Mod - Car Counts - Central Illinois

[DirtDirtCrazy]

As a Mod Fan, I guess I am a little concerned about the low car counts at some of the tracks we travel to throughout the season. These are the number of Mods that were listed in the Features from this last weekends results:

Friday - May 1
Fayette County - 10
Farmer City - 17
Vermilion County - ? (cannot find results anywhere, but FB posts indicate low count)

Saturday - May 2
Charleston - 11
Macon - 11
Route 45 - 11 (This was a $1,500 to win special)
Fairbury - 20

I am hopeful that this is just an early season trend and the counts get better for all. There are a lot more Mods out there than LM's and my hope is that they remain a stronghold for these tracks.

[indyboywilliam]

Too expensive for the payouts!! Motors out of control!!

[dirtmod#8]

we have a 08 shaw sitting in race shop right now. has not been raced in two years. cant compete with 30,000 dollar motors, 1,000 dollar shocks, exc. normal person cant do it. cant make it on show up money. love the mods but ump and others have made it that way. enforce rules, make them for EVERYONE!!! mods are soon to be a thing of the past. car counts? they are down. why, cars like mine sitting, 4 to 5 people not going and paying 35 dollars for a pit pass, food, exc. track owners better take control of this or bye bye mods, then tracks. j.m.o.!

[indyboywilliam]

where you from dirtmod#8? Run a crate class???

[sirleafalot]

if crate is the only option then we will change classes or get out. suspension and tires are what really needs to change here.

[indyboywilliam]

were racing crate class and having fun

[SpringMan]

Davenport had close to 40 last Friday, 4 full heats, 2 B-mains, and I think they started 22 cars. No big payout, just 1st week of points racing.

[indyboywilliam]

I think if tracks would pay crate mods around $400-$600 they would get more cars than they could support just take a regular mod and put in a crate motor and police them .. and on a Hard Tire..... jmo

[MotoMatt]

Oh, you mean run IMCA...it's funny but it's actually working in central Iowa. Hardcore open motor guys have switched to the crate motors. Not all, but enough. And you can't beat the reliability of them. Davenport, mentioned above, is IMCA, so there's that going on in the eastern part of the state too.

[sirleafalot]

Oh, you mean run IMCA...it's funny but it's actually working in central Iowa. Hardcore open motor guys have switched to the crate motors. Not all, but enough. And you can't beat the reliability of them. Davenport, mentioned above, is IMCA, so there's that going on in the eastern part of the state too. the IMCA deal is fine, because at least the crate engine is an option. The Bmod deal with UMP is a forced crate deal, making the weight deal such that you have no choice but to run a crate with every year adding more weight. At least with IMCA its your choice, and they are on a hard tire too. bring it on.

[indyboywilliam]

my opinion would be run any suspension ... 365 cubic inch or smaller on 2barrell ( No Roller Cam) or crate on 4barrell run them on Hoosier A-40 or a G60 Tire... and let them race

[bob75]

There ya go

[kidrock]

Like I said it won't be long if they can get all tracks on the same set of rules and a decent payout the B- Mods will out number the A-Mods

[kidrock]

my opinion would be run any suspension ... 365 cubic inch or smaller on 2barrell ( No Roller Cam) or crate on 4barrell run them on Hoosier A-40 or a G60 Tire... and let them race

What about a shock rule yea or ney?

[wadegarrett]

shock rule is needed.. Whats wrong with the current IMCA rules ? no roller cams, chip rule and hard tire and a break for running crates. This would allow current cars to run with QCs and keep cost down. Only issue would be no alluminum heads but short of that decent rules that would allow the current cars. Seems to work good in a lot of places. What I can see is the UMP is not helping and current plan is not working, the car counts speak to this.

[powerslide]

1. Rules that limit HP only cause those with money to spend it to get around them.
2. Two barrels(no, see #1)
3. How much more does a 3.75 stroke crank cost vs and 3.48 stroke? CI limiting is HP limiting and when you start limiting HP the guys who spend money on the dyno are going to dominate cause they found that last 20hp(see 1).

I'm not in UMP country but guys we have 3 mod classes at 1 of our local tracks this is bad all around promoter has 3 payouts and the class is cut up. 10 IMCA cars, 10 USRA cars and 15-20 Southern/northern sportmods(they run together) along with the other 2 full body classes and whatever else shenanigans they are running that night.

[wadegarrett]

I have heard this rules that limit HP makes things worse theory before. What I do know is that the current situation with UMP and no rules is NOT working at all. There needs to be something in place. A hard tire would be a good place to start. The current alphabet soup of A, versus D depending on where you are racing is not helping things either. IMCA is not limiting HP other than a chip and steel heads and no roller cam, pretty simple rules. Dudes with the bucks are going to spend them no matter what. The key is to make the rules so that all at least feel as though they have a fair shot and can show up and compete without breaking the bank, so that cars arent sitting at home. In UMP land right now that is NOT the case...30k motor and out of control costs and tire prices that are high and ZERO tech.
1. Rules that limit HP only cause those with money to spend it to get around them. 2. Two barrels(no, see #1) 3. How much more does a 3.75 stroke crank cost vs and 3.48 stroke? CI limiting is HP limiting and when you start limiting HP the guys who spend money on the dyno are going to dominate cause they found that last 20hp(see 1). I'm not in UMP country but guys we have 3 mod classes at 1 of our local tracks this is bad all around promoter has 3 payouts and the class is cut up. 10 IMCA cars, 10 USRA cars and 15-20 Southern/northern sportmods(they run together) along with the other 2 full body classes and whatever else shenanigans they are running that night.

[z40chief]

What about a shock rule yea or ney?

Last time I read the joke of UMP rules, there was a claim rule on shocks. Quit reading them a few years ago, so they may have changed.

[modracr41]

As a Mod Fan, I guess I am a little concerned about the low car counts at some of the tracks we travel to throughout the season. These are the number of Mods that were listed in the Features from this last weekends results:

Friday - May 1
Fayette County - 10
Farmer City - 17
Vermilion County - ? (cannot find results anywhere, but FB posts indicate low count)

Saturday - May 2
Charleston - 11
Macon - 11
Route 45 - 11 (This was a $1,500 to win special)
Fairbury - 20

I am hopeful that this is just an early season trend and the counts get better for all. There are a lot more Mods out there than LM's and my hope is that they remain a stronghold for these tracks.

Say it ain't so!! I've been predicting this for a few years now and no one wants to hear it. This happened almost 10 years ago now in Texas and it's coming due to racers pricing themselves out. In the Houston area, 10 years ago there were 6 tracks that ran UMP modifieds as the headline show on a weekly basis. Now, there aren't ANY! Most of the A-mod drivers now run Southern Sport mods if they run at all. 1 track, Willis Tx, now runs IMCA sanctioned in an attempt to try to salvage the class. We'll see how that goes, but if UMP doesn't do something, Driggers and Co will be sitting home trying to figure out what to do each weekend because it won't be racing.

[hygty]

I know what you guys are saying but car counts are down in most very classexcept maybe late models where its stable as far as the mods put them on three link and h's all the way around and I would make the ct 525 an option

[indyboywilliam]

What about a shock rule yea or ney?

I say OIL SHOCK ONLY ... With a Claim on shocks

[wadegarrett]

Shocks are a decent start, but to save the class you need Hard cheaper tireSome sort of engine rules, even minor like no roller camsActual techPossibly rules limiting suspension

[powerslide]

All shocks have oil... I think you are saying no monotubes?

No bulbs is probably the only thing that's easy to tech. And we all know they don't tech what they have so why add another...

[indyboywilliam]

No gas shocks.... No adjustable shocks ....

[AnothaBenchRacer]

I thought the off-season b!tching and moaning was over...?

[pig tracker]

I don't have dog in this fight, but, it sure seems to me if you just got away from the Hoosier tires and go to AR's the rest would fall in order. We run USRA and the big motors/high dollar motors really don't have an advantage. I have a modest 350 stroked to 396(about $3000) and they don't pull me coming out of corners. My biggest problem is getting a real good setup for the corners where I can hammer down coming out. We also have a 8000 chip rule and is enforced. Maybe the whole problem is rules not being enforced. Probably get bashed for this but..........

[indyboywilliam]

Hard tires would be a very good fix among other things>>> but that would be for sure a good start

[hygty]

I don't have dog in this fight, but, it sure seems to me if you just got away from the Hoosier tires and go to AR's the rest would fall in order. We run USRA and the big motors/high dollar motors really don't have an advantage. I have a modest 350 stroked to 396(about $3000) and they don't pull me coming out of corners. My biggest problem is getting a real good setup for the corners where I can hammer down coming out. We also have a 8000 chip rule and is enforced. Maybe the whole problem is rules not being enforced. Probably get bashed for this but..........if it is not in the rule book it can't be enforced, do you really need a 30k motor for a 1/5 mile or a 1/4

[rustymod]

if it is not in the rule book it can't be enforced, do you really need a 30k motor for a 1/5 mile or a 1/4

This is the trouble. Usra would be the right direction. The car counts speak volumes. Ump needs to go.

[backspace]

I have been a follower of races for 58 years. I have seen many things come and go,,mostly go. I think that if UMP is not going to do anything,,maybe the promoters need to get together and come up with some one to manufacture some restrictor plates for a mod class. Let me explain before you go off on a tangent,,,when you show up at the track,,trade your drivers license for a track issued plate,,this plate can have a tab on the side of it that can be seen when looking under hood by tech guy,,,now that's another story,,tech guy,,,when you are done with the nights program,,take your plate back to official and trade for your license,,The official will have a "go-no go gauge" to check the plate to see if you have been altering it,,Then you can compete against these high dollar air breathing monsters with no cost to the racer...This class is in a die mode as we talk,,,car counts continue to diminish,,,Track promoters need to take a stand now because the more you wait on UMP,,the more cars will not come....Just sayin'

[pig tracker]

I'm not so sure the promoters aren't in cahoots with ump. They don't seem to care what is going on. That of course does not include all promoter, but most. I think the only way to change this is thru the drivers and car owners. Boycott these races. Race another series or simple take the year off and work on your cars, trailers, equipment, haulers, stocking parts, or whatever. I personally would hate to miss a year, but it sure seems that there are many, many drivers that are unhappy with the way things are now. This is suppose to be a fun hobby and we all know we can't really make money doing this, so why put up with being unhappy doing something we all love? It just might only take a few months till the promoters see the light and change series.

[kidrock]

I thought the off-season b!tching and moaning was over...?

I don't see it has bitching and moaning but, guys seeing the class dwindling at a fast pace and putting their 2 cents in on what they think might help the class. Yes things can stay the same but, it won't be long and their will be more B-Mods then A-Mods. I honestly think if the B-Mods could all be on the same rules it would help that class as well but, for whatever reason different tracks have different rules and that doesn't make a much sense in my opinion but, my opinion doesn't count.

[kidrock]

I don't have dog in this fight, but, it sure seems to me if you just got away from the Hoosier tires and go to AR's the rest would fall in order. We run USRA and the big motors/high dollar motors really don't have an advantage. I have a modest 350 stroked to 396(about $3000) and they don't pull me coming out of corners. My biggest problem is getting a real good setup for the corners where I can hammer down coming out. We also have a 8000 chip rule and is enforced. Maybe the whole problem is rules not being enforced. Probably get bashed for this but..........

No reason to bash you for your comment your just giving your honest opinion and what you said makes a lot of sense and yes if you have rules they have to be enforced.

[kidrock]

No gas shocks.... No adjustable shocks ....


Hard tires would be a very good fix among other things>>> but that would be for sure a good start


Yes a very good start on both

[kidrock]

I'm not so sure the promoters aren't in cahoots with ump. They don't seem to care what is going on. That of course does not include all promoter, but most. I think the only way to change this is thru the drivers and car owners. Boycott these races. Race another series or simple take the year off and work on your cars, trailers, equipment, haulers, stocking parts, or whatever. I personally would hate to miss a year, but it sure seems that there are many, many drivers that are unhappy with the way things are now. This is suppose to be a fun hobby and we all know we can't really make money doing this, so why put up with being unhappy doing something we all love? It just might only take a few months till the promoters see the light and change series.

Its like a double edge sword. I know some promoters that want to drop UMP but, the problem is there are those racers that want to run for UMP points so, the promoters are afraid they will loose those cars to tracks that stay UMP. In my opinion the promoters will step up to the plate very soon if they want to see the class survive because, they can see the decline in the car counts. Heck who knows they might not have any choice but, to drop the class like they have the Super Late Models.

