Passing Points

[Mams]

Have only been to one race where this format is used. If the polesitter in a heat wins the heat does he get zero passing points?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Have only been to one race where this format is used. If the polesitter in a heat wins the heat does he get zero passing points?

Technically, it is finishing + passing points. He would receive the first place finishing points. And would likely earn the most points unless someone came from deep in the field and ran second.

[hipower17]

passing points are the dumbest thing in racing. why would a racer even show up for a race like this? just my opinion.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

passing points are the dumbest thing in racing. why would a racer even show up for a race like this? just my opinion.

If it is used at a track where you can pass, they work very well.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

This link explains it well.
http://florencespeedway.com/drivers/procedures/passing-points-procedures/

[D. Tidrow]

This link explains it well.http://florencespeedway.com/drivers/procedures/passing-points-procedures/Shane Clanton doesn't like passing points

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Shane Clanton doesn't like passing points

They don't even like heat races in the South. Go figure!

[ss12]

Racer that can't pass don't like passing points. Fans come to see passing(racing).

[zyoung25]

Shane Clanton doesn't like passing points

Saying Shane "doesn't like passing points" is understatement from what he said last night.

[Highside Hustler25]

Saying Shane "doesn't like passing points" is understatement from what he said last night.

Yep. And the Georgia whiner says He's not coming back next year. That's a real disappointment.NOT!

[zeroracing]

I don't think passing points are the worse thing if you work out the finish spot gets X points plus y points per car you pass. I think your system is wrong if you finish top finish top two in a heat and have to run a b main (assuming not 100+ cars). Also I there should be something to winning a heat, no other finisher can start before the heat winners. 1-2 in a single best should not be lined up beside each other in the main on the front row.

Better system:
Heat race winners lined up by how many passing pints they earned. Then the rest of the field lined up on passing points. Need to reward winning even if you start on the pole it's still a win.

[huskerdirt]

I don't think passing points are the worse thing if you work out the finish spot gets X points plus y points per car you pass. I think your system is wrong if you finish top finish top two in a heat and have to run a b main (assuming not 100+ cars). Also I there should be something to winning a heat, no other finisher can start before the heat winners. 1-2 in a single best should not be lined up beside each other in the main on the front row.

Better system:
Heat race winners lined up by how many passing pints they earned. Then the rest of the field lined up on passing points. Need to reward winning even if you start on the pole it's still a win.


That's exactly how it works. You get a finishing position/points and then points for cars you passed.

I've been going to passing point races for a long time. I've never seen a heat winner not make the field and very few times a 2nd place having to run a B.

Furthermore the system being used at Tucson is not the same system that's provided in the link. What Tucson is doing is basically giving a 7 point differential between finishing positions and giving 5 points per position gained. While MLRA/Florence give a 4 point finishing and then 1.76 per position gained. I believe this is why you see some winners starting in the middle of the A main fields. It seems Tucson puts more emphasis on passing, than finishing position.

[Kwd1253]

Like MbR said it's great for tracks that you can pass on, Also good for the fans. Some drivers like it, some dont. Some tracks give PP to leader if laps cars, some place dont. Which I think they should. It's not easy to lap cars with in 8 laps. But it has its down faults look what happen to Don and shane. If wws wasn't a PP system, either shane wouldn't of through that slider 2nd place would of put him in 4th row worst 6th row. Or don would of took 2nd and backed out make sure they didn't wreck into each other. Either you like passing points or you dont. I like pp myself it makes driver race harder in the heats.

[zeroracing]

In response to huskerdirt, I understand the system but the one they are using is flawed.

1. Clanton and Davenport came through the same heat one night and started front row.
2. I think it was Clinton won a heat and started 8th? One night.
3. Davenport won a heat and started 14th.
4. If I seen race monitor right Looney ran second on night in a heat and had to run the B.

I like passing points, but the numbers Tucson is using is flawed, too little weight on winning.

[huskerdirt]

Like MbR said it's great for tracks that you can pass on, Also good for the fans. Some drivers like it, some dont. Some tracks give PP to leader if laps cars, some place dont. Which I think they should. It's not easy to lap cars with in 8 laps. But it has its down faults look what happen to Don and shane. If wws wasn't a PP system, either shane wouldn't of through that slider 2nd place would of put him in 4th row worst 6th row. Or don would of took 2nd and backed out make sure they didn't wreck into each other. Either you like passing points or you dont. I like pp myself it makes driver race harder in the heats.

