Extremely high rear bite numbers?

[Hodrod7]

My rear bite is 350 lbs with 53%rear 53%left and 59% cross. (Car isn't bad but could be better with drive off, and is a little loose) is my rear bite #s to high that they are taking from the right side?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

My rear bite is 350 lbs with 53%rear 53%left and 59% cross. (Car isn't bad but could be better with drive off, and is a little loose) is my rear bite #s to high that they are taking from the right side?

Very possible

[Hodrod7]

Very possibleI think I somewhat figure why I have so much rear bite. (was searching for things at the track and tried the 16" and forgot about) I went from a lr 250 lbs 13" to a 250 lbs 16". with a 225 lbs 13"on the right side. Am I correct to say the 16" spring compressed to 13' will would be adding that much bite. If I want to run that 16" I am thinking I should go way lighter with the LR? (playing with on the scales tonight to find out)

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I think I somewhat figure why I have so much rear bite. (was searching for things at the track and tried the 16" and forgot about) I went from a lr 250 lbs 13" to a 250 lbs 16". with a 225 lbs 13"on the right side. Am I correct to say the 16" spring compressed to 13' will would be adding that much bite. If I want to run that 16" I am thinking I should go way lighter with the LR? (playing with on the scales tonight to find out)

yes. You got all that bite from loading that 16" spring up enough to return your ride height. A softer spring would allow you to keep bite closer to the old value.

[Fox_hunter42]

drop the cross, way to high

[Hodrod7]

Only way ive been able to get the cross and bite down is to swap the rear springs. I went back to 13" on each side and it done the same thing, so I swapped the left to the right and cross went down to 55% and bite at 200 lbs. (900 lbs spring across the front, 225 LR and 275 rr is what they are now with lower cross) I'm concerned the 275 on the right will make me loose?

[Fox_hunter42]

do you have screw jacks or spring adjusters? Adjust them, check tire sizes, check frame heights. Im personally see no reason to run a 16 inch spring, but don't know your setup, track or drive style. you don't say what type of car. way to many variables to give you an answer

[Hodrod7]

do you have screw jacks or spring adjusters? Adjust them, check tire sizes, check frame heights. Im personally see no reason to run a 16 inch spring, but don't know your setup, track or drive style. you don't say what type of car. way to many variables to give you an answerIt's a Metric car. Left 900 6/4. Right 900 3/8, this is what was on it 250 16" 8/3 left 225 13" 225 4/4, 60% cross with 350lbs of bite!! I have no problem going to a 13" across the back. But with this shock package should I have a heavier spring on the LR? Ride height is about 2" of rack with RF 3/8 higher. And I can adjust with screw jacks. Thanks for your help.

[JustAddDirt]

Put a 16" 175 rate spring in the left rear. Will lighten cross numbers. Car will want to climb up on the cars per say with the longer preloaded lr spring. Leave everything the same as it is with the 13" spring, and just change spring only, should be pretty close to what you had with the shorter spring. see how you like the feel of it.

I talked a friend into letting me set up car with light spring and a bunch of preload , and he loves it. Won his first race shortly after we done it.

[Hodrod7]

Put a 16" 175 rate spring in the left rear. Will lighten cross numbers. Car will want to climb up on the cars per say with the longer preloaded lr spring. Leave everything the same as it is with the 13" spring, and just change spring only, should be pretty close to what you had with the shorter spring. see how you like the feel of it. I talked a friend into letting me set up car with light spring and a bunch of preload , and he loves it. Won his first race shortly after we done it.Well, I left it alone last night, except I I tried a 10" spring with spacers on the rr (yes I can't leave stuff alone) Car wasn't bad but had a bad push when off then on the throttle (after I lifted going in and got back on it) But was loose if I drove it in and stayed on the throttle! I know a lot of this is the driver but I need to get it to a neutral spot!

[WOT114]

Alot of what you are feeling in that last post is setup/driver. I don't believe that shock combo would be forgiving

[a1driver]

the long preload lr spring is inherently pushy when getting on the gas. make sure you get the car rotated before getting back on the gas

[JustAddDirt]

the long preload lr spring is inherently pushy when getting on the gas. make sure you get the car rotated before getting back on the gas


yes nose must be pointed where you want it, before throttle applied

[Hodrod7]

Can someone explain a Rule of thumb with front springs? Say I had 1000 lf 900 RF and switched them what would that do with the car? Or even went to a 800 lf 900 RF? What I am asking is what will it do when going heavier/weaker on each front.

