I wonder if they will find him guilty?

[Nasty55]

Jury deliberates in criminal trial of WV coal mine explosion that killed 29 men.

CHARLESTON, W.Va. -
The jury has been sent to deliberate in the trial of ex-Massey Energy CEO Don Blankenship on charges of violating mine safety laws.

Jurors were sent out of the federal courtroom late Tuesday afternoon in Charleston, West Virginia.

During a final closing rebuttal argument, prosecutors asked jurors to picture themselves working in Upper Big Branch Mine, plagued by safety deficiencies and insufficient staff.

Blankenship is accused of putting profits ahead of safety in the years before an explosion killed 29 men at the mine in southern West Virginia in 2010.

The defense says prosecutors presented no evidence that Blankenship was involved in a criminal conspiracy.

[swartzman]

When the defense does not present one person to testify in their behalf, it pretty much tells me the prosecution did not do to much to show Don B. as being guilty. Guess we'll all know how the jurors see it in the near future..

[Nasty55]

When the defense does not present one person to testify in their behalf, it pretty much tells me the prosecution did not do to much to show Don B. as being guilty. Guess we'll all know how the jurors see it in the near future..



I was pretty much thinking the same thing swartzman.... the prosecution supposedly had all of this evidence and then all of a sudden they have nothing.... i say he walks a free man.... the sad part of this whole deal is we lost one of the up and coming late model drivers in John Blankenship because of his dads stupidity....

[kidrock]

The really sad part is that 29 people lost their lives no matter the circumstances.

[oldfart50]

The really sad part is that 29 people lost their lives no matter the circumstances. 100% correct

[Nasty55]

The really sad part is that 29 people lost their lives no matter the circumstances.

I agree 100% kid I didn't mean any disrespect to the deceased at all...

[kidrock]

I agree 100% kid I didn't mean any disrespect to the deceased at all...

None taken and knew you didn't. Sorry if you thought I thought because I didn't. I have seen enough of your post to know that.

[00Hdmn]

First of all, my prayers go out to all the families that lost loved ones in this horrible accident. My question is with all of the federal inspectors these days and regulations by our wonderful government, why are they not responsible for this tragity? Couldn't they have just shut the mine down until all problems were fixed? Just doesn't make sense to me.

[useddirt]

YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY 100% RIGHT OOHdmn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[mudmaker]

Usually MSHA will shut down a mine if the violations are severe enough. We can only speculate something under the table going on here.
I know Massey Energy had hundreds of violations in limbo, appealing through an administrative judge. By doing that the company doesn't have to pay the fine and with the back log in front of those administrative judges, an outcome was so far down the road the hope is they are forgotten. With each violation that stands, it thereby increases the amount of all future fines so appealing them in the beginning is a top priority for the company.
Tragedy for the loss of life for it apparently doesn't weigh as heavy as loss of profit paying fines.

A chart showing numbers of fines for Massey Energy for 10 years.

http://www.msha.gov/PerformanceCoal/Massey%20Energy%20Violation%20Summary.pdf

[00Hdmn]

Usually MSHA will shut down a mine if the violations are severe enough. We can only speculate something under the table going on here.
I know Massey Energy had hundreds of violations in limbo, appealing through an administrative judge. By doing that the company doesn't have to pay the fine and with the back log in front of those administrative judges, an outcome was so far down the road the hope is they are forgotten. With each violation that stands, it thereby increases the amount of all future fines so appealing them in the beginning is a top priority for the company.
Tragedy for the loss of life for it apparently doesn't weigh as heavy as loss of profit paying fines.

A chart showing numbers of fines for Massey Energy for 10 years.

http://www.msha.gov/PerformanceCoal/Massey%20Energy%20Violation%20Summary.pdf

Thanks for the info, that just clarifies that the government is at complete fault that they didn't shut them down, if there was something going on under the table it is still the governments fault for letting that happen.

[Bubstr]

In a ideal world, the survivors of those 29 men would file suit against both, the coal co. and the government, but in the real world, as soon as they add government to the defendant list, the law suit becomes un-winnable. Who has control of the courts?

[gorj]

In a ideal world, the survivors of those 29 men would file suit against both, the coal co. and the government, but in the real world, as soon as they add government to the defendant list, the law suit becomes un-winnable. Who has control of the courts?

When government officials are involved, especially when benefitting and vacationing with the defendant, they become blind and deaf on curtain matters. It's ashame because lives were lost and families hurt.

