The Dream Tire Appeal Hearing Monday

[mndirtman]

2 Questions.


1. According to Bloomer the test came back as, "nothing was added to the tire, but a chemical is missing from the tires. How can a chemical be missing from the tire and what is this chemical that is missing?

2. When will be hear the results from the appeal?

Thanks

Monty

[Highside Hustler25]

Tomorrow I believe.

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

So bloomer is the spokes person for the appeal.

He said " il handle this guys, i got us into this il get us out TRUST ME!

[old fan]

it would be like trusting Hillary or Obama

[25 Jay 53]

it would be like trusting Hillary or Obama

That means that Scott, Jimmy, Brandon, Gregg, and Ricky will all end up dead! That's a harsh penalty for tire doping.

[Dirt Racing #1]

it would be like trusting Hillary or ObamaOr a guy that wears a cape 😋

[dirtlmfan]

2 Questions.


1. According to Bloomer the test came back as, "nothing was added to the tire, but a chemical is missing from the tires. How can a chemical be missing from the tire and what is this chemical that is missing?

2. When will be hear the results from the appeal?

Thanks

Monty

This has been happening all season with samples that have been sent to a certain lab in North Carolina. That same question has been asked by many weekly racers who's tires 'did not meet the benchmark'. While I'm not a chemical engineer, one would think if a chemical was added to a tire to neutralize another chemical in that tire, wouldn't traces of the chemical added show up? I do know for a fact that this particular lab has had samples sent in of the same tire ran two nights in a row, with absolutely nothing done to the tire, and the graphs look completely different.

[cutman]

This has been happening all season with samples that have been sent to a certain lab in North Carolina. That same question has been asked by many weekly racers who's tires 'did not meet the benchmark'. While I'm not a chemical engineer, one would think if a chemical was added to a tire to neutralize another chemical in that tire, wouldn't traces of the chemical added show up? I do know for a fact that this particular lab has had samples sent in of the same tire ran two nights in a row, with absolutely nothing done to the tire, and the graphs look completely different.

Who are all of these other drivers that have had the same results???

[dirtlmfan]

Who are all of these other drivers that have had the same results???

Willie Milliken, Andrew Durham, and Jeff Parsons are 3 racers just in North Carolina who were called wrong, but there have been several others. Durham was called wrong after a big modified win early in the season at Friendship. He argued this same point, but still served his suspension, paid his fine, and came back to win again, only to be called wrong with a set stickers. This whole tire thing has gotten ridiculous this season.

[Barbecueboy]

This has been happening all season with samples that have been sent to a certain lab in North Carolina. That same question has been asked by many weekly racers who's tires 'did not meet the benchmark'. While I'm not a chemical engineer, one would think if a chemical was added to a tire to neutralize another chemical in that tire, wouldn't traces of the chemical added show up? I do know for a fact that this particular lab has had samples sent in of the same tire ran two nights in a row, with absolutely nothing done to the tire, and the graphs look completely different.
Hush your mouth.....labs don't make mistakes ever.....the drivers are cheaters.

Right guys?

[old fan]

That means that Scott, Jimmy, Brandon, Gregg, and Ricky will all end up dead! That's a harsh penalty for tire doping.no we will all be dead trusting those 2

[oldfart50]

For once, you are correct...
Hush your mouth.....labs don't make mistakes ever.....the drivers are cheaters. Right guys?

[rayburnracer18]

it would be like trusting Hillary or Obama

or Trump, they're all crooked.

[cgrace]

the tests just show tires arent same as benchmark from hoosier drivershavebitched for yearsthat doesnt takeheat and wear seems same to me plus like-3-4 years ago didnt they pause tests cause lab was having errors

[dirtlmfan]

Hush your mouth.....labs don't make mistakes ever.....the drivers are cheaters.

Right guys?

Yeah right. And I've got some ocean front property in good ol' Wilkes County I'll sell you BBQboy. Lol.
The thing that I really find hard to understand is how they can determine what chemical is what. All the lab does is cook the sample and use a spectrometer to measure how dense the 'smoke' from the chemicals are at various times through the cycle. If the 'smoke' is more or less dense at certain times compared to the new sample supplied by the manufacturer, then it 'does not meet the benchmark'. Hoosier reps themselves cannot tell anyone what chemicals release out of the samples at a given cook time, much less how dense the 'smoke' will be. Wouldn't a tire that has been thru various number of heat cycles react differently than a new sample that has never been on the track?

[Barbecueboy]

Yeah right. And I've got some ocean front property in good ol' Wilkes County I'll sell you BBQboy. Lol.
The thing that I really find hard to understand is how they can determine what chemical is what. All the lab does is cook the sample and use a spectrometer to measure how dense the 'smoke' from the chemicals are at various times through the cycle. If the 'smoke' is more or less dense at certain times compared to the new sample supplied by the manufacturer, then it 'does not meet the benchmark'. Hoosier reps themselves cannot tell anyone what chemicals release out of the samples at a given cook time, much less how dense the 'smoke' will be. Wouldn't a tire that has been thru various number of heat cycles react differently than a new sample that has never been on the track?

Details, details, details..............shhhhhhhhhhhhh, don't talk too loudly......you will be labeled a conspirorist, or worse.

[Barbecueboy]

For once, you are correct...

For once huh???? Duly noted.


You a poultry or wild game fan?