I completely disagree..... And you are gonna find out why...

Before the attempted slide job... Clanton had highest passing points accumulated in that heat. He would've started top 6 or 8 for sure in the feature. The wreck also allowed Gustin and Krohn to double the cars they passed. Both started in the top 4. Had this been a standard 6 heat/top 3 transfer. Clanton would've started 10th in the feature if held on to second.

I never seen a track give passing points for lapping cars.

[Kwd1253]

Tuson is flawed it's only good if start 5th-10th in heats.

[huskerdirt]

In response to huskerdirt, I understand the system but the one they are using is flawed.

1. Clanton and Davenport came through the same heat one night and started front row.
2. I think it was Clinton won a heat and started 8th? One night.
3. Davenport won a heat and started 14th.
4. If I seen race monitor right Looney ran second on night in a heat and had to run the B.

I like passing points, but the numbers Tucson is using is flawed, too little weight on winning.

No matter what system you run. Numbers 1-3 will happen at some point. It's been a long time since I've seen a 2nd place guy go to the B.

That was my point above the system Tucson is using carries more weight on passing than finishing. That's why you hear drivers complain and act confused.

I don't know why they are using this system... Maybe it's a west coast thing.

[slmcrewchief99]

There is nothing wrong with passing points or the way it works. The heat race winner IS rewarded because he qualified for the feature. The guys that start in the back and race their way forward are rewarded too. That's how the system works. Its the luck of the draw. If you are the BEST car in your group and you start on the pole. You will still be rewarded because you will make the main.
Nobody has said a word about passing points till Clanton complained about it. Had his slider worked the way he wanted it to he would have been on the front of the feature last night. This wouldn't even be a topic on here. Not a dam 1 of you said anything when Clanton started 10th in his heat Wednesday night and he brought JD and Lanigan who were behind him to finish 1,2, and 3. That put Clanton and JD both on the front row. There were 3 guys that won from the pole of their heats that same night. NOBODY said a word about it. Now yall want to get on here and b1tch about it because all of the sudden because you don't like it or a driver says he hates it. It's always been that way at the WWS and EVERY driver knows it before he pulls out there. Don't like it. THEN STAY HOME........
Yall beat anything I have ever seen. Complain. Complain. Complain. SMDH

[Kwd1253]

I believe it was battleground Speedway husker that used to do that. Which I don't know why tracks that use PP put that in their PP.

[onlyfacts]

Passing points are ok if the track is good for racing.... But a single heat system like tucson is using sucks... The double heat system works better because if you do draw (bad) the front row you have a chance in the second heat to get some passing points.. But this is not the system that built national level late model racing.. Truthfully when you through in luck of the draw to a professional level of Motorsports you weaken the product. No fan of passing points system.At a time when everyone is wining about costs... How do you think Clanton, Shaw or Ward is feeling about costs after the results of passing points system? Clanton just lost more than any one racer has won or will win at Tucson this year.... Passing points- stupid.

[plunks7]

If Clanton said things about why he's not coming back at every track because he didn't get his way. He will not be running much this year. You take 59 drivers minus 1 you would still would have a full field. I think he should practice passing. And he would solve his own problem!!!! Maybe he should just race at his relatives track. He gets more benefits. And his sponsors will be a lot Happier. :)

[onlyfacts]

There is nothing wrong with passing points or the way it works. The heat race winner IS rewarded because he qualified for the feature. The guys that start in the back and race their way forward are rewarded too. That's how the system works. Its the luck of the draw. If you are the BEST car in your group and you start on the pole. You will still be rewarded because you will make the main. Nobody has said a word about passing points till Clanton complained about it. Had his slider worked the way he wanted it to he would have been on the front of the feature last night. This wouldn't even be a topic on here. Not a dam 1 of you said anything when Clanton started 10th in his heat Wednesday night and he brought JD and Lanigan who were behind him to finish 1,2, and 3. That put Clanton and JD both on the front row. There were 3 guys that won from the pole of their heats that same night. NOBODY said a word about it. Now yall want to get on here and b1tch about it because all of the sudden because you don't like it or a driver says he hates it. It's always been that way at the WWS and EVERY driver knows it before he pulls out there. Don't like it. THEN STAY HOME........Yall beat anything I have ever seen. Complain. Complain. Complain. SMDHYou should be here in Tucson and take a poll to see how everyone feels about passing points... I bet next year guys will think about making the trip after the get home and balance up the cost vs winnings... Less than 1% will be in the black. Bad financial decisions will eventually find the bottom on a racers budget.