[hucktyson]

When men working in an extremely dangerous occupation are killed in a terrible accident laying that on the CEO who most likely never stepped foot in that mine and most likely never talked to the shift supervisor is a huge strech

[tsand]

When men working in an extremely dangerous occupation are killed in a terrible accident laying that on the CEO who most likely never stepped foot in that mine and most likely never talked to the shift supervisor is a huge strech

The last time a judge a ruled against blankinship the next election Don spent a couple million running his on candidate against the judge and Don candidate won. Everybody that worked under Don was convicted or pleaded guilty. A they all said they were working on Don directions.

[let-r-eat]

If IMSHA would have shut the mine down, everyone would have been stirred to think the government is shutting down OUR COAL MINES and it's that MEAN NASTY GOVERNMENT killing our jobs!

I don't have enough information to know if he is guilty or not guilty or to even form an opinion but what I do know is that people need to quit pitting people against government. It's a scary tactic and if you don't want government in your lives then move to Darfur or Africa somewhere. Government has it's flaws but it isn't an enemy like so many are trying to reflect it to be!

[bleedblue55]

When men working in an extremely dangerous occupation are killed in a terrible accident laying that on the CEO who most likely never stepped foot in that mine and most likely never talked to the shift supervisor is a huge strech
Actually the whole case against him was based on how he micromanaged his coal mines to maximize production. Most of the testimony centered around how hands on he was with all levels of employees at the mine. A few of the shift supervisor types at Upper Big Branch cut deals with the Feds to minimize their own prosecution. Believe that's why the Feds thought they could tie him directly to the incidents that led up to the explosion. With that said I followed a lot of the proceedings and I'm not sure the "Gotcha Moment" ever happened but I could be wrong on that. I predicted huge fines and a little time at Club Fed pretrial. Whatever the outcome I'm sure the appeals will drag on for awhile given Don's war chest of funds..

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I'd be very surprised if he gets anything. He's the perfect example of only caring about the almighty dollar, and none about those who make it for you. Between buying politicians, judges, and I'd venture to say MSHA investigators, he's a rich pos who is pretty much above the law. The more you hear about him, the more you wanna vomit.

[jog49]

One of you has insinuated that the government is crooked. Say it ain't so, Joe!
LOL!

[TackyTracker]

this happened in 2010 and just now there is a deliberation???

[Clayton_Wetter]

Nobody should be calling this man a murderer unless they have knowledge of evidence to back it up. It is best not take an opinion on something out of hearsay.

[bleedblue55]

Nobody should be calling this man a murderer unless they have knowledge of evidence to back it up. It is best not take an opinion on something out of hearsay.

Someone on 4m saying "best not take an opinion on something out of hearsay". There should be some sort of award for a post like that.

[153J]

Someone on 4m saying "best not take an opinion on something out of hearsay". There should be some sort of award for a post like that.

there used to be...

them little green dots.....

[bleedblue55]

there used to be...

them little green dots.....

I'm thinking a red one, just because............

[NormP]

Because Clayton says we shouldn't jump to conclusions without documented facts to back it up?

[bleedblue55]

Because Clayton says we shouldn't jump to conclusions without documented facts to back it up?

No, because he made the reference about accusing Don of murder, which no one in this post did.

[hucktyson]

The shift supervisors are who is responsible for production. If they decide to forgo saftey to beat their quota that is on them. They have direct control of what's going on in the mine , if they felt lives were being risked they should have shut it down. I would be willing to bet there wouldn't be near as much hate for Don if he didn't have more money than the vast majority of this board COMBINED .... He was a ruthless executive who got $hit done !! If he didn't he would have been replaced. As CEO your job is to make money for your shareholders and your compensation is based on how well you accomplish that task. No differnt that a sub contractor working on flat rate jobs

[tsand]

The shift supervisors are who is responsible for production. If they decide to forgo saftey to beat their quota that is on them. They have direct control of what's going on in the mine , if they felt lives were being risked they should have shut it down. I would be willing to bet there wouldn't be near as much hate for Don if he didn't have more money than the vast majority of this board COMBINED .... He was a ruthless executive who got $hit done !! If he didn't he would have been replaced. As CEO your job is to make money for your shareholders and your compensation is based on how well you accomplish that task. No differnt that a sub contractor working on flat rate jobs you need to to read the NY times article on Don it's about how he micro manged all the mines and demanded 30 min updates on all production at every mine. That was the heart of the government case that nothing even down to the smallest detail wasn't done with his knowledge. In the article there a story told by a maid about what happened to her when she brought Don the wrong biscuit for breakfast that tells you all you need to know about the man. The name of the article is "The people vs the coal byron" Google it.

