Brand new genx spring rates?

[outofcontrol]

We have a new genx was curious on what springs to try because we will be running a 510 pound steel ford engine the overall weight of the car is 2500 pounds with a 220 pound driver, we ran the same engine last year in a 2011 genx felt like the car stayed on the nose ,no weight transfer or traction and help would be great

[keeks]

I think you would be best going with MB's recommendations, and try to get your car's scaled weights close to the numbers as well.

[outofcontrol]

Went with there recommend springs no movement in car stayed flat and rf bottomed out put 600 in lf and 500 in rf no movement still rf shock about 3/4 inch from bump travel wise any ideas? Car has 53.5 rear % have a 325 on lift bar should I increase it since car is so heavy?

[7uptruckracer]

Where is motor mounted. I THINK all the ford weight is in the block if memory serves me correctly

[outofcontrol]

It's in the bottom hole on mid plate to get it as high as possible

[7uptruckracer]

No bent shock shafts it doesn't take much. Something isn't adding up you should be able to run like a 350 ish RF as a base in most any cars. Post your whole setup. and definitely check for any binds

[outofcontrol]

Car had 53.9 left 53.5 rear shocks are fresh from accufforce ohlins 1st night on them lr chain set at 13 inche's had 500 on lf 350 on rf 200 lr 225 rr 325 lift bar spring car overall weight is 2495 with 20 gallon of fuel I got 75lbs mounted above rear end motor weight alone is 510 I'm wondering of its to heavy to lift it

[Matt49]

Car had 53.9 left 53.5 rear shocks are fresh from accufforce ohlins 1st night on them lr chain set at 13 inche's had 500 on lf 350 on rf 200 lr 225 rr 325 lift bar spring car overall weight is 2495 with 20 gallon of fuel I got 75lbs mounted above rear end motor weight alone is 510 I'm wondering of its to heavy to lift it

That motor could way 1000 pounds and you should still get movement in your race car.
How long is your j-bar and where is it mounted on each end?
You REALLY need to check everything for binds if you haven't yet. Take all of your springs off of the shocks and bolt the shocks back up to the car and make sure all 4 corners move up and down smoothly through full range of motion. Do this on the front end with steering at several different places in its range of motion. Make sure that your drive shaft isn't bottoming out in the transmission.

What do you have for shocks?

[outofcontrol]

Ohlins they all moved freely

[outofcontrol]

On j bar it's 8 3/4 on frame And all the way the way on the bottom on pinion plate side to side is 16 5/8 I gotta be missing somthin what's thoughst on a heavy lift bar spring? To help lift car like 350 375 maybe Even a 400?

[outofcontrol]

On j bar it's 8 3/4 on frame And all the way the way on the bottom on pinion plate side to side is 16 5/8 I gotta be missing somthin what's thoughst on a heavy lift bar spring? To help lift car like 350 375 maybe Even a 400?

[Matt49]

The lift bar isn't what hikes the car going into the corner. Pinion mounts for the j-bar are all different. How far below the center of the pinion shaft is the center of the j-bar bolt?
How are your shocks set? How many clicks off or full compression and rebound on each corner?
Is your right front showing travel (use your travel indicators)?

[hucktyson]

Matt what is the relevance of his click settings when you Have no clue what pistons , shim stacks , needle arrangement or
Compression adjustment stack he has ??? Going full soft to full stiff could move 10lbs or 800 depending on how the shocks are set up.

[Matt49]

Matt what is the relevance of his click settings when you Have no clue what pistons , shim stacks , needle arrangement or
Compression adjustment stack he has ??? Going full soft to full stiff could move 10lbs or 800 depending on how the shocks are set up.

Yes the pistons and shimming matter a ton but if the guy comes back and tells that he's got the RF compression 2 clicks and the LR rebound at 2 clicks, I think we've found our problem.

I know that you don't think the adjustments on the shocks do anything but you're wrong about that. 1 click of adjustment on some shocks makes a huge difference (e.g. going from 8+1 to 8+2 on the rebound side of Geneses BRD.

But that isn't really what this discussion is about. Do you have anything you would like to contribute to help the guy fix his car or are you just starting sh!t as usual?

[Ralphy]

I agree Matt. We have totally ruined some good race cars adjusting anything you could get a wrench on trying to correct handling issues to later find out that our shocks were way off.

