Suspension rules get locked down ....

[RacerX10]

See http://www.compdirt.com/results/2016/news031516.html

I guess pretty much everybody will be adopting these rules.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

See http://www.compdirt.com/results/2016/news031516.html

I guess pretty much everybody will be adopting these rules.

They are all going to look similiar to this. I would like to see brake floater allowed. We just need the Rocket house car to show up with one at a Lucas event.

Then it can be determined to be legal like the bearing mount for the limiter chain that isn't legal by the letter of the rules.

[billetbirdcage]

See http://www.compdirt.com/results/2016/news031516.html

I guess pretty much everybody will be adopting these rules.

They combined some of the lucus stuff and USMTS Stuff as well as others, Read both and tell me who actually has someone that knows something about the race cars and can actually write them better?

I can tell you it ain't Lucas, lol USMTS actually did a pretty good job of wording their rules and knew exactly what they were trying to say and confine and did a good job of doing that in their rules.


By Lucas rules: Bearing chain limiters, swivel shock mounts and numerous other things are illegal by Lucas rules, thus you have the Cluster F##K that happened with Josh/Lucas Tech at Florida.

That all being said: There is more new rules coming, mark my words.

[7uptruckracer]

They need to just go ahead and write in what Pistons we can use in the shocks like NASCAR does with LMSC. All the things they are having to do now to get the cars to act like they were acting they are doing with Pistons. They did do a good job with the wording I just looked at the FUEL series we run under this year and don't see where I can't run a spring rod, don't remember if I can run split cages ;)



They combined some of the lucus stuff and USMTS Stuff as well as others, Read both and tell me who actually has someone that knows something about the race cars and can actually write them better?

I can tell you it ain't Lucas, lol USMTS actually did a pretty good job of wording their rules and knew exactly what they were trying to say and confine and did a good job of doing that in their rules.


By Lucas rules: Bearing chain limiters, swivel shock mounts and numerous other things are illegal by Lucas rules, thus you have the Cluster F##K that happened with Josh/Lucas Tech at Florida.

That all being said: There is more new rules coming, mark my words.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Tracks have a prayer of teching when they can measure wheelbase and roll the car over a set of scales. We are quickly reaching the point where there isn't adequate time or expertise to tech these rules.

[RacerX10]

What are they trying to do with these new rules ?

[FlatTire]

The average tech man does good to check tires, spoiler, and a few pieces on the body. No way they can enforce all of this. If you arent going to actively search for this stuff then its really not a rule! Its just words out of the rule book.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

What are they trying to do with these new rules ?

Depends on who you ask! It is supposed to save you money. But, I have to throw away stuff I have owned for 20 years. As 7up eluded to, it will just get people working on things you can't see where you will have to be a wizard in fluid mechanics or know the right people and have a huge wallet. They got rid of some things that honestly made the cars easier to drive. Easier to drive cars should actually level the playing field a bit.

It is an attempt to keep the ghost of Rumley future from winning all the races.

[billetbirdcage]

The average tech man does good to check tires, spoiler, and a few pieces on the body. No way they can enforce all of this. If you arent going to actively search for this stuff then its really not a rule! Its just words out of the rule book.

It's generally not the tech guy you worry about finding anything, it's the other racers that see something and complain to the tech guy to do something about it. FACT!


FREE KEVIN

[Matt49]

The minute a track throws me out for a bearing chain limiter or a brake floater, I'm going to throw a fit. That will include everything up to pointing out illegal bodies on EVERY late model at the track. When was the last time you saw a late model body that tapered evenly on both sides from 76" at the back of the doors to 72" at the spoiler? They have failed to tech that to the point that EVERYBODY builds their cars with a flat right side and sometimes even flaring OUT. I could spend all day listing the things I see not legal on bodies and my car has most of those features also. I've considered running an 8-1/2" spoiler just to see how long I could get away with it. Nobody is checking it and even most competitors wouldn't notice the extra 1/2".
They CAN'T enforce the rules they already have so they come up with new rules. Sanctioning bodies are about like government in that way. I digress...

[Krooser]

I love the body rules that state you must run an American mfg's body or a Toyota Camry... maybe if street cars looked like refrigerators...

And that no left spring in front of the axle is gonna kill my chance to run my ancient MB on the circuit... d*mn it!

