Are race fans in the south getting shafted??

[Doc88D]

A recent discussion on a racetrack's facebook page got me wondering the question that is my title. Late Model teams in the south have successfully convinced the promoters/track owners that they are too special to run heat races. Many local shows just qualify, then have a 2nd hot lap session and run a feature. If the fan is lucky they only lock in 10 cars or so and then run a b feature to set the rest of the field. The argument by so many car owners is that they get tore up in heats.

I find it funny that all over the Midwest, heat races are the norm. Many times they are the best races of the night. Many tracks in Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky & Michigan draw for heat starts. Then the top 4 transfer to the feature, with the top 2 redrawing for a top 8 starting spot. What that gets you many times is a feature winner coming from the 4th row to win!. And you don't ruin the track with 40 laps of 1 lane qualifying.

This is something you very rarely see in the south. Once you get south of the TN state line the drivers feel they should only qualify then start straight up with the fastest man on the pole. YAWN!

My question is WHY? If you cant get through a heat race, then I guess a 1 lane no passing feature is good for you. We are all in this sport because we like watching cars RACE other cars. The only time qualifying should be used is in a show of $5000 to win or more. Then it should just set the heats. Just like the Lucas & WoO series do.

And don't get me started on provisionals... Hell even in the NHRA, (which is the only series that can justify qualifying), If John Force don't make the field, he loads up and goes home.

Am I the only one that feels this way? I am a team owner, and I feel all the qualifying is ruining our sport. When I convince newcomers to come check out a dirt race, they all ask me why all the time is wasted with one car on the track. This has to be an issue with getting new fans in our grandstands. These people come to the races to see RACING. So come on Late Model team owners, drivers, promoters, and track owners. Grow a pair and put RACING back into dirt track racing. The gate prices are going up. The RACING action is declining. Bring back the pill draw and make the drivers turn back into RACERS. Maybe the headlines could then read that driver "X" started 10th and pulled off an amazing win on the final lap. Not driver "X" starts on the pole and leads every lap... This could be why the southern teams don't venture up to Eldora or any of the Midwest tracks for the big shows. You have to pass other cars up there...

[jog49]

Perhaps southern drivers are smarter than Midwestern drivers!

[Doc88D]

The grandstands in the south seam to be emptier than those in the Midwest...

[huskerdirt]

A recent discussion on a racetrack's facebook page got me wondering the question that is my title. Late Model teams in the south have successfully convinced the promoters/track owners that they are too special to run heat races. Many local shows just qualify, then have a 2nd hot lap session and run a feature. If the fan is lucky they only lock in 10 cars or so and then run a b feature to set the rest of the field. The argument by so many car owners is that they get tore up in heats.

I find it funny that all over the Midwest, heat races are the norm. Many times they are the best races of the night. Many tracks in Ohio, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky & Michigan draw for heat starts. Then the top 4 transfer to the feature, with the top 2 redrawing for a top 8 starting spot. What that gets you many times is a feature winner coming from the 4th row to win!. And you don't ruin the track with 40 laps of 1 lane qualifying.

This is something you very rarely see in the south. Once you get south of the TN state line the drivers feel they should only qualify then start straight up with the fastest man on the pole. YAWN!

My question is WHY? If you cant get through a heat race, then I guess a 1 lane no passing feature is good for you. We are all in this sport because we like watching cars RACE other cars. The only time qualifying should be used is in a show of $5000 to win or more. Then it should just set the heats. Just like the Lucas & WoO series do.

And don't get me started on provisionals... Hell even in the NHRA, (which is the only series that can justify qualifying), If John Force don't make the field, he loads up and goes home.

Am I the only one that feels this way? I am a team owner, and I feel all the qualifying is ruining our sport. When I convince newcomers to come check out a dirt race, they all ask me why all the time is wasted with one car on the track. This has to be an issue with getting new fans in our grandstands. These people come to the races to see RACING. So come on Late Model team owners, drivers, promoters, and track owners. Grow a pair and put RACING back into dirt track racing. The gate prices are going up. The RACING action is declining. Bring back the pill draw and make the drivers turn back into RACERS. Maybe the headlines could then read that driver "X" started 10th and pulled off an amazing win on the final lap. Not driver "X" starts on the pole and leads every lap... This could be why the southern teams don't venture up to Eldora or any of the Midwest tracks for the big shows. You have to pass other cars up there...