[outofcontrol]

Will have to check on exact positions on shock settings they came straight from Keith burner at accufforce and bolted on car he had them preset for basic setup with the 500 on the car in burried the rf in the bump stop so I cut the top 2 steps off it and it was 3/4 of inch from hitting the bump with the 350 it was bottomed out like trying to smash threw the bump. J bar on the pinion plate which came from masters is below the pinion not sure on exact measurement I appreciate the help I'm stumped ran a smack car last year with all alluminum Chevy and it worked good but iv been told the gen x is a different feel but I understand no traction is no traction and zero movement is not somthing a bar car should do

[Matt49]

Will have to check on exact positions on shock settings they came straight from Keith burner at accufforce and bolted on car he had them preset for basic setup with the 500 on the car in burried the rf in the bump stop so I cut the top 2 steps off it and it was 3/4 of inch from hitting the bump with the 350 it was bottomed out like trying to smash threw the bump. J bar on the pinion plate which came from masters is below the pinion not sure on exact measurement I appreciate the help I'm stumped ran a smack car last year with all alluminum Chevy and it worked good but iv been told the gen x is a different feel but I understand no traction is no traction and zero movement is not somthing a bar car should do

The lower you go on the j-bar at the pinion, the more the call will want to roll. At or just below pinion might be a little high for what you have on the frame side. Try putting it about an inch below the pinion. That may help. But you should be getting some action where it is.
Call Keith and double check your shock settings. The Ohlins adjust in "clicks" and 0 clicks is turned all the way clockwise and that is full stiff. Then you count clicks counter-clockwise. Check your LR rebound. Depending on valving, you want that 25-40 clicks out. I'm wondering if you aren't way too stiff there. As viewed from below, turn that clockwise until it stops and see how many clicks it goes. If it is 15 or fewer, I think that's your problem.
Do you just run one shock on the LR? Or do you run a second shock on the front of the birdcage?

[hucktyson]

Matt can you re read what I wrote ??? I said
Some shocks going full soft to full stuff can move 10 pounds and some shocks can move 800 pounds. Im well aware that shock adjustments can make a huge difference but only if the shock is built in such a manner to allow a significant adjustment. I have seen a right rear that went from 86 to 92 lbs of rebound @ 3" from full soft to full stiff. And no I don't think many drivers would feel such an insignificant adjustment.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Will have to check on exact positions on shock settings they came straight from Keith burner at accufforce and bolted on car he had them preset for basic setup with the 500 on the car in burried the rf in the bump stop so I cut the top 2 steps off it and it was 3/4 of inch from hitting the bump with the 350 it was bottomed out like trying to smash threw the bump. J bar on the pinion plate which came from masters is below the pinion not sure on exact measurement I appreciate the help I'm stumped ran a smack car last year with all alluminum Chevy and it worked good but iv been told the gen x is a different feel but I understand no traction is no traction and zero movement is not somthing a bar car should do

Sounds like the front end is moving. Where is the movement not happening? The car doesn't have to lift the front end to have traction.

[outofcontrol]

the lr feels like its not coming up on bars the lift bar spring is a 325 and it showed about 6 inches of travel on 5th coil is that to much travel

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

the lr feels like its not coming up on bars the lift bar spring is a 325 and it showed about 6 inches of travel on 5th coil is that to much travel

Way too much.

[outofcontrol]

so what would you recomend going to stiffer spring could that be the reason the rear has no action

[hucktyson]

Are you measuring this travel at ride height or on jack stands ? I
Don't even think there's 6" available at ride height before the shock bottoms out. Do you have any preload on it ?

[outofcontrol]

At ride height sitting on the ground 2 turns of preload we put a additional 4 turns in it and made some practice laps it reduced travel down to around 4 inches and car starter to move a little but not a lot

[7uptruckracer]

Thats ALOT of travel maybe its trying to lift the front?

[rakracing]

I've always found with 7" of pinion angle anything over 4" of travel on the 5th shock levels the rear with drive shaft angle and breaks traction, i'd go back to the setup sheet and make shore all the setting are right, rear location, pinion angle,, and make shore the spring is a 325 and not a 225.

[Matt49]

Do you have your 5th coil way back by chance? The further back it is, the softer it "feels" to the rear end and that can make it travel more. This causes a lot of axle wrap up which raises the pinion side of the j-bar and can get you really loose.
Obviously we're all kind of making educated guesses at this point but this could be part of your problem. How far out is your 5th coil? For a 325 I wouldn't want it any closer than 33".

[outofcontrol]

It's at 36 inches