[hygty]

ALL THIS B@tching certainly doesn't help both in car counts or crowds changing the rules doesn't help either think about that one the sportsman and street stocks re about dead because of joining UMP or any other sanction that their rules are different that what they had before , its the economy in many others years ago as fan I would 3 maybe 4 nights a wwwk now I am lucky to hit 1 betcha many a racer is in the same but much bigger boat here you want change everyone on 3 link with ct525 nothing else

[wadegarrett]

ALL THIS B@tching certainly doesn't help both in car counts or crowds changing the rules doesn't help either think about that one the sportsman and street stocks re about dead because of joining UMP or any other sanction that their rules are different that what they had before , its the economy in many others years ago as fan I would 3 maybe 4 nights a wwwk now I am lucky to hit 1 betcha many a racer is in the same but much bigger boat here you want change everyone on 3 link with ct525 nothing elseThe economy excuse has been mentioned a lot, and even if that's true it's even more the reason ump needs to go. Ump bmod rules suck, they are forcing everyone to crates and will not enforce any rules no different than any other class. If the bitching does not help, then what's the better plan, cause I can tell you saying nothing and staying with ump is not working. Promoters need to wake up and go with usra or another idea that will help

[hygty]

THE economy is not an excuse its a fact along with with how the population is going in the country do you think many minorities or illegals go to the races or would start a team explain ,some teams have moved up or down depending on finances , why would teams build car when at some tracks they may only race 5 times a year, if usra was great just any other sanction we would n't have a discussion every track would go it

[kidrock]

I'm kind of curious as to why some want to called it bitching and complaining. When in fact some are just voicing their concerns. The economy does play a part in it but, hence why things are going to have to change or this class will not survive for the most part. Yes there might be some tracks where they keep running A-Mods but, some might replace them with B-Mods. Just my 2 cents which I realize isn't worth the 2 cents lol.

[hygty]

then tell me why streets are down sportsman are gone and 4cyls are down its the economy plain and simple blame the idiots in dc and lets make sure the borders are open that will willreally bring the economy and racing back NOT

[Pops15]

UMP has run it's course as a weekly sanction. Let them take their supers and run the SN, but for weekly racing they have to go.

Promoters need to go with a new sanctioning body or start their own. They know this, but they know that the racers and other promoters will need to be on board. That's the difficult part.

The restrictor plate, tire and shock ideas all have merit. If they fix the mod rules there won't be a need for a b-mod class unless they use the b-mods to replace the street stocks.

[kidrock]

UMP has run it's course as a weekly sanction. Let them take their supers and run the SN, but for weekly racing they have to go.

Promoters need to go with a new sanctioning body or start their own. They know this, but they know that the racers and other promoters will need to be on board. That's the difficult part.

The restrictor plate, tire and shock ideas all have merit. If they fix the mod rules there won't be a need for a b-mod class unless they use the b-mods to replace the street stocks.

And common sense prevails

[kidrock]

That's why my brother and I sold everything lol.

[rustymod]

Even IF the car counts are down in every class its even more the reason a change needs to be made. What do all these things have in common ? The answer is ump. Blame the economy but less money requires a sanction that can navigate its way thru this kind of situation and its not ump.

[rustymod]

I remember back in the 90s certain tracks were getting 5 late models and 15 mods what sanction was it

Does not matter and don't care what I know for sure is the current sanction ump is not doing anything to help the situation and they need to replaced with someone that will bring in a hard tire at least.

[Baddboy1]

I remember back in the 90s certain tracks were getting 5 late models and 15 mods what sanction was it

I remember having so many cars that we had to race Saturday and on Wednesday. Gas was a dollar a gallon.What does that have to do with today.?

[Baddboy1]

in the 90s it was UMP also and it survived gas gas was that high a buck a gallon try 27 cents a gallons and a track in everyones back yard literally , some people would hate UMP hate went to american racers and teched every car every night they just hate UMP guess what all sanctions are hurting , there arew too many classes period not UMP but racing in general
And now UMP has all but killed the Modified and Street stock division.OUTSTANDING job! IMCA is gaining cars as is USMTS. Keep trying to defend UMP but after Bob died,so did UMP.It is nothing but a money eating machine looking out for itself.

[kidrock]

It is nothing but a money eating machine looking out for itself. if the classes are dieng how is UMP or any other sanction benefiting by that explain that

Sorry Lite-inn but, like Pops said UMP has run its course. You can keep making excuse for them but no one is buying it anymore. It's time for them to go. All it's going to take is a couple of tracks to say good bye and it will be over.

[Crash 4]

UMP has run it's course as a weekly sanction. Let them take their supers and run the SN, but for weekly racing they have to go.

Promoters need to go with a new sanctioning body or start their own. They know this, but they know that the racers and other promoters will need to be on board. That's the difficult part.

The restrictor plate, tire and shock ideas all have merit. If they fix the mod rules there won't be a need for a b-mod class unless they use the b-mods to replace the street stocks.

Here's the problem for promoters, as I see it. I honestly think some would like to get away from UMP, but are afraid of losing their SN date, the one night a year that they might actually make some money. Until a different sanction comes up with something along the lines of the SN series, I don't see them getting away from UMP, unless they all go down together, which could happen the way they're headed now.

[wadegarrett]

all sanction have run there course back in the day when no sanctions where around you had tracks and car all over the place if you are saying ump why because no tech well guess who's fault is that its the tracks fault ,how many officals do you think a sanction has it doesn't matter what sanction if the tracks want to survive they need to tech or the sanctioning need t to pull their membership which mean no sanction races of any kind but remember when farmer city tried that stunt weknow how that worked out didn't weump must go. FC had no plan. Had usra come in at start and got things going at more than one track. All would've worked, better tire a sanction that's growing. Ump is doing nothing for the class but collecting tire fees from Hoosier till the class diesand btw lack of tech is the track and ump fault, ump has only body rules and those only get teched big shows, bottom line, ump has no rules and no tech

[Crash 4]

It is nothing but a money eating machine looking out for itself. if the classes are dieng how is UMP or any other sanction benefiting by that explain that

UMP/Hoosier are benefiting by selling overpriced junk tires and requiring people to use them, pretty simple really. UMP gets tire money from Hoosier for every tire sold, the quicker the tires wear out, the more they sell, the more money they both make. All is good until you reach a tipping point, at which time racers start quitting, selling out, or just sitting out, hoping something is done with racing to make it more affordable. There are more problems than tires, but that would be a good starting point. If I were a promoter, this latest debacle of the A40S tire would convince me to tell UMP/Hoosier to take a hike.

[kidrock]

all sanction have run there course back in the day when no sanctions where around you had tracks and car all over the place if you are saying ump why because no tech well guess who's fault is that its the tracks fault ,how many officals do you think a sanction has it doesn't matter what sanction if the tracks want to survive they need to tech or the sanctioning need t to pull their membership which mean no sanction races of any kind but remember when farmer city tried that stunt weknow how that worked out didn't we

As far as tech goes that should be a joint effort between the sanctioning body and the tracks. The tracks should do tech and enforce the rules but, the sanctioning body should have their own techs that go out to the tracks and tech as well. Now I not saying be at each and every track every week but, they should go out randomly and tech.

Like I said it's only going to take a couple of tracks to drop UMP and in my opinion I believe you will see more of them over the next few years drop them. Like I said in past post there were a couple that came really close to doing it this year. All they need is a good sponsor or two so, they can have a pretty decent point fund at the end of the year and good bye UMP. As far as the Summer National goes it's a gamble if your going to make money or not some years you might make a little and some years your going to lose a lot and some you might break even. I know of a promoter who said if it meant losing the SN date but, yet he had a good weekly program with good car count and fans to support it he would gladly take that date off his schedule.

[kidrock]

Here's the problem for promoters, as I see it. I honestly think some would like to get away from UMP, but are afraid of losing their SN date, the one night a year that they might actually make some money. Until a different sanction comes up with something along the lines of the SN series, I don't see them getting away from UMP, unless they all go down together, which could happen the way they're headed now.

The problem is just because they have SN date does not mean they make money because sometimes they lose money so that might not be that big of a deal to some.

[hygty]

UMP/Hoosier are benefiting by selling overpriced junk tires and requiring people to use them, pretty simple really. UMP gets tire money from Hoosier for every tire sold, the quicker the tires wear out, the more they sell, the more money they both make. All is good until you reach a tipping point, at which time racers start quitting, selling out, or just sitting out, hoping something is done with racing to make it more affordable. There are more problems than tires, but that would be a good starting point. If I were a promoter, this latest debacle of the A40S tire would convince me to tell UMP/Hoosier to take a hike.all sanction get their money from the tire companies how do you think they survive as far as the racer they have to race smarter not spend tires every week

[kidrock]

why drop them if the track won't do their job and promotors dream alot

I guess my question to you is what is the track suppose to do?

Give me a reason why you wouldn't drop them?

[hygty]

read the rule book and tech every car thats needs to be teched he11 even tech the water truck don't depend on the sanctioning body if a team is wrong with tires lets say park them weight rule park them it should matter who they are like sam would I don't care if you are billy moyer or mike hammerlee they both get teched

[Crash 4]

all sanction get their money from the tire companies how do you think they survive as far as the racer they have to race smarter not spend tires every week

I know you're just wanting to argue Litey, but I'll respond anyhow. Hoosier, if they wanted to, could make a tire that lasts and wears better, but they choose not to. I guess they have decided to sell more tires to the fewer that can afford to race, rather than sell many more harder tires to more racers if there were more that could afford to race. Not a good business plan in my opinion. Bad for racing all around. Their recent attempt of the A40S tire was a deliberate poke to the eye to the promoters that decided to discontinue use of the D40. I guess they decided if they couldn't sell D40's any longer, they would make the replacement of the A40 softer and quicker wearing than the old D40's.

As far as racers buying tires, they have to if they want to be competitive, even the street stocks are buying tires weekly, but it doesn't have to be that way. One compound affordable hard tire would help all around and probably get more racers back to the track. The Southwest Speed tire was mentioned in a previous post, and looks like a better option.

[rustymod]

read the rule book and tech every car thats needs to be teched he11 even tech the water truck don't depend on the sanctioning body if a team is wrong with tires lets say park them weight rule park them it should matter who they are like sam would I don't care if you are billy moyer or mike hammerlee they both get teched

Great, so your plan is for the class to die and stay with ump. No thanks. Even going usra would drop tire cost about 40 bucks each. This is good thing for all a mods. Staying with ump is a fools move.

One more thing yes all sanctions make money on tires but why does ump have to be some (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) greedy. Imca and usra both, charge 40 bucks less a tire and make plenty of cash.

Ump just screwing the racers with overpriced garbage tires

[Baddboy1]

I know you're just wanting to argue Litey,

Can't be Litey the words are spelled correctly and proper grammar is used.But many believe it is a "banned" person making another screen name.Kind of twisted deal.

[kidrock]

Litey I'm all for teaching every car no matter who it is and yes like I said it should be a joint effort between the tracks and the sanction but, that's only part of the problem. You can keep sticking up for UMP and things can stay the same and one your going to wake up and only have a few tracks that you can go to but, like I said before I have no horse in this race no more so, for me it's not a problem but, for the guys that are still in it I feel bad for them. And yes just because I don't have horse in the race doesn't mean I can't have an opinion.

[kidrock]

Can't be Litey the words are spelled correctly and proper grammar is used.But many believe it is a "banned" person making another screen name.Kind of twisted deal.

Your right lol,

[hygty]

Great, so your plan is for the class to die and stay with ump. No thanks. Even going usra would drop tire cost about 40 bucks each. This is good thing for all a mods. Staying with ump is a fools move.One more thing yes all sanctions make money on tires but why does ump have to be some (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) greedy. Imca and usra both, charge 40 bucks less a tire and make plenty of cash. Ump just screwing the racers with overpriced garbage tireswhat about the guys that have a warehouse full of tires if IMCA AND USRA WAS SO GREAT WHY AREN'T TALKING TO THE TRACKS RIGHT NOW TO CHANGE THATS NOT UMPS FAULT FOR THE CHARGE ITS HOOSIERS DID YOU EVER THINK THEY MAY COST MORE TO BUILD

[hygty]

litey i'm all for teaching every car no matter who it is and yes like i said it should be a joint effort between the tracks and the sanction but, that's only part of the problem. You can keep sticking up for ump and things can stay the same and one your going to wake up and only have a few tracks that you can go to but, like i said before i have no horse in this race no more so, for me it's not a problem but, for the guys that are still in it i feel bad for them. And yes just because i don't have horse in the race doesn't mean i can't have an opinion.that is teching teacher

[hygty]

I know acouple racers both mods and lates thatmostly buy used tires been doing it for years and finish in the top 20 in points year after year

[hygty]

ask a sprint car how their tires are and how many they get out of them but they don't complain

[hygty]

http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?343726-Plymouth-(IN)-Speedway-FULL-RESULTS-65-Todd-Sherman-gets-UMP-Modified-win-amp-MORE d@mn UMP wait not all classes areUMP

[wadegarrett]

what about the guys that have a warehouse full of tires if IMCA AND USRA WAS SO GREAT WHY AREN'T TALKING TO THE TRACKS RIGHT NOW TO CHANGE THATS NOT UMPS FAULT FOR THE CHARGE ITS HOOSIERS DID YOU EVER THINK THEY MAY COST MORE TO BUILD No need to yell Lite Inn, lol. I think you may want to recheck things a bit. I was at the usra booth at a recent event, and yes they are talking to tracks are trying to move this way, cant speak for imca, too much of an engine change anyway for most. your defense of ump wont hold water the a40s disaster showed the truth, I know more than one racer that already mounted these ckunkers and are stuck with them. Not to mention suppliers that bought them and had to return them You can keep defending UMP but its a waste of time everyone else sees exactly whats going on. Car counts are down and a switch by next next wont hurt anyone it fact it will only save money in the long run.