Completely agree. It's one of those things that I could never understand. I've long been an advocate of the passing points system. A lot of guys don't seem to understand from that part of the country. Clanton made a comment about he shouldn't have to pass cars to qualify for a race on late model live a few weeks ago. He dropped a few pegs in my book because it sounded so ignorant.

A lot of times these passing point heat races are the best races of the night. Nothing like seeing Stovall come out for a heat race in the last row, knowing he's gotta get up on it to have a shot at the pole.

[Just The Tip]

I can't speak for racing in the south, I live and watch most of my races in Indiana. However, I personally hate qualifying. Draw a pill for your spot in the heat race and finish in the top 3 or 4 to transfer to the feature. If not, run good in your last chance race. The track i go to normally to watch races just started group qualifying where the will take your fastest lap time from your hot lap session. I can live with that. If most places don't run heats in the south, I feel like that is not a good value for your money, personally. I don't want to watch a feature where all spots are determined by one qualifying lap. Sounds boring to me.

[GEAR_HEAD]

I've been saying this for years! The race formats in the south are terrible and there is no reason to travel down there to see freight trains. The Ray Cook races are always terrible because of the crappy format. I feel fortunate to have grown up where pill draw shows and passing are plentiful. Qualifying proves nothing and running a fast time all by yourself should not earn you the pole. The sport is called racing, not qualifying.

[a25rjr]

I'm not sure where the orig poster is referring to, but every track here in south Ga and all of Fl run heat races. They only qualify for series or bigger paying races. No we don't have supers but we got what we got!

[Kwd1253]

Well I'm from South Louisiana. They do qualify, heat, last chance, main. Don't no what part of South they just do qualify, hot lap, then race. Sorry for them folks

[STRONGERTHANDIRT]

I can hear Dixie from my house and I quit going a couple of years ago. Late models hot lap, qualify, and run a feature. Could be one reason Dixie seems to struggling right now for cars and fans.

[TerryM]

I'm from Lexington, KY, which is an easy drive to numerous awesome dirt tracks in several states -- KY, OH, TN, IN, etc. It's my idea of dirt late model heaven. But three years ago I met and wound up marrying a Georgia girl, and moved down here last year. We're about 30 minutes from Savannah. Compared to where I'm from, the racing scene in southeast GA is terrible. And no, they don't run heat races. The top 10-12 feature cars are set through qualifying, and then there's a B Main to set the rest of the field. For someone like me, who grew up watching a full race card, these formats down here are pathetic.

The first time I saw this format was at a SAS show at Tazewell many years ago. I swore I'd never go to another one and I never did. But now I'm living in the land of no heat races and have no choice. Well actually we do have a choice. We can stay home or find something else to do. And often times now that's what we do. If the track doesn't want to put on a full late model show, we'll spend our money elsewhere.

[matdaddy]

well just keep your yankee asses up north, sit down, shut up and quit ruining our lives, clinton commy's

[Bud99]

I'm from north central ILL. And I love the south. I wish I lived in the south. I love the way the southern people live. So please don't tell all us Yankee's to stay up north. Really I love my country, and I'm sure as hell not voting for Old lady Clinton. TRUMP ALL THE WAY.

[vadirtfan]

As a fan, I would rather watch heat races determined by a pill draw. As a crew member, I would rather qualify and either start straight up or invert the top 4 or top 6 qualifiers. It's more entertaining to watch fast cars come from the back to the front but when a fast car gets taken out by a slow car that has no business starting up front, it ruins a fast cars night and a chance at a win.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I'm from north central ILL. And I love the south. I wish I lived in the south. I love the way the southern people live. So please don't tell all us Yankee's to stay up north. Really I love my country, and I'm sure as hell not voting for Old lady Clinton. TRUMP ALL THE WAY.

I love almost everything about the South. The exception is the race formats.

[zach51]

Twin heat races with the second round inverted on passing points is the ultimate for a big show. (I can't remember which race did that last year but it was the one where Jason Jameson ran so good).

[dirtnut]

Iwould like the pill draw and heat races.

[Bubstr]

Are race fans in the south getting shafted??

Not only the fans, but the racers that think they want no heat race format and the track operators also. When the front gate drops, either or all of three things happen. One the pit gate price goes up. Two the front gate price goes up. Three, the purse drops from no attendance. All of this hurts the car counts, which hurts the attendance. It becomes a vicious circle that is happening all over the country, to some extent and just blamed on rising costs. The cost of everything has been rising. That makes it more important to get more fans in the stands so the purses rise with the cost or just close shop. You get that fan, by having a show worth seeing. One lane Choo Choo's aren't the answer.

