Whatever became of GRT on the national scene?

[Aces&Eights]

I can't think of a single touring driver anymore that runs GRT. Anybody know why everyone seems to have departed? I've seen 1 new GRT race within a 100 miles of me in the last 4 seasons and it was a local show at Laurens Speedway in SC, he won. They use to have a tremendous dealer network and stout drivers in the house car and poof... I know they still have a regional presence but the last national event(Crown Jewel) I can remember them winning was 2006 Show Me 100 at West Plains with Wendell driving. I'm sure there have been some more National wins since, but I can't remember one, maybe a SN victory with Jack Sullivan. Seems like around 02' I stopped seeing guys switch to GRT and start to leave, like Ray Cook. Not trying to start a trash session, just curious is all.

[huskerdirt]

GRT is serious about modifieds now. New ones keep popping into my area about every week it seems.

Jeremy Payne drives the GRT house car. They've had some good runs and near misses. I seem to remember GRT having some success down in the southeast in the crate division.

[Aces&Eights]

I'm here in the SE and around me its not the case. 10 years ago you couldn't throw a rock without hitting a GRT in Crate, Limited or Super. Now there only seems to be a few old cars filling the back of the field. Up front its BWRC, Longhorn and Capital. Rocket never was super huge where I am, about 45 mins from Barry Wright shop. There were a few who tried them, but not a lot of success.

[huskerdirt]

That could be. Maybe it was just wild thinking on my part.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I think there are still a fair number of GRT by Fitzgerald in the NLMS and UDLMCS type events.

[weatherman85]

I've lived all my life in the southeast and remember GTRs be the predominant car at one point as well. It seemed in the mid 90s whenever they did driver introductions that about 80% of the field would be in a GRT with the rest in a Barry Wright. Don't hardly ever hear anyone in a GRT anymore as mentioned. I know Michael Page was pretty strong in one at Dixie Speedway. He also won several races in one at the regional level. Not sure if he still runs a GRT was very strong in one when he did. Still though, not on a national level.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Alot of Mod winners on that list.
http://www.teamgrt.com/winnerslist2.html

[Aces&Eights]

Alot of Mod winners on that list.
http://www.teamgrt.com/winnerslist2.html
Thanks for the list. I looked it over, found a couple of Late model wins, 1 local show winners in Alabama and 1 Crate and 1 Limited win in South Georgia... I know Wendell isnt a tour driver anymore, but I wonder why he's not in a GRT, probably more wins in them than anything else?

[MI Dirt Fan]

It looks like they rely on racers to submit their wins so some may not be posted. Seems as though the same can be said for Larry Shaw.

[old fan]

http://www.teamgrt.com/winnerslist2.html

[old fan]

http://larryshaw.com/winners.html

[grt74]

i can take a 2002 to a 2007-8 and be very competitive with a few tweaks,not to mention everyone forgets very quickly who was one of the first to try and build a car that doesn't flex,and everyone thought they were junk,now take a look at todays cars,they were ahead of there time

[MI Dirt Fan]

http://www.teamgrt.com/winnerslist2.html

Dumbf!ck why would you post the same link I did?

[Josh Bayko]

They seem to have shifted focus to modifieds over late models.

[BTExpress]

They seem to have shifted focus to modifieds over late models.

I'd say both GRT & Shaw appear to be out of the Late Model chassis game for the most part..... You have to do what you need to in order to stay in business and pay the bills I guess. Not apples to apples, but kind of like Gary Stanton...went from being a premier builder of sprint cars to building engines for sprint cars, midgets and Dirt Late Models.Totally reinvented himself to stay in the sport. Dirt racing is a tough sport, it is hard to stay on top.....always someone new coming on board trying to knock you off the top of the mountain. Joe Garrison, Larry Shaw and CJ Rayburn all had long runs

[MI Dirt Fan]

Did GRT and Shaw get in when the mod boom began?

[old fan]

Dumbf!ck why would you post the same link I did? just to piss you off, have a nice day

[Aces&Eights]

It looks like they rely on racers to submit their wins so some may not be posted. Seems as though the same can be said for Larry Shaw.

Larry Shaw never had a dominant presence in the SE, GRT was everywhere.

[Aces&Eights]

i can take a 2002 to a 2007-8 and be very competitive with a few tweaks,not to mention everyone forgets very quickly who was one of the first to try and build a car that doesn't flex,and everyone thought they were junk,now take a look at todays cars,they were ahead of there time

Well actually I guess you could say Joe did both. I have both his books and first one touts firm chassis, second goes into flexible chassis. I always thought it odd he went from pillar to post like that, I mean to an extreme. In the span of what 3-4 years he goes from computer car to flex X car... Personally I always thought the flexing X brace and flexing cars was a bad idea.

