Dirt Late Model racing must veer away from NASCAR's path

[Returning to Dirt]

http://insidedirtracing.com/dirt-late-model-racing-must-veer-away-from-nascars-path/

This column is not about NASCAR drivers being involved in the sport of dirt racing. It's about the ever increasing role of engineering in regard to aerodynamics in racing.

[zyoung25]

Bring back the body rules from early 2000s. Those were my favorite cars and still are. I seem a couple drivers shared this same link on Facebook before it was here. Good read though.

[MBR Performance]

The best thing they could do is get rid of the valance and the lip. Make the nose come straight down with a height rule for both sides, fenders must set flat side to side with filler panel no drop in filler panel. Also knock back the spoiler 1 - 2 inches. But if this is to be done it must be the same for all classes of late model (crate,steelblock,limited,semi, ect.)

[Brian Gray]

^^^ agree ^^^^

[Brian Gray]

Just taking away the valance would change a lot.

[ShawnStreet]

I loathe the way they look now. Sort of like a ticked off station wagon if you ask me. If you're going to let the body styles dictate that much of the race, go full blown wedge.

Personally I'd like to see a smaller body style. Not only for the racing, but those cars just look faster on TV. I can't watch a TV race because they look like they are going 30 mph.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I cried when I saw the first noses with splitter and valence. All I could think was, "why?"

[DoubleZero]

Agreed. To a point. NASCAR may have been a worthy blue-print in the past, but hardly now. Dirt racing still has the driver element. High side, low side, middle, hang it out. Not quite the same with pavement. If the car a'int there, a'int gonna happen. You still see Kyle Larson try and look for a different groove, but it rarely is the game-changer it can be with dirt. All the aero in the world, won't make a dirt driver; the same people will still win regardless of body design.

[grt74]

the engineering is a problem with set ups not just aero,if we really want to make it easier for the local guys to compete,get rid of all the exotic spring setups and shock setup,aero is a factor on the bigger tracks but not so much at the bullrings(we just don't see the speeds that nascar sees)
if you want to run up front on the regional or national level today your going to have to be very sharp or have some help which in turn is an extra cost,hell on a local level anymore you have to be up on your game as far as setups
if you really want to fix it just go to standard spring setups,with no travel limiters on the rf,and 4" of travel or more on the rf,and let the games begin
the nascar guys are very,very sharp at wheel loads under a dynamic stance

[MBR Performance]

If you don't think aero is critical on Dirt tracks stick you hand out the window at 50 mph. Now consider the size of the front of the car at the same speed.

[Kwd1253]

If you don't think aero is critical on Dirt tracks stick you hand out the window at 50 mph. Now consider the size of the front of the car at the same speed.Well yall bring good points but only way its not going to go nascrap is the racers "big names" put their foot down and not let that happen. but long as they getting money for out side help, and free stuff to race them parts. they are not going stand up and stop them doing that. I can see a national tour being nascrap late model and the regional sticking to their roots. because they can't afford a nascar late model.

[grt74]

If you don't think aero is critical on Dirt tracks stick you hand out the window at 50 mph. Now consider the size of the front of the car at the same speed.

i agree aero is a factor also,but i think all the other factors are missed alot,aero for the most part is cheap if you know what your doing,the other things can cost a racer alot,what kills me for the most part is they all have the rules but i rarely ever see them inforced,the dishing on the r side,most of the t bars are not straight(very easy to see)at the (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit and the hood,most don't notice that the bodies aren't even mounted straight anymore there offset,i see a ton of different things but most end up sliding by,they have checked us before and threw a fit, just for me to walk over to the tour guys and theres be even worse
one thing that i do like about dirt late models is that they are cutting edge for the most part and you do have a chance to come up with new innovations but its getting to a point where the cost is just getting out of control for what you can win

[Okfine]

If you don't think aero is critical on Dirt tracks stick you hand out the window at 50 mph. Now consider the size of the front of the car at the same speed.
Excellent perspective on aero....

[grt74]

i do agree that with the added aero, that equals more wheel load

[Josh Bayko]

I think going back in time is a horrible way to move forward. Could the bodies use some slimming/trimming? Sure, but it's gotta be in way that's actually progressive instead of regressive.

[Birky15Bfan]

I think the width of the body shouldn't be able to be more than a stock vehicle.Then they could run 4 wide with no problems like the stockcar classes do at your weekly race tracks every week.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I think going back in time is a horrible way to move forward. Could the bodies use some slimming/trimming? Sure, but it's gotta be in way that's actually progressive instead of regressive.
I think killing the wedge was regressive. It worked.