[racer67x]

you need to to read the NY times article on Don it's about how he micro manged all the mines and demanded 30 min updates on all production at every mine. That was the heart of the government case that nothing even down to the smallest detail wasn't done with his knowledge. In the article there a story told by a maid about what happened to her when she brought Don the wrong biscuit for breakfast that tells you all you need to know about the man. The name of the article is "The people vs the coal byron" Google it.

and you don't think a liberal rag like the NYT has a bias against coal?
you going to start quoting stuff from Mother Jones next..?..hope he beats it.

[davis2902]

Saw on Twitter that it looks like we have a hung jury.

[IZZOJR16]

guy sounds like a complete scumbag, funny because his son seems lie such a nice down to earth guy.

[Clayton_Wetter]

No, because he made the reference about accusing Don of murder, which no one in this post did.

Directly no, but there are several implications. I am really referring to previous threads that did make accusations.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Saw on Twitter that it looks like we have a hung jury.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/52986819.jpg

[Clayton_Wetter]

and you don't think a liberal rag like the NYT has a bias against coal?
you going to start quoting stuff from Mother Jones next..?..hope he beats it.

BINGO!!! To them rags, it's just to make a hit piece!!

[TackyTracker]

still no decision.... guess the jury can't decide

[Snowmanracr21]

Every big corporation puts profits ahead of safety and as far as that goes all their people too......money is the root of all evils dating back hundreds of years, and its only gotten worse

[25drtrkr]

Every big corporation puts profits ahead of safety and as far as that goes all their people too......money is the root of all evils dating back hundreds of years, and its only gotten worse

...the LOVE of money is the root of all evil! Big difference!

[gumby_32d]

I think if John was to enter the world 100 best appearing car at eldora in the future, it better be a tribute to the men that lost their lives that day. It's was because of guys like them that busted their tails and made some CEO millions and that CEO's son gets to go out play with race cars all day and live his dream.

[cutman]

I think if John was to enter the world 100 best appearing car at eldora in the future, it better be a tribute to the men that lost their lives that day. It's was because of guys like them that busted their tails and made some CEO millions and that CEO's son gets to go out play with race cars all day and live his dream.

Except for the fact that John isn't doing that anymore.

[t3r3e3]

this happened in 2010 and just now there is a deliberation???

Blankenship has endless funds, high priced lawyers, and bought and paid for elected officials to slow down the proceedings. The bottom line is the guy is as despicable as they come. Most of the time it's out of state interests that pillage WV. Makes it worse when it's a native treating people in the same area he grew up in like dirt.

[t3r3e3]

The shift supervisors are who is responsible for production. If they decide to forgo saftey to beat their quota that is on them. They have direct control of what's going on in the mine , if they felt lives were being risked they should have shut it down. I would be willing to bet there wouldn't be near as much hate for Don if he didn't have more money than the vast majority of this board COMBINED .... He was a ruthless executive who got $hit done !! If he didn't he would have been replaced. As CEO your job is to make money for your shareholders and your compensation is based on how well you accomplish that task. No differnt that a sub contractor working on flat rate jobs

You need to understand the whole picture Huck. Blankenship was the driving force behind busting the unions and switching over from underground mining to increased mountaintop jobs. Mountaintop removal requires a much smaller workforce than underground mining. Pretty much all the Massey mines were non-union, and many of the employees were not local. Massey was famous for advertising jobs in Charlotte, Atlanta, etc newspapers, but not too much locally.

What does all that add up to? Shift supervisors and other employees had to decide between following safety regs or keeping their jobs. Massey always had plenty of new applicants lined up to replace the guys who complained about unsafe working conditions or production above all else. Guys knew they would get canned if they didn't toe the company line, so they looked the other way.

As for the fines, Massey looked at fines as a cost of doing business. They racked up an insane amount of fines, but tied them up in MSHA mediation to the point that they didn't have to pay many of them, or had them reduced.

All of this is why Blankenship is on trial.

[blncfn57]

You need to understand the whole picture Huck. Blankenship was the driving force behind busting the unions and switching over from underground mining to increased mountaintop jobs. Mountaintop removal requires a much smaller workforce than underground mining. Pretty much all the Massey mines were non-union, and many of the employees were not local. Massey was famous for advertising jobs in Charlotte, Atlanta, etc newspapers, but not too much locally.

What does all that add up to? Shift supervisors and other employees had to decide between following safety regs or keeping their jobs. Massey always had plenty of new applicants lined up to replace the guys who complained about unsafe working conditions or production above all else. Guys knew they would get canned if they didn't toe the company line, so they looked the other way.

As for the fines, Massey looked at fines as a cost of doing business. They racked up an insane amount of fines, but tied them up in MSHA mediation to the point that they didn't have to pay many of them, or had them reduced.

