Mastersbilt Chassis?

[Krooser]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/image4_zpsoeer70ij.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/image4_zpsoeer70ij.jpg.html)

How about it experts?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/image2_zpsofaxvq4s.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/image2_zpsofaxvq4s.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/image1_zps8c9mhmz7.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/image1_zps8c9mhmz7.jpg.html)

[TheJet-09]

Mastersbilt? Maybe...I'd feel more confident if I could see the main hoop right behind the drivers seat/in front of the LR tire area. But an '05? I say no way, much older. I'm not sure when they got away from the single shear 4-bar mounts, but I remember the rear frame rails dropping in the back to match up with mono-leaf sliders.

[Krooser]

I was also thinking it's older but I wasn't around the racing scene a whole lot during those years. I don't think this guy is scamming me… I don't think he knows.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If it is a Masters, and not a copy, it is an old wide combo chassis. Combo because it could be leaf. Certainly pre 2000.

[blncfn57]

it does appear to be a mastersbit by looking at the bar going to the back off the top of the halo. The right side was always lower on the older cars anyway, not sure about the more recent ones.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

it does appear to be a mastersbit by looking at the bar going to the back off the top of the halo. The right side was always lower on the older cars anyway, not sure about the more recent ones.

There are a few things that don't look quite right, but it certainly could be one. And is definitely a copy if not one.

A car that old can and has had things changed. The lr behind mount was added.

[Krooser]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image3_zpsdrwlensp.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image3_zpsdrwlensp.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image3_zpsokkxk6cm.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image3_zpsokkxk6cm.jpg.html)

[HuckleberryB4]

Possibly a GRT?

[billetbirdcage]

Possibly a GRT?


Nope, not a GRT. way to many things different to be a GRT.

If I had to guess on the year of a masters, I'd say a 95 to 97ish but the LR behind mount sort of throws that for a loop, if the LR behind mount is factory and not added by someone that would date the car 1999ish or newer as that is when most made it standard on cars.

I'd pass on the car, if you thinking about it as any J-bar angle at all and the RR tire will rub the RR frame rail

[fox1162002]

I had a 96 masters back in the day the combo car and it looks like it. I also had a 99 narrow it had the single 4 bar mounts on top. Id like to see the bottom 4 bar mounts.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I had a 96 masters back in the day the combo car and it looks like it. I also had a 99 narrow it had the single 4 bar mounts on top. Id like to see the bottom 4 bar mounts.

On a narrow car, the mounts would be spaced off the frame rail.

[dfhotlm33c]

Here are some pics of my 02 Masters wide/combo car. May help for comparison.

[Krooser]

What dimensions change between a wide and narrow car? I assume it's frame width?

The owner never raced this car… he was going to use it for a mud drag racer. Now his GF wants it gone. I'm not sure what I'd do with it… if it's one that came from a certain local driver it has a pretty good back story with many feature wins and a few championships to boot. It's cheap enough that I could just store it… or make it a show car or run it in vintage races. It would make a good dirt super stock with a stock stub and 3 link or leafs. Or flip it.

Film @ 11.

[Cranky]

1995 Mastersbilt with some "chassis shop" or homemade updates!

[Krooser]

Most cars get "mods" as they age… kinda like me. I got a 5th design stainless and plastic shoulder five years ago!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Rear frame width. Different front geometry.

[Krooser]

Thanks……..

[Krooser]

No serial # that I can find so it's likely a copy. The owner can likely give me the name of the PO so I may get some set-up info.

Here's a few more pix.


http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-9_zpsmyapdx8d.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-9_zpsmyapdx8d.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-8_zpspdgodqho.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-8_zpspdgodqho.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-5_zpsstvkfbnb.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-5_zpsstvkfbnb.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-7_zpsg7ywzrpi.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-7_zpsg7ywzrpi.jpg.html)

[Krooser]

More pix…….

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-4_zpsx9avgtae.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-4_zpsx9avgtae.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-6_zpsxe0fzoqp.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-6_zpsxe0fzoqp.jpg.html)
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-10_zpscwthulkr.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-10_zpscwthulkr.jpg.html)

[Krooser]

Last but not least…

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-11_zps35nymvgo.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/image1-11_zps35nymvgo.jpg.html)

[Krooser]

Questions? Is that a Winters QC? Sweet rack?

I spoke again to the owners Dad tonite and the PO's GF. She sure is excited about the possibility of someone buying the car.

