Question on mods

[Bob Hubbard]

Im a newbee to racing and while looking at new mod chassis I heard two different opinions ? One builder says he likes bump stops .....They do not ? ( meaning another chassis builder ) What does this mean ?

[HEAVY DUTY]

Personal feel. They both will work. The bump rubber allows you to run a softer spring. The bump stop adds spring rate as you start to compress it. The bad thing about bump stops is that they are very progressive in rate, and some get too stiff too quick. Advice for a using bump stop is, use the tallest, softest, Christmas tree style ones that are more linear in rate, and run a fair amount of shaft showing before you get on the bump stop. That way the car gets enough movement before the rate gets too stiff. If your car is good on no bump stops, your sweet spot is bigger. Bump stops, especially stiff ones are hit and miss. Don't use them on rough tracks other than to stop the travel at the very end, to keep it from bottoming hard ( metal to metal )

[Bob Hubbard]

Thank you for making that easy t understand ... I have alot more questions but for some reason that one was first ....LOL Thanks again

[dirtracer07x]

some classes dont allow bump stops i believe. what sanction will you be running?

[Bob Hubbard]

Im just helping a friend search info .... UMP mod rules

[lilsumo]

if your looking for a chassis, call Heavy Duty. He builds a fast car and his customer service is the BEST

[Bob Hubbard]

We have picked a chassis builder hope this year will be better now that we have tech support ..... Another questions are shocks ? Do we buy 4 or 6 ? Ive heard rf & lr are the most often changed ? Thanks for any imput as were just looking for info ....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

if your looking for a chassis, call Heavy Duty. He builds a fast car and his customer service is the BEST

You are 100% correct! Only chassis builder in any type of car that I have found willing to talk longer than me! Lol

[25drtrkr]

Is he the owner of Lightning Chassis? If not, what is his brand?

[racindirt8p]

Yes heavy duty is Don owner of lightning chassis great cars and awesome tech always willing to help

[Bob Hubbard]

We need a set of scales this year ..... What should we buy ....

[Bob Hubbard]

Whats the most affordable way to have a 650 hp motor built .....

[save the racers]

355 CID spec head motor.Angle mill the heads ,2925 intake, roller cam.3.5 stroke crank is easy to drive and not as hard on parts.You can use a stock block with splayed caps.If you are new to racing I would get a 355 with angle milled vortecs ,solid cam.Pro products intake. Use 1.6 exhaust valve' port the exhaust, leave the intake stock.

[Bob Hubbard]

Can this kinda h/p be bolted together without have to go thur a engine builder & machine shop work ?

[save the racers]

It depend on your skill level and the tools you have.The balancing, boring, decking,align bore,milling and valve job are machine shop work you will have to have done.As you go up in h/p, the tougher it gets.

[powerslide]

What area are you from? I'm sure someone on here can suggest a good machine shop. Might be worth it if you don't have any engine building tools to get someone to assemble you a short block. As pointed out if you are new you don't need 650hp. Its easier to drive an under powered car. Checkout all the IMCA crate cars winning.

[Bob Hubbard]

My buddy has a deal in the works now .... I was just looking to see what the options were .... Thanks for all the help .... This is a big learning curve ..

[Bob Hubbard]

Another question ....Why do alot of racers build a new chassis each year ? Ive seen alot of rollers for sale only ran one season .... With the chassis being the same why build a new one ....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Another question ....Why do alot of racers build a new chassis each year ? Ive seen alot of rollers for sale only ran one season .... With the chassis being the same why build a new one ....

If you can afford to do it, you buy new and sell your used for a decent price. It ensures your stuff is new and fresh. Sure, the car is good for 3 years or so, but you have to do PMs and replace worn stuff. If you leave that to someone else, your stuff is always tip top.

[Bob Hubbard]

What are the 3 most important things a new team/driver does wrong during the learning process of getting into mod racing ..... Maybe the most over looked too .... My buddy keeps telling me its way harder than it looks from the grandstands ....