[Bubstr]

I like passing points. It's good for the race fan. If the race fan is happy and comes to the race, everyone is happy. I do like the double heat system, like I80 uses, more than a single heat. The fan in the stand, pays the bill.

All I can say about a track that you can't pass on, is why are they having a race there?

[pushin cushin]

You should be here in Tucson and take a poll to see how everyone feels about passing points... I bet next year guys will think about making the trip after the get home and balance up the cost vs winnings... Less than 1% will be in the black. Bad financial decisions will eventually find the bottom on a racers budget.

You don't really believe that the majority of these guys that came out here really thought they were going home "ahead" to begin with do you? The WWS has always been a passing points deal except in 2014 when the NDRL ran it. With that being said, everyone here besides JD has raced in this Event, knows what they are in for. Yes, the field is super stout and maybe the system needs tweaked a little. I have been watching Ricky Thorton Jr. and he's done nothing but pass cars since getting into the 33 car, but you wouldn't know it by looking at his finishes. Part of the problem I believe is that these features have had only 1 caution on average. (Friday's went green-checker). As JD pointed out, it takes awhile to get around some guys, and he felt if he had more time, he'd had something for them.

I would like to see 40 laps instead of 30 for the A-main. As someone mentioned above, a track that has a passing points system will work at a track that you can pass on. The track at USA has been racy all week, just maybe adding some laps to the heats (go from 8 to 10), and A-main (30 to 40) might help.

[huskerdirt]

You should be here in Tucson and take a poll to see how everyone feels about passing points... I bet next year guys will think about making the trip after the get home and balance up the cost vs winnings... Less than 1% will be in the black. Bad financial decisions will eventually find the bottom on a racers budget.

Yet they've been doing passing points out there for like 5 years. The same core group of drivers go out there every year. It's never made financial sense to make that trip west. Guys go out there to get a jump start on the season. And this year is no different other than the bonus they offered that nobody will win.

Your argument reminds of the first year that Lucas sanctioned the SDN. All these national drivers b!tched and moaned until they were blue in the face. Did they stop coming because of it?? Nope, in fact the fields have gotten bigger/better.

Stop exaggerating.

[pushin cushin]

I like passing points. It's good for the race fan. If the race fan is happy and comes to the race, everyone is happy. I do like the double heat system, like I80 uses, more than a single heat. The fan in the stand, pays the bill.

All I can say about a track that you can't pass on, is why are they having a race there?

Some buddies and I discussed this same thing on Friday, that you and Husker are talking about. If this was to happen, I think you would have to cut a class or both. If not, that would be a lot more hard laps on the track each night, and also add quite a bit more time to the show. Not to mention that the purses are apples and oranges to I-80. Would guys want to run double heats on a night when the track is hammer down for what 4th in the feature will pay?

[SHOE32]

Does anyone really care if clanton comes back next year. Quit whining and race.

[dirty bert]

If Clanton said things about why he's not coming back at every track because he didn't get his way. He will not be running much this year. You take 59 drivers minus 1 you would still would have a full field. I think he should practice passing. And he would solve his own problem!!!! Maybe he should just race at his relatives track. He gets more benefits. And his sponsors will be a lot Happier. :)Your hit the nail on the head

[Bubstr]

Some buddies and I discussed this same thing on Friday, that you and Husker are talking about. If this was to happen, I think you would have to cut a class or both. If not, that would be a lot more hard laps on the track each night, and also add quite a bit more time to the show. Not to mention that the purses are apples and oranges to I-80. Would guys want to run double heats on a night when the track is hammer down for what 4th in the feature will pay?

I realize, that the SDN pays a lot more. I wonder what the Ticket prices vary? This passing points is about Fan interest, not if drivers are happy. The drivers will surly be unhappy if there is no race, because of no fan support. There has been a lot of tracks, that have shut down and I don't see that trend discontinuing. Do you? If they don't perk interest and put on good shows, a lot more will close. Even die hard fans desert tracks like rats off a sinking ship if it's boring.

