Bloomer quotes from DoD

[cutman]

“So without the technology that they’ve been taking advantage of to develop what they’re doing … we should’ve just stuck with what we were doing. That’s what we did at Nebraska"

“We’re gonna stop the press here temporarily and just get back to racing with what we know until we have an opportunity to do some more testing that gives us a way of downloading a final product of the test.”

Reading between the lines, I think you can figure out what people think Rumley/Davenport have done this year. Keywords- technology/downloading.

[t.nie]

Nothing wrong with that. It was only a matter of time before people with money brought telemetry to the DLM world and started getting an advantage from testing with sensors all over the car to see what's really going on. Do any of the sanctions have rules against guys testing with that level of technology? And if so, it doesn't cost a fortune to build your own test track with some high fences and do your testing in private, if someone is really determined to move the bar above everyone else.

[cutman]

I don't think there is anything wrong with it other than driving up costs to be able to compete. I also don't see any way it could be against rules in testing. Testing is done on your own time. But I did hear that they were using this at the races earlier in the year.

[rc24]

cubic bucks do help. Its just going to separate the field even more and you will see fewer and fewer cars.

[zyoung25]

So I guess Bloomquist don't use race note?

[shaferz]

So wait, now K&L is being faulted by some folks here because they are racing within the bounds of the rules and using actual data to help them?

Maybe we should just go back to pedal cars and handing out lollipops to the winners?

[cutman]

I don't recall faulting anyone, I am a big superman fan btw

[RoundNrOUND]

Data acquisition or telemetry has been used for years, far before now on a dirt late model. For a matter of fact I've seen data acquisition on a car during a race more than once and we know that's not within the rules. Pull down rigs, chassis shakers, chassis dynos and pull up rigs are all legal. Here's the difference, you can have all the date you want but if you can't apply that information you've gathered then it might do more harm than good. The unique thing about Rumley is he's a rare case of being an engineer and having an open mind, that's not very common. Engineers are almost always black and white, he sees the grey area and if I was everyone else I'd be a little scared about that.

[cutman]

Data acquisition or telemetry has been used for years, far before now on a dirt late model. For a matter of fact I've seen data acquisition on a car during a race more than once and we know that's not within the rules. Pull down rigs, chassis shakers, chassis dynos and pull up rigs are all legal. Here's the difference, you can have all the date you want but if you can't apply that information you've gathered then it might do more harm than good. The unique thing about Rumley is he's a rare case of being an engineer and having an open mind, that's not very common. Engineers are almost always black and white, he sees the grey area and if I was everyone else I'd be a little scared about that.

Couldn't agree more about Rumley. Paired up with JD, they may be on top for a good while.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

So wait, now K&L is being faulted by some folks here because they are racing within the bounds of the rules and using actual data to help them?

Maybe we should just go back to pedal cars and handing out lollipops to the winners?

I would only fault them for telemetry use during races. The rest just stinks for the little guy.

[dalemcfan]

Where is this on DoD? I can't find it.

[B_K]

Little guy? Look who he hes been been beating. Oh well they all get caught eventually! Scott knows how that works.


He knows about data acquisition also. I guess he just needs someone better reading it. It's not a new thing, but it's getting practiced a little more now though.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Little guy? Look who he hes been been beating. Oh well they all get caught eventually! Scott knows how that works.

I am the little guy. Many others on here are too!

[RoundNrOUND]

I've seen data acquisition on Scott's car during a race, he's not the only one.

[Highside Hustler25]

I've seen data acquisition on Scott's car during a race, he's not the only one.

Not sure about Lucas series but I know for sure that's a no no for UMP

[Bubstr]

Accelerometers are nothing new. Engineering is not set in stone, only the laws of Physics are. The Engineer just applies those laws to the best possible outcome. A lot of the data, that some believe only comes from data acquisition can be found on the garage floor. What can't be found is the timing of these force vectors. It used to be the seat of the pants feel was good enough, and still trumps data acquisition in many cases. There is nothing new under the Sun. It's just that Davenport and crew are doing it better than the rest right now.

I just don't understand, how someone would think they are cheating, when they have a giant spotlight on them, being at the top of their game in Late Models. If there is enough pride to win these many races, there would certainly be enough to avoid possible embarrassment of being caught cheating.

[B_K]

Accelerometers are nothing new. Engineering is not set in stone, only the laws of Physics are. The Engineer just applies those laws to the best possible outcome. A lot of the data, that some believe only comes from data acquisition can be found on the garage floor. What can't be found is the timing of these force vectors. It used to be the seat of the pants feel was good enough, and still trumps data acquisition in many cases. There is nothing new under the Sun. It's just that Davenport and crew are doing it better than the rest right now.