All of this is why Blankenship is on trial.


It's nothing that every company in the country wouldn't do. The difference is, the government regulations and fines/penalties generally hold it to a minimum. It don't matter how much money this man had at his disposal, there would have been no stopping the government had they actually cared to step in. Sounds to me like the inspectors were bought and that's where the guilt lies IMO.

[welderron105]

IT aint against the law to bribe the inspectors??

[hucktyson]

The fact that he was hated by democrats / unions reinforces my beleive that this is a political hatchet job. No one put a gun to anyone's head to get in that mine , every guy had the opportunity to quit . I talked to several miners about this situation and not one of them thinks Blankenship made the calls on these details .

[mud duck]

Greed and profits by upper management got these miners killed. Blankenship didn't care one bit about the safety of the workers. I love how some blame it on the govt?? The very same ones that say govt regulates to much!!!!

[Cast-Iron-Junkie]

"I talked to several miners about this situation and not one of them thinks Blankenship made the calls on these details ."

Wow..... how f#$%*!g stupid do you think people are? Huck, you've said some stupid things here in the past but this is by far the dumbest f@#$*&g thing I've ever heard! You're not talking about Brian Gray, or qualifying in an invert spot at Eldora here buddy. Who the f@#k do you think you're fooling? "a political hatchet job"? Save the political bull(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) for you're mother, wife, boyfriend, kids or anyone else who believes you, you delusional right wing co(k sucker! It ain't flying here! This is about 29 Men losing there lives because this greedy arrogant (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) wanted to make even more money!

Refer to the company memo Blankenship wrote himself "if any of you have been asked by your group presidents, your supervisors, engineers or anyone else to do anything other than run coal (i.e., build overcasts, do construction jobs, or whatever) you need to ignore them and run coal. This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that coal pays the bills." .... not what you would have people believe when you said "The shift supervisors are who is responsible for production. If they decide to forgo saftey to beat their quota that is on them. They have direct control of what's going on in the mine " now is it? You're in way over your head here jack off.....

Let me ask you one final question here today. Why do you think Mr. Blankenship had water piped in to his home from another county?

[Nasty55]

"I talked to several miners about this situation and not one of them thinks Blankenship made the calls on these details ."

Wow..... how f#$%*!g stupid do you think people are? Huck, you've said some stupid things here in the past but this is by far the dumbest f@#$*&g thing I've ever heard! You're not talking about Brian Gray, or qualifying in an invert spot at Eldora here buddy. Who the f@#k do you think you're fooling? "a political hatchet job"? Save the political bull(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) for you're mother, wife, boyfriend, kids or anyone else who believes you, you delusional right wing co(k sucker! It ain't flying here! This is about 29 Men losing there lives because this greedy arrogant (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) wanted to make even more money!

Refer to the company memo Blankenship wrote himself "if any of you have been asked by your group presidents, your supervisors, engineers or anyone else to do anything other than run coal (i.e., build overcasts, do construction jobs, or whatever) you need to ignore them and run coal. This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that coal pays the bills." .... not what you would have people believe when you said "The shift supervisors are who is responsible for production. If they decide to forgo saftey to beat their quota that is on them. They have direct control of what's going on in the mine " now is it? You're in way over your head here jack off.....

Let me ask you one final question here today. Why do you think Mr. Blankenship had water piped in to his home from another county?


Best post yet......

[Josh Bayko]

Actually the whole case against him was based on how he micromanaged his coal mines to maximize production. Most of the testimony centered around how hands on he was with all levels of employees at the mine. A few of the shift supervisor types at Upper Big Branch cut deals with the Feds to minimize their own prosecution. Believe that's why the Feds thought they could tie him directly to the incidents that led up to the explosion. With that said I followed a lot of the proceedings and I'm not sure the "Gotcha Moment" ever happened but I could be wrong on that. I predicted huge fines and a little time at Club Fed pretrial. Whatever the outcome I'm sure the appeals will drag on for awhile given Don's war chest of funds..

If the prosecution's case was based mostly on the testimony of folks who cut deals to testify, they're not going to get a conviction. High powered attorneys, like Blankenships, almost assuredly tore the testimony's credibility apart.

I think the worst part of any of this is that 29 people are dead. No amount of court proceedings or convictions or anything else is going to change that. The families are going to feel that hurt every day for the rest of their lives. It shouldn't be about politics, but it is, on both ends.

[t3r3e3]

It's nothing that every company in the country wouldn't do. The difference is, the government regulations and fines/penalties generally hold it to a minimum. It don't matter how much money this man had at his disposal, there would have been no stopping the government had they actually cared to step in. Sounds to me like the inspectors were bought and that's where the guilt lies IMO.

