scaling question

[mod88s]

So, strange thing here. Have a Gen x car all updates. Car is at recommended ride heights except Left rear is around 9 1/2 instead of 8 1/2. It sits up too high which throws off the bar angles and jbar angle also. Weird thing is It only has about 65 lbs of bite. Heres the deal. Ive been around racing for about 30 years, I know how to scale a car and all that sort of stuff. I want to put about 100lbs of bite in the car but cant seem to get it to change. Seems like with the left rear that high it would have alot more than 65lbs of bite. The left front is already backed off all the way so i cant take anymore turns out of that. the right front and right rear are exactly where they are supposed to be. So my thinking is that i cant put anymore turns in Left rear so I try to take turns out of the right rear thinking it will also drop the right front, then i can just put turns back into right front to increase bite and raise right side to where its supposed to be. When I take turns out of right rear, it doesnt drop the right front at all. This car is very straight and in great shape,, nothing is binding, shocks are good, everything almost all new. Just doesnt make any sense.. What are people running for ride heights on each corner and how much bite?

[keeks]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't taking turns out of the left front make bite lower?

[slmcrewchief99]

Get with Mastersbilt and have them give you the center to center length at ride height for the shock. You could possible have the shock bracket on the birdcage bolted in the wrong holes. Measure and see what your rear drop is. Make sure it measures out correctly. 1 other thing is make sure your left lower is in the correct hole bolted to the birdcage. If its wrong it will change it quite a bit.

[a25rjr]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but won't taking turns out of the left front make bite lower?

It will make it higher, because you will be taking weight off the rr as well.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Get your ride heights correct, ignoring wheel weights. Then start with the 2 turns on the rear 1 on each front technique in the direction you need to go.

[mod88s]

Thats what I did to get where Im at. Thats why it doesnt make any sense. Im adjusted to the max. Right now if I took about 10 turns out of the LR, All of the ride heights would be right on the money, i might have to put a few turns in LF.. but then i would have negative bite. You can see my dilema... have never had this happen before

[mod88s]

There are 3 holes on the LR birdcage for the lower link. Which hole should it be in? Top, middle or bottom? Mine is in the top which looks to be correct but I could be wrong

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

There are 3 holes on the LR birdcage for the lower link. Which hole should it be in? Top, middle or bottom? Mine is in the top which looks to be correct but I could be wrong

4.5" from axle center is standard

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Thats what I did to get where Im at. Thats why it doesnt make any sense. Im adjusted to the max. Right now if I took about 10 turns out of the LR, All of the ride heights would be right on the money, i might have to put a few turns in LF.. but then i would have negative bite. You can see my dilema... have never had this happen before

What happens if you start there, put 3 turns back in lr, 3 out of rr and 2 in rf and 1 out of lf?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The car I am working on now had 350# of LR the first time I checked weights with the ride heights correct.

[DEKconsulting]

Same here with my car with ride heights just right im at 325lr

[cjsracing]

mod88s please clean out your inbox so I can reply to the last PM you sent me

[a25rjr]

Get your ride heights correct, ignoring wheel weights. Then start with the 2 turns on the rear 1 on each front technique in the direction you need to go.

This is the method I use also. Years ago, a modified I crewed for, had to have a new rear clip. When we got it back and set the ride heights it had over 300lbs of bite. I called our builder and he said to do it this way. After a few mins...wala....ride heights and %'s were dead on!

[mod88s]

Thats what im saying im confused about,, this is exactly how I went about it. Started out, set ride heights. I was about negative 200lbs bite. so after using that method (same one ive used for 30 years), i ended up with about 60lbs of bite which i thought was a good starting point... Now, I want to add bite, but the LR is already a bit too high so i cant raise that corner any more,, and the LF is all the way backed off so i cant take anymore out of that corner to add bite.. Thats my conundrum... never had this happen before, thats why im stumped.. only thing i can think of is take out the take-up spring in the left front and back it off to gain more bite

[racing_kid]

Have you checked to make sure your scales are all in the correct corner?

[rick james]

Use a shorter spring on left front so you will have more adjustment

[RacerX10]

Then start with the 2 turns on the rear 1 on each front technique in the direction you need to go.

Explain that in more detail please ?

[a25rjr]

1 In rf, 1 out lf
2 in lr, 2 out rr usually adds 50 lbs of bite and keeps ride heights the same

[mod88s]

Scales are good, scaled it 3 seperate times. I have a 10" spring in LF now. Only thing i can do is take out the take up spring on LF then i can back it off about 5 more turns.... The thing I find really strange is that even if I take a bunch of turns out of the RR, it doesnt lower the RF and it really doesnt lower the bite as much as it should. I took 7 turns out of the RR and it didnt change the RF at all.... another weird thing is if i take turns out of the LR,, it really doesnt drop ride height much or bite numbers..because even though im taking turns out of LR, this causes the frame side jbar point to come down, which in turn moves the rearend to the right, which in turn actually moves the bottom of the LR spring point over to the right as well, which just keeps the height and keeps the weight on it,, kind of cancels each other out... this car is rigid, which i like because you can really feel any changes... just doesnt work the same way on the scales like any of the other cars ive ever had

[MBR Performance]

Have you checked to make sure your birdcage isn't binding at that point near ride height. I would take the rods off and spin the cage the whole way around. Also make sure you don't have a problem with your shock like cavitation or a bowed shaft.