I just don't understand, how someone would think they are cheating, when they have a giant spotlight on them, being at the top of their game in Late Models. If there is enough pride to win these many races, there would certainly be enough to avoid possible embarrassment of being caught cheating.

Good post

If that's "cheating", then about 1/2 (at least) of the Lucas regulars are all cheaters.

[RoundNrOUND]

Highside Hustle it was at a UMP show. Either they didn't see it or they didn't do anything about it.

[TMaCiLLiNi39]

Well Bub I agree but look at all the teams from NASCAR to this one, DLMR... When ya take it upon yourself to go against the rules ya better be ready for grand awakening when ya get caught, and I think guys are willing to take that chance today... Not a good way to do business, but it's happening as we speak sir. And you know better then I it's been going on for YEARS!!! Good Day!!

But they haven't used it during a race... They just use it during practice and testing... It's not cheating at all. Data Gathering happens in all forms of Motorsports... Go to a Power-I Mini Sprint race and walk through the pits.... Every one of them uses it...

Scott's just salty his ego won't allow him to buy the right program... Scott believes he is a god and can overcome anything, including an engineer and technology...

[cutman]

I did hear that they were told to unplug it at a Lucas race at the beginning of the year. I didn't start this post to suggest cheating was going on, but 1. Point out that they are doing it better if others are doing it and 2. Learn more about it. Bloomers quotes kinda state that he isn't as good at figuring all the data out

[UMPDream]

But they haven't used it during a race... They just use it during practice and testing... It's not cheating at all. Data Gathering happens in all forms of Motorsports... Go to a Power-I Mini Sprint race and walk through the pits.... Every one of them uses it...

Scott's just salty his ego won't allow him to buy the right program... Scott believes he is a god and can overcome anything, including an engineer and technology...

Scott is one of the best if not The Best when it comes to the feel of a dirt late model. He and Moyer have had that gift for their entire careers. Scott was on to something big at the end of last year and it was taken away because of the $$$ he was making. His testing (and the manufacturers of the products) were put into action on the track and the only difference now as opposed to then is that Rumley's innovation has been done on a computer screen that isn't riding around with the race car. It's a good run for those guys but time and time again, I see JD mess up lap after lap and still pull away. Aside from the sport being out of control when it comes to innovation and expense, the next step is for Scott to own his own race track so he can test non-stop. Guess what happens then? Rumley is point blank using technology to his advantage in which he should!! It's a shame though because the expense of all of that is over the top.

[25drtrkr]

But they haven't used it during a race... They just use it during practice and testing... It's not cheating at all. Data Gathering happens in all forms of Motorsports... Go to a Power-I Mini Sprint race and walk through the pits.... Every one of them uses it...

Scott's just salty his ego won't allow him to buy the right program... Scott believes he is a god and can overcome anything, including an engineer and technology...

I'm 99% sure Bloomer has an engineering degree. He claimed that in a magazine article, years ago!

[Crossbones]

This is nothing new, I remember seeing software telemetry products being advertised in dirt magazines/papers in the late 1990s. Though I am sure they have advanced since then. I believe the difference with Davenport is Rumley can read the data better.lol Bloomquist, Moyer etc. probably can't incorporate what they are looking at with what they can feel.

[Necrosis]

Holy He!l, you guys act like this data is reported in Sanskrit, and that only an engineering degree allows you to perform the translation. Degree or not, Rumley is smart. Scott is smart. Barry Wright is smart. It boils down to being able to conceptualize the phyical forces and how they interrelate to the tires and the "dumb hunk of steel". That, and HARD WORK. The data is easy to UNDERSTAND, but it is difficult to APPLY. You have to know WHAT to measure, first off, and that screws up 90% of racers right off the bat. GIGO. Garbage In, Garbage Out.

[NormP]

I'm glad to see it. The more data, the more guys learn about their cars. The more they learn, the more they can do with their cars, as Rumley/Davenport are proving. The more they do, the harder the other guys have to work to catch up. Increased level of competition is great.

One of the big reasons the top of the racing food chain, Formula 1, is so awesome is that they embrace the latest technology they can find. That in turn trickles down to the lower levels like Nascar or ARCA, then eventually to the dirt track. So then you see a legendary season like the one we get to watch JD and his team create.

[RoundNrOUND]

Kevin Rumley is incredibly smart at making a racecar fast off of the gathered data but he isn't the only one. You do realize the type of access Scott has to Sweet's engineers don't you? Randy Sweet, arguably the greatest mind when it comes to steering and front end technology there has ever been. The problem with Scott isn't that he can't drive or that he doesn't have the type of access to the "smart people", instead it's that he's about the hardest person you'll ever meet to work with. He's a micromanager and will not let people do there job. People are disposable to him, he's proven that time after time and to be honest I think the "smart people" have figured that out finally. If you were one of the "smart people" would you want to work for him?