[billetbirdcage]

The minute a track throws me out for a bearing chain limiter or a brake floater, I'm going to throw a fit. That will include everything up to pointing out illegal bodies on EVERY late model at the track. When was the last time you saw a late model body that tapered evenly on both sides from 76" at the back of the doors to 72" at the spoiler? They have failed to tech that to the point that EVERYBODY builds their cars with a flat right side and sometimes even flaring OUT. I could spend all day listing the things I see not legal on bodies and my car has most of those features also. I've considered running an 8-1/2" spoiler just to see how long I could get away with it. Nobody is checking it and even most competitors wouldn't notice the extra 1/2".
They CAN'T enforce the rules they already have so they come up with new rules. Sanctioning bodies are about like government in that way. I digress...

An 8 3/8" spoiler took them about 3/4 of a season to finally catch after they measured it around 7 or 8 times, IIRC.

I noticed the tech guy hooked the tape measure on the spoiler material and measured up the spoiler, but did lay the flexible tape on the lip to measure total length (he did that part right). Since this is how he measured, I moved the spoiler up .375" up on the hinge and basically made the spoiler .375" longer but he wasn't measuring from the deck, just the material of the spoiler. A fill in tech guy finally caught it and made me fix it, lol.

[Punisher88]

😂😂 I like your style billet!

[billetbirdcage]

 I like your style billet!

What's funny is I'm not sure I ever seen or remember anyone measuring width? The extra height I had was only 4.5% more area, hardly enough to get disqualified for but fun to mess with them anyways.

[billetbirdcage]

Usmts good at rules. I just spit up all over my computer. You should go read their rules.

oem roof, window opening etc. Last time I looked. By the written rules they should be running pinto vega roof etc.

I have never read their entire rule book, I only read the new "RED" additions to the suspension part they added a week or so ago. That is what I commented about.

[Josh Bayko]

The only people that are gonna ever truly get teched on all this garbage are the Rumleys and the Rocket house car. Everybody else can pretty much get away with just about anything they want. I feel bad for the racers that spend/have spent all sorts of money to get legal when nobody's ever gonna check them anyways.

[RCJ]

Has MARS adopted these style of rules.Their web site still has the same rules as always,but you know how websites dont always get up dated.

[billetbirdcage]

Has MARS adopted these style of rules.Their web site still has the same rules as always,but you know how websites dont always get up dated.

Not yet, they are under "Dirt car" which is UMP, WoO, and Mars. As soon as the WoO group defines/decides on the wording they want they will release their version of the rules, now when that happens could be 1 week, 3 months, 2017, or never. There is also a few other series waiting on the WoO group so they can copy what they do.

[Josh Bayko]

Not yet, they are under "Dirt car" which is UMP, WoO, and Mars. As soon as the WoO group defines/decides on the wording they want they will release their version of the rules, now when that happens could be 1 week, 3 months, 2017, or never. There is also a few other series waiting on the WoO group so they can copy what they do.

If I remember correctly, the WoO has said no rule changes for this year. If there are any rule changes coming out of the meetings of the committee, it wouldn't go into effect until next season.

[dunn5]

WoO is about the worst at tech. They come by and make the local guys change stuff that the WoO guy one pit stall over has his worse than ours.

[billetbirdcage]

If I remember correctly, the WoO has said no rule changes for this year. If there are any rule changes coming out of the meetings of the committee, it wouldn't go into effect until next season.

You see that in print somewhere? Because from what I gathered, they are clarifying wording before they are finalized. When I asked the director of another series when they would have their rules out (they said they were forthcoming, shortly - IE said that 2 months ago) I got the reply they are waiting on WoO to decide on the wording and should be along shortly.

I have yet to see any actual official comment on if or when, but every one else seems to think its still coming and for this year. Maybe I missed it and I have talked to guys that went to the meeting in Florida and all seems to think it was still coming for this year or least they never said anything about not until next year.

[RacerX10]

But, I have to throw away stuff I have owned for 20 years.

Like what ?

[billetbirdcage]

Like what ?

Per Lucas wording you can't run: (Off the top of my head without going back an looking again.)

Brake floater, LR spring in front birdcage, LR spring in front on clamp bracket, Swivel shock mounts, bearing chain limiter, spring rod 4-link, 2 RR springs, 2 axle dampeners like a Rayburn.


