Davenport's car

[moonshine]

Has anybody got a look at the Brumley device on the left rear ?

[Rayburnt1]

Has anybody got a look at the Brumley device on the left rear ?

I have. Still don't understand it. I have a few pictures, but out of respect I wasn't posting them.

[moonshine]

Think it adds more bar thrust?

[HuckleberryB4]

What is it?

[Rayburnt1]

It's a bracket attached to the birdcage, with a short little canister shock/with some bumpstops on it. I was at a Lucas race where he wrecked in qualifying, they took it off and put on the back up car.

[ALF401]

Where on the birdcage, is it connected? What is the other end attached to? Little more description of installation would be helpful.

[powerslide]

Man this sure sounds like an old bloomer trick. Look over here... not over here.

[TALON75]

It's a bracket attached to the birdcage, with a short little canister shock/with some bumpstops on it. I was at a Lucas race where he wrecked in qualifying, they took it off and put on the back up car.

Sounds like you're describing his travel limiter, they run a biscuit style one, nothing too trick about it.
Something like this?

http://pitstopusa.com/i-5081232-ppm-left-rear-travel-limiter.html

[Matt49]

As hard as JD runs a car into the corners, I can see where a cushioned travel limiter might help keep the LR from leaving the track on entry. But most people don't like them over a standard chain because it doesn't provide consistent travel. But then again a good driver can work around that. So who knows...

[Punisher88]

Sounds to me like he is talking about a shock in place of the left top rod. I've considered trying to get n 18 inch canister shock and trying to do it on my car. My shock guy said he's tried it and very hard to tune. Seems like it would be more consistent with bump stops over a spring though

[Rocket5353]

Could it be like a spring rod set up that they Run on the right side of NE modifieds?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Sounds to me like he is talking about a shock in place of the left top rod. I've considered trying to get n 18 inch canister shock and trying to do it on my car. My shock guy said he's tried it and very hard to tune. Seems like it would be more consistent with bump stops over a spring though

You may be right. My thought was to use bumps too.

[TALON75]

A spring rod doesn't need an extra bracket though. Penske and Bicknell both make shocks for the springrods, hit and miss if you ask me.

[billetbirdcage]

Billet grins

[TALON75]

.....??.....

[billetbirdcage]

Sorry figured more people might get it.

Smoke and mirrors! LOL

There are several things they are doing slightly different, but I have to say I really don't see any of them being that big of deal or some major advantage. It's a combo of things and they just have everything going for them right now.

Again going off what I know, could be some stuff I ain't aware of.

[powerslide]

Billet thinks like powerslide

[TALON75]

You're kinda right, they got something but the biggest deal is that the shock engineer(Kevin) is constantly making them better. They have a huge head start with a ton of data acquisition from racing not just practice laps and Kevin knows how to make that work. Not many out here can make that info work for them.

[FlatTire]

How do you record data during racing? Thought that was against the rules!

[hucktyson]

Because tech inspectors only check weight , body , tires and engine set back. Unless the car has been ripped apart at the track with independent observers I'm not sure why everyone is soooooo sure its legal ...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

How do you record data during racing? Thought that was against the rules!

Indeed it is! I have heard others being accused of using it though.

[7uptruckracer]

Data Acquisition systems aren't that hard to see but doesn't mean hes not using it in testing. You can take those systems and upload them onto the pull down rig and tell alot.

[25drtrkr]

Could it be the Penske dampner, like mbracer suggested, but with bumpstops instead of the mini spring?

[billetbirdcage]

Data Acquisition systems aren't that hard to see but doesn't mean hes not using it in testing. You can take those systems and upload them onto the pull down rig and tell alot.

It'd be pretty hard to pull off hiding it without a ton of work and it's not so much tech you have to fool as the other racers. Most of the time you get caught/found out cause of other racers and very rarely by the tech department.

That being said, I'm gonna go off tangent here to say a few things:

I know everyone wants to know the trick of the week or what others are doing, nothing wrong with that but you have to keep it in perspective. I just went and tested last weekend and tried several things, a couple of them are what davenport/bloomer are doing. Not going to give out much info here, but only one of them was worth anything on the clock. Granted different cars, drivers, tracks, and what not, but only one of them was worth a tenth and you could maybe argue a tenth and half.