[Fox_hunter42]

cant answer your question, but if your lf is stiffer than rf its backwards. 1000 on rf may not be stiff enough, depending on track

[Bdcase19]

Some people run front springs both ways. Typically people will run the lf heavy since they don't know how to flip wheel weights when on scales. The heavier the rf spring the more drive the car will have off the corner. But in the same sense when done on scales you want lf wheel weights to be heavier then rf. That allows you to run less bite with more cross which will allow you to get back to the gas sooner into the corner.

[Dirt_Buster]

Tie the rr down a little with 3/5 and bring In rr. You'll bring a win home or be up front next race.

[stock car driver]

Some people run front springs both ways. Typically people will run the lf heavy since they don't know how to flip wheel weights when on scales. The heavier the rf spring the more drive the car will have off the corner. But in the same sense when done on scales you want lf wheel weights to be heavier then rf. That allows you to run less bite with more cross which will allow you to get back to the gas sooner into the corner.

Oem suspension cars don't gain drive from stiffer rf.
Less bite with more cross? Less bite is less cross. When setting up dirt cars cross is not used just bite
Lf spring heavier tightens entry off gas.

[Bdcase19]

I hate to break it to ya "stock car driver" but yes, yes they do gain drive with stiffer rf but also like stiffening the lr tightens car on entry. We have ran our car both ways lf heavy and rf heavy car is a lot more driveable but like I said you have to know how to scale the car and keep bite down while scaled lf heavy. And no you can keep cross in the car and take bite out. But there is no sense in argueing with you because you seem like someone who knows it all.

[Dirt_Buster]

Hate to break it to you CASE but stock car driver has won a lot of races in our area. He did pretty (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) well. These street stocks have some crazy set ups in them though.

[7uptruckracer]

LR Bite is Cross they are the same thing. Period. Adding more cross is more RF and and it decreases LF and RR and bite is LR over RR same exact thing different term one is used on asphalt one is used on dirt. I have a car with 390 bite, a soft LR soft fronts. medium rear and higher left and its cleaning house. Stock rear trailing arm locations and parts, good shocks are key and I'm not running traditional Super Street numbers more something you would see on a late model valving wise. I went with a new approach. the metric has bad geometry camber gain issues. So I went to valving that pins the car, and use my bite to get what i want off the corners and not "transfer" its working for me but it takes a whole package, its far from a turn and stomp car like most high bite setups. You need to decide to i want to be conventional or do i want to be new school both can win races and honestly depends on your rules. When you decide find someone who does it well get advice and commit to the setup and see why it works. The lower bite setups need front to rear transfer so you need to shock accordingly.

[7uptruckracer]

Stock Car Driver basically through the different threads on this forum has laid out a baseline you can almost plug and play and get pretty dang close anywhere you go. You might want to start there and see what works and why it works most of the posts on here people don't understand how the springs are working on accel and deccel as far as dynamic weight transfer goes and what its doing to wheel load once you understand that these cars are easy, most are stock configurations so it keeps you in an adjustment box

[Bdcase19]

Well races won or not me and my driver have won a lot of races in our area. Multiple track championships, multiple super national qualifiers, multiple big money shows. The compition don't get much tougher then in Iowa.Cross is a percentage just like left side and rear. Which yes you can change cross with the change of springs. But also just like left and rear is a dynamic weight and really only changes dramatically with the movement of lead. Like I've said knowing how to scale the car for what you want it to do is key.Do you really want to use a set-up that is just as fast as everyone else, or do you want to be faster?

[7uptruckracer]

If you think bite and cross are different then you need to do some research. You cannot change scale numbers with springs. Ride heights are what changes bite aka cross. you can have a 100 to a 1000# spring and if you set the car back to the exact ride heights you had you bite aka cross will be exactly the same.

[Bdcase19]

Lmao. So you mean to tell me if I set my ride height on my rr and take my 225 out and put my 250 in and take turns out to get my ride height back the numbers won't change a bit? Lol they will be completely different!! If you change one spring and the other three don't move I would look into getting a new car. Usually as you up or lower bite cross will go up and down with it but you can change it more with lead placement. How can you tell me bite and cross are the same when they have to do with different wheel weights.

[Dirt_Buster]

Case, you're a young kid. Keep studying and learning.

