boggs incident at county line, what should have been done??

[pink floyd]

hoping bbqboy might chime in on this one since he was there. when the 99 car came onto the track out of nowhere and pushed boggs to the infield while he was leading, shouldn't the flagman have immediately thrown the caution flag?? the more I watch that video, the more aggravated I become that the track and or series officials just let it go giving Roberts the lead and ultimately the victory. any opinions on this??

[MadDad Racing]

I don't have DoD anymore so cant comment but The Last True Outlaw is a force to be reckoned with for sure...... OUTLAW being the keyword, can win with the best of the best at any given track...JMO...:)

[t3r3e3]

I don't have DoD anymore so cant comment but The Last True Outlaw is a force to be reckoned with for sure...... OUTLAW being the keyword, can win with the best of the best at any given track...JMO...:)

The whole deal was bizarre, and Boggs deserved to be p1ssed. That being said, he had a bunch of laps to run Roberts down and pass him. He never did.

[GEAR_HEAD]

What was Hardy thinking flying out of the pits in front of the entire field like that? That was a bonehead, selfish move that could have been much uglier. The caution absolutely should have been thrown immediately because Hardy was a danger to the entire field. I like Roberts but that was absolutely favoritism on the track's part and the series' part.

[mud duck]

After watching it, I agree something should have been done and the yellow thrown to reset the field. Hardy made a stupid move coming back out like that! If he would have just stayed high, it might not have been so bad. But, to turn immediately to the bottom and in front of the leader? Absolutely, a very stupid move!

[MadDad Racing]

The whole deal was bizarre, and Boggs deserved to be p1ssed. That being said, he had a bunch of laps to run Roberts down and pass him. He never did.

I wasn't there nor have I seen the video, but maybe the car just wasn't the same after the incident.... Maybe, I don't know...

[Boggsfan]

I was there and yes the yellow should have been thrown. The 99 car endangered several lives when he pulled back onto the track. Any smart driver knows not to pull back out under the green. I believe he did it on purpose to try and take Jackie out. The 99 had a tire go down and thought Jackie done it. However, it was the white 8 car that actually got into the 99. No one at the track could give a straight answer on why the yellow wasn't thrown. They all wanted to point fingers at each other.

[Barbecueboy]

I was in the hot pit area and missed the incident when 99 pulled back on to the track.......I can tell you that Jackie made a fantastic pass to get by the 101.....I can also tell you that they acted like true professionals after the race considering the circumstances.

Sure , Jackie was pissed.........I've read a lot of stuff over the years about the b4 , I was completely impressed by the way they handled themselves this past weekend, I'm a new big fan.

Oh, and that guy can wheel the hell out of it and the motor man don't do too bad either..........good guys, caught a bad break.......the whole thing was just bizarre.

I'm hoping that hardy was just confused about where to go and wasn't just trying to be a knucklehead.......hats off to the team from Grayson, first time ever at the track and made a bunch of new fans.......nice job guys.

[7uptruckracer]

It wasn't the 99 Fault where you coming into the track in turn 2 you can't see at all you go up hill and drop into the race track there was a turn marshall there that waved him into the race track. I've run there I don't like that entrance at all its dangerous they should make them come into turn 4. He was waved onto the track by the official. So blame the official if you want to blame anyone. I don't know if you're a lap down why you would return anyways but still as bad as it looked It wasn't malicious

[Barbecueboy]

Pretty sure they were all told to pit in the hot pit area, maybe the 99 just missed those instructions ...either way, good to know it wasn't malicious and tough break for him with the D8 incident/ flat too, he was rolling pretty good all weekend.


Sux for Jackie, but those guys are very cool and that pass he made to get the lead was nothing short of masterful.........was good to see he and Casey shake hands and give each other the thumbs up for the clean driving exhibition they both gave each other.

Nice job fellers.......

[lazermod3]

You can comment all you want,but here is what should have been done.

#1 Caution flag should have been thrown

#2 99 car D-QUED

#3 Bottom line is this,Track favoritism no doubt about it.

[flagone]

I can answer why the yellow wasn't thrown. Anyone that asked me got the answer.

I did not see the 99 car enter the track in turn 4. I was looking mid pack at a couple of cars that had made contact exiting turn 2. When I looked back to that corner the 101 had already passed for the lead. I thought the 99 was a lapped car and that the 4B had just got picked behind him. A caution would not be thrown for that reason in any racing series I am aware of. It was not until the next yellow flag came out (2 laps later for a separate incident) that I was informed by track officials that the 99 had re-entered the track in turn 4. There is no series rule against returning to the track. Not going to the hot pit however negated his courtesy laps. It would not have mattered who was leading or who was 2nd - in that split second with the information I had at the time - no one was stopped on the track and there was no debris - I didn't have cause to throw the yellow.