[crownman25]

THE THING HURTING DIRT RACING AT THE MOMENT IS BUMP STOPS AND STACK SPRINGS.This has just made setup so much more complicated.People that have the luxury of renting a track or if ur lucky enough to be in the buddy click and get access to a track.THEY A HAVE A VERY BIG ADVANTAGE over people who can not do this.Its bad enough with all the adjustments with a four link now you have all the diff bump stops and shims to choose from.these cars have gained so much corner speed spead from this.You have to buy your way into a click to getthe info because people have tested and figured a good bump stop package out.it has become very dangerous also drivers flipping when the frame or cross member bottoms out or a shock end breaks off or afram or shock mount..I think all stack springs and bump stops should be outlawed before its too late.. I was talking to a asphalt chassis builder in the south.I ask him what happ. to short track asphalt racing in the south,He told me bump stops and teams practicing all the time...

[Josh Bayko]

I think killing the wedge was regressive. It worked.

It wasn't regressive at all. Before the wedges, the cars were still really stock appearing. After the wedges, they were just less radical wedges.

[hygty]

the engineering is a problem with set ups not just aero,if we really want to make it easier for the local guys to compete,get rid of all the exotic spring setups and shock setup,aero is a factor on the bigger tracks but not so much at the bullrings(we just don't see the speeds that nascar sees)if you want to run up front on the regional or national level today your going to have to be very sharp or have some help which in turn is an extra cost,hell on a local level anymore you have to be up on your game as far as setupsif you really want to fix it just go to standard spring setups,with no travel limiters on the rf,and 4" of travel or more on the rf,and let the games beginthe nascar guys are very,very sharp at wheel loads under a dynamic stancecan we say an amen

[hygty]

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=1980+dirt+late+model&id=CDBB8AF0D65B04264D032B25873DB71ED03D63AC&FORM=IQFRBA bring the ole ways fast guys to middle or back of the pack and you wonder why the stands were full then

[FlatTire]

You know it’s always something. It used to be traction control, then it was tire doping. For a brief stint it was shocks, and now the dirtiest word in late model racing is “aero”.
And what’s sad is finding an “aero” advantage doesn’t require an engineering degree like some claim nor does it cost extreme amounts of money. You could start with a college text book. You might even find a few videos on the internet that show how air flow behaves with late models in wind tunnels. Wind tunnel testing is far less expensive than what it takes to run a dirt late model per night. So just skip a race and go test instead. If you can afford a chassis dyno, you can afford a wind tunnel session. A person could learn volumes with some yarn and a GoPro.
I think what we have today is a society full of lazy brain dead complainers. They refuse to think on their own, if they even think in the first place. They refuse to educate themselves. They want to be able to just go out and buy it and when they still can’t win they want the technology outlawed because it was too expensive and makes for bad racing!
Racing has always been about gaining a technical advantage over your competitors. Ask Larry Moore why he was so dominant. It wasn’t just his driving skills. Larry Phillips was another one that produced technically superior cars. Look at F1.
I don’t see any sort of total domination out there these days in dirt late model racing. Different people are winning. Different chassis brands are winning. There are two national tours that have healthy car counts. The regional tours that I pay attention to are doing just fine. So I’m not going to buy this latest round of “the sky is falling” just because some half-informed internet keyboard jockey said “aero” was bad for you. All the races I see are just as exciting as they have always been.
Like HP said, I guess we should just take the bodies off and run rigid suspension. Then we will have overgrown go carts and then what?

[Bubstr]

This talk of racing going to he!! in a hand bag, has been going on since there where races. The truth is, it evolves and always has. Thoroughbred horses and light weight buggy is going to ruin the sport. In the midgets and sprint or champ cars, it was aftermarket Curtis Craft chassis and Offy engines. In AMA flat track, it was overhead valves and aftermarket frames. This LM thing has been talked about since the 60s Aftermarket parts are driving the little guy out.

The truth is, cost does drive the little guy out and with him goes his fans. The good thing is, something always takes it's place on the local scene. I guess we all miss the day, when the mechanic at the local gas station could go to the junk yard and get parts to race and we could cheer him on. News is, there is no mechanic at the local gas station, but you can buy Pizza there. Things have evolved and we can't turn the clock back. We can only wait for what it evolves into. Survival depends on a good show for a reasonable price and interest in who wins.