I guess my point is how many people are even anywhere that close to the times either of those 2 guys run???? Before you get overly worried about some of this stuff, you need to be able to consistently run real close to their lap times on a consistent basis. So concentrating on the basic's and driving until you get fairly close will pay more dividends then most of this other stuff.

Just food for thought

[Matt49]

It'd be pretty hard to pull off hiding it without a ton of work and it's not so much tech you have to fool as the other racers. Most of the time you get caught/found out cause of other racers and very rarely by the tech department.

That being said, I'm gonna go off tangent here to say a few things:

I know everyone wants to know the trick of the week or what others are doing, nothing wrong with that but you have to keep it in perspective. I just went and tested last weekend and tried several things, a couple of them are what davenport/bloomer are doing. Not going to give out much info here, but only one of them was worth anything on the clock. Granted different cars, drivers, tracks, and what not, but only one of them was worth a tenth and you could maybe argue a tenth and half.

I guess my point is how many people are even anywhere that close to the times either of those 2 guys run???? Before you get overly worried about some of this stuff, you need to be able to consistently run real close to their lap times on a consistent basis. So concentrating on the basic's and driving until you get fairly close will pay more dividends then most of this other stuff.

Just food for thought

^^^
My nomination for post of the month.
We recently "tried some things" because I thought I was missing something...we did nothing but go backwards. We went back to basic setups and immediately came back toward the front. In my case, the driver needs a lot more work than the race car.

[moonshine]

I think we're getting off subject here. I don't want to copy it. I can't drive like Superman, he's been fast in everything he's ever been in. I'm just curious. They keep a lr on it all times and it's hard to see. It
has a pivot and looks like a spring of sorts with chain going to the birdcage or tube, I couldn't see. The car comes thru the pits already down on the right side. The only movement is the left hike and a little movement on the left front.

[Matt49]

I've considered trying a spring rod on the LR upper to take some of the extreme rigidness out of the LR when the car is fully hiked. My thinking behind this is not to necessarily "soften" the LR as that is obviously where we get so much dynamic wedge but to help the LR tire conform better than just the sidewall will allow on choppy surfaces.
Anybody else have thoughts on this or am I out on a limb?

[powerslide]

^^^
My nomination for post of the month.
We recently "tried some things" because I thought I was missing something...we did nothing but go backwards. We went back to basic setups and immediately came back toward the front. In my case, the driver needs a lot more work than the race car.


I've considered trying a spring rod on the LR upper to take some of the extreme rigidness out of the LR when the car is fully hiked. My thinking behind this is not to necessarily "soften" the LR as that is obviously where we get so much dynamic wedge but to help the LR tire conform better than just the sidewall will allow on choppy surfaces.
Anybody else have thoughts on this or am I out on a limb?

You already forgot about this post? I feel like "we" and "a lot" of teams the driver needs more work than the car

[PushinTheLimit]

Alot of us just don't have the time and money to go test "trick" setup stuff... the cheapest fix is to fix the driver.

[Matt49]

You already forgot about this post? I feel like "we" and "a lot" of teams the driver needs more work than the car

:-)
Now that shouldn't stop me from wanting to experiment though, right? :-)
The challenge with the last round of "testing" that we did was that I stuck with it too long. I went through a spell a few years ago where I would try something and if it didn't immediately work I would scrap the idea without massaging it at all. I was too quick to go back to what was comfortable. More recently, I over compensated and was stubbornly trying to make something work that just wasn't going to pan out. Part of the psychology of all this stuff is identifying when it's time to tap out. But one thing is for sure, you never learn if you don't try new stuff.
Guys like Bloomquist and Moyer didn't get where they are running the same stuff everybody else has on. That's not to say that there is some secret setup out there but there is ALWAYS room for improvement.

[powerslide]

Bloomquist is testing every time he doesn't win so I don't see why you shouldn't test!