[WisWildManFan]

Just makes up for the cold winters you guys avoid :)

[formercrewguy]

Well you guys would have hated the way we did it out West back in the day,then. We ran qualifying, trophy dashes for the 6 fastest. Heat races, Bmains, then the A main. You lined up for the feature based on points. In otherwords, fast cars started in the back. Always. Total inversion. The fans loved it, and we didn't tear up cars like you might think. Cream always rises to the top!

[huskerdirt]

Twin heat races with the second round inverted on passing points is the ultimate for a big show. (I can't remember which race did that last year but it was the one where Jason Jameson ran so good).

North/South

I-80 started doing that format for the Silver Dollar Nationals back in 2011. Since then it has spread like a California wild fire, especially in the mods.

[DoubleZero]

Y'all gonna give the DNC a whole new platform, right alongside global warming, undocumented visitors, and bathrooms.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Twin heat races with the second round inverted on passing points is the ultimate for a big show. (I can't remember which race did that last year but it was the one where Jason Jameson ran so good).


Sounds like it was the North/South 100 at Florence, Ky.

[LMPunk]

The formats are what they are and probably won't change, but the bigger problem down here is that, except for a select few, the tracks suck. Whether it's the prep, track configurations/size or the dirt itself, you seem to see a lot more highlights of train races on DoD down South than you do up North. So it wouldn't much matter if they did run heats everywhere.

[Doc88D]

Great point LMpunk

[jr29]

I just don't go to races in the south anymore. All of the late model racing I watch in person is from Paducah northward.
Pevely qualifies late models but they group qualify during hot laps then run heat races. That system is fine and doesn't bother me.

[fastford]

Are race fans in the south getting shafted??

Not only the fans, but the racers that think they want no heat race format and the track operators also. When the front gate drops, either or all of three things happen. One the pit gate price goes up. Two the front gate price goes up. Three, the purse drops from no attendance. All of this hurts the car counts, which hurts the attendance. It becomes a vicious circle that is happening all over the country, to some extent and just blamed on rising costs. The cost of everything has been rising. That makes it more important to get more fans in the stands so the purses rise with the cost or just close shop. You get that fan, by having a show worth seeing. One lane Choo Choo's aren't the answer.

very well put, the absence of heat races does save some one like me a few bucks, but from a fan in the stands perspective, I would like to see heats. but till there's more money all the way around , I doubt things are going to change much down here......

[ptown]

A recent discussion on a racetrack's facebook page got me wondering the question that is my title. Late Model teams in the south have successfully convinced the promoters/track owners that they are too special to run heat races. Many local shows just qualify, then have a 2nd hot lap session and run a feature. If the fan is lucky they only lock in 10 cars or so and then run a b feature to set the rest of the field. The argument by so many car owners is that they get tore up in heats.

What a joke, I wouldn't pay 10 cents to see that garbage.

[dirtdobber45]

Voluteer Speedway(back in the good ol days) had it set up on the 'big races' that only the fastest and 2nd fastest were locked in everybody else had to race their way in to the feature

[old fan]

I just don't go to races in the south anymore. All of the late model racing I watch in person is from Paducah northward. Pevely qualifies late models but they group qualify during hot laps then run heat races. That system is fine and doesn't bother me. Tri city also

[toyracer]

HLQ & running heats still stinks imo. Fast guys still qualify up front & you get no passing in the heats or mains.

I understand qualifying from time to time but on weekly shows shouldn't happen.

[fastford]

What a joke, I wouldn't pay 10 cents to see that garbage.

that's great ptown, you save that money, you may need it...

[jr29]

HLQ & running heats still stinks imo. Fast guys still qualify up front & you get no passing in the heats or mains.

I understand qualifying from time to time but on weekly shows shouldn't happen.

They also use passing points in heats and run a dash.

[bite me too]

I lived in GA for 15 years ('99 - '14) and hated the formats for the shows I went to. And, I went to a ton of them.

I've had "discussions" with the fans of qualify and start heads up many many times. Their argument is the fastest guy has worked hard "all week" to be the fastest car at the track so he shouldn't be "punished" by having to start anywhere than on the pole. When I've told them of how its down in the Northeast (where I know live again) where the top points guy is "handicapped" and usually starts outside the top 10 they tell me "that's stupid". However, the RACERS up here do not think so...30+ Big Block style Modified cars a week for 24 starting spots on a flat 1/4 mile for 25 laps. Last Saturday the top points guy started last and made it to 2nd with one caution on lap 3. The winner started on the pole and has been irrelevant in every other race this year.