[fastford]

I can tell you exactly what's wrong with GRT , his initials are JG , met him In Memphis at sentmans race expo several years back , when he found out I wasn't loaded with $$$$ , he wouldn't give me the time of day, a real piece of work.....

[Necrosis]

I can tell you exactly what's wrong with GRT , his initials are JG , met him In Memphis at sentmans race expo several years back , when he found out I wasn't loaded with $$$$ , he wouldn't give me the time of day, a real piece of work.....Yep, I had a run-in with Jorge Guzman as well. He was doing the weed-eating outside of PRI one year, and I asked him if he was accepting new clients in the Orlando area. When I told him my yard was only 1/10 of an acre, he about cut my feet off at the ankles with that dam weedwacker... What a pr!ck.

[Aces&Eights]

I always wondered if it wasn't rooted in his personal life, it seems like he suddenly had a new younger wife and baby a few years back and presto-chango GRT evaporated from the national discussion. To me they were at one time, bigger than rocket was for a while. Rocket may be super supreme(with anchovies) since 2000, but I think prior to that it was the GRT show. It wasn't like performance had dropped off, they just seem like they left, poof.

[fastford]

Yep, I had a run-in with Jorge Guzman as well. He was doing the weed-eating outside of PRI one year, and I asked him if he was accepting new clients in the Orlando area. When I told him my yard was only 1/10 of an acre, he about cut my feet off at the ankles with that dam weedwacker... What a pr!ck.

I have no idea what your talking about , but that's not who im talking about , but you know don't you?

[Necrosis]

I have no idea what your talking about , but that's not who im talking about , but you know don't you?Pretty pretty pretty please tell me you caught my sarcasm.

[fastford]

us dumb azz red necks are a little slow sometimes, but ya, I gets it......lol, by tha way, your name isn't Joe is it?

[Necrosis]

us dumb azz red necks are a little slow sometimes, but ya, I gets it......lol, by tha way, your name isn't Joe is it?Yes, my initials are JG. However, I can only answer any further questions after I receive confirmation of your wealth, and willingness to part with it. Good day, sir.

[RoadtoPennsboro]

There was a time in the tri-state corner of NW PA, Eastern Ohio and SW NY had GRTs at every track. I can't remember who the dealer was? Maybe Bob Close? But mostly, my favorite LM of all tme (the 28B) was a GRT and won many a race and track title from the mid 90s to mid aughts.

[Josh Bayko]

There was a time in the tri-state corner of NW PA, Eastern Ohio and SW NY had GRTs at every track. I can't remember who the dealer was? Maybe Bob Close? But mostly, my favorite LM of all tme (the 28B) was a GRT and won many a race and track title from the mid 90s to mid aughts.

Yeah, the dealer is Bob Close. I believe he's still a GRT dealer, and there's still a pocket of GRT cars up that way, but almost all of em are crates. I think he sells GRT mods too.

[hardracer32]

I can tell you exactly why GRT fell off the face of the Late Model Scene. The best front end they ever designed was the 1996 design. After that, everything they put out was a flop. I had 2 GRT's and they were both good cars. I always ran the underslung cars. You couldn't beat that design. The cars were great as far as from a contsruction standpoint, but even in 2007 when I got my last new car, everybody was still ordering the 96' front end. And the problem with that is that when Rocket came along and put a real front end on a car and people started to see what it was like to have a car that actually steers, then it was pretty much over for GRT. Everybody else started innovating and changing to try and come up with something better than the Rockets. Heck, even GRT made a direct copy of the Rocket front end in 2002. But everybody that got one ran it for like 3 races then cut if off and put the 96 geomertry back on them. Once Rockets started taking off (pun intended) eveybody was switching. A few guys went back to GRT before they bounced to something else, but eventually nobody had any faith in those cars anymore. When big names like Ray Cook started finding other brands it was over. When Ray made the switch to Mastersbilt then a lot of the guys in my area started doing the same thing. A lot of guys also went to Rayburn around here. Now you have all these new chassis guys that really have their crap together and the origianal big name chassis that this sport has know for so long aren't even in the field anymore at national events. Only Rocket really still has a presence on the national scene. Look at the field of any national event and you'll see quite a few Rockets, some Capitals, Longhorns, Bloomquist, Club29. After that you might have one or 2 of one of the other brands. Most likely Mastersbilt, BWRC, Warrior. But hardly ever do you see more than a handful of those cars. I haven't seen a GRT in anything but a local show or midpack regional in a quite a while. If I was buying a new race car I can tell you right now that GRT would be at the bottom of my list. My top pick would be Longhorn, after that probably a Pierce cuz I think Bob builds a good piiece. Then it woudl be a tie between Rocket and Warrior, mainly because Warrior is only a couple of hours from me.

