Crown Jewels?

[W2Racing09]

In the Fast Talk this week on DoD they are talking about the Silver Dollar Nationals, and whether or not it is a Crown Jewel.

I'll ask this question: What do you think makes a race a Crown Jewel? What are the requirements?

[JMDraceHD98]

I don't think it has to be a high paying race to be considered a crown jewel. It is a race that not only the drivers but fans have circled on their calendars as "Do not miss" event. It's one where you can just tell the atmosphere around the track is special because it truly would be special to win the race.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If you would be there to race for the trophy and zero dollars, it is a Crown Jewel. There aren't many of them.

[W2Racing09]

If you would be there to race for the trophy and zero dollars, it is a Crown Jewel. There aren't many of them.

This I agree with,

On the above referenced DoD article one of the people mentioned that the Silver Dollar Nationals are in fact a crown jewel, as well as the Topless 100, and the Show-Me.

To me of those events the Show-Me is the only one I would consider a Crown Jewel, and of all the Crown Jewel's on my list it has by far the weakest reasoning. To me it simply isn't a huge deal of a race unless everyone is there, and with the WoO and other regional series racing elsewhere it will never get up to the level of the World, the Dream, the DTWC, or even the PDC. The Silver Dollar Nationals, and the Topless 100 are big races for sure... but IMO Crown Jewels they are not.

My list of Crown Jewels:

Dream
Show-Me (?)
Firecracker
PDC
USA Nationals
Knoxville
N/S 100
World 100
DTWC
World Finals (?)

[huskerdirt]

As someone who has seen this race grow over the last 6 years. I would say it's definitely trending upward. The first year there were a lot of unknowns on how the format would play out on a track most were unfamiliar with. Since then it's gotten some traction as the car counts have gone up and quality of the field has gotten higher. It's nice to see Bloomer and Feger go out of there way to say that they love the place.

At the sametime until the majority of drivers say it's a race they absolutely want to win or that they really excited to get there. It won't ever be a crown jewel. And that's just fine. The term crown jewel gets thrown around so loosely that it lost its meaning.

Speaking of the Show Me..... The SDN had a higher overall payout the last two years for the A main(obviously not in 2016). Yet more drivers seem to go out there way to make the trip to Wheatland.

[zach51]

I'd probably throw the Topless in there simply because it is unique. But heck the sail panels are starting to wither away anyways, before long every race will be topless. With that being said, I like to see events that have full shows on the final day, not just heats and qualify on Friday and 100 lap feature on Saturday.

[Kwd1253]

To me of those events the Show-Me is the only one I would consider a Crown Jewel, and of all the Crown Jewel's on my list it has by far the weakest reasoning. To me it simply isn't a huge deal of a race unless everyone is there, and with the WoO and other regional series racing elsewhere it will never get up to the level of the World, the Dream, the DTWC, or even the PDC. The Silver Dollar Nationals, and the Topless 100 are big races for sure... but IMO Crown Jewels they are not. My list of Crown Jewels:DreamShow-Me (?)FirecrackerPDCUSA NationalsKnoxvilleN/S 100World 100DTWCWorld Finals (?)Well i know that jyo, lot your top WoO driver don't have show me 100, n/s 100 on their schedule, most the top WoO don't support lucas events. You will see lucas guys go after the big paydays of WoO.. but not saying them two are not, they are to me. But I thing Topless 100 is, it's the history of it, just look at the top 3 finisher in last 22 years who race that event. But this jmo bro

[slmcrewchief99]

W2, I respect your opinion on what you call a crown jewel, but I will have to disagree with you. The 2 biggest I will disagree with is the PDC being a crown jewel and the Topless not. If I remember correctly, up until a few years ago the PDC was an unsanctioned event that only paid 10k. I understand it has been around for a long time but I would be hesitant about it being on my list. Since the WoO is being sanctioned there for the PDC, that has helped it claim its substance. But to me its not much different than the SDN.
Now the Topless on the other hand is a Crown Jewel in my opinion. It has been going on for over 20yrs as well as pay 40k for that 20 plus years. It is the biggest race in this region. This race DID have all the top national drivers until Lucas and WoO started scheduling on top of each other. It had for years, 90 plus cars each year, until the scheduling issues between the series. It still has over 60 cars even with Lucas taking it over. I am willing to bet the 15000 plus people in attendance every year would not agree with you either.
To me the World Finals is just that. It's just another typical WoO race weekend. It's not a crown jewel. Never will be. It's just another WoO race that happens at the ends their points. It will never be like the DTWC no matter where it takes place at. If you make it a crown jewel you may as well put Volusia in there too. Not much difference in either event....

