Heavier RR spring for slick?!

[Dirtmod13]

So going through both of my manuals from the chassis builders ( warrior and rocket)Both say to raise rr spring from 225 to a 250 for more side bite. Wouldn't this loosen the car on the gas since rr is heavier than it would have been in a tacky track?

[Matt49]

So going through both of my manuals from the chassis builders ( warrior and rocket)Both say to raise rr spring from 225 to a 250 for more side bite. Wouldn't this loosen the car on the gas since rr is heavier than it would have been in a tacky track?

Stiffer RR will typically tighten off the gas handling and loosen on the gas handling. Works pretty well in heavy track conditions if you can also take some j-bar out to free up entry.

[Dirtmod13]

That's what I thought, but why would both builders say in their manuals to go heavier on rr for extreme slick conditions?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

That's what I thought, but why would both builders say in their manuals to go heavier on rr for extreme slick conditions?

If you don't have enough sidebite on entry, your lap is already blown. The spring will give that to you. A drag race setup don't win many super slick races.

[jrkracing54]

If you don't have enough sidebite on entry, your lap is already blown. The spring will give that to you. A drag race setup don't win many super slick races.

MasterSbilt will you marry me? UGH, I mean be my crew chief? http://www.4m.net/images/smilies/tongue.png John 1*

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I appreciate the thought, but I ain't the marrying kind! Lol

[TheJet-09]

In the slick, what are thoughts on taking angle out of the RR upper link and running a stiffer spring to compensate for the loss of indexing the RR birdcage during roll? It would take out a little roll steer (RR is not coming back as far) and could/would possibly provide a smoother suspension at the RR...maybe? Would also favor the LR more off the corner based on less drive angle at the RR?

[Dirtmod13]

I just ran both rights all the way down to bottom hole and softened rr and it was way tight on entry on the gas. Trying the heavier, maybe 250 might do it?...

[swartzman]

What track? That will come into play as well.. Maybe we can help even more on what some of the guys that are fast are running..

[3wheelinphotos]

A lot goes into RR spring selection on our cars....track and engine combo are huge. We go along with the same theory as the Masters fella said its going to create initial scotch on entry making the car tighter...it can hurt your exit so that's why we have guys make bar or shock adjustments first to help loose in the middle before making spring change from our std 225 rr spring

Give me a call sometime at the shop to help you adjust your car. Mike @ Warrior Race Cars & 1G Shock Service 865.573.2411

[TheJet-09]

Do you think angling the RR spring in at the top would help sidebite (roll rate) but not compromise getting off the corner (slightly softer ride rate)?

[25drtrkr]

Do you think angling the RR spring in at the top would help sidebite (roll rate) but not compromise getting off the corner (slightly softer ride rate)?

Yes, very common adj on the old Smack cars.

[95rayburn]

Does that work with all types of dirt late model rear suspension 4 bar z link swing arm giving it more side bite off throttle??

[Dirtmod13]

We ran a Bmod special this weekend and went from a 150 rr to a 175 and it was a lot better on entry. So then we went to a 200, even better. Was wishing we had a 225 to try. Went from. 200 to 225 last week in the late model and loved the way it could be driven into the corner

[swartzman]

It still depends on the track, we are running 275 and 300 on momentum banked tracks in the slick. But other places 225, 250..

[Dirtmod13]

Swartz , how big of track is it where u run 275?Haven't heard of that heavy but willing to try it.

[slmcrewchief99]

Our guys made a mistake Saturday night and put in a 325 and it was suppose to be a 225. I wasn't there but I watched the video. That thing was a hank to the center but pushed like a dozer on exit. LOL. And naturally that hurt drive when he did get it to turn. The track was bad dusty and hurt traction till about lap 20 and it cleaned off. Then the car got better but was still tight in the center. Track was also rutted up. (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) thing bounced like a pogo stick. Can't see how he ran 3rd but he got up on the wheel and did. I am sure spring rates that high on the RR have a place but not at JMS. lol
Just remember that for every action there is an equal or opposite reaction. So when you change the spring to help the car in 1 place it can take away from another. So you may have to do more to offset. Just get you a good baseline setup. Make small changes at the track and dial it in. Test somewhere if you can. That is by far the best way to explore multiple adjustments.
Wish us luck this weekend. I'm taking everyone in our crew glasses this weekend. Maybe the 325 will stay in the cabinet like it should. LOL

[Punisher88]

Why not leave the 325 and go up on lr spring to take drive away? Or raise the right top rod? If it was that good on entry why couldn't you adjust exit to make it better? You could be on to something.