[Aces&Eights]

I can tell you exactly why GRT fell off the face of the Late Model Scene. The best front end they ever designed was the 1996 design. After that, everything they put out was a flop. I had 2 GRT's and they were both good cars. I always ran the underslung cars. You couldn't beat that design. The cars were great as far as from a contsruction standpoint, but even in 2007 when I got my last new car, everybody was still ordering the 96' front end. And the problem with that is that when Rocket came along and put a real front end on a car and people started to see what it was like to have a car that actually steers, then it was pretty much over for GRT. Everybody else started innovating and changing to try and come up with something better than the Rockets. Heck, even GRT made a direct copy of the Rocket front end in 2002. But everybody that got one ran it for like 3 races then cut if off and put the 96 geomertry back on them. Once Rockets started taking off (pun intended) eveybody was switching. A few guys went back to GRT before they bounced to something else, but eventually nobody had any faith in those cars anymore. When big names like Ray Cook started finding other brands it was over. When Ray made the switch to Mastersbilt then a lot of the guys in my area started doing the same thing. A lot of guys also went to Rayburn around here. Now you have all these new chassis guys that really have their crap together and the origianal big name chassis that this sport has know for so long aren't even in the field anymore at national events. Only Rocket really still has a presence on the national scene. Look at the field of any national event and you'll see quite a few Rockets, some Capitals, Longhorns, Bloomquist, Club29. After that you might have one or 2 of one of the other brands. Most likely Mastersbilt, BWRC, Warrior. But hardly ever do you see more than a handful of those cars. I haven't seen a GRT in anything but a local show or midpack regional in a quite a while. If I was buying a new race car I can tell you right now that GRT would be at the bottom of my list. My top pick would be Longhorn, after that probably a Pierce cuz I think Bob builds a good piiece. Then it woudl be a tie between Rocket and Warrior, mainly because Warrior is only a couple of hours from me.

The team I was with in 02' & 03' had 3 cars. The first was a 00' or 01' with the 96' front end, worked great won 2 track titles and many races with it in 02'. Got a new car late in the season with the new front end and debuted it the following year and never could make it go. I was told it was designed with Eastbay in mind as GRT had struggled there for many years and had the RC located to the right a good bit or maybe it migrated to the right. Mid season we parked it and got another new frame w/96' front end and went back to winning.

[AnonymousNate]

now this here is an interesting topic!!!

[jrkracing54]

Yep, I had a run-in with Jorge Guzman as well. He was doing the weed-eating outside of PRI one year, and I asked him if he was accepting new clients in the Orlando area. When I told him my yard was only 1/10 of an acre, he about cut my feet off at the ankles with that dam weedwacker... What a pr!ck.

Hillarious! One of the best replies ever on 4M. John 1*

[Aces&Eights]

I can tell you exactly what's wrong with GRT , his initials are JG , met him In Memphis at sentmans race expo several years back , when he found out I wasn't loaded with $$$$ , he wouldn't give me the time of day, a real piece of work.....
So it was personal...

[GotDirt1313]

Tim Busha still drives a GRT and wins occasionally..

[fastford]

Tim Busha still drives a GRT and wins occasionally..

during grt,s last little run, kilpatric chevy in boaz Al , tim,s sponsor, sent tim out there to hang out with them and he did learn a lot and came back and won some races, once again, a LOT of money swapped hands, but it seems to be over now. Now tim busha is a he!! of a driver , but I think its time for a change.

[fastford]

So it was personal...

Yep. it was.

[Aces&Eights]

Anybody ever try a GRT swing arm car? Just curious.

[Punisher88]

Just posted on GRT's Facebook page that they are almost finished with a new car for Tony Jackson Jr. Late model.

[Aces&Eights]

Just posted on GRT's Facebook page that they are almost finished with a new car for Tony Jackson Jr. Late model.

Didn't he just switch from Disco to Horns or was it the other way round? Seems a lots of chassis switching all around as of late.

[george w]

disco to horns ........ this move surprises the hell outta me !