[kidrock]

It's hard to argue that the PDC if not a crown jewel now is rapidly becoming one. Not sure what constitutes a crown jewel but, when you have the other series not scheduling on top of the PDC like last year because of drivers wanting to go and now with the payout they have and the amount of fans and media that attends the race it's kind of hard not to call it a crown jewel.

[W2Racing09]

W2, I respect your opinion on what you call a crown jewel, but I will have to disagree with you. The 2 biggest I will disagree with is the PDC being a crown jewel and the Topless not. If I remember correctly, up until a few years ago the PDC was an unsanctioned event that only paid 10k. I understand it has been around for a long time but I would be hesitant about it being on my list. Since the WoO is being sanctioned there for the PDC, that has helped it claim its substance. But to me its not much different than the SDN.
Now the Topless on the other hand is a Crown Jewel in my opinion. It has been going on for over 20yrs as well as pay 40k for that 20 plus years. It is the biggest race in this region. This race DID have all the top national drivers until Lucas and WoO started scheduling on top of each other. It had for years, 90 plus cars each year, until the scheduling issues between the series. It still has over 60 cars even with Lucas taking it over. I am willing to bet the 15000 plus people in attendance every year would not agree with you either.
To me the World Finals is just that. It's just another typical WoO race weekend. It's not a crown jewel. Never will be. It's just another WoO race that happens at the ends their points. It will never be like the DTWC no matter where it takes place at. If you make it a crown jewel you may as well put Volusia in there too. Not much difference in either event....

I definitely think the PDC is a Crown Jewel, it does not need to be a long standing huge race -- it just needs to have a reputation and prestige level that makes guys who don't have to be there come out to race it. I can definitely see your argument on the Topless however.

Volusia and World Finals are similar, in that they might not pay a ton but people want those wins. Getting a gator, getting a win at the World Finals... you know you beat a huge field of all of the best drivers in the country. If Josh goes off and wins the Dream, the PDC, the USA Nats, etc. will the winner of the Topless or the SDN feel like they beat all the best cars in the country when Josh/Clanton/Shirley/Satterlee, etc. are off running at Delaware/Potomac/Winchester with the WoO?

I wish the two series would agree not to schedule over any races that pay more than $25k -- that would definitely benefit the drivers and would bring a bunch more of these shows to the forefront that (I think) are not as big outside of their region. I'm sure at some point the WoO and Lucas will have to work together a little bit.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[slmcrewchief99]

I to think that its about the prestige that makes it a crown jewel. The problem is having 2 series it will create this topic that we are having about what race is what. Even the few races that don't overlap like the PDC and SDN you still will not have all the series guys there. Only a few Lucas will come to PDC and a few WoO will come to the SDN. I don't see and ending to it. I just hope nobody gets offended by someone else's opinion. Guess its something we will have to "agree, that we disagree". lol

Alan

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I remember when the Show Me was pretty cool and had a serious purse. Now, it is just a Lucas race.

[huskerdirt]

A few thoughts on this...

1. 5-7 WoO regulars show up every to Knoxville and the DWTC. It boggles my mind that these conversations come up and iot doesn't even get a sniff. Look at the WoO schedule is your first clue to why that happens.

2. The reason why WoO guys didnt go to Florence is because those guys needed a break. They were on 5-6 week swing out in the Dakotas. Richards said it himself "I need a break". And most on here seem to forget these guys have lives outside the track. Them taking a week off is just like average Joe taking a vacation. They go do something with the family or take a trip.

3. Some of you may not like this part. What might be a certain fans favorite race maybe just another race to most these guys.

4. Even with WoO being off for the SDN or the Topless dont expect a bunch of WoO guys going out of there way to be in Batesville or Greenwood. For example Chub Frank is not gonna drive to Arkansas for a race he's not guarnateed in, at a track he's not familiar with, 15 hours(or whatever)from home. Oh and btw, he's not getting any show up money either. Especially coming off the gauntlet swing they would've just had. Furthermore I don't expect him to be at the SDN because he's gotta get ready for that swing he's about to go on. This isn't Rocket science, these guys are racing to make money. It's a business. They have to make business decisions. People jumped all over Moyer for hitting those races in the Iowa/Wisconsin area and not going to Florence. And during that time he was bringing more money than everybody else except the 6, 0, and the 1 between the two national tours.

5. A few years ago WoO cancelled there Memorial Day swing. How many guys showed up in Wheatland? One, Tim McCreadie. And that whole deal wasn't about Lucas vs WoO or any of that crap.

[old fan]

some would say the World and Dream all else is practice

[badacefaist19]

World, Dream, DTWC are for sure the crown jewels

The Show Me (not so much now that its at Wheatland), North/South, and Topless are right under that to me.