[save the racers]

As a driver
1. staying calm
2.be consistent every lap
3. telling what the car is doing
As a crew
1.Maintenance
2.Establishing a base line setup
3.Know when to make changes and what changes to make

[HEAVY DUTY]

Maintainence, and knowing how to maintain a car. Racecars shouldn't sqeak, and brakes shouldn't drag. Tires shouldn't be shiny. Understand how to set up a car. It is best to let an accomplished racer who has a good feel for a car drive your car and make sure it is OK. If you don't know what you are supposed to feel, how do you know if a problem is the car or driver? Don't put too much motor in the car. Too much motor makes it hard for experienced drivers to drive. Don't try and race, before you learn to drive. I see new guys go out and try to keep up with the faster cars before they learn car control. They wreck a lot, and tear other peoples stuff up. Stay out of the way and make laps until you are capable of racing with others. One more thing I can add. Spend money on what is needed. Make your car competitive, and keep good tires on it, instead of buying T shirts, websites, and numbers for the back window. Fancy painted helmets cost more than a set of tires, and don't make you faster. A 250 dollar drivers suit will stop fire the same as a 1500 dollar custom embroidered suit. I have seen guys that have t shirts and fan cards, before they ever had a racecar. Spend your money wisely, there is never enough for what you need, don't spend it on wants.

[JustAddDirt]

Maintainence, and knowing how to maintain a car. Racecars shouldn't sqeak, and brakes shouldn't drag. Tires shouldn't be shiny. Understand how to set up a car. It is best to let an accomplished racer who has a good feel for a car drive your car and make sure it is OK. If you don't know what you are supposed to feel, how do you know if a problem is the car or driver? Don't put too much motor in the car. Too much motor makes it hard for experienced drivers to drive. Don't try and race, before you learn to drive. I see new guys go out and try to keep up with the faster cars before they learn car control. They wreck a lot, and tear other peoples stuff up. Stay out of the way and make laps until you are capable of racing with others. One more thing I can add. Spend money on what is needed. Make your car competitive, and keep good tires on it, instead of buying T shirts, websites, and numbers for the back window. Fancy painted helmets cost more than a set of tires, and don't make you faster. A 250 dollar drivers suit will stop fire the same as a 1500 dollar custom embroidered suit. I have seen guys that have t shirts and fan cards, before they ever had a racecar. Spend your money wisely, there is never enough for what you need, don't spend it on wants.

excellent post!!

[let-r-eat]

Excellent post Heavy Duty!

I like to watch drivers come up through the ranks. The very best drivers were NEVER hard on equipment from the first day they started racing. They never try to put the car where it should never go. I'm not saying rubbin isn't racing but the best *Bloomquist/Owens/ONeal/Gilpin/Hawkins/Strickler/etc etc never tore up race cars trying to figure out how to get them to go around the circle.

I very rarely see anyone with a pile of junk in victory lane either. Racing well takes a ton of effort, time, and money and there will never be a replacement for talent.

[Bob Hubbard]

ok ....ive been listening to my buddy say he can make the car turn with the throttle ..... He keeps saying he needs motor incase the car is too tight .... It just doesnt sound right to me .... Is he right ?

[JustAddDirt]

ok ....ive been listening to my buddy say he can make the car turn with the throttle ..... He keeps saying he needs motor incase the car is too tight .... It just doesnt sound right to me .... Is he right ?

you can do that but it will likely be slower than a car that was set up correctly.
In the heavy track conditions you will be ok, but in slick conditions you will suffer.

[Matt49]

JustAddDirt is 100% right. If you're using the gas to turn the car in slick conditions at mid-corner, you have killed any chance of having forward bite coming off the corners. As soon as you light the tires up, you're out to lunch.

[Lizardracing]

My biggest improvement was two things, getting good parts on the car that last a race or two and not cobbled up stuff I thought would work and the second was to stop listening to every Tom, (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) and Harry with a race car. Interestingly, I don't even know a Tom (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) or Harry but anyway, I found one guy...who understood me and my program and holy cow it made me faster lol. I still don't listen to everything he says and I do what my car want's but I can trust by his win record that the advice works for him.

[Bob Hubbard]

Thanks for all the insight .... We only ran 3/4 of the season last year with little track time .... He did run good at a couple tracks .... At the end of the year he found a bent rf shock ... We think that was alot of it ..... This year we start off with a new chassis ( spring behind ) & the help of the chassis builder .... We hope to have a big learning curve this season ....

