Tire Doping and Tire Testing Explained

[HatTrick]

They're all cheaters.

[fastford]

welcome to the circus , it is enjoyable most of the time though....

[Flathead]

Well said HatTrick you are spot on. I used to work for one the biggest tire dope suppliers in the Midwest and people would be amazed at who all buys it it's usually the ones you least expect. To all the people that say it hurts the little guy racing that's not true there's more people running modifieds and the track packer classes using it than anyone else because local tracks don't control it and aren't going to spend the money for lab testing. I don't think it really matters in the end because if you went to the track and everyone went straight to the tire trailer, bought 4 tires, grooved and siped them, put them on and raced and no one had time to prep a tire the same guys would be running up front that are right now. People also need to realize that hoosier tire is probably the biggest crook in dirt racing. They are the biggest opposition in everyone having better tire rules where a guy can go race more places on the same compounds. They want these series having as many compounds to choose from as they can. They don't want hard tire racing look at how much sales they loose. Maybe if they made tires that were a little more consistent this wouldn't be such an issue, and make tires that don't have such a sealing over problem under cautions because that's is the biggest thing that tire dope cures. I've said for the last 20 years this sport needs to be like bass fishing make them take a polygraph test after the race.

[Barbecueboy]

Well said HatTrick you are spot on. I used to work for one the biggest tire dope suppliers in the Midwest and people would be amazed at who all buys it it's usually the ones you least expect. To all the people that say it hurts the little guy racing that's not true there's more people running modifieds and the track packer classes using it than anyone else because local tracks don't control it and aren't going to spend the money for lab testing. I don't think it really matters in the end because if you went to the track and everyone went straight to the tire trailer, bought 4 tires, grooved and siped them, put them on and raced and no one had time to prep a tire the same guys would be running up front that are right now. People also need to realize that hoosier tire is probably the biggest crook in dirt racing. They are the biggest opposition in everyone having better tire rules where a guy can go race more places on the same compounds. They want these series having as many compounds to choose from as they can. They don't want hard tire racing look at how much sales they loose. Maybe if they made tires that were a little more consistent this wouldn't be such an issue, and make tires that don't have such a sealing over problem under cautions because that's is the biggest thing that tire dope cures. I've said for the last 20 years this sport needs to be like bass fishing make them take a polygraph test after the race.

Liars pass polygraph tests every single day............but excellent post.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Well said HatTrick you are spot on. I used to work for one the biggest tire dope suppliers in the Midwest and people would be amazed at who all buys it it's usually the ones you least expect. To all the people that say it hurts the little guy racing that's not true there's more people running modifieds and the track packer classes using it than anyone else because local tracks don't control it and aren't going to spend the money for lab testing. I don't think it really matters in the end because if you went to the track and everyone went straight to the tire trailer, bought 4 tires, grooved and siped them, put them on and raced and no one had time to prep a tire the same guys would be running up front that are right now. People also need to realize that hoosier tire is probably the biggest crook in dirt racing. They are the biggest opposition in everyone having better tire rules where a guy can go race more places on the same compounds. They want these series having as many compounds to choose from as they can. They don't want hard tire racing look at how much sales they loose. Maybe if they made tires that were a little more consistent this wouldn't be such an issue, and make tires that don't have such a sealing over problem under cautions because that's is the biggest thing that tire dope cures. I've said for the last 20 years this sport needs to be like bass fishing make them take a polygraph test after the race.

Hard tire racing sells dope.

[a25rjr]

As I read the threads here on 4m, I begin to realize that most of you are nothing more than fans, most of you don't have actual experience, and most of you are listening to a lot of rumors. I believe fans should have fair knowledge, so I'd like to take a bit of time and explain the processes to you all. I'll start with the "art" of tire doping itself. When talking about tire dope, there are 3 basic things different dopes will accomplish. And there are a lot of dopes out there. Including the one in the add one this page just to the right. --->Anyways, those 3 things are, Softening, Toughening, and Firing. Most tire softening dopes are easy to apply and fast working. I can guarantee you all that no one at this level is using tire softeners. It's far to easy to test and police. Toughening dopes will make the tire last longer. They will resist blistering and peeling, sealing over, and will slow down tire wear. Firing dopes change the point in which the tire will react and make the tire fire off quicker. You will often see drivers spinning their tires in pace laps, this is to either warm up or cool down their tires to make sure they fire off when needed. The dope makes this easier to handle. Dopes can be applied in 2 ways. Rolling them on the outside of the tire, or putting it into the inside of the tire. Both methods require the tire to stay rolling to distribute the dope evenly. MOST tire dopes require a sit time of 1 week or longer to allow the dope to seep into the tire. Now I will explain tire testing. The only half way accurate way to test a tire for dope is to have it lab tested. Tire samples are sent to medical test labs where they burn the sample to expose all of the chemicals within that sample. This takes a while to do, which is why you always see the results 1 to 2 weeks later. Sheets show all of the chemicals in the sample, listed as parts per million of the tire. Here's the kicker, we've learned that using a base sample from the tire manufacturer and deeming anything outside of that base sample as dope, will give false negatives. Tires are rubber, and rubber picks up chemicals from all kinds of things. Transmission fluid spilled in the trailer, dish soap used to mount the tire, etc. The only way to accurate test for tire dope, is to test the specific tire dope itself for a base sample. They need to know what they are actually specifically looking for. Yes, different sanctioning bodies use different labs. Yes, certain labs are better than others. Yes, some dopes will be detected while other dopes won't be detected. It all depends on if that lab has a base sample of that particular tire dope or not. Lab testing of tires is expensive, which is why they don't test every car every night. If they do it at random, that is enough to scare most people. What I will say now you can take it at your best judgement as I will call it opinion, but most people don't understand how wide spread tire doping it. 90% of the people at your local race track on any given Saturday night are tire doping. For most people doping isn't done to get an advantage, it is done to keep up with everyone else. There is no doubt in my mind that these 5 people were tire doping, and there is no doubt in my mind that the majority of those who didn't get caught are doing it as well. To the 5 that got caught, I wouldn't say that they need to stop cheating, I would say that they need to talk to those who didn't get caught and find out what kind of dope they're using that doesn't show up at the lab!Sorry for the jumbled post. After submitting the thread, the forum removed all of my returned lines.