[pushin cushin]

I agree. We lost our beloved Manzanita Speedway not long ago...
The ticket prices here are a bargain. $100 will get you in ALL 6 races. Doubt you'll find it that cheap anywhere else. I just think the heats and B-mains should be one lap per car in each race.

[racer67x]

pull pills and send them..Passing points is just another gimmick.

[plunks7]

I think on the last night they should invert the top 12 all week. 1st to 12, 2nd to 11th and so on. The guys that have been up front all week and Won a bunch of Money. Will now have to race their Butt off to get the big pay day. Spread the wealth around. Not a couple guys reaping the benefits.

[MidTnDirtFan]

They don't even like heat races in the South. Go figure!

That is a good point. Too many series in the south lock in the top 4-8 cars via qualifying. I prefer all cars race their way into a feature. Without inversions and like WOO redraws after the heats. If you win your heat then you should start in the front. But you have to RACE YOUR WAY IN.

[huskerdirt]

I think on the last night they should invert the top 12 all week. 1st to 12, 2nd to 11th and so on. The guys that have been up front all week and Won a bunch of Money. Will now have to race their Butt off to get the big pay day. Spread the wealth around. Not a couple guys reaping the benefits.

They did inverts in 2014 with the world famous NDRL. They did group time trialing and then did an invert of 6. Then they did passing points for the heat.

John Blankenship took it up the a$$ so hard they dropped the inverts mid week.

Instead of worrying about what's "fair" and crying about they are getting screwed. Get on the fuking wheel and drive.

[37mod]

I watched the video and still can't figure out how passing points caused the wreck. I think the wall is at fault, if the wall had been further away from the track he wouldn't have hit it causing the spin and contact. It's my opinion that walls cause more wrecks than point systems. JMO. Have fun with it.

[fryefan]

passing points are the dumbest thing in racing. why would a racer even show up for a race like this? just my opinion.

You could not be more wrong. Passing point races provide much better racing in general than the boring time trial formats.

[Bubstr]

Some buddies and I discussed this same thing on Friday, that you and Husker are talking about. If this was to happen, I think you would have to cut a class or both. If not, that would be a lot more hard laps on the track each night, and also add quite a bit more time to the show. Not to mention that the purses are apples and oranges to I-80. Would guys want to run double heats on a night when the track is hammer down for what 4th in the feature will pay?

I'd like to address the lot's more hard laps, part of your post. Yes you would have more laps on the track, but where would those extra laps be? All in one groove leading to a rubber down track at times, as time trials do? Or because of the need to pass, the track gets wider, quicker and avoids the rubber down freight train at the end of the night. I'm not so sure that passing points format doesn't improve the racing surface. Look at Florence, a much improved race since the passing points format. What I saw of that track, before the change put it on my black list. I'm changing my mind and putting it on my go to list.

If you subtract the 2 time trial laps and 1 getting speed and stopping, from a 10 lap extra heat, it's just 7 laps more per car. The best thing is, if they screw up on first heat, they can make it up on the second. How much fairer can you get.

[powerslide]

I'd like to address the lot's more hard laps, part of your post. Yes you would have more laps on the track, but where would those extra laps be? All in one groove leading to a rubber down track at times, as time trials do? Or because of the need to pass, the track gets wider, quicker and avoids the rubber down freight train at the end of the night. I'm not so sure that passing points format doesn't improve the racing surface. Look at Florence, a much improved race since the passing points format. What I saw of that track, before the change put it on my black list. I'm changing my mind and putting it on my go to list.

If you subtract the 2 time trial laps and 1 getting speed and stopping, from a 10 lap extra heat, it's just 7 laps more per car. The best thing is, if they screw up on first heat, they can make it up on the second. How much fairer can you get.

And I think when guys know they have that second chance maybe they don't make last corner banzi moves like Clanton did. Maybe they just settle in and know I scored a ton of points I don't need to make this bonehead move I will get some more points in round 2. I think they could of done 10 lap heats w/ the stiff competition they had. Also if the guys w/ the street stocks racing in the late model class had some sense and elected to go to the tail it would be great, some of those heat starts were frightening.

[LMPunk]

I do like the way North/South (and other places/shows) does the double heats passing points where they'll invert the starting spots giving the drivers an equal opportunity to make up points by passing cars or winning the heat (or both like Jason Jameson did in a N/S heat last year).

[plunks7]

As many cars in race + 2 laps for Heats. Just a suggestion.