[rustymod]

what about the guys that have a warehouse full of tires if IMCA AND USRA WAS SO GREAT WHY AREN'T TALKING TO THE TRACKS RIGHT NOW TO CHANGE THATS NOT UMPS FAULT FOR THE CHARGE ITS HOOSIERS DID YOU EVER THINK THEY MAY COST MORE TO BUILD

Warehouse of tires dream on. I hope no one is stuck with a boat load of those useless A40s tires that they had to take back. Dont cry about Hoosier tires cost please them and UMP are laughing all the way to the back and they still are.
So please explain your plan to fix the problem is to have everyone stay with ump...and exactly what is ump doing to help the amod class other that trying to screw us all with a40s tire ?

UMP and Sam are cluelss and they are going down, keep supporting your relative if you must but they are not helping anyone except there own bank accounts, a switch ANY other sanction would be an upgrade.

[team jarvis]

time to alert the moderator again, there WAS a good discussion on how to improve the class with car counts down, and the now its getting derailed.

[hygty]

being derailed or telling the real story for instance there are probably at 30 drivers in mods that move either crates or supers you never fiqured that out did you USRA couldn't handle that many tracks could they

[rustymod]

being derailed or telling the real story for instance there are probably at 30 drivers in mods that move either crates or supers you never fiqured that out did you USRA couldn't handle that many tracks could they

as always lite inn you are back on the board and showing that you do not have a clue and the same old fact is you dont spend any money on this class or any other so this is of no concern for you. Please go back to STL racing dirthound and continue to ruin that board, this one was much improved since you were gone.
Ump needs to go they are doing nothing but collecting money and watching it all happen.

[hygty]

really you don't have a clue car count going down yes guys moving up unlike USRA which means the mods is there top class in UMP which does have class to move to UMP ALLOWS THE CT525 IN LATES LUCAS MLRA EVEN WOO doesn't

[hygty]

d@mn ump check the results from boone it must umps fault

[kidrock]

I dont think anyone can say everything about UMP is bad but to think they are a good sanctioning body I just don't see it but, hey I can't see very well at my age. I think tracks could do better without UMP in my opinion. If they are afraid of a SN date they should have their own big race with the same purse and you don't have to pay the sanction fee to have it. It's a win win for the track. it is time for UMP to to go that's for sure. If I ran a track today I would go independent and see what happens. With the way so many are pissed at UMP I bet it would work. Get the guys together to come up with a set of rules enforce the rules and I would bet you could get 20 to 25 cars every week.

[kidrock]

farmer city comes to mind ooops


Yep and a totally different situation back then and a lot has changed since then. I will admit it's going to get tougher and tougher to go independent as the years go by because, the car count is dwindling so fast you might not have enough cars to go around to do it but, in my opinion if the pay was right and you had a decent point fund at the end of the year and the rules were cost saving rules with a good tire rule you just might be surprised of the car count.

[wadegarrett]

I dont think anyone can say everything about UMP is bad but to think they are a good sanctioning body I just don't see it but, hey I can't see very well at my age. I think tracks could do better without UMP in my opinion. If they are afraid of a SN date they should have their own big race with the same purse and you don't have to pay the sanction fee to have it. It's a win win for the track. it is time for UMP to to go that's for sure. If I ran a track today I would go independent and see what happens. With the way so many are pissed at UMP I bet it would work. Get the guys together to come up with a set of rules enforce the rules and I would bet you could get 20 to 25 cars every week. ump is not entirely horrible, but in this situation they are not making the right call or really any call at all other that to stay with the current setup. This means nothing will improve people will only leave racing or switch classes which is not so good. Seen this many times some get out and dont come back and some switch classes. ump is hell bent to stay with the same overpriced tire and that alone is not good. With the current tire options and the over priced engine options to compete its a never ending circle of higher costs and lower car counts. This is why a new sanction with new ideas could and would help. usra is a good option better tire cheaper cost and still can use the same ump engines that most have now. imca is not an option as there would be too many engine concerns. To stay with ump is not a good idea, they are already screwing up the bmods by forcing everyone into crates and still pushing everyone in the class to use the same overpriced tires. if you dont believe it and you want more proof go talk to ANYONE that used to run a mod in the south where ump is no longer around and neither are the amods.

[DirtDirtCrazy]

I started this thread out of concern for the Open Wheel Mod Division. There is a lot of good feedback here. Thanks to all who have spoken up. I see a lot of info about Tires and Sanctioning bodies. But let's face it, racing is expensive no matter what sanctioning body you are involved with. I really think that change is always slower than it should be to make things better. However, in the meantime, what do we do to keep this division going? Here is an idea that I feel strongly about and am beginning to see more of:

TRACK PROMOTERS MUST WORK TOGETHER! For instance, if you are a Track that is in close to Fairbury, why would you try to run a show on the weekend of the PRAIRIE DIRT CLASSIC? If you look at Farmer City's schedule you will see that they have chosen to take that weekend off and even have the PDC on their schedule as the reason. Also you will see that some tracks are working together to promote a joint point fund.

Another option: If I was a track promoter and I knew that one of my competitors was running a Mod Special on a certain weekend, I would schedule a Street Stock, or Pro Crate Special that same night and not have Mods that weekend. That way you are not competing for Mod car count and yet might be able to attract a good count for the special you are running.

Another option: Tri-State Speedway in Haubstadt only runs every other weekend. However, they usually have some kind of special at each show. As far as I can tell they have been successful with this format for many years and normally get good car counts at there shows.

The bottom line is Promoters and Promotion. It can be done with a little more communication amongst Promoters, Drivers, and even Fans.

[kidrock]

modifeds yes late models no look at the results in lates you may see named that you thought drove mods isn't tthat what you want for racers to move up to the higher class and season is still early has kkk even had a race yet


Not quite sure what you're getting at here other then guys moving up. Yes there no reason guys can't move up unless the cost is so much they can't afford it.

[wadegarrett]

Not all can or will move up, as stated on here before racers will either move up or down or get out unless changes are made to preserve the class. Ump is not willing to make the right kind of changes

[kidrock]

that is where many of your mod drivers are gustin, stormy scott scottie weber cody conner mike spataloa gilpin kent robinson to name just a few

Yes I understand that part and that's been going on since racing started. Guys move up but, you need guys from the lower classes to move to the mod class and yes there are a few but, not as many as is needed. I guess we will have to sit back and see where we stand in a couple of years if no one wants to make some changes. Like I said I'm not going to give all the blame to UMP but, they take some responsibility in this. They can't be happy to see what use to be 25 to 30 mods down to 15 to 18 mods and in some cases 10 to 12.

[indyboywilliam]

yes i understand that part and that's been going on since racing started. Guys move up but, you need guys from the lower classes to move to the mod class and yes there are a few but, not as many as is needed. I guess we will have to sit back and see where we stand in a couple of years if no one wants to make some changes. Like i said i'm not going to give all the blame to ump but, they take some responsibility in this. They can't be happy to see what use to be 25 to 30 mods down to 15 to 18 mods and in some cases 10 to 12.

very well said..........something needs to change.......... And if ump dont make it happen track owners need to get together and take matters into there own hands and do it

[kidrock]

very well said..........something needs to change.......... And if ump dont make it happen track owners need to get together and take matters into there own hands and do it

Where's the like button!!!!

[Pops15]

I've been around racing 52 years. As I see it the sport has two major problems.

1. Not enough fans in the stands.
2. Not enough cars in the pits.

It will be impossible to fix the attendance problem without fixing the car count problem.
Racing costs too much. SLM cost too much, mods cost too much, SS cost too much. In all the time I've been around racing I haven't heard a single racer say they quit because it didn't cost enough.

If weekly racing is going to survive, the cost to compete has to be less. Anyone that thinks otherwise is living in a dream world.

Can UMP fix the car count problem? Of course they could.....but they won't. Promoters know that. Some have talked publicly about leaving UMP, and others have privately. It's only a matter of time until a few leave UMP. Once they do, others will join them. Nearly all of the IL promoters talk to each other. Some of them even meet during the off season. It's not just a matter of survival for the modified class, it's a matter of survival for the tracks. In my opinion it's not a matter of IF the tracks leave, but a matter of WHEN they leave UMP.

UMP started with 14 tracks in 1984. It was tough to find more than three tracks with the same LM rules back then. When the promoters that are dissatisfied with UMP leave, and they will leave UMP, they'll have an advantage that UMP didn't have in 84. They've already got uniform rules for the mods. They'll just need to make a few changes. Tires for sure. They could (and likely would) still be Hoosiers. The restrictor plate idea is interesting. A shock rule would benefit the class but will likely run into opposition from some of the racers.

[sirleafalot]

very well said..........something needs to change.......... And if ump dont make it happen track owners need to get together and take matters into there own hands and do it agree, track owners are in this as well and own part of the concern. they need to step and tell ump and others of the issue certainly on tires where they have options.

[kidrock]

I've been around racing 52 years. As I see it the sport has two major problems.

1. Not enough fans in the stands.
2. Not enough cars in the pits.

It will be impossible to fix the attendance problem without fixing the car count problem.
Racing costs too much. SLM cost too much, mods cost too much, SS cost too much. In all the time I've been around racing I haven't heard a single racer say they quit because it didn't cost enough.

If weekly racing is going to survive, the cost to compete has to be less. Anyone that thinks otherwise is living in a dream world.

Can UMP fix the car count problem? Of course they could.....but they won't. Promoters know that. Some have talked publicly about leaving UMP, and others have privately. It's only a matter of time until a few leave UMP. Once they do, others will join them. Nearly all of the IL promoters talk to each other. Some of them even meet during the off season. It's not just a matter of survival for the modified class, it's a matter of survival for the tracks. In my opinion it's not a matter of IF the tracks leave, but a matter of WHEN they leave UMP.

UMP started with 14 tracks in 1984. It was tough to find more than three tracks with the same LM rules back then. When the promoters that are dissatisfied with UMP leave, and they will leave UMP, they'll have an advantage that UMP didn't have in 84. They've already got uniform rules for the mods. They'll just need to make a few changes. Tires for sure. They could (and likely would) still be Hoosiers. The restrictor plate idea is interesting. A shock rule would benefit the class but will likely run into opposition from some of the racers.


Yes there have been a few that have talked about leaving UMP and I believe you might see it next year. And yes your right for the most part the rules are in place and just a little tweaking of the rules is all that's needed.
Very well said Pops.

[DirtDirtCrazy]

So here is the deal; I started this thread to basically discuss the welfare of Central Illinois Dirt Tracks and particularly the Modified Division. Many have replied to the thread and I thank you all for that.

Based on the responses, a good deal of what it will take to deal with the Car Count issue will require a strong cooperation between UMP, Track Promoters, and of course MODIFIED DRIVERS and their teams. I am hopeful that these three parties can work closely in the near future to make A-Mod Racing healthy again.

But there is a fourth element that cannot be ignored. FANS!!!! Give them a good racing product and they will come!

[hygty]

that is the main factor without fans the tracks will have a hard time surviving . doesn't help when you NASCAR on sat night or friday night

[kidrock]

that is the main factor without fans the tracks will have a hard time surviving . doesn't help when you NASCAR on sat night or friday night


According to guys on here NASCAR is sucks and nobody watches it anymore do, no way can a NASCAR race hurt dirt track attendance.

[hygty]

well some fans like it but they probably like getting in the head with a brick lol

[wadegarrett]

According to guys on here NASCAR is sucks and nobody watches it anymore do, no way can a NASCAR race hurt dirt track attendance. all the excuses dont change the fact that ump/hoosier are charging 35 bucks a tire more than any other sanction. This is not helping the class. the a40s mess just shows that Hoosier and UMP did not do enough testing and were hoping the racers would live with it, tried to blame it on siping etc. not to mention this nonsense of only allowing Ds at some tracks. usra and imca have ONE tire.

[kidrock]

all the excuses dont change the fact that ump/hoosier are charging 35 bucks a tire more than any other sanction. This is not helping the class. the a40s mess just shows that Hoosier and UMP did not do enough testing and were hoping the racers would live with it, tried to blame it on siping etc. not to mention this nonsense of only allowing Ds at some tracks. usra and imca have ONE tire.

i agree with you.

