Is this really necessary ?

[RacerX10]

Does a dirt late model have to look like this (rolled over on RF):

http://www.onedirt.com/files/2014/04/Rocket-Chassis-House-Car.jpg

... to be fast these days ? Does anybody at all still run factory setups / no bump stop / no stack / etc and do well ?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The more stop and go your track is, the better your chances of success with a lf pulling setup.

If it is momentum, you have no prayer.

[mod88s]

What do you mean Lf pulling set up?

[Dirtmod13]

Lifting LF off ground to transfer weight to the rear on exit

[RacerX10]

The more stop and go your track is, the better your chances of success with a lf pulling setup.

If it is momentum, you have no prayer.

Please correct me, but isn't that a soft RF setup rather than a "LF pulling" setup ? That car looks like what I see all the pro's doing, but I don't really have the resources to keep up with all that. That LF isn't pulling at all, it's just collapsed over on the RF. That RF tire is insane .. like it's not even attached to the car any more :)

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Please correct me, but isn't that a soft RF setup rather than a "LF pulling" setup ? That car looks like what I see all the pro's doing, but I don't really have the resources to keep up with all that. That LF isn't pulling at all, it's just collapsed over on the RF. That RF tire is insane .. like it's not even attached to the car any more :)

Your picture is a modern, soft rf setup.

I assumed you were asking about the merits of more of an old school deal where you are not down on the rf. If you are not, it will tend to lift the lf. That deal will not keep up with the picture on a track with fast corners due to aero and many other issues.

[RacerX10]

Your picture is a modern, soft rf setup.

I assumed you were asking about the merits of more of an old school deal where you are not down on the rf. If you are not, it will tend to lift the lf. That deal will not keep up with the picture on a track with fast corners due to aero and many other issues.

Yah I was talking about the photo I posted with soft RF. I'm just wondering if pretty much everybody is running that now, or just the people with a $3,500.00 spring crusher-squisher thing in their $200,000.00 trailer. Eg. can the weekly / casual guys can still have fun / be competitive without the soft right front and the incessant tweaking that I'm told goes along with it ?

I've been searching the archives here for info about the soft right front, and you see posts from a few guys who says "lots of people are winning races without a bump stop or stacked spring setup" .. but those posts are from 2/3/4 years ago so I'm wondering if that still holds true.

I think it's probably just a perspective thing. You have guys like (probably) yourself and say Matt49 who spend a LOT of time on racing, and then there are guys like me who have regular things to do and just race casually for fun .. and don't have the time or resources to mess with tweaking bump stop height to the nearest 16th of an inch.

[RacerX10]

your starting out racing in a super late model

Not starting out. "Returning to" after an extended hiatus :)

Changes the calculus a bit.

[lindsey97]

World of Outlaws Points: 1st
Starts: 18
Wins: 9
Top-Five's: 15
Top-10's: 18

I copied this straight from the Home Page on his website. Don't know when the last update was done. Hard to argue with the results.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yah I was talking about the photo I posted with soft RF. I'm just wondering if pretty much everybody is running that now, or just the people with a $3,500.00 spring crusher-squisher thing in their $200,000.00 trailer. Eg. can the weekly / casual guys can still have fun / be competitive without the soft right front and the incessant tweaking that I'm told goes along with it ?

I've been searching the archives here for info about the soft right front, and you see posts from a few guys who says "lots of people are winning races without a bump stop or stacked spring setup" .. but those posts are from 2/3/4 years ago so I'm wondering if that still holds true.

I think it's probably just a perspective thing. You have guys like (probably) yourself and say Matt49 who spend a LOT of time on racing, and then there are guys like me who have regular things to do and just race casually for fun .. and don't have the time or resources to mess with tweaking bump stop height to the nearest 16th of an inch.

I honestly don't think it is as hard as you seem to think it is. You can get going on a deal that should be relatively consistent.

[RacerX10]

I honestly don't think it is as hard as you seem to think it is. You can get going on a deal that should be relatively consistent.

thanks for the encouraging words ...

All the resident experts here keep telling me its really hard to get a bump setup "just right" , and if its not right you will be running headfirst into a retaining wall :). I just read a post on here that said literally that !

kinda got me spooked a bit

[AmickRacing]

Some of the tracks (ok most) that I run at are not bump stop friendly. A few times they are semi smooth, but usually they are fairly rough or "this is stupid why am I even out here" rough. While I hate running on tracks like that, it does seem to make it a bit more forgiving with the current "norm" of suspensions.