I'm pretty sure I'm going to take a chance on this deal. First it's priced right… and he's open to offers. Second it would be cheaper for me to go through this car then it will be to finish the super stock I now have in my shop. I can run this car 45 miles from home on Saturday nights and there are two other tracks within 90 miles running Friday and Sunday nights. My closest track running supers is 85 miles and the next closest is 120 miles. The pay is better in the LM's too but you know how far that $$$ goes!

I have an iron headed motor that would fit the rules, too. Big HP? No… but it should be dependable.

I'll know by Friday if I make the deal.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Just don't expect to make it drive like a modern late model. And I would move the rr frame rail as Billet referred to. You can crudely cut it alongside the tire, slide it in 2 inches, and box in the hole you made.

Although much more rare, the narrow car was vastly superior to the wide.

[hucktyson]

Jimmy Owens would win the world 100 in that car according to this board so you may as well buy it

[HuckleberryB4]

Not sure about Owens. Maybe Freddy Smith!

[25drtrkr]

Not sure about Owens. Maybe Freddy Smith!

I think Freddy did win the World in that car! lol

[Krooser]

Well I've never driven a 'modern' LM so I won't be missing anything.

I'm not a fan of the 4 bar deal but I'll have to study how these things really work. I'll ask around to see if I can get some help from some of the guys at the track. I have a friend who built some great cars back in the 80's-90's… maybe he can give me some advice. I'd sooner have leaf springs myself…


Here's my last LM… ex-USAC car built in '61. Genuine Holman-Moody 427 side oiler.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

It would be easy to put leafs on it.

[25drtrkr]

As long as you don't expect it to drive like a Cadillac, and win regularly, you'll be fine. But I believe, like others have posted, you need to make sure the rr trailing arms don't hit the frame (you may can space the trailing arm away from the frame) and you can get more angle in the j-bar (it looks like you can just drill more holes and reinforce them with tubing).

[billetbirdcage]

As long as you don't expect it to drive like a Cadillac, and win regularly, you'll be fine. But I believe, like others have posted, you need to make sure the rr trailing arms don't hit the frame (you may can space the trailing arm away from the frame) and you can get more angle in the j-bar (it looks like you can just drill more holes and reinforce them with tubing).

Actually, the problem isn't the bars hitting the frame that I recall but there were some older cars when using newer type set ups that the birdcage could get into the RR frame rail. The real problem is the RR tire will rub the outside of the RR frame rail and pop the tire, if you get some j-bar rake into. You will see black marks on the frame rail, the only way to fix it is to move the framerail over at least 2".

Honestly, I would pass even if it was really cheap. What are you getting there and how much of it isn't going to take a fair amount of money to get it usable? You're guessing the rack and the rear end aren't going to need a ton of work, then what about the brakes? They look to have been sitting quite a while, all of that could need gone thru and need new seals and pistons in the calipers. God now's if the master cylinders are even any good after sitting.

Then the fuel cell: That cell was new in around 95 or so and many had real issues with them, Bill Frye had to turn his side ways in the car to get the car back to where it was before the cell. you can look at old pictures around 95 to 97 and see his and Verdin's cars where both that way.

So how much is really left to use? I honestly wouldn't pay much at all for it, unless you could inspect a bunch of the parts to see if they are even usable without spending cash on them. Too many other cars out there just as cheap, it's a buyer's market.

Just my opinion

[rakracing]

Krooser, where in country is this if its in a cold area id spend some time looking over cage bars and frame rail, water tends to get in rivet holes in cage bars and main frame rails then freezes and splits or swells the bars, frame may not be safe anymore, you may be buying a rear, rack and some odd other parts.

[TheJet-09]

I'm of the same opinion. Many, many moons ago I bought a complete Sportsman type car (stub chassis) thinking I could salvage the rearend and brakes, suspension, etc. I think I paid $500. In the end I only used the body, which I could've bought brand new for less (this was over 20 years ago). I regretted not only the money wasted but the time as well.

[25drtrkr]

Actually, the problem isn't the bars hitting the frame that I recall but there were some older cars when using newer type set ups that the birdcage could get into the RR frame rail. The real problem is the RR tire will rub the outside of the RR frame rail and pop the tire, if you get some j-bar rake into. You will see black marks on the frame rail, the only way to fix it is to move the framerail over at least 2".

Honestly, I would pass even if it was really cheap. What are you getting there and how much of it isn't going to take a fair amount of money to get it usable? You're guessing the rack and the rear end aren't going to need a ton of work, then what about the brakes? They look to have been sitting quite a while, all of that could need gone thru and need new seals and pistons in the calipers. God now's if the master cylinders are even any good after sitting.