[mod88s]

I will check both of those.. Almost brand new cages.. when you push down on rear everything moves nice and smooth but at this point im open to all ideas. thanks

[m_stagev]

[QUOTE=mod88s;2004815]I will check both of those.. Almost brand new cages.. when you push down on rear everything moves nice and smooth but at this point im open to all ideas. t ever try replacing the rf spring.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Excessive preload on 5th coil?

[mod88s]

I will check that too.. i put 1/4" preload in it but will double check. thanks

[llm]

Seen this many times, put one round in the right front, take two rounds out of right rear and put two rounds in left rear. your left front ride height will move so keep that tuned in. this will also add 50lbs of bite if you want 100lbs then repeat the above but do it in increments add 50lbs at a time do not try to add 100lbs at once do 50 at a time. your very welcome

[mod88s]

The RF is already at the top end of spectrum, dont want it any higher. Same thing with RR, already almost too low, and same thing with LR, already too high.. so each of your suggestions will only make each of these worse. Thats my problem. On most cars Ive owned, you would be correct, by adjusting the RF up, it should bring the RR up as well and then you just take a turn or 2 out of RR to get it back to correct height. This car doesnt work that way at all which is why it doesnt make much sense.

[RCJ]

Remove an axle, see if that makes much difference.Then drop 2lbs of air from the l/f ,add to 2lbs to the l/r.

[matt8]

If you have changed spindles recently make sure you have correct ones. I fought similar problem only my car had 100 right rear bite when rides heights were right. Turns out my new left front spindle the snout was down 1 inch lower on spindle so making your ride height standard actually would be like making it one inch taller with correct spindle

[damon02]

im sure your right...but make sure scale leads are correct ,,ive see it many times and just check stagger again,, also i had a new rf upper arm made with to much angle not letting car move ,,just a possibility

[dirtslinger4]

sounds to me something is in a bind. i would take preload out of fifth coil while scaling, disconnect left front control shock(aka dummy shock), and slide left rear axle out of flange. put car back on scales and shake it down. Like said in above posts make sure scales are plugged in correctly and you are using the right ride heights at each corner. Good luck i know it sucks having scaling issues.

[mod88s]

Have done all of the above, no luck

[rakracing]

do you have all shocks set to neutral

[a25rjr]

You might have a problem with your scales. We fought scaling issues and finally realized it was the scales. Now, one of us weighs himself on each scale before we put the car on them.

[mod88s]

I do that too,, scales are good., i took out the take up spring on LF and now i can back the LF off a little bit and adds bite.. LR isnt going down in ride height which is what i was hoping it would do when i lowered the LF. Shocks all set to neutral. Think about this: how can the ride height go down on LR when you take turns out of it, due to the angle of the spring, when you take turns out of LR, it lowers the Jbar point on the frame which moves the rearend over to the right.. when this happens, it moves the bottom of the LR spring over to the right as well, which just keeps the height where its at. I can take a bunch of turns out of the LR and ride height hardly changes at all..

[a25rjr]

I do that too,, scales are good., i took out the take up spring on LF and now i can back the LF off a little bit and adds bite.. LR isnt going down in ride height which is what i was hoping it would do when i lowered the LF. Shocks all set to neutral. Think about this: how can the ride height go down on LR when you take turns out of it, due to the angle of the spring, when you take turns out of LR, it lowers the Jbar point on the frame which moves the rearend over to the right.. when this happens, it moves the bottom of the LR spring over to the right as well, which just keeps the height where its at. I can take a bunch of turns out of the LR and ride height hardly changes at all..

It definitely takes a lot of turns on the rears to make a big difference. When we had a Smack, we always moved the rr to the inner mount for the feature. To get the ride height back it took 21 turns on an Ohlins. The first time we did at the shop, I didn't believe it but the scales said otherwise.

[CCHIEF]

I do that too,, scales are good., i took out the take up spring on LF and now i can back the LF off a little bit and adds bite.. LR isnt going down in ride height which is what i was hoping it would do when i lowered the LF. Shocks all set to neutral. Think about this: how can the ride height go down on LR when you take turns out of it, due to the angle of the spring, when you take turns out of LR, it lowers the Jbar point on the frame which moves the rearend over to the right.. when this happens, it moves the bottom of the LR spring over to the right as well, which just keeps the height where its at. I can take a bunch of turns out of the LR and ride height hardly changes at all.. Your problem sounds like a bind,very likely in your panhard bar, too much angle likely. Take angle out and see if things work normally. Verify 4 bar lengths are correct and spaced from center of axle correctly. MAke sure you are using the correct ride heights. Make sure rr lower rod is level @ ride height. Set 50 pounds on one corner of the car at a time, the corner you set it on that doesn't get LIGHTER is where a bind problem likely is. rear is hard to verify. LOTSALUCK!