[Matt49]

The soft RF setup doesn't necessarily require a bump stop or a stack deal to make it work. There are cars running on a 250 RF spring (with no bump stop) winning races all over the country. Camber curves, aero consistency, and overall car attitude are the name of the game. We have a new car this year and trying a new nose. Our first trip out, we just couldn't keep the RF down where it needed to be and that is the ONLY thing we have been working on in the shop this week...getting the car setup so that the on-track attitude is what we want. SOME of it is springs but MOST of it is shocks in my opinion. We're on a new shock package this year also which is making things more difficult.
Anyway...a lot of it just takes time to test it and figure out what works. Just stay away from bump stops is the best advice I can give anyone that doesn't have the ability to do a lot of testing. And if you're on a track that is anything but smooth as glass you are completely wasting your time with bump stop setups. Just my opinion.

[grt74]

I honestly don't think it is as hard as you seem to think it is. You can get going on a deal that should be relatively consistent.

it takes alot of homework, not alot of money,hell for that matter you could cut up an old tire and use it for bump stops,and before anyone says anything YES I've seen it done,its all about homework today,along with testing,but if your smart about it and take the time,the results will come,the reason everything is so high for the most part(except for shocks but you can get them revalved,or do it yourself),is the i want it now attitude,everything but shocks can be done pretty reasonable,even an engine if you know what your doing,my biggest complaint today is all the dam tires

[a25rjr]

We ran very well in a Smack and BWRC using a 275 and a soft Christmas tree bump stop from RE.

[Matt49]

a25rjr, were you able to identify how deep into the bump you were? I think that's the key thing on the xmas tree stuff and I would imagine it was integral to your success with it. To grt74's point: homework! But RE does a great job of providing the data so back to my point of not needing a spring smasher.

[a25rjr]

Honestly, no. With our car on the scales, we tried a couple of different springs and bump stops and ended up with this combination. Jerry at Shy helped us tune our Ohlins to it, and it was even better.

Its amazing what you can learn with ratchet straps and your car on scales! lol

[Matt49]

Honestly, no. With our car on the scales, we tried a couple of different springs and bump stops and ended up with this combination. Jerry at Shy helped us tune our Ohlins to it, and it was even better.

Its amazing what you can learn with ratchet straps and your car on scales! lol

For sure :-)
And amazing how one can benefit from a good relationship with a good shock builder. I've been preaching this for a while.

[RacerX10]

Opinions seem to vary wildly on the subject of how hard it is or isn't to get a bump setup working :)

[a25rjr]

For sure :-)
And amazing how one can benefit from a good relationship with a good shock builder. I've been preaching this for a while.

No doubt, Matt! I hope Jerry can keep up with the relationships he made at Shy. He'll def put Afco back on the map with their shock program.

[grt74]

Opinions seem to vary wildly on the subject of how hard it is or isn't to get a bump setup working :)

its just alot of work,and every driver is different,some want more drive and the ones that like to stay on the gas like less drive(momentum type drivers),i know this I've never had any of the guys i have helped run the exact same thing,shocks are a very big factor in these setups,thats why i build my own stuff to an extent(ill get the curves i want from my builder,because i don't want to spend three days trying to find it, but i may change my shim stack for more or less control)the biggest problem that most people don't understand with double adjustable shocks is that there is only a 150lbs to 200lbs worth of adjustment,sometimes thats just not enough,
these setups will require good notes,your not going to win with these setups right out of the box unless you test it and get it where you want it
some of the national guys have 5-10 rf shocks or more and there all adjustable,if that tells you anything

[JustAddDirt]

if you do not have access to data acquisition, spring smashers etc,etc, a go pro camera works well, and they are relatively inexpensive. I play with one watching the RF to get it to do what I want, when I want. I watch the pull bar (I run a modified) and watch the lr and lf suspension. you can learn a great deal watching that stuff.
once you get a visual on where the suspension is moving to in travel, you can somewhat get the same attitude on the scales and get a good idea what the numbers are and start playing with LR droop, spring combos, bar settings weight placement. you cannot get it exact on the scales to track comparisons, but some data is netter than none

[fastford]

No doubt, Matt! I hope Jerry can keep up with the relationships he made at Shy. He'll def put Afco back on the map with their shock program.

jerry has practically unlimited resources now that hes at afco , he has helped me tremendously, but you have to be able to explain to him exactly what you want or need to do. With out proper info from the driver, no one can work magic......

[let-r-eat]

Why is that car attitude faster? That's the question you need to answer OP.

[a25rjr]

More: aerodynamic, increased downforce
: loaded left rear, increased forward bite
: more roll steer, allowing car to turn better when on the gas

[grt74]

Why is that car attitude faster? That's the question you need to answer OP.

aero,it will almost create a suction effect on the car,you want to keep as much air as you can from getting under the car,and then use the air thats hits the car(think of all the money we spend on going faster when air is free if you understand how to use it)