Good post......the only thing I'm not sure of is the 1 week sit. We use a hot box/rotisserie and after 24 hrs the inside of the tire is dry. I believe it has made its way all the way to the surface, but am not 100%!

[drano]

Its called tire soaking for a reason just have them buy the tires at the track the day of the event and problem solved.

[old fan]

how would that work when you don't know how many teams will be there and what race would that pertain you can't do that at every track that just can not work

[plunks7]

There should be no testing of tires of any sort. Open rules including tires. Much easier process, and saves money!!!!!

[old fan]

sorry been like that way with that sanction for years some complain they have too many tire choices , who runs an open tire rule anymore

[tiger]

There should be no testing of tires of any sort. Open rules including tires. Much easier process, and saves money!!!!!

I fear your quite clueless on this one Plunks. It would save the big guys money and kill the little guys. Opening the tire rules up means you have to have many different compounds around at all times. When the outlaws ran a true open tire rule, those guys had up to 100 tires along at a given time.

[plunks7]

That's right, so lets keep it that way.

[drano]

[QUOTE=old fan;2016355]how would that work when you don't know how many teams will be there and what race would that pertain you can't do that at every track that just can not work[/QUO

Sure it would tracks do it all the time used to run at a local track near me it was asphalt at the time they done it every week they had you buy a set of tires when you come in the gate every week ended the tire issue it is really pretty simple.

[mopar92]

Paragraphs man... Use em.

[old fan]

[QUOTE=old fan;2016355]how would that work when you don't know how many teams will be there and what race would that pertain you can't do that at every track that just can not work[/QUOSure it would tracks do it all the time used to run at a local track near me it was asphalt at the time they done it every week they had you buy a set of tires when you come in the gate every week ended the tire issue it is really pretty simple.with a event the like dream car ccounts can be a low as 70 to a high of 140 it can't be done on a high money race car counts varies too much

[drano]

[QUOTE=drano;2016373]with a event the like dream car ccounts can be a low as 70 to a high of 140 it can't be done on a high money race car counts varies too much

You are right.....what was I thinking the guys at Hoosier could never count that high.

[Necrosis]

There are no "medical labs" doing the testing. They use a combination of gas chromatography/mass spectrometry and vapor distillation, something medical labs have no use for. No offense, but this is also a poor explanation of the purposes of tire dope, and the way in which it's achieved.

[old fan]

[QUOTE=old fan;2016410]You are right.....what was I thinking the guys at Hoosier could never count that high.and American racers couldn't build enough

[BIGSTEVE00]

Thanks for breaking that down for everybody that doesn't fully understand it.

[70satomic]

Totally agree , a friend of mine who doped his tires for asphalt racing would always wrap up his tires in plastic I asked him about the plastic wrap he said it was to keep the chemicals in the tire.Well the last time I went to a big dirt race I noticed everyone had their tires wrapped in plastic. Hmmmm?????

[MotoMatt]

At the local level not everyone is buying new tires every week, especially not four of them. When I was working on a car we bought a new left rear maybe once a month and I don't think I ever remember a new front tire on the car in all the years I worked on it. Now, this was an IMCA car and it was on the old hard as hell American Racers and Hoosiers, all we did was grind them every week in the shop between races, we never ground tires at the track. Today, you couldn't do that.

[HatTrick]

Paragraphs man... Use em.You must have gotten frustrated before reading through the whole thing. As I explain in my last line, I have never been able to get the return function to work on this forum. It all looks good in the reply box, as soon as I submit it, all of my returns are removed.
There are no "medical labs" doing the testing. They use a combination of gas chromatography/mass spectrometry and vapor distillation, something medical labs have no use for. No offense, but this is also a poor explanation of the purposes of tire dope, and the way in which it's achieved.Considering the fact that most sanctioning bodies post the actual letters and results from the lab they send it to, I can confidently say that medical test labs are indeed used. As far as a poor explanation, please do enlighten us, as I've yet to see you make an effort to do so.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

You must have gotten frustrated before reading through the whole thing. As I explain in my last line, I have never been able to get the return function to work on this forum. It all looks good in the reply box, as soon as I submit it, all of my returns are removed. Considering the fact that most sanctioning bodies post the actual letters and results from the lab they send it to, I can confidently say that medical test labs are indeed used. As far as a poor explanation, please do enlighten us, as I've yet to see you make an effort to do so.Well, you covered the two replies I seen.

Thanks for the info man. Good stuff.

[Kromulous]

Funniest thing to me is, a 100 lap race, tire dope wont hold up. Meaning you will have over a second a lap fall off from the start to the end of the race.

30 to 50 lap races you can notice it on the watch.