Now I doubt you will get D/Q'ed for it, but by the letter of the rules you can't run any of that now. Maybe they will update or add to the rules, but I doubt it and will just not tech it or let it pass.

[sobe92]

The bearing chain holder has been approved in Lucas Oil Races after Kid Rocket was almost DQed for it during speedweeks.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

He doesn't even race anymore been a few years, he is helping some guy he said on here.

Not sure what you would have from 20 years ago to throw away. But should be a interesting reply. Maybe he was 20 years ahead of the game?

Billet already answered for me. Brake floaters, 2 RR springs, reverse mount axle damper, spring rod, etc

[RCJ]

WoO released the rules.I 'M the lowest buck racer you will ever meet.The have made something I have been working on for 2 years illegal.So much for thing outside the box.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

WoO released the rules.I 'M the lowest buck racer you will ever meet.The have made something I have been working on for 2 years illegal.So much for thing outside the box.

Guys like us ain't wanted.

[SuperEight]

What are they trying to do with these new rules ?

Slow down the the Rumley/Davenport juggernaut. They need to just let go and simplify.

1) Shocks can't be directly connected to each other, by wire or hydraulic line.
2) 1-shock per wheel

Simpler is always the easier cheapest course. Outlawing spring rods and brake floaters only puts companies out of business and cripples ingenuity that took decades to perfect. I think these 'NEW" rules pushes more teams away from attempting to comply with Lucas. Obviously there attempt at slowing down Rumley/Davenport with "NEW" rules had little or no effect. Next they'll outlaw having a degree or above average intelligence. We don't need a NASCRAP of dirt.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Slow down the the Rumley/Davenport juggernaut. They need to just let go and simplify.

1) Shocks can't be directly connected to each other, by wire or hydraulic line.
2) 1-shock per wheel

Simpler is always the easier cheapest course. Outlawing spring rods and brake floaters only puts companies out of business and cripples ingenuity that took decades to perfect. I think these 'NEW" rules pushes more teams away from attempting to comply with Lucas. Obviously there attempt at slowing down Rumley/Davenport with "NEW" rules had little or no effect. Next they'll outlaw having a degree or above average intelligence. We don't need a NASCRAP of dirt.

At the 2020 World 100, you will sign in, get your allotment of tires from Dirt Car, and rent your shocks. 25 teams will enter.

[a25rjr]

Slow down the the Rumley/Davenport juggernaut. They need to just let go and simplify.

1) Shocks can't be directly connected to each other, by wire or hydraulic line.
2) 1-shock per wheel

Simpler is always the easier cheapest course. Outlawing spring rods and brake floaters only puts companies out of business and cripples ingenuity that took decades to perfect. I think these 'NEW" rules pushes more teams away from attempting to comply with Lucas. Obviously there attempt at slowing down Rumley/Davenport with "NEW" rules had little or no effect. Next they'll outlaw having a degree or above average intelligence. We don't need a NASCRAP of dirt.

Why was it aimed at them? They maybe race 6 or so times with WOO! Obviously, that isn't the case!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Why was it aimed at them? They maybe race 6 or so times with WOO! Obviously, that isn't the case!

If you notice, their rules say "unified rules package" or something similar. They felt they had to go along with what was already started.

[a25rjr]

If you notice, their rules say "unified rules package" or something similar. They felt they had to go along with what was already started.

Not really buying your argument there. I believe WOO/UMP are more professional than that, to make rules against one team, that's not even a "threat" to their series!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Not really buying your argument there. I believe WOO/UMP are more professional than that, to make rules against one team, that's not even a "threat" to their series!
I didn't say WoO made rules against the 6. I said they made their rules match what was happening from Lucas down.

Lucas are the ones who made rules against a single team. The dominoes started falling in an effort to keep all the cars on the same rules. It is quite simple.

[old fan]

if you would read the lastest from woo its uniform rules for rear suspension

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

if you would read the lastest from woo its uniform rules for rear suspension

Exactly what I said.

[a25rjr]

I didn't say WoO made rules against the 6. I said they made their rules match what was happening from Lucas down.

Lucas are the ones who made rules against a single team. The dominoes started falling in an effort to keep all the cars on the same rules. It is quite simple.

That's not entirely true. Several teams were experimenting with spring rods.

[old fan]

the rules were set back in feb, John Darby from NASCAR help write the rules

[RCJ]

i was wondering if that was the same John Darby.What does a nascar guy know about late models?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

That's not entirely true. Several teams were experimenting with spring rods.