[hygty]

all the excuses dont change the fact that ump/hoosier are charging 35 bucks a tire more than any other sanction. This is not helping the class. the a40s mess just shows that Hoosier and UMP did not do enough testing and were hoping the racers would live with it, tried to blame it on siping etc. not to mention this nonsense of only allowing Ds at some tracks. usra and imca have ONE tire. and your point is a team can strap new ones on all day long some tracks say the tire you start the night with is the tire you finish with

[modracr41]

and your point is a team can strap new ones on all day long some tracks say the tire you start the night with is the tire you finish with

That's not feasible for modified racing. You will always have the "have's" and the "have-not's" but to level the playing field to the point that "have-not's" aren't out-classed is the goal. New tires will outrun used tires 95% of the time, but you still have to drive the car, know how to set up the car, and how to take care of the tires so they're there at the end of the feature. Those things will win races when $$ won't. UMP changes rules without input from drivers, and more importantly doing some research and looking at what will make a difference. Taking the spoilers off will help on a long, momentum type track, but on a small 1/4 mile bullring track it won't make a difference. They need to look at restricting the high $$, high HP engines and a hard tire with little tread does help with this. Tech is also a huge part of this and for it to be successful it has to be done and enforced. Ask Tom Brady about rules enforcement. UMP would have dropped the minimum air pressure in the rules for all of the balls so what he did wasn't illegal any longer.

[rustymod]

That's not feasible for modified racing. You will always have the "have's" and the "have-not's" but to level the playing field to the point that "have-not's" aren't out-classed is the goal. New tires will outrun used tires 95% of the time, but you still have to drive the car, know how to set up the car, and how to take care of the tires so they're there at the end of the feature. Those things will win races when $$ won't. UMP changes rules without input from drivers, and more importantly doing some research and looking at what will make a difference. Taking the spoilers off will help on a long, momentum type track, but on a small 1/4 mile bullring track it won't make a difference. They need to look at restricting the high $$, high HP engines and a hard tire with little tread does help with this. Tech is also a huge part of this and for it to be successful it has to be done and enforced. Ask Tom Brady about rules enforcement. UMP would have dropped the minimum air pressure in the rules for all of the balls so what he did wasn't illegal any longer.

well said ump has shown this in the past look at the engine rules as soon as Kenny Wallace decides he wants to run a Toyota suddenly the ump engine rules say "other pushrod engine will be considered" in other words since our boy Kenny runs a toyota its now allowed.
I fully expect the ump made the a40s to wear sooner so them and hoosier could make more money now that many tracks do not allow the d. they got caught with the hand in the cookie jar. sure they fixed it after the fact, but its like putting the genie back in the bottle. ump needs to go and they need to take there tires with them. even going to amra would be an upgrade at this point, promoters need to wake up.

[napoleondynamite]

that is the main factor without fans the tracks will have a hard time surviving . doesn't help when you NASCAR on sat night or friday nightYou sound a lot like LITE-INN.............just an observation.

[MM90]

What are your UMP tires going for? We pay around $115 for our IMCA tires.

[sirleafalot]

What are your UMP tires going for? We pay around $115 for our IMCA tires. about 140 each. and they dont last as long as the IMCA or USMTS tires

[DirtDirtCrazy]

I'm not convinced that comparing a tire designed for an IMCA Mod versus a UMP Mod is a fair analysis. From what I can tell an IMCA Mod tops out around 400 hp whereas most UMP Mods are pumping out 600+ hp. When put to the ground I would expect tire wear to be different in these scenarios.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending or criticizing Hoosier. All I can tell you is that the last UMP Mod Race I watched was a few weeks back at Charleston Speedway; at least 5 cars logged 13.5 second laps during qualifying on the 3/8 mile track. What was remarkable was the amount of speed carried through the turns. No matter how you cut it, that kind of speed is going to wear on any tire.

[modracr41]

I'm not convinced that comparing a tire designed for an IMCA Mod versus a UMP Mod is a fair analysis. From what I can tell an IMCA Mod tops out around 400 hp whereas most UMP Mods are pumping out 600+ hp. When put to the ground I would expect tire wear to be different in these scenarios.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending or criticizing Hoosier. All I can tell you is that the last UMP Mod Race I watched was a few weeks back at Charleston Speedway; at least 5 cars logged 13.5 second laps during qualifying on the 3/8 mile track. What was remarkable was the amount of speed carried through the turns. No matter how you cut it, that kind of speed is going to wear on any tire.

You're a bit off. IMCA cars aren't down that much power to UMP cars, and USMTS cars are on par with them. BOTH run the G60 either KK704 AR, or Hoosier. Sitting back and trying to defend the 40 series tire by saying that it's designed to hook up the power is where you're thinking is flawed. The hard tire with little tread will minimize just how much power the car can put to the ground, thereby leveling the playing field and negating those 700-800hp UMP former 'cup engines everyone in UMP thinks they must have. An IMCA A-modified running on the same track will run maybe a full second slower than the UMP cars if that. From the grandstands, you can't tell the difference.

[$UMP$]

That's not feasible for modified racing. You will always have the "have's" and the "have-not's" but to level the playing field to the point that "have-not's" aren't out-classed is the goal. New tires will outrun used tires 95% of the time, but you still have to drive the car, know how to set up the car, and how to take care of the tires so they're there at the end of the feature. Those things will win races when $$ won't. UMP changes rules without input from drivers, and more importantly doing some research and looking at what will make a difference. Taking the spoilers off will help on a long, momentum type track, but on a small 1/4 mile bullring track it won't make a difference. They need to look at restricting the high $$, high HP engines and a hard tire with little tread does help with this. Tech is also a huge part of this and for it to be successful it has to be done and enforced. Ask Tom Brady about rules enforcement. UMP would have dropped the minimum air pressure in the rules for all of the balls so what he did wasn't illegal any longer.
Yawn!!!!!!!!!!

[team jarvis]

I'm not convinced that comparing a tire designed for an IMCA Mod versus a UMP Mod is a fair analysis. From what I can tell an IMCA Mod tops out around 400 hp whereas most UMP Mods are pumping out 600+ hp. When put to the ground I would expect tire wear to be different in these scenarios. Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending or criticizing Hoosier. All I can tell you is that the last UMP Mod Race I watched was a few weeks back at Charleston Speedway; at least 5 cars logged 13.5 second laps during qualifying on the 3/8 mile track. What was remarkable was the amount of speed carried through the turns. No matter how you cut it, that kind of speed is going to wear on any tire. LOL from what the STL mod guys are telling me you wont be running those speeds very long on the A40S. USMTS has the deal better tire and same HP.

[hygty]

That's not feasible for modified racing. You will always have the "have's" and the "have-not's" but to level the playing field to the point that "have-not's" aren't out-classed is the goal. New tires will outrun used tires 95% of the time, but you still have to drive the car, know how to set up the car, and how to take care of the tires so they're there at the end of the feature. Those things will win races when $$ won't. UMP changes rules without input from drivers, and more importantly doing some research and looking at what will make a difference. Taking the spoilers off will help on a long, momentum type track, but on a small 1/4 mile bullring track it won't make a difference. They need to look at restricting the high $$, high HP engines and a hard tire with little tread does help with this. Tech is also a huge part of this and for it to be successful it has to be done and enforced. Ask Tom Brady about rules enforcement. UMP would have dropped the minimum air pressure in the rules for all of the balls so what he did wasn't illegal any longer.that was plain stupid what they dd to Tom Brady did he take the aair out the balls hell no, besidesdidn't the other team use the same ball it was the NFLS fault like i said they should have it what ever tire you start the night thats the one you finish the night with a cuts down tires bought b most guys would start out on hards just to make the night

[hygty]

LOL from what the STL mod guys are telling me you wont be running those speeds very long on the A40S. USMTS has the deal better tire and same HP.yes the a40 s is gone so what most guys that win run h40s

[rustymod]

that was plain stupid what they dd to Tom Brady did he take the aair out the balls hell no, besidesdidn't the other team use the same ball it was the NFLS fault like i said they should have it what ever tire you start the night thats the one you finish the night with a cuts down tires bought b most guys would start out on hards just to make the night



so lite inn I can see you have learned zero from the short time you were banned on 4m, time to go back the moderator, its impossible to have a discussion on 4m without you insulting people etc and defending ump at every turn when they dont have a leg to stand on. not only that but the same old facts ring true in that you still dont buy any tires at all not one single tire. you have no financial interest in this. please take yourself back to stl racing dirthound we dont need you here. The board returned to a good place to discuss actual racing issues with actual people involved in the sport that have financial concerns that affect them that are spending there own money while you were gone. Please go back to stl racing and stay there.

[team jarvis]

yes the a40 s is gone so what most guys that win run h40s this is part of the issue within ump d, h, or a, too many tires and not all accepted at all tracks. you dont see this issue in other sanctions.

[indyboywilliam]

The issue is VERY SIMPLE ...... ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!!! Take the Money out....(BIG BUSINESS) Put them on HARD TIRES ONLY, RESTRICTED ENGINES, GIVE DECENT PAY TO DRIVERS...AND THE RACERS (that put the show on) This all Equals GOOD RACING and More Fans and Racers will show up.... Take the NATIONAL POINTS and STICK THEM! If anyone should be making money it should be the RACE TEAMS and TRACK OWNERS.... they put on the shows....and have all the expenses.... NOT ANY SANCTION BODYS

[MM90]

You put them on a hard tire, you won't have to worry about engine restrictions.

[indyboywilliam]

That is very true....................

[$UMP$]

The problem with the mods are too many are trying to race on a Burger King paycheck and refuse to move down to a class they actually can afford!

[indyboywilliam]

Well then maybe you should either quit Burger King or race a Hornet $UMP$ But maybe on the other hand you can find a race shop that takes LINK

[hygty]

I like burger king lol

[$UMP$]

Well then maybe you should either quit Burger King or race a Hornet $UMP$ But maybe on the other hand you can find a race shop that takes LINK

With any luck Burger King will sponsor your parade next year!

[team jarvis]

Its all fun and games but central IL is not in good shape with rate its going will have to choose to move or down, dont really see going LM, so maybe its B mods but dont care about the crate deal no thanks. At the rate we are going it will less than 10 cars weekly.

[hygty]

You hit the nail on the head too many classes

[kidrock]

The problem with the mods are too many are trying to race on a Burger King paycheck and refuse to move down to a class they actually can afford!

What if those guys that run on a burger budget as you say decide ok that's it I'm done. I wonder how many A-Mods would be left?

[blueracer11]

What if those guys that run on a burger budget as you say decide ok that's it I'm done. I wonder how many A-Mods would be left?

Come on guys, don't feed the bears. We all know that $UMP$ is full of hot air. Things were going great with no input from him, and no one answering when he posts. PLEASE, let's get back to discussing racing with real racers and ignore people like that. They will eventually get the hint and go away.

[wadegarrett]

What if those guys that run on a burger budget as you say decide ok that's it I'm done. I wonder how many A-Mods would be left? lol kidrock dont try to confuse things with facts lol. your post in dead on. Thats what so many dont see its real easy to come on here type a message and say if racers can cut it they can drop down in class or get out. Well apparently in Central IL, thats exactly what they are doing and car counts are down and thus people like myself are suggesting changes like harder tire in an attempt to preserve car counts and the class. The trouble is that the guys that are running at tracks with good car counts are still living in denial. They are playing " I cant see it from my house game " They wont realize there is a problem until the track the go to starts dropping car counts. Then at that point they will most likely drop down to B-Mods and start lobbying to open up the rules to allow more items in the Bmods. Sadly I have seen this pattern over and over. I for one will be mentioning the issues with UMP and the need to move to another sanction with a better tire option every time I go to the track and I encourage others to the same.

[dirtrace09]

There have been some excellent points made. I can tell you as a racer, a school teacher, a coach, business owner and a fan. The crowds are not there like they used to be. The cars are not there like they used to be. It is a problem that is bigger than can be simply overcome. Society has so many other options for our time, energy, and money that stuff like local racing is paying the cost. I see it in high school sports as well. Kids have so many options that they are limiting themselves or simply not going out for activities. We see it in the work effort of students in the classroom. Businesses see it in employee work ethic as well. Blame it on technology or simply the changing of the times. Something needs to be done creatively to keep people in the sport. I do not envy the position that promoters and track owners are in. They have a business to run and cash flow rules in business. There are also increased pressures from local government agencies and anti-racers to limit or shut down tracks. It also is a tough time for racers. The cost of everything rises yet payouts do not follow in most instances. It forces decisions to be made for themselves and their families. Often times that is to eliminate the hobbies. The lines of communication needs to be open for all entities involved to make this successful and sustainable.