Then the fuel cell: That cell was new in around 95 or so and many had real issues with them, Bill Frye had to turn his side ways in the car to get the car back to where it was before the cell. you can look at old pictures around 95 to 97 and see his and Verdin's cars where both that way.

So how much is really left to use? I honestly wouldn't pay much at all for it, unless you could inspect a bunch of the parts to see if they are even usable without spending cash on them. Too many other cars out there just as cheap, it's a buyer's market.

Just my opinion

Yep, I agree bbc! We haven't even discussed any safety factors. The tubing should be sonic tested but who has one of those lying around.Im from a fairly big town so there is one available,for a price of course. Also, some of the welds look questionable too.

But, Krooser probly just wants to race and theres nothing wrong with that. If hes furnishing the labor it shouldn't cost a whole lot to get it going. If it was mine, I would strip it, fix what needed to be fixed and re-powdercoat it. But it will never compete equally with the newer chassis'.

[hucktyson]

That's what racing is all about

[Krooser]

I made a deal for the car for under $1K. I have to find a few tires to get it rolling again. I'll pick it up in a couple weeks after I get the trailer my son is letting me use.

I have a few health issues so it's now or never for me. Low buck or no buck I'm going to give it hell. My wife thinks I'm nuts but don't they all. I have a couple low buck sponsors lined up. I'll get some help with fuel and tires plus my engine guy is willing to do some machine work for me at a discount to help out.

I've never enjoyed running the 1/2 miles but I'll be back on 'em with this car. Maybe getting out of my comfort zone will be a good thing. I'll be looking for someone who's willing to school me on 4 bars… I'm going to the track Saturday night to see if I can find some help. It's never too early to learn.

I want to thank all you guys for helping me decipher what I have here. I'll get more info as I plod along. Regarding safety… it's been under cover most of the time since it's last race. The guy who owns it now said he had it in a shed until this spring when he rolled it out to sell. The last guy who raced it last had it in his shop for several years as he kept it as his spare. I'll give it a good inspection when I get it on my frame table.

[JustAddDirt]

As stated above, one major problem with older cars is a problem that cannot be seen. If that car was built in the mid to later 90's, and was built out of say .083 tubing,(likely electro weld) how thick do you think it is now? Tubing sweats, and it will rust from the inside. Keith Masters stated several years ago that he has seen tubing degradation of .xxx thousands a year (do not remember the exact number). So if this car was built in say 95, that is 20 years of internal rusting, and thinning of the walls of all the tubing in the car.

I would not ever race that car in competition. Restore it maybe, if it had good history. Too dangerous.

JMO

[hucktyson]

Keith masters also says his cars are the best the first night you run them and they drop quickly after that lol if Keith was right about losing x number of thousandths per year this car wouldn't even exist and clearly it does. I see no problem with this guy taking this car to live his dream while he can. With that being said I wouldn't have given the guy more than like 300 dollars for it

[save the racers]

Bought a car just like that sight unseen afew years ago.A combo car is a z-link-4 bar to me,not a leaf -4bar.I was worried about the car rusting from the inside.We cut the back half off and was surprised how good the pipe looked.Narrowed the tail up and made it a combo car.Turned out to be a good car on little bull rings.It didn't have any chassis numbers,but I was able to contact the original own that picked it up from mastersbilt .

[Krooser]

This will be the world's cheapest late model.

I plan on going thru everything to make sure all is right. I'll pull every bearing, reseal or rebuild the rack, QC, hubs, etc. But it won't be blown apart for powdercoat. One of my sponsors sells paint and they custom match colors in rattle cans. The right side decking will be replaced… I have a brake in my shop so I'll build the body at home.

Winter racers auctions may net some later/lighter brake parts. I'll need some more wheels, another radiator and some spare parts. The old shocks/springs that are on the car are likely obsolete so they will be replaced with modern stuff. Not $1000 shocks that's for sure. I have a good inventory of QA1 and Bilstein's for my super… too bad they won't work.

I'll likely run this on Saturday nights @ Shawano Speedway. Always a good field of cars every week. Beaver Dam runs Sundays and they are only drawing a handful of late's since they reopened this year. Both tracks have similar rules… 362" iron or aluminum heads. A 370" open motor deal with a restrictor plate. Or IMCA mod engine. Lots of choices. Hard tires.

I figure last place in the main pays between $100 and $140 depending on the track. First is $750.00 IIRC. It makes more sense to run for $140 with a $3000 car than to race for $750 with a $40,000 car. Am I wrong here? See where I'm going with this?

I plan on having fun, racing hard in the heats and staying out of the way in the main. You're all invited. I could use the help.