I ran spring rods in 1997. That is not new technology! Any suspension with a solid rear axle has always been legal until 2016. It isn't now because people are scared of a guy named Kevin Rumley. End of story

Everything that got outlawed was simply collateral damage in an attempt to slow the 6 car and rid it of a device the rules guys didn't understand.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

the rules were set back in feb, John Darby from NASCAR help write the rules

That is too perfect. And makes too much sense.

What a joke!

[a25rjr]

I ran spring rods in 1997. That is not new technology! Any suspension with a solid rear axle has always been legal until 2016. It isn't now because people are scared of a guy named Kevin Rumley. End of story

Everything that got outlawed was simply collateral damage in an attempt to slow the 6 car and rid it of a device the rules guys didn't understand.

So did I. Was one of the first to run Penske's tracking dampner. But, you didn't see anyone running two or more on the same side?

Two racing organizations do NOT spend all that time and money to slow one car down. Get real! Forrest would have had Ritchies head on a platter if he was on that type of a witch hunt!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

So did I. Was one of the first to run Penske's tracking dampner. But, you didn't see anyone running two or more on the same side?

Two racing organizations do NOT spend all that time and money to slow one car down. Get real! Forrest would have had Ritchies head on a platter if he was on that type of a witch hunt!

There was no other reason to go NASCAR style with the rules. None. Late models were not broken.

Who cares if a guy runs 4 spring rods? He isn't going to consistently be fast.

[old fan]

That is too perfect. And makes too much sense.What a joke!why is it a joke most sanctions will have the same rules isn't that a good thing

[old fan]

i was wondering if that was the same John Darby.What does a nascar guy know about late models?he doesn't, he was there to make the riules as complete as possible some guy name Roger Slack was also involved

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

why is it a joke most sanctions will have the same rules isn't that a good thing

Dirt racing was the place you could still go in motorsports to see innovation. Why go the NASCAR route where they have a boring, dying product as they have continued to pile on more and more rules year after year?

[old fan]

http://myinforms.com/en-us/a/29071696-woo-lms-adopts-new-suspension-rules/ well its gotten out of hand

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The generic comments in that story say nothing. We already had broad accessibility. Any suspension was OK. Now, what you have likely is not in some way.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Going from a monoleaf to a 4 link was radical. It was OK, because the other elite teams could copy it and it didn't dominate right away.

[grt74]

what has happened is the nascar guys like the dirt late models because of the freedom there is in it a far as an engineering stand point,so testing and trying new stuff is more important than ever to keep up(and i think the sport just can't afford it or support it),which in turn costs money,rumley and those guys along with davenport(the guy can drive too)are very sharp people also,along with bloomer,richards,and a few others,but the days of an up and coming driver getting it done with these guys is almost gone,it just takes to much time and money for the reward,and having a job 5 days a week even at 100,000 per year just won't work(remember now a job that pays that good or better is going to take up some time),and I'm sorry to say crate is falling right in there with it,just my opinion

[a25rjr]

There was no other reason to go NASCAR style with the rules. None. Late models were not broken.

Who cares if a guy runs 4 spring rods? He isn't going to consistently be fast.

4 spring rods at $300 each, 1 extra lr shock at $800 each, Hourly testing expenses at $500/hr.....Im sure the "small" teams greatly appreciate the new rules.

It appears it hasn't slowed down jd,josh, or scott....but it surely has saved them some money!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

4 spring rods at $300 each, 1 extra lr shock at $800 each, Hourly testing expenses at $500/hr.....Im sure the "small" teams greatly appreciate the new rules.

It appears it hasn't slowed down jd,josh, or scott....but it surely has saved them some money!

Those guys test a lot. And will test a lot if we are on truck arms. It isn't like they are going to quit improving their car because we have a different rules package.

Those costs are laughable when you look at the number of tires they put on during a race event. The cost of a wide bore engine that should have never been allowed into competition. The fuel they put in the rig to go race in the Dakotas and Minnesota.

Then, just like the trailer full of strange oval axles for each track and event, those items you listed above will result in little to no consistent speed benefit.

Fools will poor their money down a rabbit hole if they want to, regardless of rules.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I hate the new rules. I can't afford 10 new tires a night. But I can dream things to speed my car up and build them for a couple hundred bucks.