[modracr41]

There have been some excellent points made. I can tell you as a racer, a school teacher, a coach, business owner and a fan. The crowds are not there like they used to be. The cars are not there like they used to be. It is a problem that is bigger than can be simply overcome. Society has so many other options for our time, energy, and money that stuff like local racing is paying the cost. I see it in high school sports as well. Kids have so many options that they are limiting themselves or simply not going out for activities. We see it in the work effort of students in the classroom. Businesses see it in employee work ethic as well. Blame it on technology or simply the changing of the times. Something needs to be done creatively to keep people in the sport. I do not envy the position that promoters and track owners are in. They have a business to run and cash flow rules in business. There are also increased pressures from local government agencies and anti-racers to limit or shut down tracks. It also is a tough time for racers. The cost of everything rises yet payouts do not follow in most instances. It forces decisions to be made for themselves and their families. Often times that is to eliminate the hobbies. The lines of communication needs to be open for all entities involved to make this successful and sustainable.

Well put Dirtrace09. I've predicted this for a while. I wouldn't be a bit surprised that in 20-30 years if there isn't ANY dirt racing as we know it. Life is cyclical. Back in the 50's until the early 2000's there were people who either lived during the early days of dirt track racing, or were children of those guys. Now, our children would rather play video games, or some other activity than participate in our type of racing. NASCRAP has a lot of fans, but it has also leveled off due to the commercialization of the sport. Our issue is to try to prolong the inevitable for as long as we can. In doing so, we need to realize what hurts our sport, and what would help prolong it. Expensive high HP engines, baby soft tires that hook up the power, promotors who don't tech anything, and the whole "run what you brung, it makes for better racing" mentality are all things that hurt the sport. I can't understand for the life of me why anyone who does actually spend their hard-earned money to race would protest rules that would make it less expensive. It's like saying, "I like this recliner, but do you have one more expensive? It can look exactly like this one, sit and feel exactly like this one, but must cost more because that means it must be better." It makes no sense.

[rustymod]

There have been some excellent points made. I can tell you as a racer, a school teacher, a coach, business owner and a fan. The crowds are not there like they used to be. The cars are not there like they used to be. It is a problem that is bigger than can be simply overcome. Society has so many other options for our time, energy, and money that stuff like local racing is paying the cost. I see it in high school sports as well. Kids have so many options that they are limiting themselves or simply not going out for activities. We see it in the work effort of students in the classroom. Businesses see it in employee work ethic as well. Blame it on technology or simply the changing of the times. Something needs to be done creatively to keep people in the sport. I do not envy the position that promoters and track owners are in. They have a business to run and cash flow rules in business. There are also increased pressures from local government agencies and anti-racers to limit or shut down tracks. It also is a tough time for racers. The cost of everything rises yet payouts do not follow in most instances. It forces decisions to be made for themselves and their families. Often times that is to eliminate the hobbies. The lines of communication needs to be open for all entities involved to make this successful and sustainable.

this is true, but it begs response" If all of this is true then its even the more reason to switch rules to a new sanction that cost less with cheaper tires etc to try and attract more racers ???

[kidrock]

lol kidrock dont try to confuse things with facts lol. your post in dead on. Thats what so many dont see its real easy to come on here type a message and say if racers can cut it they can drop down in class or get out. Well apparently in Central IL, thats exactly what they are doing and car counts are down and thus people like myself are suggesting changes like harder tire in an attempt to preserve car counts and the class. The trouble is that the guys that are running at tracks with good car counts are still living in denial. They are playing " I cant see it from my house game " They wont realize there is a problem until the track the go to starts dropping car counts. Then at that point they will most likely drop down to B-Mods and start lobbying to open up the rules to allow more items in the Bmods. Sadly I have seen this pattern over and over. I for one will be mentioning the issues with UMP and the need to move to another sanction with a better tire option every time I go to the track and I encourage others to the same.


There have been some excellent points made. I can tell you as a racer, a school teacher, a coach, business owner and a fan. The crowds are not there like they used to be. The cars are not there like they used to be. It is a problem that is bigger than can be simply overcome. Society has so many other options for our time, energy, and money that stuff like local racing is paying the cost. I see it in high school sports as well. Kids have so many options that they are limiting themselves or simply not going out for activities. We see it in the work effort of students in the classroom. Businesses see it in employee work ethic as well. Blame it on technology or simply the changing of the times. Something needs to be done creatively to keep people in the sport. I do not envy the position that promoters and track owners are in. They have a business to run and cash flow rules in business. There are also increased pressures from local government agencies and anti-racers to limit or shut down tracks. It also is a tough time for racers. The cost of everything rises yet payouts do not follow in most instances. It forces decisions to be made for themselves and their families. Often times that is to eliminate the hobbies. The lines of communication needs to be open for all entities involved to make this successful and sustainable.


Well put Dirtrace09. I've predicted this for a while. I wouldn't be a bit surprised that in 20-30 years if there isn't ANY dirt racing as we know it. Life is cyclical. Back in the 50's until the early 2000's there were people who either lived during the early days of dirt track racing, or were children of those guys. Now, our children would rather play video games, or some other activity than participate in our type of racing. NASCRAP has a lot of fans, but it has also leveled off due to the commercialization of the sport. Our issue is to try to prolong the inevitable for as long as we can. In doing so, we need to realize what hurts our sport, and what would help prolong it. Expensive high HP engines, baby soft tires that hook up the power, promotors who don't tech anything, and the whole "run what you brung, it makes for better racing" mentality are all things that hurt the sport. I can't understand for the life of me why anyone who does actually spend their hard-earned money to race would protest rules that would make it less expensive. It's like saying, "I like this recliner, but do you have one more expensive? It can look exactly like this one, sit and feel exactly like this one, but must cost more because that means it must be better." It makes no sense.


this is true, but it begs response" If all of this is true then its even the more reason to switch rules to a new sanction that cost less with cheaper tires etc to try and attract more racers ???


All excellent post by all of you. Now these are the guys who gets it. The time is this year after the racing season is over to make something happen. Like I said I don't have a horse in the race other then being a fan because We already sold both the SS and the Crate late a couple of years ago so, I don't have a say in it but, others do. Not sure if anything will change but, if don't try it sure as the heck won't.

[indyboywilliam]

Well lets get everything Rolling and get the tracks on board

[rustymod]

Well lets get everything Rolling and get the tracks on board

agreed time to talk to promoters !

[kidrock]

UMP has a set of rules but, yet some tracks have decided they are going to have their own rules. UMP should tell that track you can run your own rules but, the drivers in that class will Not be awarded any UMP points. Each track then can go to their drivers and say you guys want to run the rules we have and not get UMP points or do you want to run the UMP rules and get UMP points. This way the drivers can make the decision if UMP points matters to them or not.

[rustymod]

UMP has a set of rules but, yet some tracks have decided they are going to have their own rules. UMP should tell that track you can run your own rules but, the drivers in that class will Not be awarded any UMP points. Each track then can go to their drivers and say you guys want to run the rules we have and not get UMP points or do you want to run the UMP rules and get UMP points. This way the drivers can make the decision if UMP points matters to them or not.

ump just needs to go away they are the ones helping the mod class to die, so they are not gonna doing anything to help, they are ones hosing up the bmods now

[rustymod]

wow looks like imca rules will draw a decent car count Davenport reporting 48 mods so far.

[hygty]

yep UMP IS TERRIBLE ONLY HAD 40 AT TRI CITY AND 35 AT FARMER CITY

[wadegarrett]

yep UMP IS TERRIBLE ONLY HAD 40 AT TRI CITY AND 35 AT FARMER CITY oh Lite inn , your back for now. you can keep on defending ump but the war is over. Was at Fairbury last week which had a good mod count and most other places rained out. the common theme was that ump sh!t the bed with A40s tire and deal and that they were forced to go around scooping up all the old a40 tires they could get, plus had to run all the a40s tires they already had mounted. ump created that mess by not going with ONE tire like every other sanction. why does ump do this ? Because they want racers to spend more money on tires. lite inn you can keep defending ump but racers know that ump is greedy and not looking out for the racers. ump is only trying make money for hoosier and themselves and meanwhile sitting back watching the class die. Lite inn, if you are a true racefan there is no way you can defend ump unless you are related to Sam or have family working at ump. btw lite inn, the word is out on you and your game is getting old even STL racing has starting banning you as well. looks like it wont be too long before you nowhere left to post your constant defense of ump. lol even the people on STL are laughing at you for all of the new user names you are coming up with lol.

[hygty]

oh Lite inn , your back for now. you can keep on defending ump but the war is over. Was at Fairbury last week which had a good mod count and most other places rained out. the common theme was that ump sh!t the bed with A40s tire and deal and that they were forced to go around scooping up all the old a40 tires they could get, plus had to run all the a40s tires they already had mounted. ump created that mess by not going with ONE tire like every other sanction. why does ump do this ? Because they want racers to spend more money on tires. lite inn you can keep defending ump but racers know that ump is greedy and not looking out for the racers. ump is only trying make money for hoosier and themselves and meanwhile sitting back watching the class die. Lite inn, if you are a true racefan there is no way you can defend ump unless you are related to Sam or have family working at ump. btw lite inn, the word is out on you and your game is getting old even STL racing has starting banning you as well. looks like it wont be too long before you nowhere left to post your constant defense of ump. lol even the people on STL are laughing at you for all of the new user names you are coming up with lol. Lmao you can't handle the truth it was hoosier that screwed the pooch the tire is gone and they now have a second h tire wow all these defenders of g the 60 amazing the calss is dying just like the lates had 34 cars the classes that are dying which is alarming is the 4cy and street stocks

[hygty]

that was 136 cars in 5 classes over half was amods and lates

[wadegarrett]

Lmao you can't handle the truth it was hoosier that screwed the pooch the tire is gone and they now have a second h tire wow all these defenders of g the 60 amazing the calss is dying just like the lates had 34 cars the classes that are dying which is alarming is the 4cy and street stocks lmao here are the fact read slowly so you are not confused your blind loyalty to ump often does that to you. UMP and Hoosier agreed to put out a terrible tire called the A40s, it was horrid , and they pulled it off the market after racers complained. Many racers however had already bought and mount those tires and were STUCK with them. Hoosier and UMP then pulled the A40s off the market. Racers now know once and for all that UMP and Hoosier are working together to fleece them for every nickel they can get. The car counts in central IL are proving this is true. Now I realize lite inn you dont like facts but everything I posted is 100% true. Keep saying you cant see it at the one or two tracks you go to but that does not change whats going on many other tracks.

[hygty]

Bull crap enough said

[hygty]

Probably another 60 last night choosing not to race

[hygty]

Iowa state speedway had 11 mods we had more than that in 1 of 2 b mains

[hygty]

the IMCA deal is fine, because at least the crate engine is an option. The Bmod deal with UMP is a forced crate deal, making the weight deal such that you have no choice but to run a crate with every year adding more weight. At least with IMCA its your choice, and they are on a hard tire too. bring it on. not yet and the crates are very competitve with the more open motors in the b mods plus the crate motor is cheaper to run

[hygty]

wow looks like imca rules will draw a decent car count Davenport reporting 48 mods so far. what did it pay 2 k tri city weekly pay out and got 40

[$UMP$]

lmao here are the fact read slowly so you are not confused your blind loyalty to ump often does that to you. UMP and Hoosier agreed to put out a terrible tire called the A40s, it was horrid , and they pulled it off the market after racers complained. Many racers however had already bought and mount those tires and were STUCK with them. Hoosier and UMP then pulled the A40s off the market. Racers now know once and for all that UMP and Hoosier are working together to fleece them for every nickel they can get. The car counts in central IL are proving this is true. Now I realize lite inn you dont like facts but everything I posted is 100% true. Keep saying you cant see it at the one or two tracks you go to but that does not change whats going on many other tracks.Actually the a40s is a faster tire. There really isn't anything wrong with the tire other than inexperienced racers abusing them!

[hygty]

he knew that lol

[rustymod]

he knew that lol

clueless lying snakes on the ump payroll.

dean Hoffman told ump the tire was garbage, are you saying he is a liar?

lomax and others ran around buying up every a40 they could get.

this bs was all caused by Hoosier and ump

[wadegarrett]

Don't confuse things with facts, ump supporters don't like that. Numerous top racers complained and thus UMP pulled the tire. If it was so great they would have stuck to their guns.

[$UMP$]

clueless lying snakes on the ump payroll.

dean Hoffman told ump the tire was garbage, are you saying he is a liar?

lomax and others ran around buying up every a40 they could get.

this bs was all caused by Hoosier and umpI have experienced normal tire wear but then again I didn't slice the sh it out of them either like the others. Wrapping them in plastic bags helped also.

[rustymod]

I have experienced normal tire wear but then again I didn't slice the sh it out of them either like the others. Wrapping them in plastic bags helped also.