[let-r-eat]

5% of the drivers will win 85% of the races. There is a reason for that. There is no setup going to change that statistic.

[TALON75]

"They say 60% of the world's statistics are made up right there on the spot, 82.4% of the people believe them wether they're accurate statistics or not. I don't know what you believe, but I do believe there's no doubt, I need a double shot of something 90 proof, I got to much to think about!" lol

https://youtu.be/8ZWmbWrMwqo

[Matt49]

There are three kinds of people in this world. Those who are good at math and those who aren't.

[Lizardracing]

Statisticians and politicians all lie. More appropriately, Lie by omission of all the facts.

Concerning data acquisitions systems, I follow USRA/USMTS and just this year outlawed in car cameras because they felt they were being used as data collecting devices and already expressed as illegal in the rulebook.

[Matt49]

Statisticians and politicians all lie. More appropriately, Lie by omission of all the facts.

Concerning data acquisitions systems, I follow USRA/USMTS and just this year outlawed in car cameras because they felt they were being used as data collecting devices and already expressed as illegal in the rulebook.

I've often wondered about this. A lot of "data" can be "acquired" from video of your suspension.

[save the racers]

How much rebound at 6'' of velocity do you need to knock Erb off the bottom?

[billetbirdcage]

How much rebound at 6'' of velocity do you need to knock Erb off the bottom?

It's not rebound you need just some throttle % and some cojones (Grin)




I've often wondered about this. A lot of "data" can be "acquired" from video of your suspension.

Another rule that will be hard to enforce

[25drtrkr]

How much rebound at 6'' of velocity do you need to knock Erb off the bottom?

$26,000 dollars worth.....knowing that 8 Hoosiers makes more traction than 4!

[zeroracing]

In response to billets comment that it would be another rule that's hard to enforce. It would also be a rule that hurts the small guy while helping the well funded teams. A go pro is cheap vs taking Time off work, renting a track, and doing actual testing with real data acquisition.

[andy16]

on davenports car< couldn it just be a brake floater w a bisquit on the end of it, would explain the separate braket and from a certain point of view can connect to the bcage (floater) use it like a 6th coil but on the bar instead of the arm? im convinced that's what is being described. unless I see it

[save the racers]

I walked by the car about 10 times at the showme.Looked like he had a little different front geometry,5degrees down on the rrl bar ,20 to 25 on the rru bar.Watching the car run they keep the l/f pin to the ground ,witch was surprising to me with the rrl bar at 5 degrees down.Watcing him ,bloomer and Owens run, they have talent most people don't have.

[SuperEight]

...Watcing him ,bloomer and Owens run, they have talent most people don't have.
This statement covers 98% of whats being discussed and the situation with Erb and the $28K is best answered with physics. Having watched Davenport drive for several years I believe him to be a very talented driver and not an intentionally dirty one. He does take chances and can at times be overly aggressive, but doing those things, combined with his talent is what got him to where he is today. I think the deal with Erb was more of a miscalculation by a driver running at the very limit of control and simply ended up with no room or any place to go other than a door slam. To me it is the poor opposite of what Josh Richards did to Casey Roberts back at Screven, where he intentionally drove through the infield and across Casey's nose. I think Davenport thought Erb was gonna run higher and dove low only to see Erb go low as well and they ran outta room.

[Krooser]

WISSOTA oulawed cameras anywhere except on the decklid... one reason was the cost of the Go-Pro equipment. My son's mod has a $59.00 Amazon-sold camera that works as good as the pricey ones. Another stupid rule...

[wismadman]

I did have a camera in my car back in 2000. Back in that day everyone was 3 wheeling the cars. It all takes money and time to test and learn something that is faster than the rest. But most of us don't do it enuff to be consistent. Like bowling i'd like to be better but bowling once every to weeks don't get the job done. Just like Traction Control, you can just put it in and kick everyones butt. You need to adjust the driver and the chassis for it to work. Time and money test test test. Than you look at the policing of the rules. They don't check your shocks or the 4 bars or for cameras or in the drivers compartment for TC or weight jacks. Once it turns into nascar i'll be moving on.