Real "race fans" from the deep south qualify start heads up group would sh*t themselves if they ever saw it!!!

[cgrace]

im fine with qualifing n heats what kills me is too many classes in midwest which cause show to go till midnihgt

[fastford]

I lived in GA for 15 years ('99 - '14) and hated the formats for the shows I went to. And, I went to a ton of them.

I've had "discussions" with the fans of qualify and start heads up many many times. Their argument is the fastest guy has worked hard "all week" to be the fastest car at the track so he shouldn't be "punished" by having to start anywhere than on the pole. When I've told them of how its down in the Northeast (where I know live again) where the top points guy is "handicapped" and usually starts outside the top 10 they tell me "that's stupid". However, the RACERS up here do not think so...30+ Big Block style Modified cars a week for 24 starting spots on a flat 1/4 mile for 25 laps. Last Saturday the top points guy started last and made it to 2nd with one caution on lap 3. The winner started on the pole and has been irrelevant in every other race this year.

Real "race fans" from the deep south qualify start heads up group would sh*t themselves if they ever saw it!!!

your entitled to your opinion just like me. My question to you is, while you were down here, why on earth would you keep going a ton of times to anything you " hate so much" for 15 years?

[W2Racing09]

your entitled to your opinion just like me. My question to you is, while you were down here, why on earth would you keep going a ton of times to anything you " hate so much" for 15 years?

Horrible racing is better than no racing in my opinion. I wouldn't be happy to live in the South and see that kind of show every week either, but I would still be going to races once or twice every weekend.

I think something in between is ideal. Like a top 6 redraw before the feature or something like that. Don't guarantee that the fastest car will start on the pole. That is a recipe for bad racing, and racing is a spectator sport and needs fans to survive.

[pig tracker]

I agree and I should know-I'm currently staying in a Holiday Inn Express which makes me really, really smart.

[bite me too]

your entitled to your opinion just like me. My question to you is, while you were down here, why on earth would you keep going a ton of times to anything you " hate so much" for 15 years?

I didn't say I hated racing. just the format. and, it's the only format so I was "stuck" with it.

[dmr37]

If qualifying, with fastest guy starting on the pole, is good enough for Nascar, it's good enough for me!

[B_K]

Troy, Troy,Troy.....

I am a real race fan. I have seen it both ways. I still don't like the idea of making a good car start behind some jack wagon that might turn right or left when he gets to a corner.

[castone]

If that good car starts up front he will probably be lapping that jack wagon, and he still may get you in the turns. If you have a race car, and don't won't to race it, you may need to get another hobby.

[STRONGERTHANDIRT]

If that good car starts up front he will probably be lapping that jack wagon, and he still may get you in the turns. If you have a race car, and don't won't to race it, you may need to get another hobby. Exactly!!!

[Late_Model_Mark]

Living in the South is awesome in my view, our formula at TST works and the fans do not gripe about our weekly format. Our track features 2 and 3-wide racing each and every dang week. You can race at TST and the "freight trains " stay on the rails. As I posted on Midsouth, a post that Doc started there I have stated my views that have evolved over the year, costs, the era that we are in and so forth.


We run the absolute tightest shows in the South and we finish on most nights by 10:45p.m. after hot laps start at 7:15p.m.

If you have 20 cars should you really heat race? Maybe, maybe not. We heat race the other 5 classes.



Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

[old fan]

never been to weekly or for for that matter big race without heat races example this weekend some lil event in Ohio , I 've been to shows had heat dash maybe semis in 5 classes and be done by 10 30 or 11 that's with a 15 minute intermission

[B_K]

And I'd say it's not the lottery where you get to win a pill draw. No need to penalize a guy for being fast.

We're not going to change each other's opinions, so have a good one.

[TerryM]

Passing points are a reward. No one is getting penalized for being fast.

[slmcrewchief99]

Everybody has their own theory on what is best. We run with a couple of different regional series within about 6 hours of home. 3 of those heat race with passing points, 2 of those time in. The 2 that time in lock in the top 8 on time but run a dash for feature starting position. Those that are left run b-mains to finish out the field. We REALLY like that format. The better cars are up front and the winner usually doesn't come from the pole. It still promotes good racing. The fast cars are up front and most of the time its "good" "hard" racing too.