[let-r-eat]

Fun is what racing is all about. Giver er hell!

[Krooser]

Well I went to the track tonite. One of the LM guys dragged four used Hoosiers W30's along for me so I can get some rubber on the old girl that hold's air.

I spent about three hours asking questions and generally being a big PITA. But I learned a bunch. I now know the concern about the right frame rail is valid even if I don't set up the car exactly the way most modern cars are run. The driver who brought the tires runs an '08 Rocket so I took a lot of mental notes. I talked chassis with him and engines with his Dad who builds 'em for the team. Despite the rather liberal rules allowing several different combos most guys are running Brodix spec heads, 360 ci and around 650 HP. A couple open engines with restrictor plates… no crates or IMCA engines in sight AFAIK.

They broke a piston a few weeks ago in the 'good' engine so they put in their spare bullet and they were down 50 HP. Tough nite… handled good in the heat but no forward drive in the main. RR tire got a hole in the heat. New RR didn't seem to help.

Still doing homework. Looks like the cutting wheel and plasma torch will get a workout this fall.

I will say that these cars fly when you are watching from the pit wall… certainly more exciting than in the grandstand.

[Krooser]

Well I went to the track tonite. One of the LM guys dragged four used Hoosiers W30's along for me so I can get some rubber on the old girl that hold's air.

I spent about three hours asking questions and generally being a big PITA. But I learned a bunch. I now know the concern about the right frame rail is valid even if I don't set up the car exactly the way most modern cars are run. The driver who brought the tires runs an '08 Rocket so I took a lot of mental notes. I talked chassis with him and engines with his Dad who builds 'em for the team. Despite the rather liberal rules allowing several different combos most guys are running Brodix spec heads, 360 ci and around 650 HP. A couple open engines with restrictor plates… no crates or IMCA engines in sight AFAIK.

They broke a piston a few weeks ago in the 'good' engine so they put in their spare bullet and they were down 50 HP. Tough nite… handled good in the heat but no forward drive in the main. RR tire got a hole in the heat. New RR didn't seem to help.

Still doing homework. Looks like the cutting wheel and plasma torch will get a workout this fall.

I could run leafs and I would be comfortable fab'ing the brackets but I'm not sure I could get the corner speeds these newer car are getting especially in a big 1/2 mile like Shawano. My super is a leaf car and every car I've raced over the years was leaf except my IMCA mod. But it's been years ago...

I will say that these cars fly when you are watching from the pit wall… certainly more exciting than in the grandstand.

[SuperEight]

Here are some pics of my 02 Masters wide/combo car. May help for comparison.

Now that's a race car! I love those Masters Combo cars, they just work and last and last. I'd wager the Masters Combo cars won more races and championships than rocket has ever entered. Seems like I heard when they tried to change the design and offer the narrow cars and Millennium cars and even the early smack stuff that people kept ordering the combo design till they just refused to make anymore. They just work.

[Krooser]

Finally got her in the shop... now the fun begins. Looking forward to it.

BTW... I now know the car is a real Mastersbilt. I talked to the fella that was the local dealer in this area for many years. He remembers it as a car he had on display @ Cedar Lake Speedway for their big show. It went thru several owners...

And the concerns about rust was somewhat relevant as two of the inner control arm mounts were damaged by water freezing and breaking the weld seam on the tubing. No other evidence of rust anywhere...

I also found some evidence that the RF frame rail in front of the front crossmember had been repaired with new tubing. Nice repair job as you really have to look closely to see the weld.

And that same rail, behind the crossmember, has a bow in it of about 1/4". So I have an appt. with my local "racer friendly" frame shop in two weeks to get it on their frame rack and make it right. He pulled the frame on a metric car that I bought to flip a couple years ago and charged me $100.00.

So things will be moving right along...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0479_zpslu6sjvfe.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0479_zpslu6sjvfe.jpg.html)

[Krooser]

We had some discussion about the age of this chassis and possible rust problems with it.

I'm modifying the RR frame to provide more tire clearance (thanks Mastersbilt Racer) and I snapped a couple pix of the inside of the main frame rail and the tubing that supports the right shock mount, right upper four bar mount, etc. The tube with a significant amount of rust flaking was the downtube from the main hoop that goes to the main rail behind the hoop... lots of rust flakes but not a lot of damage from what I can see... and I repaired/replaced two of the front tubes that make up the upper a-arm mounts as there was some evidence of water getting inside and freezing thereby making the tubes bulge. All the rest were pretty darn good.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0516_zpsuzzgvdzf.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0516_zpsuzzgvdzf.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0518_zpsj7latsku.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0518_zpsj7latsku.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0519_zpswkbub5ru.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0519_zpswkbub5ru.jpg.html)



http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0521_zpslhlh1upd.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0520_zpsn6wovay8.jpg.html)

Seems to be a lot of .049 and .065 EWT in this car...