The 99 was sent off the track under the yellow as he re-entered against the directive of a track official to stop. Hardy contends that he was waved to go ahead. I am not sure if he misunderstood the directive in his haste to stay on the lead lap or what happened.

[DoubleZero]

I was there, too. And it seemed that everyone was caught off-guard. It was a strange situation because it involved the battle for the lead, and ultimately the race winner. They ran several laps after the 99 had pulled back out, before waving the caution, and re-aligning the field. I agree, that backstretch pit entrance is blind and should not be allowed during racing conditions. According to the race announcer, the 99 was DQ'd was because he left the track, and then re-entered, apparently a violation of the ULTIMATE rules.

[scrub_fan]

To my knowledge it was told to all drivers in the driver's meeting that if you go off the track and not to the hot pit area you were not allowed back on the track maybe he didn't go to the drivers meeting

[flagone]

I led the drivers meeting. The only information regarding the hot pit discussed was if they wanted courtesy laps for a flat tire they would have to go to the hot pit area in the infield. The was no rule to prevent anyone that had not been disqualified from re-entering.

[Barbecueboy]

You can comment all you want,but here is what should have been done.

#1 Caution flag should have been thrown

#2 99 car D-QUED

#3 Bottom line is this,Track favoritism no doubt about it.

I'll give you 1 and 2 maybe, but 3 isn't even close.......clearly you haven't had much dealings with the ultimate guys, they don't play like that.

Everybody involved at the track acted like professionals about it....( was just a missed split second call)......probably too much to ask that everybody on 4 m do the same.

I'm pretty sure everybody knows how I feel about the 101 team, it was fantastic watching them battle with the 4 b.........even in victory lane the 101 acknowledged that the outcome should have and could have been a little bit different had Jackie not gotten boogered up by the hardy re enter.

Would have been a perfect chance for the 4b to verbally burn down the place and rant and unprofessionally rave about how he was done dirty by the track and the ultimate guys.

And that never happened..............

[71PRPFan]

I hope this opens a lot of people's eyes around the country about all the bad rumors you hear about him. Seriously the nicest guy you will ever meet in the pits and on the track.

[Barbecueboy]

I hope this opens a lot of people's eyes around the country about all the bad rumors you hear about him. Seriously the nicest guy you will ever meet in the pits and on the track.

I'm 100% convinced of that..............of course, people say the exact same thing about me too, lol.

Kidding aside, what he didn't say or do after the incident on the track says as much about him/them as what he did say or do all weekend.

And not sure if I mentioned it or not, but dam guy is a freaking wheelman..........county line isn't the easiest place to get around your first time there.

[tsand]

Been going to dirt racing for 45 years seen the leader lose the race because of a stupid move by a lap car more times then I can count. Never seen a caution thrown. I'm sure boggs won a few races by lap cars getting in the way of the leader I'm sure he wasn't screaming for a caution then. If Casey was leading and a caution was thrown I'm sure people would be screaming favoritism. $hit happens on a race track some time it cost you sometime it benefits you. Look at Knoxville with Owens getting in the way of the leaders and changed the out come of the race.

[jog49]

The race director (Kelley Carlton) said above that he didn't see that particular moment in the race so I don't think anyone really wants the race dictated by hearsay, do you? A young driver, unfamiliar with the track, made a mistake and as tsand said, it's happened countless times. Boggs was unfortunate but it is what it is. The only thing that does sting is the comment that the track showed "favoritism". Who was this dunce?

[jlacey]

Again I havent seen any video, glad to see Casey get the win. Especially after running top 5 at Charlotte and breaking in the last 10 laps, not to mention a few wins/top 5s he got screwed on earlier in the year. At the same time I hate to see that happen to Boggs. Id be irate if I was in his shoes so I give him all the credit in the world for keeping his cool the way he did

[7uptruckracer]

Last time we ran an Ultimate race the Ultimate series had their own officials and they did their own policing and officiating not the track anyways.

[71PRPFan]

Is there a video outside of DoD? I let my sub run out :(

Just glad to see our local guy travel and have a good showing far from home with some stout competition

[Barbecueboy]

They would have made you proud........they done real good.

