps I had on the A S tire, is that it had the same wear characteristic as the D. I see no reason for tires that soft in the modified. Hoosier announced that they are going to make a H in a 26.5 also.

[indyboywilliam]

when are they making H 26.5 ???

[blncfn57]

harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer

would it cost less? are you going to say that when the hot shots are doping their tires and if you don't you are back in the same boat you are now? Who covers the cost of the labs to check tires to keep people from doping them? It all costs money! Have you ever been to an open mod show where they allow IMCA/USMTS type rules along with UMP? The tires are not that big of a difference. The guys that run hard tires all the time are very good on them and they win against the emod tires a fair share of the time. Racers are not going to give up on traction. Take the simple things like tires away and it will cause more to be spent somewhere else to make up for it.

How many heat cycles can be put thru a tire before it isn't any good anymore? If a tire has tread that still looks like new, does that make it a good tire? Even with a hard tire, isn't the guy that can afford new ones the most often at an advantage?

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, the guys that should be in hornet cars to begin with complained and got the soft tires and spoilers taken away. What happened? The guys that spend time working on their cars instead of complaining how unfair things are, went to florida and put down faster lap times than they did with the soft tires and spoilers. Yet we still have people thinking hard tires will bring their backmarker friend up to speed with the guys that work on their stuff and can drive!

rant over

[wadegarrett]

would it cost less? are you going to say that when the hot shots are doping their tires and if you don't you are back in the same boat you are now? Who covers the cost of the labs to check tires to keep people from doping them? It all costs money! Have you ever been to an open mod show where they allow IMCA/USMTS type rules along with UMP? The tires are not that big of a difference. The guys that run hard tires all the time are very good on them and they win against the emod tires a fair share of the time. Racers are not going to give up on traction. Take the simple things like tires away and it will cause more to be spent somewhere else to make up for it.How many heat cycles can be put thru a tire before it isn't any good anymore? If a tire has tread that still looks like new, does that make it a good tire? Even with a hard tire, isn't the guy that can afford new ones the most often at an advantageLike I mentioned in an earlier post, the guys that should be in hornet cars to begin with complained and got the soft tires and spoilers taken away. What happened? The guys that spend time working on their cars instead of complaining how unfair things are, went to florida and put down faster lap times than they did with the soft tires and spoilers. Yet we still have people thinking hard tires will bring their backmarker friend up to speed with the guys that work on their stuff and can drive!rant overok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?I have new for you, you can work on your setup 24/7, but right now the top cars in ump have 25k in engine alone,....and a soft tires to hook it up with. Try hooking up same hp on harder tire, and it will not be near as easy. Not only that but a cheaper tire allows more teams to get newer tires. We have been doing it the ump way no for years and the only class that's growing are bmods and sport mods. If your theory is correct then why aren't amods growing in numbers??

[blncfn57]

ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?



I don't think you get the point. The guys that are fast are fast because they live, eat and breathe racing. They spend time working on their cars and understand what the car needs instead of guessing and spending money where they don't need to. The guys that rely on others to tell them how to setup their car and don't understand why they are making the changes are often outspending the guys they are crying about and/or accusing of cheating. These days everyone wants and has the ability to buy a bolt together car, no skills needed. They want to spend stupid money on a car because such and such has one and wins all the time. There are no secrets! Yes, the cars today are sophisticated, but the folks racing them are human and you just have to be better than them. There are no secret, magical parts that they only have access to.There are ways to save money. You don't have to go buy a $20,000 mullins motor to compete if you can work on one yourself. You don't have to pay a chassis builder to fix your stuff if you know how to do it. If you don't know how to do any of the stuff yourself to save money then I question just why in the he!! you are involved in it to begin with.