[Krooser]

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0517_zpsycrvnss0.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0517_zpsycrvnss0.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0509_zpsfyiwwrst.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0509_zpsfyiwwrst.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0498_zpsj2xaxugt.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0498_zpsj2xaxugt.jpg.html)

I added a 2" tube so I can run a right side panhard bar with an old school spring in front set-up just to have something to play with...

[A ron]

You are gonna shut the chassis builders down showing the thickness of that 20 year old metal.

[powerslide]

Should of moved the RR rail in. Rubbing will be an issue once you give up on leafs

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Should of moved the RR rail in. Rubbing will be an issue once you give up on leafs

He moved it 2". See top photo.

[Krooser]

It HAS been fun.... better than remodeling a bathroom anyway.

Not done but getting there... still have a couple bars to replace and a little final welding and grinding. I sure found out how important a CLEAN surface is when working on a powder coated chassis... any remaining paint seems to really contaminate a weld.

I'm going to replace the single shear 4 bar mount on the right side with a double shear set-up. Same number of holes and in the same place... got to keep it simple enough for an old man to understand.

Might install some buggy spring mounts just in case I can't figure out this space age technology 4 bar stuff...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0524_zpsl6naascl.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0524_zpsl6naascl.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0523_zpssk1drzwj.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0523_zpssk1drzwj.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0526_zpsmzxwi0ek.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0526_zpsmzxwi0ek.jpg.html)


Thought I might include a shot of my last pure stock... the rep from Miller came to my shop and ripped off the Miller stickers off my welder then left in a huff...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/ruff.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/ruff.jpg.html)

[a25rjr]

It HAS been fun.... better than remodeling a bathroom anyway.

Not done but getting there... still have a couple bars to replace and a little final welding and grinding. I sure found out how important a CLEAN surface is when working on a powder coated chassis... any remaining paint seems to really contaminate a weld.

I'm going to replace the single shear 4 bar mount on the right side with a double shear set-up. Same number of holes and in the same place... got to keep it simple enough for an old man to understand.

Might install some buggy spring mounts just in case I can't figure out this space age technology 4 bar stuff...
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0524_zpsl6naascl.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0524_zpsl6naascl.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0523_zpssk1drzwj.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0523_zpssk1drzwj.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0526_zpsmzxwi0ek.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0526_zpsmzxwi0ek.jpg.html)


Thought I might include a shot of my last pure stock... the rep from Miller came to my shop and ripped off the Miller stickers off my welder then left in a huff...

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/ruff.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/ruff.jpg.html)
Looks good Krooser! In case anyone hasn't mentioned it, the RF frame rail will most likely hit the track, under that first down bar. You wont have to totally move it, just cut out what hits and brace it back up!

[RacerX10]

Hope he goes out and wears everybody out with this thing .. love stuff like this :)

[Krooser]

I'm going to put an older set-up in it so maybe the car won't lean so much... or I'll bolt my old GF to the left rail... that should balance things out.

Racerx10... I just hope I don't wear out the wrecker!

[a25rjr]

I'm going to put an older set-up in it so maybe the car won't lean so much... or I'll bolt my old GF to the left rail... that should balance things out.

Racerx10... I just hope I don't wear out the wrecker!

LOL....I thought that was reserved for the ex!.......or is that under the tire!

[langdonracing48]

You're doing a great job! Looks like a fun build! Keep us updated if you can. Love stuff like this!

[Krooser]

Had three shocks rebuilt/revalved @ Right Foot performance over in Appleton, WI... still need to pick up a few more. I have a line on some more $20.00 specials.

Also had the three springs that came on the car rated to use as spares. The rusty old Carerra came in @ 550 lbs. ... it was on the LF. The rear has a no-name 180# on the LR and a classic Bemco on the RR @ 220#'s.

Maybe I can sell these as collectors items...

And I got a nice Milwaukee grinder for $20.00 at the pawn shop... a guy really should have three ready to go with different abrasives already loaded and ready to work. Plus a couple new 4 bar brackets to replace the one I destroyed with my torch.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0528_zpste402yiy.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0528_zpste402yiy.jpg.html)

[a25rjr]

Had three shocks rebuilt/revalved @ Right Foot performance over in Appleton, WI... still need to pick up a few more. I have a line on some more $20.00 specials.