I'm going to be heading up your way to watch them a little more next year.

[Kwd1253]

ok hardy re-enter on track. some are saying hardy got in Boggs way on purpose. why would blame someone said they flagged him on the track. he got DQ, he would of said I did it so what if it was on purpose. so that don't add up. sounds like they guy flagged him on to the track didn't want take his fault and a mouth full from every one. 2nd I read from post on here about them being at driver meeting. saying no re-entry but directory of meeting said there was no rule on re-entering on the track if they wasn't DQ. so looks like y'all fell asleep at the meeting. so why was hardy DQ then? sounds like a bunch people f'ing a football at this race. so Boggs got screwed out first place maybe, any thing could happen on the last lap tho. hardy got DQ for what? also for ones asking why hardy came back on track, this no brainer. his first time there he wanted more laps to figure the track out.

[Aluminium Block]

Any accusations of favoritism are probably ridiculous. Do you think a series like Ultlimate that gets mediocre car counts really wants to chase off any winning drivers like Boggs to appease a series driver? Half their shows this year didn't even have full fields! Looking at their points, it looks like only 3 drivers followed the whole series. If they catered to just those 3 drivers they would be out of business in a flash!

[SuperEight]

hoping bbqboy might chime in on this one since he was there. when the 99 car came onto the track out of nowhere and pushed boggs to the infield while he was leading, shouldn't the flagman have immediately thrown the caution flag?? the more I watch that video, the more aggravated I become that the track and or series officials just let it go giving Roberts the lead and ultimately the victory. any opinions on this??

I like Casey, but what they did to Boggs was wrong. Now having said that I'm not sure he was gonna hang on for the win. Boggs made no contact with the #99 so he had no damage to hinder him and he was 1/2 straight behind at the end. Casey may have won anyway, but Boggs was done wrong absolutely by either the track or the series or both. JMO

[Barbecueboy]

Missing a call or making a mistake is a far cry from being purposely done wrong,..........and the favoritism cries, pfffffffffft............

[GEAR_HEAD]

Any accusations of favoritism are probably ridiculous. Do you think a series like Ultlimate that gets mediocre car counts really wants to chase off any winning drivers like Boggs to appease a series driver? Half their shows this year didn't even have full fields! Looking at their points, it looks like only 3 drivers followed the whole series. If they catered to just those 3 drivers they would be out of business in a flash!

How else can you explain how NOT ONE series or track official with a radio saw Hardy re-enter the track and instantly call for a caution? How did the flagman not see it and wave the yellow immediately? The only way to explain it is favortism.

[Boggsfan]

Boggs says that no matter what southern series he runs with it is going to cost him $5,000. That is whether it be the Ray Cook Or the Ultimate Late Model Series. When talking with a man that worked with the series he said they only had control of the inside of the track and no control of any calls being made.

[tsand]

If you read Kelly reply he states the 99 was dq because he inored the man running the back gate and entered the track against the direction of the official.

[Kwd1253]

How else can you explain how NOT ONE series or track official with a radio saw Hardy re-enter the track and instantly call for a caution? How did the flagman not see it and wave the yellow immediately? The only way to explain it is favortism.well for flag it's not hard miss a split sec thing like that. he watching the whole field special where guys racing hard in packs. he relies on track officials not guys on the track at the wrong time. but bring up good point on the radio thing tho, but at same time it's no different than a lap car on the track already getting in Boggs way, if you really want look st it. it bad racing deal that happen to Boggs. if it would happen to Casey while he was in 2nd place and hardy slow him down. the flag man would not throw the yellow nor you hear people say throw the yellow. it's a messed up racing deal, meeting should said zero re-enter from pit. it's just really bad racing deal, but can be avoided next time at that track. no re-entry from pit if you pull in only re-entry from hot pit.

[Barbecueboy]

[QUOTE=GEAR_HEAD;1967722]How else can you explain how NOT ONE series or track official with a radio saw Hardy re-enter the track and instantly call for a caution? How did the flagman not see it and wave the yellow immediately? The only way to explain it is favortism.[/QUOTE

There is definitely more than one way to explain it, but apparently only one way to understand it?????

And just curious?? You ever been to county line and seen , pitted or raced on the layout?

[SnakeX3]

I was sitting in the turn 4 grandstand and saw the whole thing unfold. I was shocked to see Hardy appear on the track, but it wasn't like he was tearing butt out onto it. It looked to me that he was trying to get to the hot pit, which is why he might have been driving down toward the bottom of the track rather than staying high. Boggs had no chance. Kudos to him for not T-boning Hardy.