[7uptruckracer]

I'm telling you this because it's true. Post this theory in the LM section we enjoy good laughs. Cross is LR and RF added together and a percentage of the whole LR bite it your RR from your LR well when you raise cross you raise your LR weight and ALSO YOUR RF and it takes away from your LF and RR that's why your BITE goes up. It's the same thing Asphalt Racers use cross and not LR bite as a term because an asphalt car traditionally is a lot more front end dominant and we care more about what the RF is doing. That's the only reason we don't use the term LR bite. I setup asphalt dirt late models asphalt all the way from street stock to touring cars for a living get the scales out and do some work you will see one turn in a single spring changes all the other corners which should show you which diagonals lose and which gain and you'll see cross and bite are the same. Raising LF lowers cross and lowers bite. Dropping LF raises bite and cross raise LR ride height raises bite and raises cross. Putting turns in the RR raising its height lowers cross and lowers bite, taking turns out of the RR and lowering RR raises cross and raises bite it's all the same thing you tell me how you adjust them in opposite directions independently of each other....you can't lol


Lmao. So you mean to tell me if I set my ride height on my rr and take my 225 out and put my 250 in and take turns out to get my ride height back the numbers won't change a bit? Lol they will be completely different!! If you change one spring and the other three don't move I would look into getting a new car. Usually as you up or lower bite cross will go up and down with it but you can change it more with lead placement. How can you tell me bite and cross are the same when they have to do with different wheel weights.

[7uptruckracer]

Remember this a spring is a weight ABSORBER. You do not "plant" a tire more by going softer you take more wheel load off once you realize that things will click. Go get an egg and step on it I bet it crushes. Go get another egg and a story tall of foam and step on it "exaggerated) and bet it won't crush the foam is your spring and you didn't crush the egg because the softer spring absorbed the weight. Learn wheel loading after you learn how to scale

[drivingexcitement]

You can run more cross and less bite by adjusting left side percentage.

[Bdcase19]

Someone who understands. AndMe being young has nothing to do with it. I've been around it since I was real young and I know what IKnow from experience, from countless hours on the scales. Most people stick with what hasWorked for them, which is alright but yourNot gonna get faster if your setup is always the same.You can adjust all four corners and leave the rifled height the same while raising or lowering bite and front split. You can also raise the rear (both sides) not equally a take split out or put split in without moving bite. Same goes for the front or for the left side or for the right side. Remember NUMBERS don't lie. And like I said with the exception on cross the percentages are static weight numbers. They do not change unless you move or add/ subtract weight.

[Dirt_Buster]

Statically we get basics of a set up but we set the cars up dynamically bud. You're stuck in the asphalt days. Like I said you're young and still have A LOT to learn. Sit back and watch and learn. Trust me

[7uptruckracer]

Someone who understands. AndMe being young has nothing to do with it. I've been around it since I was real young and I know what IKnow from experience, from countless hours on the scales. Most people stick with what hasWorked for them, which is alright but yourNot gonna get faster if your setup is always the same.You can adjust all four corners and leave the rifled height the same while raising or lowering bite and front split. You can also raise the rear (both sides) not equally a take split out or put split in without moving bite. Same goes for the front or for the left side or for the right side. Remember NUMBERS don't lie. And like I said with the exception on cross the percentages are static weight numbers. They do not change unless you move or add/ subtract weight.. http://www.auto-ware.com/setup/wtdstxwt.htm Please educate yourselves lol geezus christ you can also call intercomp longacre etc and get told the same.

[Bdcase19]

I'm curious if you know the difference in meaning between static and dynamic? Yes you can move wheel weights with jack bolts, but when setting up the car unless you have a chassis dyno it is always static. Seems to me that you need to watch and learn. There is no sense in argueing with someone that knows it all. I have done it tried it on the race track seen it work. I don't know what is so hard to understand about that. I also know of someone that is doing it now and kicking ass. Has over 200 wins and still winning.

[stock car driver]

I hate to break it to ya "stock car driver" but yes, yes they do gain drive with stiffer rf but also like stiffening the lr tightens car on entry. We have ran our car both ways lf heavy and rf heavy car is a lot more driveable but like I said you have to know how to scale the car and keep bite down while scaled lf heavy. And no you can keep cross in the car and take bite out. But there is no sense in argueing with you because you seem like someone who knows it all.

Welcome to the forum new guy. Congrats you ran your car both ways! That's awesome. Ive ran cars at 90 different tracks in 8 different classes in my 22 years or racing. I think Ive had 15 different cars appox.


What are you talking about you have to know how to keep bite down while wanting lf heavy? the more lf weight you crank into your car the less bite you have, lol. and less cross also if you want to talk about cross also even though in dirt track racing we reference BITE not cross.

You need to read my post much more slowly apparently

[stock car driver]

Lmao. So you mean to tell me if I set my ride height on my rr and take my 225 out and put my 250 in and take turns out to get my ride height back the numbers won't change a bit? Lol they will be completely different!! If you change one spring and the other three don't move I would look into getting a new car. Usually as you up or lower bite cross will go up and down with it but you can change it more with lead placement. How can you tell me bite and cross are the same when they have to do with different wheel weights.

your wrong again, wow, we love it when new guys come here and know it all cus they stand around some guys pits.