[blncfn57]

ok let's see so you are saying that we are somehow better of with no engine rules and a soft overpriced tire....so it costs more to run the class and somehow this is better?"""I don't agree. What you think people aren't doping tires now?? Lolwouldn't matter cause ump is not doing any tech anyway. this class would be much better off with a cheaper tire that's harder and costs less and some tech right now things are not great and costs are way up, so again exactly how is the better?I have new for you, you can work on your setup 24/7, but right now the top cars in ump have 25k in engine alone,....and a soft tires to hook it up with. Try hooking up same hp on harder tire, and it will not be near as easy. Not only that but a cheaper tire allows more teams to get newer tires. We have been doing it the ump way no for years and the only class that's growing are bmods and sport mods. If your theory is correct then why aren't amods growing in numbers??

and why is the class not growing? What class is? the 4 cylinder class doesn't have any cars either! Where I'm at the mod class has the highest car count.

[kidrock]

harder tire would make at least the tires costs less, less to buy and last longer so this would be an improvement and harder to hook up would help the class. Yes fast dudes will be fast still. The current program is not working so its easy to say that ideas wont work, but we already know whats not working, its called the current UMP and there over priced tire, to continue to go down this path is not the answer

The Question is would you support a track that dumps UMP?

[kidrock]

I wouldn't think that fast guys would give a chit if they require a hard tire or not as long as it last and saves everyone money. It is only beneficial to them to keep as many racers as possible in the class.

[blncfn57]

I wouldn't think that fast guys would give a chit if they require a hard tire or not as long as it last and saves everyone money. It is only beneficial to them to keep as many racers as possible in the class.

I also don't think they care if the guy that is constantly running 3 laps down at the end of the race can afford tires to race.......

[blueracer11]

I like 4 bar cars.... a lot of them cars out there to get hands on reasonable.....just restrict the engines is what makes it cost affective and get us a good tire....

Indy, do you not understand that 4 bar cars ARE the exact same car as 3 bar cars? Your set up is the only difference. You remove the top bars, lock the bird cages, and remove the liftbar/torque arm and replace with a pull bar. Waa laah, 3 bar car. Easy to drive, easy to tune, and does not hook up as much HP as 4 bar. Combine that with hard tire, and some tech, and you have a good class that more can afford to run.

[indyboywilliam]

I do understand ... just my opinion that its not the way to go..... like a__ __ holes everyone has one lol

[wadegarrett]

The Question is would you support a track that dumps UMP? kidrock why yes I would certainly support a track that is non UMP, bring it on !! I hope others would as well. I know more than one person that runs USRA now, and they are far from perfect but a much better option that UMP. Cheaper tire that last longer a some actual tech and still have liberal engine rules.... seems like a decent fit. I realize this is not easy and promoters would have to switch....what I will say is what we have now is not working. for those of you that dont go to STL racing much, or in case is was not already posted Hoosier will no longer make the A40S they are going back to the A40 compound from before. In the end what it means to me is that UMP will do whatever Hoosier wants whenever Hoosier wants it and we pay the bill. Arent others sick of the constant alphabet soup from UMP and Hoosier ??? Race in Indiana great you can Run D40s Race in IL or MO you must run A's and maybe Hs because the A40s are not so good right now RAce with USRA you need one tire thats 30 bucks cheaper and last longer....seems like a real easy choice. Why cant UMP go with one tire ???? Cause they are too busy putting money from Hoosier in there pocket.

[CsR41]

According to Hoosier Midwest, Hoosier is NOT making a 26.5 H for UMP. They state they have been lobbying for it for years.

[blncfn57]

Arent others sick of the constant alphabet soup from UMP and Hoosier ??? .

No, for the most part the guys are happy until the guys racing 2 classes above their knowledge and pocketbook start crying making them constantly change.