At times we like the pill draw with passing points but some of the dumps we race at, you can't pass. I'm not blaming the system and for that matter, the tracks. But it makes it hard to want to go back to a track because the system won't work there. Most of those we WONT go back to unless they time in. We have replaced more body panels and moving parts at passing point races than you could imagine. But again that is due to 1 and a half lanes of racing. If you start in the back and you have a good car, you will pull out some panels after a heat race. That's just the nature of it. It also makes for hard feelings but hopefully we can all have a beer afterward and laugh about it.

Back a few years ago before we started racing more regional races and was still just going to different tracks, we went to a couple of those tracks that don't heat race. We didn't like it at 1st but it was more because we were just getting started and didn't qualify well. We usually raced good but had to come from the back half of the field. But the 1 thing we did find was we didn't tear up much equipment. The squirrels were still behind us and we didn't get in the wrecks. Plus it really gave us a ton of free time to visit with all the other racers and have a good time. Its less work to do to the car. No tires to buff. No mud to scrape off. Just walk around and talk to your friends. There were 2 tracks that we called our "home tracks" at that time that were close to home. We got to where we quit racing there because it was pill draw and we got tired of buying parts. I can remember back in the day, we got knocked out of 5 weeks in a row on the 1st lap of heat races and couldn't fix it to make the feature. That got old in a hurry.

Like I said, I see both sides because as a fan you want to see as much racing as your money will buy. As for a local race team they have to look at the monetary part of it. If they can save money on fuel and parts to time in and just feature race, then that's better for them. I think it's just a track to track thing that they need to work out themselves. I'm sure if they attempted to do that, I'm sure they could get a solution that everyone could be happy with. We are engine poor right now with 3 of them broke. We will be back in a week or 2 for sure. No matter what the format is when we come back, we will go after it as hard as we can. That's a fact. Maybe we can keep the fenders on it and keep all the engine parts "inside" the block for the rest of the summer.

slmcrewchief99

[bite me too]

Troy, Troy,Troy.....

I am a real race fan. I have seen it both ways. I still don't like the idea of making a good car start behind some jack wagon that might turn right or left when he gets to a corner.

Billy, Billy, Billy....

we've had this discussion a billion times. I know you're a real race fan. jack wagons are part of racing. SLM drivers, "mostly" in the south, have whinned their way to not having to deal with them. thus, the formats.

we had a guy win up here last week from the pole and his crew chief brother came up just short of apologizing for him winning from the pole because he knew the race got "stunk up".

difference of opinions. it's all good. we still get to go see our local favorites race at our local tracks!

[B_K]

Lol, we'll probably have it again at some point. How are things in liberaland?

[bite me too]

If qualifying, with fastest guy starting on the pole, is good enough for Nascar, it's good enough for me!

NA$CAR races are 400 - 500 miles on tracks over a mile and, 400 - 500 laps on tracks under a mile. BIG, HUGE difference than a 30 lap race on a 3/8ths mile!

the fact that NA$CAR is good enough for you....well...good for you!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The problem with the South, why they "have" to run those junk formats, is because they have too many Oglethorpe type joints and not enough Golden Isles type joints.

[bite me too]

Lol, we'll probably have it again at some point. How are things in liberaland?

I hope we do!

lberaland is as expected. although, we live in the nonliberalist part up here. lotsa camo and everyone owns firearms and farms and does all things nonliberal. in fact they booed the local Dem candidate at our local parade last fall. all is not lost. lol

hows you and yours?

[fastford]

I didn't say I hated racing. just the format. and, it's the only format so I was "stuck" with it.

the format is the race , you cant have it both ways, you cant say I " hate" the way they race in the south , yet show up and pay your money for 15 years, sorry but this don't add up for me...JMO..

[fastford]

Living in the South is awesome in my view, our formula at TST works and the fans do not gripe about our weekly format. Our track features 2 and 3-wide racing each and every dang week. You can race at TST and the "freight trains " stay on the rails. As I posted on Midsouth, a post that Doc started there I have stated my views that have evolved over the year, costs, the era that we are in and so forth.


We run the absolute tightest shows in the South and we finish on most nights by 10:45p.m. after hot laps start at 7:15p.m.

If you have 20 cars should you really heat race? Maybe, maybe not. We heat race the other 5 classes.



Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

you are correct mark, you guys are doing a great job. are you going to be in the tower this week end? we will be there for the B. J. Parker memorial this week end.