Who are you annoying by standing around in Iowa? I know a few people in Iowa.... And have a few wins and stock car shootout championship in Iowa.

you can put any spring in any corner of your car and re adjust and get all 4 number back to the exact same that's the point of having weight jacks.

[Bdcase19]

Oh Jeff just because you won a few races at osky against some good competition and some races other places against a bunch of nobodies does not mean your fast. It's obvious now why your stock car always had the lf in the air because you don't know how to keep bite down and keep weight on the lf. (While having a heavier rf Spring.)

[Bdcase19]

Please explain to me how you can set a ride height and then change springs and set the ride height back and have the same wheel weight. Lmao it don't work like that. The weight will be different at the same height because the rate of the spring is either lower or higher.

[stock car driver]

Oh Jeff just because you won a few races at osky against some good competition and some races other places against a bunch of nobodies does not mean your fast. It's obvious now why your stock car always had the lf in the air because you don't know how to keep bite down and keep weight on the lf. (While having a heavier rf Spring.)

why would I need the bite down I was a top 4 car any where I went for 8 years in home made junk 34 wins is pretty decent racing against the best of the best at special events mostly.

[Bdcase19]

Just because it was home made don't mean it was junk. It was still made on a jig. As long as everything is straight and the car flexes like it's supposed to bar location means nothing with the exception on rear spring bar. My point I'm trying to get across is that what I'm saying CAN be done. No I don't race a car nor am I commenting on how to. I am simply stating that these things can be done. I do help and scale cars of what I believe are some of the fastest guys in Iowa. (I may be biased but still) Obviously there is a lot of fast people in Iowa but these two or three could go to any one race track in the county and win. I can only recall twice when you and I as well as one of my drivers was at a track and you finished top 4. And once you won and once you got third. 34 wins in 8 years that's good yeah lol. When we used to race 3-4 nights a week we had almost that many wins in one season.

[7uptruckracer]

Please explain to me how you can set a ride height and then change springs and set the ride height back and have the same wheel weight. Lmao it don't work like that. The weight will be different at the same height because the rate of the spring is either lower or higher. this is literally the dumbest thing I've seen posted here ever. Please please post this on the LM forum so more people can see it we enjoy a laugh

[7uptruckracer]

Please explain to me how you can set a ride height and then change springs and set the ride height back and have the same wheel weight. Lmao it don't work like that. The weight will be different at the same height because the rate of the spring is either lower or higher.
15,000 pound spring (yes you read it correctly) out of the RR of a cup car at Martinsville. By your theory I would have a hellacious wheel weight there because somehow it's created weight just sitting on the scales actually click on the links that were listed and get an education before you embarrass yourself anymore bite and cross are the same you've just pressed a different button on the scale so it reads in a format the user wants. That's why the ride height adjustments are the same for both......if I have 500 RR weight and 4" ride height I can put any spring I want as long as it's at a 4" ride height the wheel weight is the same how in the hell do you think a spring smasher works you take your center to center measurement on your coil over while its at ride height load it into the machine crank it to that center to center and read your load number. You change your spring or bump package and crank it back to that center to center. If your load number is different you know you need to adjust your collar until your load number is the same so when you put it back in the car your ride height and bite are the same THATS WHY YOU BUY THEM. That's the only thing you need to disprove your magic carpet theory

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

this is literally the dumbest thing I've seen posted here ever. Please please post this on the LM forum so more people can see it we enjoy a laugh

Maybe he is confusing ride height with adjuster height? Maybe...

[7uptruckracer]

Still doesn't justify how he thinks a spring change will change weight, for the same ride height because he is saying hes resetting ride height and still doesn't justify how he thinks Bite and Cross are different lol what can you do except hope he never gets a late model and stays in Super Streets.

[Bdcase19]

If you put a 200 lb spring and a 225lb spring in a spring dyno and compress them both to 1 inch the numbers are going to be the same? I think not! Even 2 inches one will be 400lbs and one will be 450lbs. Just like if I was to replace my rf 1100lb spring to 1200lb spring and set the ride height back to 7 1/2 inches the wheel weight will not be the same and neither will any other numbers. If that was the case why would people need to scale their cars they could just set ride heights and every number would be the exact same. As far as cross and bite they are not the same there is only one wheel weight that has anything to do with both. Cross will help turn the car. Bite tightens the car up. It's obvious.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If you put a 200 lb spring and a 225lb spring in a spring dyno and compress them both to 1 inch the numbers are going to be the same? I think not! Even 2 inches one will be 400lbs and one will be 450lbs. Just like if I was to replace my rf 1100lb spring to 1200lb spring and set the ride height back to 7 1/2 inches the wheel weight will not be the same and neither will any other numbers. If that was the case why would people need to scale their cars they could just set ride heights and every number would be the exact same. As far as cross and bite they are not the same there is only one wheel weight that has anything to do with both. Cross will help turn the car. Bite tightens the car up. It's obvious.