[a25rjr]

Those guys test a lot. And will test a lot if we are on truck arms. It isn't like they are going to quit improving their car because we have a different rules package.

Those costs are laughable when you look at the number of tires they put on during a race event. The cost of a wide bore engine that should have never been allowed into competition. The fuel they put in the rig to go race in the Dakotas and Minnesota.

Then, just like the trailer full of strange oval axles for each track and event, those items you listed above will result in little to no consistent speed benefit.

Fools will poor their money down a rabbit hole if they want to, regardless of rules.

Tire costs?....Lucas only allows 6 per event, unless you have a flat.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Tire costs?....Lucas only allows 6 per event, unless you have a flat.

That is the only positive rule Lucas came up with.

And that is only Lucas and only new this year.

But, you kinda got me on one point...

[Matt49]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
You show me the size of the rule book and I'll tell you what it costs to be competitive in that class of racing.
It happened with NASCAR and it will happen to late model racing and I'm afraid we're already on that slippery slope.
We used to race karts and most tracks in karts also operated under "unified" rules published by the WKA. Every year a new rule book came out and every year it was thicker. And every year it got more and more expensive to race.
People that don't race can't seem to wrap their brains around this concept. The smaller you make the box, the more time and money you are going to have to spend to find speed in that box. NASCAR has a HUGE rule book all written in the name of keeping the cars as "stock" as possible. And look what it costs to field a competitive cup team. But all of those rules were written to keep cost down!?!? Get a clue people!!!

[a25rjr]

I've said it before and I'll say it again:
You show me the size of the rule book and I'll tell you what it costs to be competitive in that class of racing.
It happened with NASCAR and it will happen to late model racing and I'm afraid we're already on that slippery slope.
We used to race karts and most tracks in karts also operated under "unified" rules published by the WKA. Every year a new rule book came out and every year it was thicker. And every year it got more and more expensive to race.
People that don't race can't seem to wrap their brains around this concept. The smaller you make the box, the more time and money you are going to have to spend to find speed in that box. NASCAR has a HUGE rule book all written in the name of keeping the cars as "stock" as possible. And look what it costs to field a competitive cup team. But all of those rules were written to keep cost down!?!? Get a clue people!!!

I basically agree with you and mbracer on those points.....but if dlm racing series don't do something, it will turn into f1 style of racing. Only affordable to the very wealthy and huge corporations.

So, I'll put this discussion into your court....what rule changes would you make, on the chassis side?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I basically agree with you and mbracer on those points.....but if dlm racing series don't do something, it will turn into f1 style of racing. Only affordable to the very wealthy and huge corporations.

So, I'll put this discussion into your court....what rule changes would you make, on the chassis side?

I would get the bodies back to the early 2000s and throw out all the manufactured stuff that caused the rules to be bent from that point to begin with. I don't care how much money you kick in a point fund.

Outlawing the Penske inerter stuff is fine. Those are very expensive. The connected shock stuff being outlawed is probably not a bad idea either.

Beyond that, leave chassis rules alone. You can't reduce cost effectively there. Your best hope is to limit aero dependence.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

You don't even race you said you quit 3 years ago..

Never said anything about quitting. I have a car in my possession right now.

[Matt49]

Okay...I'll rant...

What rule changes would I make on the chassis side? NONE

The problem that we have here is that sanctioning bodies tend to behave like governments: They have a set of rules that they either don't know how to or don't want to enforce. Things get out of hand and then they decide the best solution is to come up with NEW rules. It's the definition of insanity.

The current body rules go almost completely unenforced. The current engine rules go completely unenforced. And the tire rules are racing's version of crony capitalism (back to my government analogy). And also much like government, the people writing the rules don’t understand the supposed problems that they are writing rules to supposedly fix. So let’s hit on each of these shall we?

Enforcement of the current body rules doesn’t require NASCAR-style body templates. A guy needs a tape measure and a straight edge and 30 cars can be inspected (to some degree) in under 2 hours. Pretty much every car at every late model race you ever go to has multiple violations of the existing body rules. An obvious one that almost EVERY car is in violation of is Lucas Oil rule 12.6.A. To provide some background for those that may not know, the max width of the top of the body (decking) at the back of the doors is 76” and the max width of the top of the body at the back is 72”. Rule 12.6.A is the rule that states that the rear quarter panels must taper evenly on both sides from the 76” at the back of the doors to the 72” at the spoiler. I haven’t seen a single late model body constructed that way in over 10 years. Everybody builds their bodies so that all of the taper is in the left quarter panel leaving the right quarter panel flat to act like a sail board in the corners. This rule is not unique to Lucas. WoO rule 15.7.7.C is pretty much the exact same. It’s a rule that has been around for a long time and simply not enforced to the point that it’s a joke that it is even in the rule book anymore.