The entire incident happened in what seemed like a split second. If I hadn't been watching Boggs and had the entrance to the track off 4 in my line of site, I'd have missed it. If I am a fan with nothing to do other than watch the race and I was caught off guard, then I can see how the flag man and race officials could have missed it if their eyes were elsewhere.

The caution that came out 2 laps later...well I don't recall seeing anything that would have brought one out. I was under the impressive (perhaps wrongly) that it was thrown to sort the mess out and later thought it was only to get Hardy off the track. When Boggs didn't get his position back (and he was gesturing) for the restart, I was like...WTF?

There were a lot more early cautions than the DoD video shows. There was a lot of beatin' and bangin', especially early on. I could easily see that after four cautions in 8 laps or whatever it was, that race officials were watching and waiting on the next one and would have had their eyes where the cars were bunched up...and that ain't where Jackie or Hardy were.

Did Jackie get screwed? Yup. Woulda, coulda, shoulda...but he did have like 40 laps to catch Casey again. Not sayin' Casey coulda caught him if Boggs had the clean air, but stuff happens in every race. And as far as bias goes, they were giving Jackie his props by mentioning him plenty before and during the mod race and the Super race. I find that to be a total joke.

I am a Casey fan. Rambo's the man. After that race I'm a Jackie Boggs fan too. Those guys know how to put on a show and despite all the BS, post race and in person from what I saw they were all cool with each other. I liked that. They put on a show for the fans...especially Jackie. I'll be back to see those boys, the Ultimate series and the racing at County Line every chance I get.

[W2Racing09]

To say there is any favoritism being displayed is incorrect. The ULTIMATE series is one of the most professionally run organizations in all of racing. It certainly was unfortunate for Boggs but I don't think there is any type of precedent to throw a yellow in that situation, and even if there were It sounds like nobody saw it. You can't always keep a close eye on 24 cars as the race director, once in awhile stuff will slip through the cracks.

[SnakeX3]

To say there is any favoritism being displayed is incorrect. The ULTIMATE series is one of the most professionally run organizations in all of racing. It certainly was unfortunate for Boggs but I don't think there is any type of precedent to throw a yellow in that situation, and even if there were It sounds like nobody saw it. You can't always keep a close eye on 24 cars as the race director, once in awhile stuff will slip through the cracks.

That was my point. If anything they were playing up that Boggs was there and he was doing double duty. It seemed silly to me that anyone would suggest any bias.

[W2Racing09]

That was my point. If anything they were playing up that Boggs was there and he was doing double duty. It seemed silly to me that anyone would suggest any bias.

My apologes I didn't mean to quote you when I responded.

Thanks,
Jeff

[dirtMAN007]

to say there is any favoritism being displayed is incorrect. The ultimate series is one of the most professionally run organizations in all of racing. It certainly was unfortunate for boggs but i don't think there is any type of precedent to throw a yellow in that situation, and even if there were it sounds like nobody saw it. You can't always keep a close eye on 24 cars as the race director, once in awhile stuff will slip through the cracks.

but then again you thought ben shelton was spot on with his article calling fans the "joke" !! I believe we as people who weren't in attendance should listen and learn from those who were !

[Ben Shelton]

Oh dirtMan007.... thanks for reminding me that for some folks reading comprehension can be a difficult concept to grasp.

- Ben

[dirtMAN007]

Oh dirtMan007.... thanks for reminding me that for some folks reading comprehension can be a difficult concept to grasp.

- Ben

Oh Ben thanks for reminding us that we are not all amused by your smoke and mirror tactics and can think and reason for ourselves !!!!

[swartzman]

The reason everyone acted like that with the 4b crew is because Jackie expects everyone with the car to act like professional's, so many people have the wrong idea of what Jackie is like until something like this happens and he reacts totally different than you expect.

[W2Racing09]

Oh Ben thanks for reminding us that we are not all amused by your smoke and mirror tactics and can think and reason for ourselves !!!!

You are the last person on this message board who should mention anything about thinking and reasoning.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[dirtMAN007]

Why? Because you reposted a story which you believed was correct only to find that most reasonable people on 4m completely disagree with ? So now you are butt hurt over the whole incident!!!!!

[Barbecueboy]

The reason everyone acted like that with the 4b crew is because Jackie expects everyone with the car to act like professional's, so many people have the wrong idea of what Jackie is like until something like this happens and he reacts totally different than you expect.