Also had the three springs that came on the car rated to use as spares. The rusty old Carerra came in @ 550 lbs. ... it was on the LF. The rear has a no-name 180# on the LR and a classic Bemco on the RR @ 220#'s.

Maybe I can sell these as collectors items...

And I got a nice Milwaukee grinder for $20.00 at the pawn shop... a guy really should have three ready to go with different abrasives already loaded and ready to work. Plus a couple new 4 bar brackets to replace the one I destroyed with my torch.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0528_zpste402yiy.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0528_zpste402yiy.jpg.html)

You might want to think about getting the 4 link brackets with 1/2" holes.

I heard that you got Richards and Rumley....trembling! LOL

[Krooser]

Trembling? I bet they pick up a Depends sponsor by mid season!

Those brackets have 5/8" holes... same as original. I'm just wondering how far apart I should space them since I don't have a reference point. Interference fit with the rods ends? Or use a spacer?

FYI... I'm keeping all the super secret mods to myself... let Kevin figure out for himself how to keep me off of the front page of DoD...

[RCJ]

I bought one of those sight unseen years ago.It was listed as a combo car,I'm thinking swingarm/4 bar not leaf/4bar.We used the brackets from southwest speed that has the upper and lower mounts in them.16" lower bar 18" upper.We mounted everything with a tape measure and "yeah that looks good"lol.The car was very good on bull rings and was always faster if you forgot about trying to make it hikeup and just made it drive good.

[95shaw]

Spacing depends on lateral movement of rearend. Which depends on angle/length of j bar/panhard bar. You don't want rods/ends hitting the mount and causing binds. If you use 5/8 heims to go with the holes in those plates, the spacers are hard to hold altogether when moving bars. I use 3/4 rods/heims on my 3 link with 5/8 spacers stepped to fit ends.

Nice job.
A few years back I updated brackets on my 95 shaw late model. my favorite car. Hence my user name.

[Krooser]

Thanks RCJ and 95 shaw...

[let-r-eat]

I would love to see everyone building this way. I hate the buyitandraceit stuff. I would love to see a CLASSIC latemodel class with chassis older than 10 years or so. No raised frame rails allowed....LOL

[Krooser]

Where's the like button?

[Krooser]

When setting up the rear suspension do you set the bar lengths the same right to left then adjust as needed? I'm about ready to replace the heim joints on the rear and I need to know the correct way to start...

Thanks.

[TheJet-09]

A number of things to consider but much will depend on the mounts and their location. I know you have/are changing yours but each mount will have a specific arc it was built for, such as a 17.5" link on the top for a Smackdown. The chassis itself may have lead/trail built in depending on where the mounts are attached. See if the mounts you bought are for a specific length link. Measure from your motor plate back to where the mounts are to see if they are square. Keep your wheelbase rule in the back of your mind and remember that the shorter the link the steeper the arc, which is to say the greater the change in wheelbase and birdcage indexing through bump/rebound. Hope that makes some sense.

[Krooser]

TheJet-09... Thanks for the info. I'll measure back from the motor plate and see if there's any lead built in. I don't want to change anything just keep it as it was originally built. The four bar brackets i bought match what came with the chassis.

SCD... Money should never be a factor as to whether you can race or not. If all you can afford are beaters so be it. Let the guys race... you don't need a $10,000 bat to play baseball. You shouldn't need a high dollar car to race. And those beaters still bring their fans to the grandstand...

[TheJet-09]

While I never really answered your question directly, I suppose the correct answer is "it depends." I am only familiar with MasterSbilt stuff and they are the same left to right (at least on a Smackdown...15.5" bottoms and 17.5" tops). But the mounts have trail built in (at least mine does/did, about 3/4" back on the right side). From there you can always lengthen the right (free up handling) or shorten it (tighten handling), and just the opposite on the left side (shorten to free up and lengthen to tighten). I believe Rocket has a rear suspension that uses 3 or 4 different length links and the LR is actually back 1/4" as compared to the RR at ride height (but don't quote me on that as I don't have any experience with one). I'm enjoying the updates on your progress so far!!!

[Krooser]

Not much to report the last week or so as I've been fixin' the wifes Jeep engine... film at 11.

[a25rjr]

You're a smart man.....happy wife, happy life!

Now, get back to work....Krooserumley! LOL

[Krooser]

Well I wouldn't say HAPPY. First I bought the Jeep 2 1/2 years ago and it's been on my lift all that time... just never found the time!

Second... she didn't find out about the stock car project until she came home from a month in Florida. Talk about a hot blonde...

[Krooser]

Another question.