[racer69]

One thing that will help is getting in a good race with the best guys. With help from HEAVY DUTY and others I was getting better. Making the car right. One night I made the feature with some of the best. I didnt try to race them. I had no chance. But with so many good drivers in one race there was very little cautions. Lots of fast hard racing. I learned more in that single race than in the whole first season.

[Bob Hubbard]

How important is it to groove on your tires ?

[RCJ]

I divide the car in to 3 categories,Motor ,Chassis ,Tires.You will spend equally amounts of time on each one.Tire prep is a little bit of a black art.The combination of grinding ,siping and grooving is going to change with compounds and track conditions.When I say prep I'm not talking about soaking.

[Bob Hubbard]

Is this a good video about tires .....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUEfC1jTKiY

[Bob Hubbard]

ok ...so the question is .... My buddy has a 2013 diamond clamp car .... He ran into a local racer who said he can easily change it from clamp to spring behind .... He said 300 -400 to change it over to a spring behind ... I believe he called it adding a bird cage ? Does this sound right ...

[RCJ]

That video is one way to do it.With those tires I would just cut the factory cross grooves a little deeper, then add swallow sipes.I always want to keep the newest tires on the car so I cut them to help some in the tack without hurting in the slick.I would run the car as is and establish a good base line first, before I changed alot of mounts

[Bob Hubbard]

Why would you want a clamped base line if your going to change it to a completely different suspension?

I dont understand your comment ? I thought it was one or the other ...

[Bob Hubbard]

My buddy cant make up his mind on what scales to buy ? Old school beam scales or digital .... Seems like the old beam scales would be the simple way to go ....Any thoughts on the scales ?

[powerslide]

My buddy cant make up his mind on what scales to buy ? Old school beam scales or digital .... Seems like the old beam scales would be the simple way to go ....Any thoughts on the scales ?

If you are talking about the old grain scales they are fine. If you have a lot of extra space, back in 03 a regional late model champ was still using them. Digitals are great for a guy who's racing out of a small shop or garage because they don't take up much space. Either will work fine as long as they are taken care of. Don't pull the cords out by the wire on electrics and don't push/pull on the upper portion of the grain scales.

[Bob Hubbard]

If you are talking about the old grain scales they are fine. If you have a lot of extra space, back in 03 a regional late model champ was still using them. Digitals are great for a guy who's racing out of a small shop or garage because they don't take up much space. Either will work fine as long as they are taken care of. Don't pull the cords out by the wire on electrics and don't push/pull on the upper portion of the grain scales...... Yea I was talking about the grain scales .... I was thinking the older scales would read the same every time .... I guess im just old school ....LOL

[Bob Hubbard]

What tire pressure numbers should we be using .... We have a book but my buddy seems to think lower is better .... He was asking one of the local fast guys and he was told way lower than he was running ...

[RCJ]

r/r 14 to 12 r/f 14 l/r 9 l/f 8 .I know guys than have ran lower but it was on real slick flat track.

[JustAddDirt]

lf10
lr10
rf14
rr13
that is were I typically start for Florence, Lawrenceburg, and Moler which sounds like the area you will be racing.
The problem with the LR being ran low on pressure is that they build heat faster and expand, rendering your stagger numbers useless. also with the left front at 8, I think that is too low, makes it hard to push a car with flat tires, and you get a lot of sidewall deflection, which will make steering feel lazy, or spongy. It also will soften wheel rate of that corner.

[Bob Hubbard]

Do these pressures vary with track surface Temps ?

[JustAddDirt]

not for me no.
might adjust for track conditions slightly

[Bob Hubbard]

Thanks that worked .... Now that the old car is handling better ....The New car is ready .... LOL

[Bob Hubbard]

This might be 2 questions .... We have one set of shocks we can adj by air pressure & another set plus 2 from the chassis builder .... The extra 2 are for adj to track conditions .... Is this doing the same thing two different ways ? ......The adj shocks were for are old car ....

[JustAddDirt]

gas pressure would be a small compression adjustment. Typically a rough track adjustment.
Gas pressure should be the only adjustment on shock. Any other kind of adjustable shock would not be following the rules set forth by UMP, AMRA...etc.
more than likely if they are valved slightly different for heavy to intermediate
then a slick track set.