*facepalm*

[7uptruckracer]

Bahahaha geezus you don't even know what equipment we are talking about. A spring rater and a spring smasher are two different things please do yourself a favor and click on the link. I can put a solid Rod in place of the spring at the same ride height and the scale number won't change lol MB don't facepalm too hard this one takes the cake
If you put a 200 lb spring and a 225lb spring in a spring dyno and compress them both to 1 inch the numbers are going to be the same? I think not! Even 2 inches one will be 400lbs and one will be 450lbs. Just like if I was to replace my rf 1100lb spring to 1200lb spring and set the ride height back to 7 1/2 inches the wheel weight will not be the same and neither will any other numbers. If that was the case why would people need to scale their cars they could just set ride heights and every number would be the exact same. As far as cross and bite they are not the same there is only one wheel weight that has anything to do with both. Cross will help turn the car. Bite tightens the car up. It's obvious.

[Bdcase19]

I know the difference. If you wasn't so caught up in your own arrogance you'd realize that I did not reference your spring smasher. That is why I said spring tester. You could take two of the exact same springs and they won't always be exactly the same, they'll be close. If two different rates of springs are preloaded and the same height the rate won't be the same. I don't understand how you could not realize this.

[Bdcase19]

If all four springs were exactly identical and the threaded collars were adjusted to be the same height, and you stand in the middle of the table, then the scales would read no differently than prior to adding the springs (except for the additional weight of the springs and collars).However, if you were to adjust the right front spring collar to slightly compress (preload) this spring, then the right front scale will register more weight. At the same time, the left rear scale will register slightly more weight. In this condition, the right rear and left front scales will register less weight, too.This is from your stupid link. Like I've been saying if you change springs it's not compressed as much or is compressed more at the same height so the wheel weight will be different. READ IT UNDERSTAND IT!

[Bdcase19]

Your talking something completely different, after looking up what a spring smasher is and does I understand what your talking about. But there is a difference in using a conventional spring a shock setup (which is what we are using here and what I've been talking about) compared to a coil over set up. Yeah sure you can get the same load at the same coil over center to center only because you can preload the spring differently on the shock body. But that does not work on a stock suspension car.

[HRE]

lets try this. if you have weight jacks, and you measure the stick out of the jack bolt say 3 inches and have a set ride height then you change springs from a 225 to a 200. then you reset your ride heights, your stick out on the jack bolts will be different, but you will have the same wheel weight. am i correct? it is on my stuff

[Bdcase19]

I understand what your saying, but how could it possibly be the same when the springs have two different rates and are supposedly compressed to the same height.

[HRE]

When you are resetting your ride heights you're not setting the spring to the same length as it was before, you're resetting your chassis ride height.

[stock car driver]

I understand what your saying, but how could it possibly be the same when the springs have two different rates and are supposedly compressed to the same height.

I d I o t

why would they be compressed to the same height ? they would not be if you were correcting your ride height back to where you had it, lol.. that is the point of "correcting the ride height or re setting it".

your the one here trying to tell everyone you know what your talking about and we all don't...

weve all been changing springs and re setting our bar, trailing arm or ride heights and ALL have the exact same corner weights you could put a board in there and still have the same corner weights on the scales if you keep the ride height the same... none of us can understand how you cant get this thru your head.

so back to one of the original questions I posed for you, whose pit do you stand around in the way in Iowa?? you clearly don't add much to the program but maybe a mud scraper!

[Dirt_Buster]

I told you to sit back and learn. Just shut up for a few years and ask questions. Seriously kid. How old are you? Guessing early 20s?

[stock car driver]

Gotta be teens to be this far off.

[Dirt_Buster]

Gotta be teens to be this far off.I don't know SCD the ones these days been on mamas tit a little to long

[let-r-eat]

Case,

Listen to what these guys are saying. They are correct.


Put your little red wagon on the scales and look at the corner weights. The only way you can change those corner weights is by moving weight around in the wagon or by letting air out or putting air in a tire which changes the ride height of the wagon.

Letting air out or in is the same thing as changing springs.

What happens when you have 2 tires with different air pressures that keeps the wagon at the same height? Will the tire with the lower tire pressure have less weight on it than the tire with more air pressure?

The ride height is what matters to corner weights.