The lift bar if fabbed to bolt directly to the QC without any heim joints. it has some damage from hitting the J bar... must have had the J bar way up on the pinion mount for this to happen. Anyway I'm going to repair this with a fresh chunk of DOM with a slight bend in it to clear any possible interference that may occur in the future.

I see no need for the heim ends... going to keep it as it was originally built. Does anyone see any problem with this?

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0572-2_zpsaiycinuq.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0572-2_zpsaiycinuq.jpg.html)

[95shaw]

Amount of hike and rear steer affect that.
Also heim joint lift arms help keep the lift arm springs more vertical. If your setup does not include hike you should be fine. With lot of hike could tangle with the driveshaft. Both ways have been run with hike, just have to keep this in mind.

[TheJet-09]

With heims you can also adjust your pinion angle without changing the angle of the lift bar (like parallel with the lower frame rails for example). Even with the heims you can still support it back to the rearend if you like, but I'm with 95shaw, I like to run my support link over to the right hand frame rail.

[RacerX10]

Better be careful with a tweaked / POS lift bar. If that thing comes from together, you are in a world of hurt all around.

[billetbirdcage]

Be sure to brace in front and behind that bend in the top bar because after repeated pulling on that tube it will try to straighten out the bend and eventually work harden the metal and crack there. If it breaks: broken driveshaft, trans, bell-housing, rear end, etc are all possibilities.

If you're running high HP/ open tires and tacky tracks, I'd replace the T/A at least every year just as a precaution. Obviously some are build better then others, but they do fail pretty often if they are old and have a lot of laps on them.

[Krooser]

Yeah i'm going to see if I can repair it. I have some DOM tubing and plan on triangulating the bracing to keep it intact. Our local rules have us on hard tires and the Saturday night venue I'll be at is a half mile that gets dry and slick unless mother nature does the watering. High hp? Now that's something I don't have to worry about...

As usual thank you for all of the help I'm getting from you guys... I really do appreciate it.

[zeroracing]

I broke one with a limited HP motor once, hard tire, slick track. Still drstroyed a bunch of parts. Make sure you way overdue it, or buy another one (I would not risk it).

[BigNilla]

I like this build keep the updates coming

[Krooser]

Thanks BN...

I pulled the RF hub off the spindle tonite... think the bearings were a little light on grease? Maybe they were just put in to allow the car to roll around the shop... don't know. The bearings look perfect but I have to clean up the rotors and rebuild the calipers.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0600_zpsqzqaorm5.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0600_zpsqzqaorm5.jpg.html)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/IMG_0601_zpsn1t8vh9a.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/IMG_0601_zpsn1t8vh9a.jpg.html)

[BigNilla]

I see progress

[Krooser]

SCD... that may make sense. When I did a brake job on my pick-up a few years ago my buddy was 'helping' me. I bought new rotors, installed the new bearing races then told my friend to grease the bearings and put the rotors on the truck.

Four months later I broke a RF spring and I pulled one rotor off before removing the spindle only to find ZERO grease on the bearings... it was amazing that there was not any bearing wear that I could see. Tow years later still no bearing problems so maybe just a light greasing is the answer.

[dfhotlm33c]

Quote The Jet09:

While I never really answered your question directly, I suppose the correct answer is "it depends." I am only familiar with MasterSbilt stuff and they are the same left to right (at least on a Smackdown...15.5" bottoms and 17.5" tops). But the mounts have trail built in (at least mine does/did, about 3/4" back on the right side). From there you can always lengthen the right (free up handling) or shorten it (tighten handling), and just the opposite on the left side (shorten to free up and lengthen to tighten). I believe Rocket has a rear suspension that uses 3 or 4 different length links and the LR is actually back 1/4" as compared to the RR at ride height (but don't quote me on that as I don't have any experience with one). I'm enjoying the updates on your progress so far!!!


Thank you thank you thank you!! I have an 02 wide/combo that hasn't been raced since 05, and has been garage kept the whole time. It's like a new car. I've put brand new stuff everywhere. I was just finishing setup the other day, and measured the rod lengths to be the same on both sides, as recommended by the setup book. When I measured from the rear end tube to the lower four bar mounting hole on both sides when at ride height, the LR was exactly 3/" shorter. Now I know why! I adjusted the LR bars so the distances matched, but now I think I will put them back, now that I know! Thanks!

[Krooser]

Gotta like another old MB getting back outthere

[Krooser]

Since this old post about my MB hasn't been updated recently I guess I'll just give you guys and update...