If talk to racers that got stuck with these lousy tires they will tell you that the siping was not the issue it was the tire. Dean Hoffman will tell you and others.

Hoosier's EXCUSE was too much siping or grooving, but anyone at track in central IL and MO will tell you this was not the case and thus UMP and Hoosier pulled the tire.

Since you CLAIM to race in Indiana whey do you care ? You can run Ds.

Hoosier and UMP tried to pull a fast one and went to far. They were hoping for a faster wearing tire to make some more money on a class that is already struggling.

If you like them so much let me know, I know a racer that has mounted a half dozen of these turd A40s tires and I am sure he will be happy to trade you for some As or Hs.

[hygty]

why would you put a's on in the first place and rustymods your eyes must be brown

[$UMP$]

If talk to racers that got stuck with these lousy tires they will tell you that the siping was not the issue it was the tire. Dean Hoffman will tell you and others.

Hoosier's EXCUSE was too much siping or grooving, but anyone at track in central IL and MO will tell you this was not the case and thus UMP and Hoosier pulled the tire.

Since you CLAIM to race in Indiana whey do you care ? You can run Ds.

Hoosier and UMP tried to pull a fast one and went to far. They were hoping for a faster wearing tire to make some more money on a class that is already struggling.

If you like them so much let me know, I know a racer that has mounted a half dozen of these turd A40s tires and I am sure he will be happy to trade you for some As or Hs.

My experience with the tires is on the race track. Your experience is sitting in the stands! You know nothing about the a40s.

[rustymod]

My experience with the tires is on the race track. Your experience is sitting in the stands! You know nothing about the a40s.

no you cant name a single track where you run with actual results and a name. We all know for a fact that you crew for Lomax and little else.

As for you lite dim, if you actually raced you would know that in IL its As or Hs, but since you dont own a car and dont race you would not know.

$UMP$ last I checked Dean Hoffman has won more features then you have ever even been in and he said the A40s is garbage. SO I guess you are saying he does not know what he is doing according to you ???

Neither one of you actually own a car or race so its all just BS trying to support UMP when all on this board know UMP got caught trying to screw the racers.

There days are soon done, central IL car counts for mods are dropping and all the tyoing and BS you two idiots type on here will not change the mess that UMP has already made.

[hygty]

bull crap my friend yep dropping had 40 friday night 30 sat night you don't have to own a car to figure 4 x 10 would be 40 did you read what hoosier the a 40s works at some tracks and not others and the way deans drives not knocking him at he's hammerdown kinda driver the g60 would toast also dang nab it only 35 at farmer city 28 at fairbury

[rustymod]

bull crap my friend yep dropping had 40 friday night 30 sat night you don't have to own a car to figure 4 x 10 would be 40 did you read what hoosier the a 40s works at some tracks and not others and the way deans drives not knocking him at he's hammerdown kinda driver the g60 would toast also dang nab it only 35 at farmer city 28 at fairbury

oh yeah car counts are super as long as you keep looking at the results for the same tracks. All you ever look at lite inn are tri city, pevely, etc. The tracks people are talking about including me are in Central IL, you have never even been to these tracks. So get back on STL racing and talk about those tracks.
Dean and others said the A40s was terrible. If the A40s is so great then why did Hoosier pull it off the market ????
How would know anyway you dont own a car and dont buy any tires.

[kidrock]

Rustymod, your just wasting your time with this guy, he's going to defend UMP to the end so, no sense trying to convience him. Most people in the racing world looks at the whole picture and not just part of the picture. Yes some tracks are doing better then others but, for the most part the car counts are dropping and not just in the mod division. You sure can't go by this past weekend at car counts because some of the tracks had specials and we're paying more so, naturally your going to have more cars but, if you look at the weekly shows the car counts are down and that's a FACT. I remember just a few years ago at some of these tracks you would 25 to 30 mods every week and now your lucky to 15 to 18. Now I realize there are many reason for why car counts are dropping and it's just not the Sanctions fault but, they have not done anything to help with controlling cost. Yes there are some racers or teams that can afford to keep racing but, overall it's just not that affordable to many teams nowadays. If UMP doesnt come up with a good solution it's only going to get worse. You only have to look at all the new classes being started To know there's a problem. I know some are going to say that's part of the problem but, in reality that's the fall out to a sanction body not knowing or willing to come up with a good solution. Let's those think everything is just fine and one day there going to say I sure wish I didn't have to drive so far just to race because, that's probably what it's going to come to. Tracks are going to close and drivers are going to have to drive further from home just to race and fans are going to have to drive further just to watch a race and again more added cost. It's going to be up to the drivers to get UMP and or the tracks to make some nessasary changes before its to late.

As far as the tire debacle if the tire was a good tire why did they discontinue the tire enough said. It would be one thing if you only had a couple guys complaining but, that wasn't the case here.

[hygty]

Tri citry was a weekly show and had 40 cars and 136 in total so try again you put on a fair show with good calls on races good surface and you will get cars , some tracks are blessed with a alot of racers some are not H ighland for example has lose to 30 late model team from that part of madison county and no things are not rosy expllain not gtting street stocks or 4cyls those are the classes that need revamping thats you news teams supposedly coming

[hygty]

the sky is not falling explain why some IMCA tracks get 11 cars also

[hygty]

Not enough cars in the pits. is 136 cars for a weekly show not enough cars lol

[kidrock]

Again you are so narrow minded. I guess you can't comprehend what you read sometimes. I said yes some tracks are doing better then others but, the overall picture is not good. Let's look at tri-city and where they are located. They are how close to the St.louis area and have how many people in that area they can pull from. That's what I thought quite a few people. Now I will say the Promoters at tri-city do a very good job of promoting but, it also helps you have 1,000's and 1,000's of people to pull from. Yes tri-city might have been a weekly show but, some of the other tracks had specials and or a series running their tracks here in central il. like I said in the past UMP is not a very good sanctioning body and I'm not the only one that feels this way. Yes there are plenty who think UMP is ok and their doing a great job. It should tell you something if tracks in the IMCA world are struggling to get cars. It must say the cost is getting out of hand for the common guy who works during the week and races on the weekend. Like I said I would like to see a couple of tracks get together with a good set of rules and good payout and do away with the sanction.

[$UMP$]

no you cant name a single track where you run with actual results and a name. We all know for a fact that you crew for Lomax and little else.

As for you lite dim, if you actually raced you would know that in IL its As or Hs, but since you dont own a car and dont race you would not know.

$UMP$ last I checked Dean Hoffman has won more features then you have ever even been in and he said the A40s is garbage. SO I guess you are saying he does not know what he is doing according to you ???

Neither one of you actually own a car or race so its all just BS trying to support UMP when all on this board know UMP got caught trying to screw the racers.

There days are soon done, central IL car counts for mods are dropping and all the tyoing and BS you two idiots type on here will not change the mess that UMP has already made.
I think you should go back an check your facts! Mrs. Lomax confirmed on here that I have nothing to do with them and requested that their name be left out of it! Have some respect for them! It's not my fault that I can afford to race and you can't with that Burger King paycheck!

[Pops15]

It doesn't matter what some of these guys think. Some promoters have come to realize that they need to make some changes. More promoters will be inclined to make changes come August when traditionally car counts and attendance drop. It's a matter of survival.

[hygty]

really KIDROCK you b@tch about UMP BUT THEN SUPPORT A ump track of the year what gives as far as good payout how are going to do that with the lack of fans like I said before the ecnomy has alot to do with with race fule at 8 bucks a galllon and diesel around 3 bucks again but oh lets blame the sanction and their tires and you say about tri citys with alot of people to pull from lol there is also alot thing going in the area racing or non racing explain Eldora speedway explain why belle claire is getting noi crowds and neither is I55 but Highland and tri city are

[hygty]

Yeah Clayton Miller was fast all night. First time at the track and takes home the check. Tyler Nicely coming from 17th to finish 4th but, your right the races were pretty good over all. Sportsman and SS were probably the 2 best features of the night and not that the Mods and Lates weren't good races because they were. WHO SAID THIS LOL

[hygty]

Again you are so narrow minded. I guess you can't comprehend what you read sometimes. I said yes some tracks are doing better then others but, the overall picture is not good. Let's look at tri-city and where they are located. They are how close to the St.louis area and have how many people in that area they can pull from. That's what I thought quite a few people. Now I will say the Promoters at tri-city do a very good job of promoting but, it also helps you have 1,000's and 1,000's of people to pull from. Yes tri-city might have been a weekly show but, some of the other tracks had specials and or a series running their tracks here in central il. like I said in the past UMP is not a very good sanctioning body and I'm not the only one that feels this way. Yes there are plenty who think UMP is ok and their doing a great job. It should tell you something if tracks in the IMCA world are struggling to get cars. It must say the cost is getting out of hand for the common guy who works during the week and races on the weekend. Like I said I would like to see a couple of tracks get together with a good set of rules and good payout and do away with the sanction.But you go and support which is it

[kidrock]

really KIDROCK you b@tch about UMP BUT THEN SUPPORT A ump track of the year what gives as far as good payout how are going to do that with the lack of fans like I said before the ecnomy has alot to do with with race fule at 8 bucks a galllon and diesel around 3 bucks again but oh lets blame the sanction and their tires and you say about tri citys with alot of people to pull from lol there is also alot thing going in the area racing or non racing explain Eldora speedway explain why belle claire is getting noi crowds and neither is I55 but Highland and tri city are

Just so we get this straight I'm not supporting UMP. I don't have any choice if I want to go to a race around this part of the country and while we are setting the record straight I have said all the blame does not lie with UMP there are plenty of other factors that go into it but, in my opinion overall they do a piss poor job of running a sanction. It would be different if I was the only one that felt this way but, you know others feel the same way. I can't give you a answer as to why some tracks are doing better the others because there could be many reasons why.

[kidrock]

But you go and support which is it

When I go it's not to support UMP. I can assure you of that.

[kidrock]

It doesn't matter what some of these guys think. Some promoters have come to realize that they need to make some changes. More promoters will be inclined to make changes come August when traditionally car counts and attendance drop. It's a matter of survival.

I agree 100 %, it's so nice to hear from someone who gets it.

[hygty]

But kidrock when you walk in the gate you are supporting it you can not deny it

[kidrock]

But kidrock when you walk in the gate you are supporting it you can not deny it

No when I walk in that gate I'm supporting the drivers, other fans and the track but, it just so happens the track is under the UMP SANCTION. I'm not giving a dime of my money to ump so, I'm not supporting ump but, the tracks who pay the sanction fee are.

[hygty]

which mean you are supporting UMP for now on go to sycamore or places like that yes ump has done things that sisturb racers ie street stocks but wasn't their fault you can't get on set of rules when each track hasd rules that were miles apart but guess whaT if you walk in the gates you are supporting it sorry you can't weasel out of that one is ursa is so great and UMP so bad why hasn't the take over happened you guys been complaining for years both nothing has happened NOTHING NADA ZERO

[hygty]

http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?236627-Picket-UMP-Banquet&highlight=kidrock boom got ya

[kidrock]

which mean you are supporting UMP for now on go to sycamore or places like that yes ump has done things that sisturb racers ie street stocks but wasn't their fault you can't get on set of rules when each track hasd rules that were miles apart but guess whaT if you walk in the gates you are supporting it sorry you can't weasel out of that one is ursa is so great and UMP so bad why hasn't the take over happened you guys been complaining for years both nothing has happened NOTHING NADA ZERO

Really NASCAR does and they go to tracks all over this country. Ump can get all tracks on the same page if they wanted to but, they don't want to. All they want is the money from the tracks. What ump needs to do is do away with the rules and tell the tracks have your own rules because that's what we have now. Like I told my dad Saturday when he asked me how this or that car could be legal to the rules and I told him it's just merely a suggestion from UMP. All ump has to do is pull the sanction from the tracks that don't enforce the rules but, this will never happen because tracks will leave them so fast it ain't funny.

[kidrock]

http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?236627-Picket-UMP-Banquet&highlight=kidrock boom got ya
And supposedly what did you get me on?

[kidrock]

which mean you are supporting UMP for now on go to sycamore or places like that yes ump has done things that sisturb racers ie street stocks but wasn't their fault you can't get on set of rules when each track hasd rules that were miles apart but guess whaT if you walk in the gates you are supporting it sorry you can't weasel out of that one is ursa is so great and UMP so bad why hasn't the take over happened you guys been complaining for years both nothing has happened NOTHING NADA ZERO

you can look at however you want and in your eyes if you want to say I'm supporting ump then so be it. Yes That makes a lot sense to drive 2 to 3 hours away to watch a weekly show. Listen I realize what your trying to say here but, I'm not giving a dime of my money to UMP so, no I don't support ump and if I owned a track I would not have them as a sanctioning body at my track.