And some of them are just some real nice sumbitches in general..........being cool is hard to hide.

[TTS_JF]

who won the mod feature?

[Barbecueboy]

who won the mod feature?

Chris Arnold.......murdered em.

[manwplan]

What's lost in all of this, is this isn't the first time that Hardy has acted like a complete tool. He went as far as arguing with fans on Facebook after the fact.

[hipower17]

I'll give you 1 and 2 maybe, but 3 isn't even close.......clearly you haven't had much dealings with the ultimate guys, they don't play like that.

Everybody involved at the track acted like professionals about it....( was just a missed split second call)......probably too much to ask that everybody on 4 m do the same.

I'm pretty sure everybody knows how I feel about the 101 team, it was fantastic watching them battle with the 4 b.........even in victory lane the 101 acknowledged that the outcome should have and could have been a little bit different had Jackie not gotten boogered up by the hardy re enter.

Would have been a perfect chance for the 4b to verbally burn down the place and rant and unprofessionally rave about how he was done dirty by the track and the ultimate guys.

And that never happened.............. years ago i would say someone would of got there ass kick over this. he is older and wiser now.

[Barbecueboy]

years ago i would say someone would of got there ass kick over this. he is older and wiser now.

Aren't we all, lol????

[Barbecueboy]

What's lost in all of this, is this isn't the first time that Hardy has acted like a complete tool. He went as far as arguing with fans on Facebook after the fact.

Have also heard that too............I think he just messed up, clearly had he been malicious and prickish about it he would have toted an a ss whippin back home to Virginia with him.

Jackie wasn't even the one who tangled with him and cut his tire down.

No matter what, the racing was excellent as usual at county line and the fellowship and friendships cultivated there are strong as always.

[SnakeX3]

Have also heard that too............I think he just messed up, clearly had he been malicious and prickish about it he would have toted an a ss whippin back home to Virginia with him.

Jackie wasn't even the one who tangled with him and cut his tire down.

No matter what, the racing was excellent as usual at county line and the fellowship and friendships cultivated there are strong as always.

Do you know who cut his tire down because I didn't even see him leave the track. Since he was up front before it happened, I thought it might have been Boggs because he was pretty aggressive coming up through the field. That was just my guess at the time, but there were a lot of guys beatin' and bangin' off each other. Walker Arthur was up there in the mix too. Could have been anyone and I didn't see Hardy make contact with any of them myself.

And just a follow up comment on Arnold's win...he was really cool giving away his door. I didn't see who got it, but they said it was someone with a neck injury.

[Barbecueboy]

Do you know who cut his tire down because I didn't even see him leave the track. Since he was up front before it happened, I thought it might have been Boggs because he was pretty aggressive coming up through the field. That was just my guess at the time, but there were a lot of guys beatin' and bangin' off each other. Walker Arthur was up there in the mix too. Could have been anyone and I didn't see Hardy make contact with any of them myself.

And just a follow up comment on Arnold's win...he was really cool giving away his door. I didn't see who got it, but they said it was someone with a neck injury.

Hardy got tangled up with d8 Mitchell is what got his tire..........Chris Arnold is a very cool guy too, all those guys from up that way seem to have their people skills in order.

[Barbecueboy]

Do you know who cut his tire down because I didn't even see him leave the track. Since he was up front before it happened, I thought it might have been Boggs because he was pretty aggressive coming up through the field. That was just my guess at the time, but there were a lot of guys beatin' and bangin' off each other. Walker Arthur was up there in the mix too. Could have been anyone and I didn't see Hardy make contact with any of them myself.

And just a follow up comment on Arnold's win...he was really cool giving away his door. I didn't see who got it, but they said it was someone with a neck injury.

He left the track between 1 and 2 and I didn't see him until a few laps later when he came back on the track in 4...........I figured he was done when I saw him go out in two and not come down to the hot pit.

[SnakeX3]

Hardy got tangled up with d8 Mitchell is what got his tire..........Chris Arnold is a very cool guy too, all those guys from up that way seem to have their people skills in order.

Thanks! That makes sense. After I posted the question I went back and looked at the feature and recap video again. The way the feature video was edited I couldn't see back far enough in the field to tell if the 99 was on the track when Boggs got away from Casey, but in the recap footage you could see back to about 8th and he wasn't out there. Next time around he reappeared. ;)

[swartzman]

I am sure somewhere down the line they will be at the same track racing together again..