[RoundNrOUND]

Fair enough, you are correct he has made a lot of money and history. Those days of that happening for him are getting fewer and fewer, and they will continue to do so if he doesn't change his ways. As someone who makes a living in this sport myself I'm just telling you what I've discussed with others that I trust and feel are on the top of their games, and that line to go work for Scott is extremely extremely short these days.

[Necrosis]

Kevin Rumley is incredibly smart at making a racecar fast off of the gathered data but he isn't the only one. You do realize the type of access Scott has to Sweet's engineers don't you? Randy Sweet, arguably the greatest mind when it comes to steering and front end technology there has ever been. The problem with Scott isn't that he can't drive or that he doesn't have the type of access to the "smart people", instead it's that he's about the hardest person you'll ever meet to work with. He's a micromanager and will not let people do there job. People are disposable to him, he's proven that time after time and to be honest I think the "smart people" have figured that out finally. If you were one of the "smart people" would you want to work for him?I'm guessing you're an ex-employee, and maybe the ex tire guy/rig driver? Scott knows exactly what he's doing, and you cant argue with success. There is a reason it's called "Planet Zero"... It's out of this world. In an awesome way.

[RoundNrOUND]

I've never personally worked for Scott, I do however know the guy I believe you are referring to though.

[RoundNrOUND]

Correct I've only gotten one end of the story from the 5-6 people that I talk to regularly and 2-3 that I've worked hands on with that have worked for him. Either way it doesn't really matter I guess. The Scott lovers will always love him and the haters will always hate him, which isn't a bad thing because who would take his spot? If I'm being misunderstood I want to clarify, I don't hate Scott Bloomquist. I respect the man and everything he's ever accomplished but there's no amount of money that could get me to go work at "Planet Zero" even if it's out of this world.

[zyoung25]

So really you're only getting one end of the story, not saying it isn't credible tho...

I have no dog in this fight. All you have to do is watch Scott and his ways to notice he isn't the easiest person to work for. Just saying.....

[Kwd1253]

Does kevin work for longhorn or is he kind of sub contracted to them? If he works for longhorn shouldnt he give all the data to longhorn so they can give that data to other drivers like moyer jr, randy, casey ect. If kevin is giving full data to longhorn and longhorn just keeping it for jd. that pretty (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)ty in my book! But i dont know this answers tho. Some yall can dig up some good info on stuff like this.

[Kwd1253]

Well said on that last part blackford.. we cant all get along ;)

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I'm glad to see it. The more data, the more guys learn about their cars. The more they learn, the more they can do with their cars, as Rumley/Davenport are proving. The more they do, the harder the other guys have to work to catch up. Increased level of competition is great.

One of the big reasons the top of the racing food chain, Formula 1, is so awesome is that they embrace the latest technology they can find. That in turn trickles down to the lower levels like Nascar or ARCA, then eventually to the dirt track. So then you see a legendary season like the one we get to watch JD and his team create.

Honestly, that is why I hate formula 1. Driver means little and usually there is little parity.

[Necrosis]

Honestly, that is why I hate formula 1. Driver means little and usually there is little parity.Driver means a ton in F1! And RoundNrOUND, you said no amount of money would get you to work for Scott? Good, that's the starting pay! (J/K)

[drano]

This type of technology has been around for a while and it is coming harder than ever to the dirt late model world and me personally I dread seeing it come all it will do is sky rocket prices like never before JMO.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Driver means a ton in F1! And RoundNrOUND, you said no amount of money would get you to work for Scott? Good, that's the starting pay! (J/K)

It means I can't do it, but there are plenty on that level that need only be in the right car.

[t3r3e3]

Driver means a ton in F1! And RoundNrOUND, you said no amount of money would get you to work for Scott? Good, that's the starting pay! (J/K)

I dunno about F1 and the driver. Fernando Alonso is considered by many to be the top pure driving talent in F1. Problem is Ferrari is light years behind Mercedes, so Hamilton and Rosberg run circles around Alonso and everyone else. F1 is most heavily influenced by technological advances, and has been since the early 90's. Ayrton Senna, considered by many to be the best pure driving talent of the past 40 years, couldn't win with Williams, and absolutely dominated with McClaren. Look a few years back when Red Bull had the trick wing technology, and Vettel and Weber owned F1. Where is Red Bull now?

[RoundNrOUND]

Well then Necrosis that makes my decision even easier doesn't it.