Not much to report. The chassis is still in the shop waiting for a bit more welding to de done. Got all new heims for the suspension and I bought a few shocks (still looking for a couple more). Just sold an older triple disc clutch set-up I got with my race motor... now I have most of the cash I need for the Bert bellhousing, flywheel and coupler I found. I also have a line on a Gen 1 Bert for a good price so any extra $$$ is being set aside for that.

Last month I finally picked up the motor I bought last fall. It was a fresh 383 that spun a rod bearing the first night out. After that the cam broke and dropped a chunk into the rotating assembly causing a little more havoc. The crank is repairable. I'm having the rods ground to fit some 6.2 Honda journal rods I have in stock. Going to see if I can lighten the crank a bit to match the lighter bob weight of the new rods and pistons. Got a good shop in Minnesota doing the crank work.

The motor is all iron... my local track gives me a 10" engine set-back with an IMCA spec motor. This thing started life with a solid roller and had a flat tappet solid cam in it when it broke. Looks like I'll have to check the valve springs rates to see if they will work with a new flat tappet cam.

Bought a nice set of Schoenfeld headers for $25.00 and between those and the ones that came with the race engine project I should be able to make them fit the old car.

I also found some pix of the old girl when it was new and during one of it's final seasons before it was put in storage.. both pix from Shawano Speedway.


MJ McBRide ... 1996 when new... built as a leaf car. Won so much there they started calling MJ "Black Bart" and the crew wore black cowboy hats to fit that image.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/MJ%20McBrides%20black%205%20Mastersbilt_zpsh1dhwxz t.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/MJ%20McBrides%20black%205%20Mastersbilt_zpsh1dhwxz t.jpg.html)




Gene Maas owned... now a four bar car. Not sure of the date but this was likely early 2000's before it was parked.
http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a385/krooser/Stock%20Car%20Album/mastersbilt%20when%20Gene%20Mass%20owned%20it_zpsi xorny38.jpg (http://s15.photobucket.com/user/krooser/media/Stock%20Car%20Album/mastersbilt%20when%20Gene%20Mass%20owned%20it_zpsi xorny38.jpg.html)

[MBR Performance]

I miss seeing the cars when they looked like the top one. I don't mind the way they look now but I don't like the aero dependency they have.

[Krooser]

I have the original style '83 Camaro roof that I will be using again... although in '83 I couldn't stand to see another Camaro!

[mopar92]

Why would anybody even entertain racing a car that rain has taken its toll on the cage etc. man that's old.

[Krooser]

It sat outside just a few months last year with the for sale sign on it.... otherwise it was under cover with the roof and decking on it. Had about 15 years of bird (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) on the roof...

Beside I race cheap or I don't race. Not being behind the wheel for another season isn't an option. While thousands of guys all over the country will be sitting in the grandstands making up excuses why they can't afford to race I'll be slinging mud and having a ball.

I would have had it trackside with it this year but I really needed to put a better engine together. That's what I'm working on right now. BTW... the engine is older than the car!

It's never been about how much $$$ you have... at least not for me.

[Matt49]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a seriously dangerous situation?

[MBR Performance]

If it has been garage kept it shouldn't matter. I've seen old cars cut apart and the tubing looks like new inside.

[CCHIEF]

Am I the only one that thinks this is a seriously dangerous situation? I agree 100%.

[CCHIEF]

If it has been garage kept it shouldn't matter. I've seen old cars cut apart and the tubing looks like new inside. And I have seen main rails and uprights off the main rails that were like tin foil when cut up.... or wrecked, how do you know? I have personally seen garage kept, externally ascetically beautiful cars that were 8 years old crack at the rf kick up from internal corrosion. I don't believe the main rail ends were closed in the old days either as I recall. Good luck!

[a25rjr]

And I have seen main rails and uprights off the main rails that were like tin foil when cut up.... or wrecked, how do you know? I have personally seen garage kept, externally ascetically beautiful cars that were 8 years old crack at the rf kick up from internal corrosion. I don't believe the main rail ends were closed in the old days either as I recall. Good luck!

Theres a machine called a sonic tester that tell you the wall thickness. Im pretty sure Nascar still uses them.

It appears to me, Krooser has made very professional repairs in his pics. If he selects the appropriate safety devices, I don't think he will have a problem. I applaud his effort to get back on the track!

[Krooser]

I was more concerned with the .049 tubing in the rear stub than the light dusting of surface rust I found when I started modifications... Look at the pix.

[Krooser]

Thought you guys would like a sample photo of the Ruggles scales I bought this week... should be into them for about $75.00 total. Thank God the "Safety Nazis" haven't taken over the specs on weights and measures!