[wadegarrett]

No, for the most part the guys are happy until the guys racing 2 classes above their knowledge and pocketbook start crying making them constantly change. a fool and his money are soon parted..... The current BS from Hoosier and UMP is well just that, no reason you should not be able to run all three tires at all UMP tracks. At 130 to 140 each it makes no sense. UMP and Hoosier are laughing all the way to the bank and everyone with some sense can see that. Part of being a good business is realizing with you are getting taken and guess what this is it..UMP and Hoosier are taking the racers to the cleaners. But hey if you are ok with paying more for poor service and a poor product then have at it. Its not a good business model. anyone can see that. oh and btw plenty are not happy with the tires http://www.stlracing.com/community/index.php?threads/hoosier-tire-rep-to-be-at-i-55-this-saturday-to-work-with-mods-on-new-a40s-tire.220339/

[blueracer11]

I also don't think they care if the guy that is constantly running 3 laps down at the end of the race can afford tires to race.......

blncfn57, where are you getting that racers are happy? I have a question for you: if you could race your car with the same engine you currently have, the same body dimensions you currently have, the same everything, other than a cheaper tire would you do it? I would think everything else being the same, a cheaper tire would a) give the guys who fund their own racing a break on cost, and b) give the guys with more money even more tires for the same money. How is either of those a bad thing?

[blncfn57]

blncfn57, where are you getting that racers are happy? I have a question for you: if you could race your car with the same engine you currently have, the same body dimensions you currently have, the same everything, other than a cheaper tire would you do it? I would think everything else being the same, a cheaper tire would a) give the guys who fund their own racing a break on cost, and b) give the guys with more money even more tires for the same money. How is either of those a bad thing?

OK, maybe not 100% happy, but where are they? Where are the top guys at? they are not on here complaining! I'm just going to guess that they are in the shop working on their cars. The most I have heard the top guys complaining about is sh!t changing all the time, maybe I just miss them b!tching about not being able to afford it. You all just keep running them hard tires because they still LOOK good and have good tread left..... and wonder why you're getting beat. While you're at it maybe you can lobby UMP to make a rule that you have to run tires for one whle season before buying new ones!!

[kidrock]

I also don't think they care if the guy that is constantly running 3 laps down at the end of the race can afford tires to race.......

what about the guys that are not 3 laps down? They better start caring for everyone and not just themselves because kind of Hard to race by yourself.

[kidrock]

kidrock why yes I would certainly support a track that is non UMP, bring it on !! I hope others would as well. I know more than one person that runs USRA now, and they are far from perfect but a much better option that UMP. Cheaper tire that last longer a some actual tech and still have liberal engine rules.... seems like a decent fit. I realize this is not easy and promoters would have to switch....what I will say is what we have now is not working. for those of you that dont go to STL racing much, or in case is was not already posted Hoosier will no longer make the A40S they are going back to the A40 compound from before. In the end what it means to me is that UMP will do whatever Hoosier wants whenever Hoosier wants it and we pay the bill. Arent others sick of the constant alphabet soup from UMP and Hoosier ??? Race in Indiana great you can Run D40s Race in IL or MO you must run A's and maybe Hs because the A40s are not so good right now RAce with USRA you need one tire thats 30 bucks cheaper and last longer....seems like a real easy choice. Why cant UMP go with one tire ???? Cause they are too busy putting money from Hoosier in there pocket.

Really can't talk to much about it but, have heard there are some rumblings of a couple of tracks seriously considering it for next year. Heard they are tired of the way things are going with UMP and a lot of their drivers are complaining as well. Probably won't happen but, I told a guy that if a track would do it and have a decent payout and a point fund they would have more cars then they could handle.

[indyboywilliam]

Agreed kidrock.... Tracks better wake up !! Instead of making big business for tire manufacturers and sanctionioning bodies ..... Put the money back into the tracks and the racers hands .... If tracks would work together wouldnt need the sanctioning just my opinion.. Maybe tracks should take a vote by drivers and get there input on things and do what the drivers want

[blueracer11]

OK, maybe not 100% happy, but where are they? Where are the top guys at? they are not on here complaining! I'm just going to guess that they are in the shop working on their cars. The most I have heard the top guys complaining about is sh!t changing all the time, maybe I just miss them b!tching about not being able to afford it. You all just keep running them hard tires because they still LOOK good and have good tread left..... and wonder why you're getting beat. While you're at it maybe you can lobby UMP to make a rule that you have to run tires for one whle season before buying new ones!!