[hygty]

why because they messed up your street rules i get it but if they are so bad why do they exist

[kidrock]

Well I never owned a track so they didn't mess up my SS rules but, yes they definitely messed up the SS class that's for sure but, tracks still don't follow UMP rules so, they have no respect for UMP.

[hygty]

well than ump should pull their sanction tell me which track i will call Sam this afternoon

[kidrock]

well than ump should pull their sanction tell me which track i will call Sam this afternoon

Now that's funny right there Mr. UMP.

[hygty]

no its the truth tell me which track i will call if not then you just blowing smoke

[kidrock]

[QUOTE=hygty;1922069]no its the truth tell me which track i will call if not then you just blowing smoke[/QUOT

Well heck I can pick up the phone and call UMP and tell them myself. I thought that was what a sanction body does. They look after their tracks that give them money. You know a sanction fee I think it's called and you know I'm not blowing smoke. We both know the reason why it's happening.

[hygty]

well then call them

[hygty]

Really NASCAR does and they go to tracks all over this country. Ump can get all tracks on the same page if they wanted to but, they don't want to. All they want is the money from the tracks. What ump needs to do is do away with the rules and tell the tracks have your own rules because that's what we have now. Like I told my dad Saturday when he asked me how this or that car could be legal to the rules and I told him it's just merely a suggestion from UMP. All ump has to do is pull the sanction from the tracks that don't enforce the rules but, this will never happen because tracks will leave them so fast it ain't funny.nascar you can't be sderouis they have tracks rules per ssay where is the nearest nascar track even kenny wallace kenny schrader and tony stewart don't run run under nascar sanction but they do runtheir tracks under UMP you stepped on your sack on that one tricity macon and haubstadt were nascar not anymore imagine that

[kidrock]

nascar you can't be sderouis they have tracks rules per ssay where is the nearest nascar track even kenny wallace kenny schrader and tony stewart don't run run under nascar sanction but they do runtheir tracks under UMP you stepped on your sack on that one tricity macon and haubstadt were nascar not anymore imagine that

Let's see the nearest NASCAR track to me is either Chicago or Indy not quite sure which one is the closest to me with out googling it. Yeah I know Kenny W or Kenny S does not run under NASCAR sanction that much anymore but, I'm pretty sure Tony still does so, who really step on their own sack yep that would be you lol.

Why did I know you wouldn't be able to follow along. I wasn't talking about NASCAR sanction at dirt tracks, I only referred to NASCAR that they can go to different tracks but, yet have the same rules to follow at every track so, no reason Ump couldn't demand the same thing. It doesn't seem like there is a problem in the Late Model division so, why can't it be the same way in other divisions.

[kidrock]

well then call them

nope not my job to call them. It just shows the lack of leadership by ump

[hygty]

Let's see the nearest NASCAR track to me is either Chicago or Indy not quite sure which one is the closest to me with out googling it. Yeah I know Kenny W or Kenny S does not run under NASCAR sanction that much anymore but, I'm pretty sure Tony still does so, who really step on their own sack yep that would be you lol. Why did I know you wouldn't be able to follow along. I wasn't talking about NASCAR sanction at dirt tracks, I only referred to NASCAR that they can go to different tracks but, yet have the same rules to follow at every track so, no reason Ump couldn't demand the same thing. It doesn't seem like there is a problem in the Late Model division so, why can't it be the same way in other divisions.they own dirt tracks duh and guess what they are UMP GEESH and fairground tracks either, do you really think that UMP has that many tech people to tech all eight different classes NASCAR as far weekly racing has track rules I know there was one less than 20 miles from that al most closed down unlike Revin Kevin took it over now its probably one of the best weekly tracks in the nation when gewt 140 cars on weekly show on afriday night and get over by 10 30 and yes he techs so does I 55 was standing right next t o them when they were teching a bmod he gets torn down everytime he wins and comes up legal every time

[kidrock]

they own dirt tracks duh and guess what they are UMP GEESH and fairground tracks either, do you really think that UMP has that many tech people to tech all eight different classes NASCAR as far weekly racing has track rules I know there was one less than 20 miles from that al most closed down unlike Revin Kevin took it over now its probably one of the best weekly tracks in the nation when gewt 140 cars on weekly show on afriday night and get over by 10 30 and yes he techs so does I 55 was standing right next t o them when they were teching a bmod he gets torn down everytime he wins and comes up legal every time

UMP doesn't have to have a tech person or persons at every track and I don't think anyone would expect that but, they could have a few guys go around to every track throughout the year checking on the tracks to make sure they have a tech guy and that the rules are being enforced. Yes they are not going to catch every track or every car. Heck they could show up announced and do some teaching for the night.

Yes I will agree that Tri-city is one of the best track in Illinois. Kevin does a great job down there. And I agree a promoter can make a track or break one but, that's not always the case sometimes tracks can have a good promoter but for whatever reason can not get the cars or the fans to show up no matter what they try.

I will say this if most of the racers are happy with UMP and don't want any changes then no more needs to be said. ump it is.

Just remember lity this is all just my opinion and not everyone is going to agree with me and that's fine. I know quite a few could care less either way they just want to race and that's fine. It's just I along with others thinks something needs to change to make it more appealing for more people to get into racing meaning more affordable because if not then what?

[ss12]

Hey Kid go and check out Tri city's rules for the SS class. These rules are not UMP rules but it is what works for them.

[kidrock]

Yeah I like their rules for the SS class. I think Tri-City is one of the best run tracks around that's for sure. They have enough of mix of local shows and some specials.

[hygty]

but tri city can't get street stocks either its real the higher classes are getting enough for B main including late models not crates either I even looked at some asphalt results same thing can someone explain that one

[indyboywilliam]

All tracks need are a uniform set of rules ...... And cars will come....... And inforce the rules with decent payouts........ The rest is all in how the track is promoted.......and ran.......

[dirtracerl77]

The uniform rules only bring cars that fit the rules. Street stocks are suffering around the midwest due to most tracks now running B Mods.

[indyboywilliam]

And B- Mods are because Street Stocks are out of control also


The uniform rules only bring cars that fit the rules. Street stocks are suffering around the midwest due to most tracks now running B Mods.

[hygty]

there are 2 many classes period

[kidrock]

I talked to a promoter today who had some interesting things to say about how things are being ran by UMP. There are a few promoters who are not happy with UMP right now and have been in talks about what to do for next year. It could get very interesting over the winter months this year.

[hygty]

lets see it must be lincoln three tracks on friday night within a hour and a half and yes its its hard to compete with farmer city when its right

[hygty]

The uniform rules only bring cars that fit the rules. Street stocks are suffering around the midwest due to most tracks now running B Mods.imagine that

[kidrock]

lets see it must be lincoln three tracks on friday night within a hour and a half and yes its its hard to compete with farmer city when its right

And you would be wrong but, can't wait till you find out who it is because, your not going to believe it if it happens.

[team jarvis]

And you would be wrong but, can't wait till you find out who it is because, your not going to believe it if it happens. concur its not just the Friday night gang, I am hearing maybe USRA, and I hope thats the deal ! one tire thats cheaper and harder and actual tech people !

[hygty]

really now if the track is suffering you blame it on the sanctioning body maybe it its lack of promotion or the track just can't draw it happens

[hygty]

concur its not just the Friday night gang, I am hearing maybe USRA, and I hope thats the deal ! one tire thats cheaper and harder and actual tech people !hey jarvis come to tri city you will be teched, you probably couldn't keep up but you will be teched

[kidrock]

concur its not just the Friday night gang, I am hearing maybe USRA, and I hope thats the deal ! one tire thats cheaper and harder and actual tech people !

No it's not just the Friday night gang but, like i said if it happens it could get very interesting. Even if doesn't happen at least some conversation have been taking place and they know some changes need to be made.

[kidrock]

really now if the track is suffering you blame it on the sanctioning body maybe it its lack of promotion or the track just can't draw it happens

No you cant blame everything on the sanctioning body because,that's only part of it but, some are just tired of UMP and the way they are running things right now. why pay UMP a sanction fee when most of your guys that race with you could care less about UMP points anyway. I say put that money either towards the purse or towards a point fund at the end of the year. a good payout, good rules with a decent point fund at the end of the year!!!!

[hygty]

No you cant blame everything on the sanctioning body because,that's only part of it but, some are just tired of UMP and the way they are running things right now. why pay UMP a sanction fee when most of your guys that race with you could care less about UMP points anyway. I say put that money either towards the purse or towards a point fund at the end of the year. a good payout, good rules with a decent point fund at the end of the year!!!!sounds great while we are at open the rules up spoilers any tires tires no weight etc sound good , if you can't afford the membership fee maybe you should be up in the stands

[hygty]

oops whats this lol http://www.usraracing.com/ClientFiles/Downloads/2015-USRA-License-Application.pdf

[kidrock]

sounds great while we are at open the rules up spoilers any tires tires no weight etc sound good , if you can't afford the membership fee maybe you should be up in the stands

Not talking about membership fee here so, you really think by opening up the rules its going to help the car count?

[hygty]

well what do you want where do get a point fund from and very few tracks give out a big point fund do they if you better tech thats the tracks job with that being said do you really thing a tech guy check everything on every class everynight hell they can'y even do that in NASCAR land and they have all weekend

[kidrock]

Not talking about a big point fund. I said a point fund not a big point fund. No one said anything about teching everything on every car every night that's just unrealistic.

[hygty]

yeah thats the track coming up with their own point fund that has nothing to with the sanctioning body just like tech has nothing to with the sanctioning body its the sanctiong bodies job to make sure everyone is running the same rule yeah I know you are going to say tires well guess what some tracks certain tires work better than others do liemthe all the st louis tracks are doing everyone has to run hard rr all night long and guess what better racing and better car count having 30 - 35 lates on weekly night is saying something

[kidrock]

yeah thats the track coming up with their own point fund that has nothing to with the sanctioning body just like tech has nothing to with the sanctioning body its the sanctiong bodies job to make sure everyone is running the same rule yeah I know you are going to say tires well guess what some tracks certain tires work better than others do liemthe all the st louis tracks are doing everyone has to run hard rr all night long and guess what better racing and better car count having 30 - 35 lates on weekly night is saying something

Nope not talking about Track point fund either but, wonder if they came up with a point fund without a sanction body so, are saying tracks can have their own rules or are saying they already have their own rules because from what i can tell in the lower classes they have their own rules and ump rules are just merely a suggestion.

[kidrock]

One tire rule, any tire as long as it durometer a certain amount. That way your not tied to one tire company. You have competition.

[Baddboy1]

Well I never owned a track so they didn't mess up my SS rules but, yes they definitely messed up the SS class that's for sure but, tracks still don't follow UMP rules so, they have no respect for UMP.


well than ump should pull their sanction tell me which track i will call Sam this afternoon


Hey Kid go and check out Tri city's rules for the SS class. These rules are not UMP rules but it is what works for them.

Ump sanction is for What ever class the promoter wants. That is why Tri City can do that. It cost no more or less for all classes or one class. Waiting to see UP get some competition.Will support any other sanction.UMP can starve as far as I am concerned.Good riddance.

[Baddboy1]

And B- Mods are because Street Stocks are out of control also

As are the "tweaked" crate engines. Some one needs to buy the winners engine EVERY night.

[kidrock]

Ump sanction is for What ever class the promoter wants. That is why Tri City can do that. It cost no more or less for all classes or one class. Waiting to see UP get some competition.Will support any other sanction.UMP can starve as far as I am concerned.Good riddance.

All I know is Tri-City does it right. The Gundakers run a good track

Your not alone on how you feel about UMP.

[hygty]

As are the "tweaked" crate engines. Some one needs to buy the winners engine EVERY night.really now it ain't the motor its the driver behind the wheel they tear down a sportsman driver everynight he wins and guess what they find a legal motor 20 or 30 horses is not going to make a loser a winner esp if the driver or car doesn't handle well

[hygty]

All I know is Tri-City does it right. The Gundakers run a good trackYour not alone on how you feel about UMP.tri city puts their heart and sole in the place and how about this,they have no fairboard to make things hard on them

[hygty]

Hey Kid go and check out Tri city's rules for the SS class. These rules are not UMP rules but it is what works for them.really they get maybe 15 cars a night same with highland and belle claire

[rustymod]

really now if the track is suffering you blame it on the sanctioning body maybe it its lack of promotion or the track just can't draw it happens

yeah thats it, no way can it be the $140 tires and no tech or enforcement of rules, its all a lack of promotion lol

[ghostpatrolmod]

sounds great while we are at open the rules up spoilers any tires tires no weight etc sound good , if you can't afford the membership fee maybe you should be up in the stands

LMAO this from the dude that has NO car and sits in the stands. hypocrite.