Engines are the main expense that needs to be brought under control and once again we see an unenforced rule that has caused the cost of engines to sky-rocket over the last few years. It’s already been mentioned but it is the spread bore motors. Late model racing rule books have, for a very long time, had the “based on a factory design” engine rule. The word “American” used to be in there somewhere too but it probably offended a minority group so they had to pull it out. The spirit and intent of this rule was to keep the cars using blocks that were at least BASED on Chevy/Ford/Mopar small and big block dimensions of motors that were in FACTORY produced automobiles. What we have today instead is a class dominated by spread bore motors that have never appeared in a factory produced vehicle while the CT525 (based on a Vette motor) is completely illegal under most sanctioning bodies because everybody is scared of what kind of magic lingers in that there coil pack.

Tires? Tire rules are a win/lose in my opinion. A single tire rules presents its own set of unique problems depending on the rule and an open tire rule presents its own set of unique problems. The series that I race has a two compound rule and I actually like it. We’ve got a soft tire and a hard tire. Groove them how you want, sipe them how you want, run any size you want, etc. but it has to be one of those compounds. And tire doping rules, of all the things they actually try to enforce, is one of the most difficult things to enforce accurately. There is no way to scientifically prove that a tire was doped by the owner. There are all kinds of things that can happen to that tire on accident to alter its chemical make-up WITHOUT enhancing its performance. But I do find it ironic that sanctioning bodies take this so seriously despite it being one of the few things that is almost impossible to accurately enforce. That’s all I have to say about that.

And last but not least is the people writing the rules not understanding the subject matter. A shining example of this is the often used rule (usually in a crate or limited classes) that states “no canister shocks”. Usually with the word “no” in all caps to make sure we know they really mean business here. Only a person that knows NOTHING about shock technology would craft a rule like that. There is no magic in that canister and you can go buy another set of shocks with the same technology in a bulb for pretty much the same cost. So while these geniuses thought they were saving everybody money by outlawing Ohlins shocks, everybody goes out and buys a set of Integra IDAs for about $4K and obsoletes the set of Ohlins that cost him $4K. That’s just plain idiotic.

But the rule that takes the cake when it comes to just plain ignorant wording is the one that states “no live axle rear ends.” So are we supposed to be running front wheel drive? Because every automotive engineering book I’ve ever seen defines a “live” axle as one that also transmits power to the wheels I guess I’ll leave the quick change gears in the trailer and push my car around the track best as I can. SMH.

But chassis rules on the MECHANICS of the suspension need to be left alone. I agree with the rules outlawing inerters and active suspensions. Hell, even F1 has outlawed this type of stuff. But to get rid of things like spring rods and brake floaters is asinine. And this nonsense that Lucas has in their rulebook about any chassis or component design being submitted to Lucas before it will be allowed in competition?!?!?! That’s basically just saying, “We’re not sure what these new rules really mean so just bring it to us and we’ll let you know if you can run it.” WTF is that? Why would I ever spend the time and effort fabricating something new that apparently fits within the scope of the rules just to submit it to the sanctioning body for them to ban it before it ever hits the track??? And their reason for banning will probably be, “that’s a pretty fancy contraption there and we don’t know how it works so we’re gonna have to put a stop to that.” As if they haven’t already set precedent for that...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Really? You want me to go find where you said you QUIT 3 years ago and are helping someone now? wtf.. whiners will whine.

You won't find it. It has been longer than that since I drove. But I have never been out of the sport. Flame on!

[Josh Bayko]

You guys do know that the WoO rules stated no spring rods long before any of this stuff, right? And that they never actually checked anybody for them anyways. I don't think anybody realizes that most of these new rules are just lip service. If you show up with a car, as long as what you're doing that's outside of the box isn't extremely obvious or gaudy, they're going to let you run it.

[SuperEight]

Nominating for post of the year.