I'm sorry but I just don't understand where you're coming from. I do agree about the rules constantly changing. It's because they have rules in place that aren't working. They're trying to extend the life of the class. I'm not complaining about being able to afford anything. I'm simply saying that hard tires level the playing field for everyone as well as helping to limit the high HP engines. That has absolutely nothing to do with my getting beaten or not. On a level playing field that won't matter as much. Shoot, I'm all for a 6500 chip too, but you'd hear so much squealing and complaining with that one it'll never happen. Also, none of this is meant to be smart azz comments. I'm wondering why you feel the need to do so? Less expensive racing is good for everyone.

[kidrock]

Agreed kidrock.... Tracks better wake up !! Instead of making big business for tire manufacturers and sanctionioning bodies ..... Put the money back into the tracks and the racers hands .... If tracks would work together wouldnt need the sanctioning just my opinion.. Maybe tracks should take a vote by drivers and get there input on things and do what the drivers want

I couldn't have said it any better. I like the way you think. I would love to have a vote and see where the drivers and car owners are on this. Like I said a good payout and a decent point fund and look out. Guys are just tired of UMP and the way they are running their sanction. I'm not going to sit here and say it's all bad because it's not but, I would think they could do things a little better. I would at least take a handful of drivers from different tracks. Some front runners, middle of the pack and some back markers and at least see if they don't have some ideas on how to make things a little better for all I'm not saying penalize the guys that do go out and work hard on their cars to make them better but, at least hammer out some cost saving measures. We realize the front runners are going to be the front runners but, if they can save everyone money I would think it's better for all. Just my 2 cents which I know isn't worth 2 cents.

[backspace]

Promoters had a very good chance to dump UMP this year as a lot of racers were tired of their crap,,,but as always the promoters sucked ass and signed up with them again,,,,,,sticker shocks,,this tire,,no that tire,, maybe this tire,,,just like a woman with PMS..LOL

[kidrock]

Promoters had a very good chance to dump UMP this year as a lot of racers were tired of their crap,,,but as always the promoters sucked ass and signed up with them again,,,,,,sticker shocks,,this tire,,no that tire,, maybe this tire,,,just like a woman with PMS..LOL

I agree, this was the year because, your right so many racers and owners were pretty disgusted by UMP. Rule changes that don't amount to much and then others that just cost the racers more money and then throw in the sanction fee on top of the BS. I have heard some say it's just not worth all the BS anymore and something needs to change and sooner rather then later. The guys need to take a stance and tell the promoters they are not paying for a sanction fee unless things change. like I said it's not all bad. It just needs to be tweaked. And I would say by the owners, drivers and UMP

[QQQQ]

This has been a great thread, with many well thought out posts. Kind of unusual for this site, but I digress. If there is one thing that is clear to me it’s this. UMP and the Track promoters aren’t going to do anything for racers. You are the Labor and they are the Management, making all the rules. If you want change you have to make it happen for yourselves. This is why I propose the Fraternal Association of Racing Teams, or (F.A.R.T) for short. Its time to make some noise in the racing world and let F.A.R.T be that noise! Do you think the rules stink? F.A.R.T can fix that for you. Its time for the winds of change to blow, its time we all F.A.R.T!

[sirleafalot]

I agree, this was the year because, your right so many racers and owners were pretty disgusted by UMP. Rule changes that don't amount to much and then others that just cost the racers more money and then throw in the sanction fee on top of the BS. I have heard some say it's just not worth all the BS anymore and something needs to change and sooner rather then later. The guys need to take a stance and tell the promoters they are not paying for a sanction fee unless things change. like I said it's not all bad. It just needs to be tweaked. And I would say by the owners, drivers and UMP saw usra dudes at PRI and they are trying to move east. better tire, allowing spoilers, engine rules that would allow the current ump engines and they tech cars too. only thing i can figure is promoters are scared to switch or ump and hoosier must be paying some decent cash. this year was indeed the year to move with the spoiler and tire deal going on...can only hope that at the end of this season racers wont forget the tire disaster with the a40s etc. Down in STL they had a big discussion on bmod rules after ump was looking to change things too. bmods dudes I talk to are still not happy that they are being forced to go crate as they add more weight every year for not running one per ump rules. ump does not seem to be looking out for anyone but ump.