[team jarvis]

hey jarvis come to tri city you will be teched, you probably couldn't keep up but you will be teched No I tell you what Lite INN come on over to Indiana and bring that car you dont have and we can easily outrun your sorry azz. There is nothing that I hate worse that a non racing racing stand dweller trying to say what other can and cant do on the track. Time to contact the moderator again.

[$UMP$]

yeah thats it, no way can it be the $140 tires and no tech or enforcement of rules, its all a lack of promotion lolWhen you are sitting in the stands maybe you should buy a few more hotdogs to help the promoter!

[ss12]

So HGTV are you telling me that if Tri-City had UMP SS rules they would have more cars? Tri-City, Highland, And Belle Claire are doing the right thing for the class. Keeping the class affordable.

[Baddboy1]

really now it ain't the motor its the driver behind the wheel they tear down a sportsman driver everynight he wins and guess what they find a legal motor 20 or 30 horses is not going to make a loser a winner esp if the driver or car doesn't handle well

Here is a news flash for you.20-30 horse in a CRATE is a huge advantage. yes it could make a loser a winner.

[rustymod]

Here is a news flash for you.20-30 horse in a CRATE is a huge advantage. yes it could make a loser a winner.

agreed and this is a flaw with UMP forcing everyone in bmods to got crates. sure ump gets a check from gm and they do no tech cause everyone is in a crate.
meanwhile cheating is rampant and expensive.

[team jarvis]

oh no that cannot be so, I heard from UMP and IMCa both that the crate engine is saving the world, end world hunger and heal the sick.

[hygty]

no team jarvis by not having to run race gas but pump gas and yes they are competitive ,it also brings in the racer that bring knows nothing about race engines that want to race

[hygty]

ss loss equals bmods gain I beleive in a couple years ss and sportsman will not exist

[hygty]

yeah thats it, no way can it be the $140 tires and no tech or enforcement of rules, its all a lack of promotion lol tri city techs and gets nice car counts they don't depend on UMP imagine that

[kidrock]

Hey Kid go and check out Tri city's rules for the SS class. These rules are not UMP rules but it is what works for them.really they get maybe 15 cars a night same with highland and belle claire

I like their rules for the SS class


tri city techs and gets nice car counts they don't depend on UMP imagine that

Remember what you said here!!!


no team jarvis by not having to run race gas but pump gas and yes they are competitive ,it also brings in the racer that bring knows nothing about race engines that want to race

Put them on pump gas only and that right there would save a lot of money!!!

[hygty]

yes its the tracks job to tech not UMP hard right rear is working also

[hygty]

Put them on pump gas only and that right there would save a lot of money yeah thats really easy to tech

[hygty]

the ss are dying getting only 12 cars many are going to b mods same wiith sportsman and even some a mod drivers that could'nt cut it funny thing is they are the same in the b mod class which is nothing new they have been around since the late 90s

[kidrock]

yes its the tracks job to tech not UMP hard right rear is working also


No I'm talking about when you said they don't need UMP lol.

And it looks like the tracks can have their own rules as well. They don't need UMP to tell them what rules to run under. Like I said come up with a good set of rules and tech the cars and you don't need UMP.

[rustymod]

No I'm talking about when you said they don't need UMP lol.

And it looks like the tracks can have their own rules as well. They don't need UMP to tell them what rules to run under. Like I said come up with a good set of rules and tech the cars and you don't need UMP.

So what exaclty does UMP provide for the money ??? Looks like nothing, (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty overpriced tires, no support of tech at local track.
BTW real sanctions hire a local guy to do tech, hell even AMRA does that.
UMP the joke of the industry.
Why should any track stay with UMP, promoters must getting cash cause there are no others to stay with UMP.

The best deal out there is when UMP offered to buy out IMCA and Brett told them NO, and in fact we well make a cash offer to buy UMP today if you are for sale.
needless to say UMP left with there tail between there legs.

What does Sam do all day besides have conference calls with Hoosier about how much more money they can get out of the racers and play solitare on his computer oh and send his BFF Lite Inn emails about how great UMP is ??? Oh yeah I guess he does help organize the banquet once a year lol.

[rustymod]

oh yeah left out Sams conference calls to GM to discuss how they can force more classes and racers into crates so UMP can collect more cash too.

[hygty]

rustymod you are so full of crap IMCA don't have the cash to buy WRG that's w saying that's what you are saying that means all touring groups the east coast thank God that didn't happen and there is nothing wrong with the crates in the right classes late models classes maybe and kidrock lets say they went track rules and you wanted to travel when your track is down you there and they have a rule that you can't change real quick guess you are screwed with or any other sanction you know what the rules are

[sirleafalot]

Lite Inn I dont know you and nor do I care to know rusty, but see below which a recent email reply to me from Brett Root himself I edited out my name but the rest is as is and if dont believe that call or email Brett yourself and he will tell you. IMCA has plenty of money: Hi ######: I can assure you, there are no negotiations taking place to sell IMCA to WRG. Back when WRG group was formed and as they purchased a variety of other racing entities like DIRT, UMP and WoO, they had approached IMCA as well. However, we weren't interested in selling IMCA to WRG then, or now. In fact, we offered to purchase UMP from WRG during those initial discussions. The discussions abruptly stopped. We've assembled a great team at IMCA and I'm looking very forward to leading them well into the future. Thank you for your comments, as well as your support of IMCA Racing. IMCA Brett Root | President 1800 West D Street | Vinton, IA 52349 Ofc: 319-472-2201 | Cel: 319-270-0567 www.imca.com | broot@imca.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: This e-mail, including attachments, is for the sole use of the individual to whom it is addressed, and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error, please notify the sender by reply e-mail and destroy this message and its attachments. The sender does not accept liability for any errors, omissions, corruption or virus in the contents of this message or any attachments that arise as a result of e-mail transmission.

[rustymod]

LOL once again Lite Inn has no clue, I heard the same thing from a racer in Iowa. IMCA countered and offered to by UMP from WRG, too (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) bad it did not happen. IMCA ownership which be GIANT upgrade over the lack of leadership and garbage tires UMP has now.

[$UMP$]

LOL once again Lite Inn has no clue, I heard the same thing from a racer in Iowa. IMCA countered and offered to by UMP from WRG, too (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) bad it did not happen. IMCA ownership which be GIANT upgrade over the lack of leadership and garbage tires UMP has now.
Business 101.... When approached to sell your entity offer to purchase theirs in a attempt to inflate the value of said entity.

[$UMP$]

LOL once again Lite Inn has no clue, I heard the same thing from a racer in Iowa. IMCA countered and offered to by UMP from WRG, too (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) bad it did not happen. IMCA ownership which be GIANT upgrade over the lack of leadership and garbage tires UMP has now.You must be a graduate of The University Of Burger King!

[hygty]

some people can't read not UMP buying IMCA BUT IMCA buying UMP what big race does IMCA CLAIM oh thats right the super nationals kinda lame to any thing wrg puts puts out don't you think

[kidrock]

rustymod you are so full of crap IMCA don't have the cash to buy WRG that's w saying that's what you are saying that means all touring groups the east coast thank God that didn't happen and there is nothing wrong with the crates in the right classes late models classes maybe and kidrock lets say they went track rules and you wanted to travel when your track is down you there and they have a rule that you can't change real quick guess you are screwed with or any other sanction you know what the rules are

Lity, it's happening right now. The rules are not the same at every track as we speak. No reason tracks that leave UMP can't get together and come up with a set rules, have a tech guy that does oversee all the tracks and each track have their own tech guy and have the head tech guy go to each track a few times a year to make sure the tracks are teching. Let the head tech guy decide which track he wants to visit and when. Don't think this can't or won't work because some dedicated people from the racers to promoters can make this happen.

[kidrock]

So what exaclty does UMP provide for the money ??? Looks like nothing, (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty overpriced tires, no support of tech at local track.
BTW real sanctions hire a local guy to do tech, hell even AMRA does that.
UMP the joke of the industry.
Why should any track stay with UMP, promoters must getting cash cause there are no others to stay with UMP.

The best deal out there is when UMP offered to buy out IMCA and Brett told them NO, and in fact we well make a cash offer to buy UMP today if you are for sale.
needless to say UMP left with there tail between there legs.

What does Sam do all day besides have conference calls with Hoosier about how much more money they can get out of the racers and play solitare on his computer oh and send his BFF Lite Inn emails about how great UMP is ??? Oh yeah I guess he does help organize the banquet once a year lol.

Well let's be honest, they do have a banquet at the end of the year and they do pay out some money and they do give away things at the banquet, plus I believe they do have some kind of insurance. I'm not 100% sure about the insurance or how much it covers or how good it is or even if they still have the insurance.

[hygty]

Lity, it's happening right now. The rules are not the same at every track as we speak. No reason tracks that leave UMP can't get together and come up with a set rules, have a tech guy that does oversee all the tracks and each track have their own tech guy and have the head tech guy go to each track a few times a year to make sure the tracks are teching. Let the head tech guy decide which track he wants to visit and when. Don't think this can't or won't work because some dedicated people from the racers to promoters can make this happen.you are dreaming tracks will make sure their regulars stay there by having some rule that no other track in the area has

[hygty]

Well let's be honest, they do have a banquet at the end of the year and they do pay out some money and they do give away things at the banquet, plus I believe they do have some kind of insurance. I'm not 100% sure about the insurance or how much it covers or how good it is or even if they still have the insurance.and where do they get their money from out of their azz

[kidrock]

you are dreaming tracks will make sure their regulars stay there by having some rule that no other track in the area has

Or they can do what they do now and tell guys to bring it and race.

[kidrock]

and where do they get their money from out of their azz


They get a check from Hoosier and Hoosier gets that money from the racers by Hoosier selling the race teams junk tires so, UMP gets the money from the drivers and teams plus from the license the drivers have to purchase.

[rustymod]

They get a check from Hoosier and Hoosier gets that money from the racers by Hoosier selling the race teams junk tires so, UMP gets the money from the drivers and teams plus from the license the drivers have to purchase.

loads of tracks out there that run without sanction, Hoosier will pay money for points if they only allow Hoosier tires, then the rest is up to the promoters just like kidrock mentioned

note I only said imca offered to buyout ump not wrg as lite dim assumed, but he voted for Obama and does not race so I expect no less

[hygty]

no you r the dummy they can'tbuy part of the company they have buy all everyone talk about screwed geesh everyone in UMP woulld either quit or have to start ove and isnt IMCA hoosiers also

[kidrock]

That's why I like this rule lol One tire rule, any tire as long as it durometer a certain amount. That way your not tied to one tire company. You have competition.

[hygty]

really now if you think you are getting beat because of a choice of tire rule guess what you are beat no matter what

[rustymod]

really now if you think you are getting beat because of a choice of tire rule guess what you are beat no matter what

and you know the tire is not a bigger issue because you Lite Inn buy tires and run in the class ???

NO

or because work on a current successfull team ? NO

SO in the end its all just your BS opinion with no actual real life information or experince to back any of it up.

To prove your clueless, if WRG wanted to sell any part of there company to another company they can easily do it brainless.

Here is an example now read slowly....

Nokia sold there phone handset division to Microsoft.

Guess what ! NOKIA DID NOT SELL The entire company to MS. Please head to home depot and pick up a box of common sense, you need it badly.

[hygty]

BUT WRG knew what kinda disaster it would be if they sold it and you are the one that needs common sense

[kidrock]

really now if you think you are getting beat because of a choice of tire rule guess what you are beat no matter what

I'm not talking about getting beat because if a tire rule. I'm talking about making it cheaper for the racers. Competition from different manufacturers usually make things cheaper.

[hygty]

remember the hoosier / goodyear deal with NASCAR, you mean like AMRA with spec tires in the rear and open tires up front, first you have to work smarter not harder ate engine buying used tires , running a crate engine when you can and be competitive

[indyboywilliam]

Put everyone on the same playing field......ENGINE ... TIRE.... And make them Dial in Chassis and Drive to win races NOT OUT SPEND THEM AND OUT MOTOR THEM

[rustymod]

BUT WRG knew what kinda disaster it would be if they sold it and you are the one that needs common sense

no again you missed the point IMCA told UMP/WRG to hit the bricks is what happened. IMCA is highly organized and comparing them to UMP is equivilant of comparing a mini stock to full bore Late Model.

UMP could not organize a two car funeral. Sam would be too busy working with Hoosier on the three different compounds of tires available and the funeral would never happen.

[hygty]

no again you missed the point IMCA told UMP/WRG to hit the bricks is what happened. IMCA is highly organized and comparing them to UMP is equivilant of comparing a mini stock to full bore Late Model. UMP could not organize a two car funeral. Sam would be too busy working with Hoosier on the three different compounds of tires available and the funeral would never happen. we know who would be the mini stock what is IMCA 's claim to fame hmmm if you Larry Boos and Roger Slack let IMCA take over Eldora this weekend I got a bridge to sell you