[Bubstr]

Living in the South is awesome in my view, our formula at TST works and the fans do not gripe about our weekly format. Our track features 2 and 3-wide racing each and every dang week. You can race at TST and the "freight trains " stay on the rails. As I posted on Midsouth, a post that Doc started there I have stated my views that have evolved over the year, costs, the era that we are in and so forth.


We run the absolute tightest shows in the South and we finish on most nights by 10:45p.m. after hot laps start at 7:15p.m.

If you have 20 cars should you really heat race? Maybe, maybe not. We heat race the other 5 classes.



Late Model Mark
TST Announcer

Just wondering. Do you have more than 20 cars in the other 5 classes?

[fastford]

Just wondering. Do you have more than 20 cars in the other 5 classes?

not any more, the steel sportsmans are usually the largest late model type class, the hot shots/ pony's have grown to be the largest class. but , they have had some of the best side by side racing here lately that ive seen at TST in a long time. some times lesser car count = better racing. 10 years ago there was 40 to 50 cars in every class every sat night, with heat races and B mains and such, we wouldn't get out of there till one to three in the morning..

[bite me too]

the format is the race , you cant have it both ways, you cant say I " hate" the way they race in the south , yet show up and pay your money for 15 years, sorry but this don't add up for me...JMO..

no, the race is the race. some tracks are down there are conducive to great racing and I have seen some winners come from way back. especially at racey tracks like TST, Bulls Gap, Columbus, Rome, Boyds, Magnolia, Charlotte and East Bay. however, there are many more tracks that are not as racey as the ones I've mentioned that are one lane dust bowls where the "fan" gets to see "great" racing for 11th, 12th and 13th...which they rave about. I like to see racers racing and, call me crazy, passing more than 1 car, if that, for the win.

the first 10 -15 races I read about in the south were won by one of the front row starters. the top 5 finishers, in some cases top 10, were virtually the same position at the end as they started. IMO, that's not racing. that's follow the leader, who was the fastest guy that day with little to no passing behind. IMO, that's not racing.

thanks for your opinion.

[A ron]

I'm in Mississippi. As a fan, I actually liked to watch qualifying and be able to hear those throttles being worked. However, now as a rookie driver, trying to learn is tough with qualifying. You start in the back every week no where near any fast cars. It also cuts down on seat time. It's kinda disheartening to pay $35 a pop for a couple of pit passes, $50 for an entry fee (or more), fuel, food, etc to show up run hot laps, qualify, run a b-main and go to the house. $250+ for 15 laps.......

[old fan]

no entry fees plus heat races group qualify like the Big E this weekend

[fastford]

thanks for your opinion.[/QUOTE]

your welcome.

[fastford]

I'm in Mississippi. As a fan, I actually liked to watch qualifying and be able to hear those throttles being worked. However, now as a rookie driver, trying to learn is tough with qualifying. You start in the back every week no where near any fast cars. It also cuts down on seat time. It's kinda disheartening to pay $35 a pop for a couple of pit passes, $50 for an entry fee (or more), fuel, food, etc to show up run hot laps, qualify, run a b-main and go to the house. $250+ for 15 laps.......

in your case, your rite.

[Aces&Eights]

It has been this way down here(Georgia) since sometime in the 80's. In the 70's and before, heats were common, but a cascade of events I think led to the current format, which in my area is practice, qualify, race, no second practice. The 70's were kinda the peak as far as Super Late involvement locally, sure they continued to be run but were in decline except for a brief time in the mid 90's. By the early 00's it was common to have 10 Supers be the FULL field. During the decline the teams with backing usually had brand new cars with professionally built, up to date engines. The bulk of the field ran cars several years old and self maintained and under revved the engines to increase the lifespan.

The "sponsored" teams liked qualifying in lieu of heats because when the track is tacky early, they had the HP advantage and could easily win the pole and not have to pass cars on increasingly one grove tracks. Simple and smart, but a stacked deck to everyone else including the fans. And so it continued, with Super shrinking and Limited growing somewhat.

Then came Crates, I don't hate crates, but I do think there were other options that might have been more exciting to watch. Once crate came along, offering pretty good payouts, all those field fillers in Super saw an opportunity to race within their means, at least for a minute. And they quickly sold all their Super left overs and joined the crate ranks. This was the death knell for local Super Late Model.

I personally prefer, "Draw & Run", but it requires the promoter actually prep the track and it helps to run fewer classes. JMO