I will say that the sanctioning of these "Crown Jewels" is ruining it by making them points races. Especially if someone running the opposite tour has a race and can't attend one of the "crown jewels" does that make it a "crown jewel" if the best drivers in the country aren't given an opportunity to race their way into it. Also provisionals have killed the likes of most of these crown jewels, if its a true and true crown jewel you should have to race in. Period.

[old fan]

hat why I say World and Dream they are points both points races but not touring points races

[zach51]

If that indoor race by some grace of God is a huge success, that will be one in 5 years.

[old fan]

true oh so true

[atoz promoters]

I am going to comment on the WoO. We, Park Jefferson Speedway, have our first Outlaw race this year the Saturday before the SDN. We did this with the help of the Kosiski's, to organize an event leading into the Silver Dollar Nationals. Park Jefferson is only 100 miles from I 80 Speedway and gives teams the perfect opportunity from the Outlaws, and other nothern racers, to have a completion to the Dakota swing and then head straight to I 80. In addition, we are working with hotels to provide rooms for the teams during the week to help the cost. While some teams will certainly head home, the hope is that this helps the series take advantage of the off weekend to move from Park Jefferson to I 80 and support the Silver Dollar Nationals.

[mskdorf]

If you guys are throwing in PDC then you have to include the Jackson 100. Been a staple of late model racing for about 35 years. Everybody wants to win it.

[TUTY]

Great idea with WOO racing in Park Jefferson the week before SDN. It's hard to say what a crown jewel is, I think it's what you and I get out of it. There are some amazing races through out the US and changes ever year depending on racing surface. I've walked away from BIG races and said well that's boring and just the opisite at some local shows. I great and we are LUCKY to have racing to watch all over the country.

[wvkidrocketfan]

World, Dream, DTWC are for sure the crown jewels



I will say that the sanctioning of these "Crown Jewels" is ruining it by making them points races. Especially if someone running the opposite tour has a race and can't attend one of the "crown jewels" does that make it a "crown jewel" if the best drivers in the country aren't given an opportunity to race their way into it. Also provisionals have killed the likes of most of these crown jewels, if its a true and true crown jewel you should have to race in. Period.

I couldn't agree with this more.

[Bubstr]

As of now, The World 100 is the only crown jewel. When some track beats them on car count, pay out and fan attendance, there may be a new Crown Jewel.

Does it really make a difference if any race has that crown jewel label? It doesn't add cars to the car count, make the racing any better or make the purse bigger. We skip races, because they are too far away, the racers we like to see won't be there or the track puts on a lousy race most of the time. A crown jewel label is not going to change that.

[W2Racing09]

As of now, The World 100 is the only crown jewel. When some track beats them on car count, pay out and fan attendance, there may be a new Crown Jewel.

Does it really make a difference if any race has that crown jewel label? It doesn't add cars to the car count, make the racing any better or make the purse bigger. We skip races, because they are too far away, the racers we like to see won't be there or the track puts on a lousy race most of the time. A crown jewel label is not going to change that.

I can definitely see a minimalist side to it, but not even including the Dream? Come on!

At the very least you have:

World
Dream
Knoxville
N/S
DTWC
USA Nationals

Pretty much everyone goes to all of these races.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[huskerdirt]

World, Dream, DTWC are for sure the crown jewels

The Show Me (not so much now that its at Wheatland), North/South, and Topless are right under that to me.

I will say that the sanctioning of these "Crown Jewels" is ruining it by making them points races. Especially if someone running the opposite tour has a race and can't attend one of the "crown jewels" does that make it a "crown jewel" if the best drivers in the country aren't given an opportunity to race their way into it. Also provisionals have killed the likes of most of these crown jewels, if its a true and true crown jewel you should have to race in. Period.

What ruined "Crown Jewel" races was the fact that guys were no longer willing to drive past 5k and 10k to win shows on there way to a 40k to win show. Much to fans disappointment drivers have gotten smarter to avoid going completely broke.

If you are looking for a race without a provisional you are never gonna find one. I do find the irony that you mentioned Eldora which has the ultimate back door your way into a race provisional. One freaking lap in time trials can put you in the world or the dream.

And you folks wanna talk about racing your way in with no provisionals and put Eldora in that conversation...... SMH.

[cgrace]

instead of provisionals howabout givin theseries guys starting points of some kind and some base travel $$$

[Dougan1640]

I would love to see Lucas and WOO come together and co-sanction 10 races together a year.