I have to disagree. While every business sets out to make a profit, Massey took it far beyond that. Their safety record and violation list is far, far worse than the average coal operation. Massey got away with it because of the people they had in their pocket, the chronically understaffed nature of MSHA, the rigged political system, and the spineless state mine agencies in WV. There's also the bullying and company thugs who silenced anyone who dared to speak out.

[mud duck]

"I talked to several miners about this situation and not one of them thinks Blankenship made the calls on these details ."

Wow..... how f#$%*!g stupid do you think people are? Huck, you've said some stupid things here in the past but this is by far the dumbest f@#$*&g thing I've ever heard! You're not talking about Brian Gray, or qualifying in an invert spot at Eldora here buddy. Who the f@#k do you think you're fooling? "a political hatchet job"? Save the political bull(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) for you're mother, wife, boyfriend, kids or anyone else who believes you, you delusional right wing co(k sucker! It ain't flying here! This is about 29 Men losing there lives because this greedy arrogant (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) wanted to make even more money!

Refer to the company memo Blankenship wrote himself "if any of you have been asked by your group presidents, your supervisors, engineers or anyone else to do anything other than run coal (i.e., build overcasts, do construction jobs, or whatever) you need to ignore them and run coal. This memo is necessary only because we seem not to understand that coal pays the bills." .... not what you would have people believe when you said "The shift supervisors are who is responsible for production. If they decide to forgo saftey to beat their quota that is on them. They have direct control of what's going on in the mine " now is it? You're in way over your head here jack off.....

Let me ask you one final question here today. Why do you think Mr. Blankenship had water piped in to his home from another county?

CIJ You nailed it!! Blankenship might get off free and clear on this deal!! Mostly because of his money and influence. But, there's nobody in the state of WV, that believes poor ol Mr. Blankenship is completely innocent!! 29 miners lost their lives! While he sits at home and counts his millions!! There have been plenty of things brought out that showed his greed.

Not saying anything bad about his son, he had nothing to do with it. But, if the 23 Coal car is back out on the track after all this is said and done. I wouldn't be cheering it on!! The money that he made from those coal mines and yes the UBB is paying for that car!! Just remember, 29 guys died because the almighty dollar got in the way of safety!

[hucktyson]

Can you tell me how many miners died in the United States in the last 100 years at mines where don Blankenship had zero involvement ??

[t3r3e3]

Can you tell me how many miners died in the United States in the last 100 years at mines where don Blankenship had zero involvement ??

I don't know if you don't comprehend the point or are just choosing to ignore it. By your rationale, Ebola is okay because pandemic outbreaks have killed far more people over the past 100 years than just last year. And I suppose ISIL is okay too because religious extremists have killed far more people in the past 100 years than in the last couple.

I know your a PA guy. If you'd ever have lived or worked in the area Don holds sway in (I have and I have) you'd probably understand where many of us are coming from. It's a whole different world down there. The locals are treated like dirt by many of people in power. Guys like Blankenship are almost God-like in the coal fields. They're above the law, and can do what they want with impunity. That's why it was a breath of fresh air to finally see someone held accountable. Or at least the attempt of holding someone else accountable.

[mudmaker]

I would imagine however this court case turns out, there will be civil suits starting shortly afterwards. That may be where the true money will change hands. I expect him to have to pay out settlements plenty. There may be a carcass left but it could be picked clean in civil suits.
One reason to change from underground to surface mining is number of times per year that MSHA inspects goes from four to one per year. (That how it is in metal/nonmetal at least. I expect it's the same for coal) That the least amount they have to show up. They can come as often as they like.
Unfortunately, so much surface mining has ruined a lot of the countryside and extreme measures are mounting to prevent that.
When I worked limestone we collectively made it a goal to get zero violations every year. Unfortunately the general thought was to give them a violation here or there and they won't look as hard at every single thing. And we got violations for the simplest things too. I had a waterproof light switch that wasn't perfect in adjustment so it had to be clicked on with some effort and yes, that's a violation. Getting out of a loader without the bucket all the way to the ground is a violation. If, as an employee you can't tell the inspector where the MSDS book is at the facility or you don't know how to read it correctly is a violation. (MSDS forms have only recently become standardized so all companies have to use the same basic form to ease comprehension.)
Bottom line is its hard to please some inspectors but it's what has to be done and then if you get fined, take your lumps and rectify the situations and pay up or if you think your in the right, appeal. But appealing every violation with the chance of winning against the government ain't gonna happen.
Imo.

[Illtsate32]

Sounds like a scabby company owner who doesnt give a crap about his workers....