[Necrosis]

I dunno about F1 and the driver. Fernando Alonso is considered by many to be the top pure driving talent in F1. Problem is Ferrari is light years behind Mercedes, so Hamilton and Rosberg run circles around Alonso and everyone else. F1 is most heavily influenced by technological advances, and has been since the early 90's. Ayrton Senna, considered by many to be the best pure driving talent of the past 40 years, couldn't win with Williams, and absolutely dominated with McClaren. Look a few years back when Red Bull had the trick wing technology, and Vettel and Weber owned F1. Where is Red Bull now?I totally agree with you. However, take Vettel and Weber as an example. Given there was a team favorite, Vettel was usually a few tenths quicker than Weber. When Rubens and MikeyShu were running together, it was the same deal. Also, you need an excellent driver to help you apply the engineering advancements. I've driven an F2000, and my God man, it's stupid, stupid fast. You have to be able to ignore your body's dynamic equilibrium threshold, as "seat of the pants feel" will put you in a wall. F1 racing takes a special kind of person, it's hard to describe.

[drano]

If this is the break out year of technology in dirt racing with this run the Rumleys are on than you can kiss dirt racing as we have known it of the past good bye, you will no longer need a good mechanic they will be searching for engineers, the drivers will become glorified jockeys every thing will become very generic you will have basically have nascar on dirt, trust me I was involved in nascar at one time before the engineers took over back when it was more man and machine and the evolution has ruined the sport in my eyes and I would really hate to see that happen to dirt racing but I guess it is inevitably but it will be sad.

[FlatTire]

Yes the engineering will infiltrate dirt late model racing in an increasing manner, but somebody will have to pay for it! Rumley has said he was going to need something to replace his engineers salary at his previous job and he will be looking. The salary he is getting paid as a consultant is much less.

[deez lug nuts]

Yes the engineering will infiltrate dirt late model racing in an increasing manner, but somebody will have to pay for it! Rumley has said he was going to need something to replace his engineers salary at his previous job and he will be looking. The salary he is getting paid as a consultant is much less.


He could Rocket into a high paying job where his race engineering skills would be a game changer. :cool:

[UMPDream]

I'm glad to see it. The more data, the more guys learn about their cars. The more they learn, the more they can do with their cars, as Rumley/Davenport are proving. The more they do, the harder the other guys have to work to catch up. Increased level of competition is great.

One of the big reasons the top of the racing food chain, Formula 1, is so awesome is that they embrace the latest technology they can find. That in turn trickles down to the lower levels like Nascar or ARCA, then eventually to the dirt track. So then you see a legendary season like the one we get to watch JD and his team create.

NormP, all that you are saying is correct and so true except for one HUGE problem. The more they "learn", the more it cost everyone out here trying to race a dirt late model. All of this "technology" to race for $10k, the same $10k being paid in 1990. $5k shocks, $5k dyno's, $5k devices to tell you force loads on a spring. I guess every team needs a shaker next? For the $3k-4k higher paid local show, no one can afford this. We were ALL worried so much about tires that have changed what $30 each? How about the items I mentioned above. It's really out of hand. The most profitable business in all of Dirt Late Models has to be Dirt on Dirt. The racers themselves make the least.

[billetbirdcage]

He could Rocket into a high paying job where his race engineering skills would be a game changer. :cool:

I see what you did there, too funny and privy to inside info, lol.

[NY DIRT]

NormP, all that you are saying is correct and so true except for one HUGE problem. The more they "learn", the more it cost everyone out here trying to race a dirt late model. All of this "technology" to race for $10k, the same $10k being paid in 1990. $5k shocks, $5k dyno's, $5k devices to tell you force loads on a spring. I guess every team needs a shaker next? For the $3k-4k higher paid local show, no one can afford this. We were ALL worried so much about tires that have changed what $30 each? How about the items I mentioned above. It's really out of hand. The most profitable business in all of Dirt Late Models has to be Dirt on Dirt. The racers themselves make the least.

There is a huge difference between what was payed in 1990 compared to what is payed today.
Back then there was not as many $10k races as there are today. Today you can run for at least $10k on a weekly basis and many times there are more then one to choose from on the same date
The local tracks do not have to have the same rules as the touring series.

Let the touring series be something special and if you can not afford to run one of these high priced exotic beast, run at your local tracks that do not allow all of the high priced rules...

[drano]

There is a huge difference between what was payed in 1990 compared to what is payed today.
Back then there was not as many $10k races as there are today. Today you can run for at least $10k on a weekly basis and many times there are more then one to choose from on the same date
The local tracks do not have to have the same rules as the touring series.

Let the touring series be something special and if you can not afford to run one of these high priced exotic beast, run at your local tracks that do not allow all of the high priced rules...

It will filter down to the local tracks and if the touring series only run one of those exotic beasts when they come to town who will they run against the 10 to 12 regulars on the series.