[powerslide]

What do all these UMP tires punch on the duro? I run USRA stuff and know what the KK-704 punches in say 70 degree weather.

[indyboywilliam]

I have talked to a few track promoters in Central Illinois and if they could get a few tracks to go with them they would Jump ship from UMP.... Maybe all Drivers with the same interests should talk to your local promoter and give your 2cents on that subject. I agree UMP isn't all bad but they don't seem to be listening to the drivers and going in direction that drivers are asking

[dirtracerl77]

The A tire is around a 52, The A s tire is around a 49.

[modracr41]

The hardness of the tire is not the only issue. The 40 series tire is knee deep in tread, which again allows more HP to be put to the ground. The KK704/G60 tires tread is about 1/2 or less of that. They wear good, and last just longer than the 40 series tires do. The big thing here is limiting the high $$, high HP engines which are killing this class.

[powerslide]

The KK 704 is around a 45-50. So The softness is not the issue. If the tread is that deep put it on a spin balancer and cut some tread off to keep it from tearing up so bad. You cut off some meat but in the end it will last longer because it doesn't tear itself up. Shouldn't have to do this but racers have been modifying everything from the beginning of time.

I thought this thread was started to complain about the tire wearing out and being junk after a night? Not about engines

[napoleondynamite]

The new A40S tires seem to be the issue here, and Hoosier claims they're suspending production of them so we'll see what happens. Old A40's in the interim I guess.

[72Dubya]

What do all these UMP tires punch on the duro? I run USRA stuff and know what the KK-704 punches in say 70 degree weather.

Brand new tires in 2014 punched on our durometer as follows:

D40: 40-45
A40: 50-55
H40: 65-75 (Hoosier seems to be very inconsistent with the H's IMO, I have never bought two that punched the same)

[$UMP$]

No, for the most part the guys are happy until the guys racing 2 classes above their knowledge and pocketbook start crying making them constantly change.
Great post!

[kidrock]

The problem is there are not that many guys that can afford it. Every year it gets less and less that actually can but, I say keep the A- mods for the guys that can afford it and get a set of rules for the B-Mods the same instead of different rules for different tracks. They do that in a couple of years the B-Mods will pass the A-Mods in car counts. I'm just curious then the guys that can afford it should not be complaining about the new tire right? Because after all they can afford it. Really for me it don't matter because,I have no vested interest just a fan of racing so, really I have no say. Just think it's healthy to have a good conversation about how to keep the sport on solid ground.

[kidrock]

Have to at least give Hoosier credit for stopping production of the new tire.

[wadegarrett]

I have talked to a few track promoters in Central Illinois and if they could get a few tracks to go with them they would Jump ship from UMP.... Maybe all Drivers with the same interests should talk to your local promoter and give your 2cents on that subject. I agree UMP isn't all bad but they don't seem to be listening to the drivers and going in direction that drivers are asking bring it on , bring the spoilers back, get a better tire and still have simular engine rules and let them role. and one tire for all tracks...now we are talking

[Lucky13x]

Anybody else see this? Looks like the A40 is back in production.

[wadegarrett]

Anybody else see this? Looks like the A40 is back in production. Glad to See UMP..er ,,,I mean Hoosier letting us know what tires are legal at UMP eeer I mean Hoosier tracks for the rest of the season. (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) funny UMP/Hoosier are really just one big company.

[KynetixSolutions]

Check out Kynetix Racing Solutions on Facebook. We are doing amazing things with these tires, as well as all the others as well. No prep, just making them last and faster.