Show Me 100
PDC
Topless
Firecracker
N/S 100
DTWC......etc

Come up with 10 of the best races and highest paying races, must also be 100 laps minimum. Take those 10 races and have a mini series with them for a little bonus money.

I know this will never happen but we could dream, you would get huge car counts and you would have huge crowds for these races, would just be amazing.

[Josh Bayko]

I think the term "crown" jewel is extremely overused in dirt late model racing. People try to cram every race that pays 20k to win or above onto the "crown jewel" list. I consider two races "crown jewels": The World 100 and the DTWC. Everything else is just a big race. That doesn't mean they aren't big deals or anything, I just don't think a win at the North South or USA Nationals or whatever carries as much weight with the drivers in terms of resume.

[zach51]

I've never been to the DTWC, but what makes it so special? So basically anything with "World" in the name?

[Josh Bayko]

I've never been to the DTWC, but what makes it so special? So basically anything with "World" in the name?

It's more the tradition of the race. The race has a deep history that puts it on another level from the other high dollar late model races.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

It's more the tradition of the race. The race has a deep history that puts it on another level from the other high dollar late model races.

Exactly. A trophy from the World 100 or the DTWC makes you someone that people remember.

[pink floyd]

50k or more to win makes it a crown jewel in my book. 5 races pay that to win this year and every late model guy in the nation would like to take home a 50k plus check at least one time in their career.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

50k or more to win makes it a crown jewel in my book. 5 races pay that to win this year and every late model guy in the nation would like to take home a 50k plus check at least one time in their career.

But when the money is spent, is the memory gone for those that attended? It can't be just about the money, IMO.

[pink floyd]

But when the money is spent, is the memory gone for those that attended? It can't be just about the money, IMO.

just my opinion, and I can't remember anything anymore anyway. haha

[Pennsboro23]

It's not just about the money, it's the history and prestige more than anything. The World doesn't pay 50, and it's the biggest dirt race on the planet.

[zach51]

There is a list here that is pretty close to accurate haha!

http://www.jonathandavenport.net/49career.html

[W2Racing09]

There is a list here that is pretty close to accurate haha!

http://www.jonathandavenport.net/49career.html

So does that mean the DTWC isn't a Crown Jewel then?

Thanks,
Jeff.

[zach51]

I knew there would be someone chime in. That's why I said "pretty close to accurate" :)

[pink floyd]

It's not just about the money, it's the history and prestige more than anything. The World doesn't pay 50, and it's the biggest dirt race on the planet.

it's almost there.

[TUTY]

Cedar Lake Speedway USA Nationals works good because of the FANSFUND. 12 cars come because they get paid to show. The best Lucas guys come plus all the WOO guys which usually nets 55 cars at a average.

[badacefaist19]

I was talking about using a provisional through a said sanction (WoO/Lucas/etc), past champion provisional is something that I can understand, I know that Eldora does all kind of provisionals (fast qualifier,track,past champion).

What I am saying is that I think it is how it "should" be, but I have no idea what I'm talking about, I have never tried to run a race.

I do know that there are too many "crown jewels"

Nascar has the Daytona 500, Brickyard, maybe Bristol (in my opinion)
Indy 500
AMA has Monster Cup

It doesn't need to be many and really it is just something the drivers/fans have come up with. No right or wrong answer I guess.

[zach51]

^^Agreed. Lucas Oil has taken the "Crown Jewel" thing and run with it for their TV races too. It is any race that pays $20,000 or more to them......I wouldn't call it a Crown Jewel, but that Clash @ the Mag they run down here is pretty good, dang nice facility.

[Bubstr]

I can definitely see a minimalist side to it, but not even including the Dream? Come on!

At the very least you have:

World
Dream
Knoxville
N/S
DTWC
USA Nationals

Pretty much everyone goes to all of these races.

Thanks,
Jeff.

The Dream is just high paid practice for the World. Not everyone shows up for it.

Knoxville is in my opinion one of the 3 Premo races of the year as far as racing. Sorry no car count. The other two are not on your list.

N/S, DTWC and USA Nationals are like Knoxville, great races but not every racer thinks they are important enough to go enter. We have tracks that put on better shows, pay more money but don't put it together with the entry list or the fan count.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The Dream is just high paid practice for the World. Not everyone shows up for it.

Knoxville is in my opinion one of the 3 Premo races of the year as far as racing. Sorry no car count. The other two are not on your list.

N/S, DTWC and USA Nationals are like Knoxville, great races but not every racer thinks they are important enough to go enter. We have tracks that put on better shows, pay more money but don't put it together with the entry list or the fan count.

Lanigan hasn't even been rolling his car down the hill for the N/S.

[waaac77]

He should be there this year unless he drops off the Lucas tour