[dirtdobber45]

Just posted on GRT's Facebook page that they are almost finished with a new car for Tony Jackson Jr. Late model.That is a shock. But maybe this is what they need to get back to a national level.... look how long it took Moyer to get a car good enough to get big names buy them

[powerslide]

It will be ran 5 times if it doesn't win it will be like all the other cars and head on down the road.

[Aces&Eights]

That is a shock. But maybe this is what they need to get back to a national level.... look how long it took Moyer to get a car good enough to get big names buy them

Not long, maybe a few months. I don't think the car was even available to buy till this season, developed last year.

[Aces&Eights]

According to the artcle on DOD, Tony Jackson, Jr. will debut his new goat next week. Said the Longhorn by Weaver was a nice car and he won with it, but wasn't comfortable with it. Supposedly the GRT he's getting is a collaboration between he and JG. Might be interesting, slated to run a MARS race July 15 show and then the Diamond nationals with it.

[huskerdirt]

According to the artcle on DOD, Thomas Jackson, Jr. will debut his new goat next week. Said the Longhorn by Weaver was a nice car and he won with it, but wasn't comfortable with it. Supposedly the GRT he's getting is a collaboration between he and JG. Might be interesting, slated to run a MARS race July 15 show and then the Diamond nationals with it.

That's what they all say..."I'm not comfortable in it".

By this time next year... Jackson won't be in a GRT.

[NormP]

Thomas Jackson Jr.?

[Aces&Eights]

Thomas Jackson Jr.?

Yeah, that's Tony's cousin. LOL

[Barbecueboy]

Yeah, that's Tony's cousin. LOL

And this time next year, he won't be in one either...........

[rakracing]

same old story, if grt wanted to hire big time drivers and spend a fortune they would win again consistently, and everyone would have to have one, if I remember right the longhorn was a turd for years, theres years the rockets where bad to, same as warrior, still believe if theres 12 rockets, 6 longhorns , bloomquists and mbh cars and one warrior and it finishes in the top 5 or wins that's what I want.

[Flathead]

Seems like after Bill Frye left the house car program things kinda starting falling off for GRT not too long after. He was also the man that put them on the map. JMO!

[Aces&Eights]

Seems like after Bill Frye left the house car program things kinda starting falling off for GRT not too long after. He was also the man that put them on the map. JMO!

I dunno, Wendell and Dale McDowell carried it a bit further after Frye and until Wendell left GRT to drive for Durrett around 07' they were still a National player. Once Wendell departed is when I'd say the tide turned, jack Sullivan is good, but maybe not Frye, Wallace or McDowell good and now even he left. So maybe JG just doesn't want to make the effort to be National player anymore, kinda weird.

[zyoung25]

It's seemed like to me they have more of a focus on their mods than they do the lates. They probably are booked way back on mods to build. Those things are everywhere, and they're fast.

[Aces&Eights]

It's seemed like to me they have more of a focus on their mods than they do the lates. They probably are booked way back on mods to build. Those things are everywhere, and they're fast.

Mods are in a lot of places, but I'm not ready to call them, "Fast". They've got similar issues with, "rule creep" and far less economical than when first conceived. I love DLM's, but they are less and less viable to a weekly blue collar guy who wants to race. Anybody know where I could get the original rules for mods, this topic has me thinking?

[zeroracing]

I think Zyoung was meaning the GRT mods are fast, they are very good modifiers and win a ton of races.

[gjohnston]

they have more of a focus on their mods....Those things are everywhere.


^This

A smart business model is one that makes money. Not one that appeases individuals on a message board looking for something to argue about.

There are more modifieds racing than there are late models. At I guess what you would call my local track they get right around 20 late models per night. There are two classes of mods and when the two classes are combined there is anywhere from 45-60 there every night. This means there are a lot more mod customers than there would be LM customers.

[zyoung25]

That's what I was getting at gjohnston. Joe isn't a dummy. If the mods are getting him a ton of business, I wouldn't sink a bunch of money into the development of a late model frame either if the mods are flying out the door.

[Aces&Eights]

^This

A smart business model is one that makes money. Not one that appeases individuals on a message board looking for something to argue about.

There are more modifieds racing than there are late models. At I guess what you would call my local track they get right around 20 late models per night. There are two classes of mods and when the two classes are combined there is anywhere from 45-60 there every night. This means there are a lot more mod customers than there would be LM customers.

Never asked for a mod census, don't care about a mod business plan or your opinion on who has more customers, so what. In case you made a wrong turn, this is the, "Dirt Late Model" section and I think you are the one looking to argue.