[Matt49]

That big of a spring split in the rear has some pretty serious implications on rear roll center also. I would avoid that type of setup.

[Punisher88]

I know what my shock guy has me on and it is a larger split than that and it works very very well. And he is a very reputable builder.. which I am on a higher banked very momentum dedicated track.

[Matt49]

I know what my shock guy has me on and it is a larger split than that and it works very very well. And he is a very reputable builder.. which I am on a higher banked very momentum dedicated track.

Rear roll center to the right should work well in your situation and that's what you have if you have a big split with the RR being heavier. That will free the car on it's own (not taking the springs into account independently). It may not work as well on a flat stop-and-go track.

[Punisher88]

I doubt it will I will switch back to a more standard rear spring set up. But it certainly woke my car up for my normal Saturday night track.

[Punisher88]

To add to it though I was very surprised the one night that the track slowed down and the bottom cam in that I was able to really roll the bottom and still get the drive center off with the left rear even as slick as it was.

[Matt49]

To add to it though I was very surprised the one night that the track slowed down and the bottom cam in that I was able to really roll the bottom and still get the drive center off with the left rear even as slick as it was.

Yeah...I would also expect the RR to somewhat overpower the LR too much in slick conditions with that type of setup. But it sounds like you've found something pretty balanced. Were you taking out quite a bit of RF shock rebound when it went slick?

[7uptruckracer]

Sometimes its about momentum I mean look at Eldora they had no drive to speak of just carry entry and middle and pedal pedal pedal.

[Punisher88]

I did take 3 or 4 clicks out. Probably 7 clicks from full lock. But I also tied the left front shock down to 2 clicks from full lock.

[25drtrkr]

I know what my shock guy has me on and it is a larger split than that and it works very very well. And he is a very reputable builder.. which I am on a higher banked very momentum dedicated track.

Someone refresh my memory, but isn't that what O'neal stumbled on in 07 when he won all those Speedweek races. I was there for most of them, he could pick up the throttle 2-3 car lengths before anyone else.

[Matt49]

Sometimes its about momentum I mean look at Eldora they had no drive to speak of just carry entry and middle and pedal pedal pedal.

It was kind of interesting to watch some of the guys that tried to run the bottom before it came in. To your point, no forward bite at all and it looked like they were just wheel spinning.

[hucktyson]

There was nothing at all on the bottom in the late heats Saturday ... They talked about eldora not being top side dominate anymore but after last week I call BS

[Matt49]

Someone refresh my memory, but isn't that what O'neal stumbled on in 07 when he won all those Speedweek races. I was there for most of them, he could pick up the throttle 2-3 car lengths before anyone else.

Eastbay (at least back then) was a completely different animal. Not sure about setup but O'Neal told me that he drove that place like a sprint car. Back the corners up, spin the wheels to the cushion, then let the big motor eat. But I can see where a bigger RR spring would help with that.

[swartzman]

Another thing guys are getting on that works pretty d@mn good is a 225 with 2 spring rubbers in the center of the spring.

[swartzman]

I know everyone wants help, but somewhere along the line people who really want to get faster are going to have to go test.. Get yourself another car or 2 or 3 whatever it takes and go rent a track during the week, take you a handful of people with you that do not mind working and just go try stuff. Heck throw the kitchen sink at it, find out what it does for your car and driver.

[stock car driver]

I know everyone wants help, but somewhere along the line people who really want to get faster are going to have to go test.. Get yourself another car or 2 or 3 whatever it takes and go rent a track during the week, take you a handful of people with you that do not mind working and just go try stuff. Heck throw the kitchen sink at it, find out what it does for your car and driver.

Id start by asking your local track if you can hot lap after the races or possibly the next morning after the races. Never know if you don't ask. In fact it may be going on already and you don't know about it.

I stay at least half the race nights and practice the next day at my home track.

[swartzman]

Hey stockcardriver, that was a good piece of advice that would give people who needed and wanted track time. Plus if you have a track promoter who would let you get back on the track after the races, there's your race surface as close as you would get..