[muddy mike]

does anybody know what happened at the hearing ?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Yeah right. And I've got some ocean front property in good ol' Wilkes County I'll sell you BBQboy. Lol.
The thing that I really find hard to understand is how they can determine what chemical is what. All the lab does is cook the sample and use a spectrometer to measure how dense the 'smoke' from the chemicals are at various times through the cycle. If the 'smoke' is more or less dense at certain times compared to the new sample supplied by the manufacturer, then it 'does not meet the benchmark'. Hoosier reps themselves cannot tell anyone what chemicals release out of the samples at a given cook time, much less how dense the 'smoke' will be. Wouldn't a tire that has been thru various number of heat cycles react differently than a new sample that has never been on the track?

Spectrometry is much more scientific than you make it sound.

[ClampedUp]

does anybody know what happened at the hearing ?

Kind of funny that WRG/WoO haven't come out with a release by now.
If the "lab" results were so cut and dry the appeal process should have been swiftly denied.
As I stated before this one could turn into a legal mess as there are some teams involved with very deep pockets to push the issue.

[Bigracer93]

Rumor has it that Hoosier won't testify on UMP/WRG's behalf so that can't make their argument look good

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Rumor has it that Hoosier won't testify on UMP/WRG's behalf so that can't make their argument look good

They have relationships with drivers.

[Barbecueboy]

Kind of funny that WRG/WoO haven't come out with a release by now.
If the "lab" results were so cut and dry the appeal process should have been swiftly denied.
As I stated before this one could turn into a legal mess as there are some teams involved with very deep pockets to push the issue.

No man.....it's cut and dry.....they're all cheaters.........some on here have staked their posting reputations on it they are so certain.

Too bad, I was kinda liking Bshep and Thornton a little bit too..........but since they are scumbag cheaters, not so much ........right?

[W2Racing09]

The lab makes its living off things like this, they wouldn't be in business if they didn't know what they were doing. I also don't understand why it is so difficult for everyone to believe they could be cheating, I don't necessarily think it is reason to not like said drivers. I think everyone out there is doing something outside of the rule book whether that be Richards, Davenport or some local Street Stock drivers. It is just the nature of it. This week these five got caught, next week... who knows?

[ClampedUp]

The lab makes its living off things like this, they wouldn't be in business if they didn't know what they were doing. I also don't understand why it is so difficult for everyone to believe they could be cheating, I don't necessarily think it is reason to not like said drivers. I think everyone out there is doing something outside of the rule book whether that be Richards, Davenport or some local Street Stock drivers. It is just the nature of it. This week these five got caught, next week... who knows?

Labs of all kinds can and do make mistakes more than you think.
If WRG/WoO/UMP and their lab are so confident of the results they should remove all doubt and send the samples to another lab to get independent verification to back up the original results.

[jog49]

You learn something everyday. Never would I have guessed we had so many scientists on 4M! LOL!

[W2Racing09]

Labs of all kinds can and do make mistakes more than you think.
If WRG/WoO/UMP and their lab are so confident of the results they should remove all doubt and send the samples to another lab to get independent verification to back up the original results.

I agree, that would be next logical step scientifically. I'm sure labs do make mistakes but I certainly don't think it is commonplace. This place is used by the State of NC for testing as well, I doubt they could just be messing up tests all the time and still have that deal.

[Barbecueboy]

I agree, that would be next logical step scientifically. I'm sure labs do make mistakes but I certainly don't think it is commonplace. This place is used by the State of NC for testing as well, I doubt they could just be messing up tests all the time and still have that deal.

The state of NC doesn't use them to test tires........maybe the teams should require something from the tire manufacturers showing the chain of command of the tire prior to purchase........where it's been, the breakdown of the specifics of the tire, who touched it or delivered it and how was it delivered and could it have come in contact with some contaminant.

Kinda like an affidavit .........it's only fair since the drivers are the end users and can't really account for where the tire has been prior to then getting it.

[Barbecueboy]

The lab makes its living off things like this, they wouldn't be in business if they didn't know what they were doing. I also don't understand why it is so difficult for everyone to believe they could be cheating, I don't necessarily think it is reason to not like said drivers. I think everyone out there is doing something outside of the rule book whether that be Richards, Davenport or some local Street Stock drivers. It is just the nature of it. This week these five got caught, next week... who knows?

I can't figure out ( with the exception of the haters) why several people are so steadfastly finding it impossible for the process to have a flaw in it and for the lab to be wrong this time........most likely not,but impossible, not hardly.

[W2Racing09]

I can't figure out ( with the exception of the haters) why several people are so steadfastly finding it impossible for the process to have a flaw in it and for the lab to be wrong this time........most likely not,but impossible, not hardly.

I'm not saying it is impossible that they made a mistake -- I'm just saying that some people here are basically guaranteeing that they are incorrect. I don't understand that, it is certainly significantly more likely than not that the lab is correct. As you said, it isn't impossible that they made a mistake but it certainly is unlikely. Meanwhile I think we have all heard a term similar to "It's only cheating if you get caught" or "If you aint cheatin' you aint tryin'" out of the mouth of a racer - I know I have many times. It is common knowledge that drivers bend the rules as much as possible and have no problem working outside of them if they think the chances of getting caught are low.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[IZZOJR16]

The lab makes its living off things like this, they wouldn't be in business if they didn't know what they were doing. I also don't understand why it is so difficult for everyone to believe they could be cheating, I don't necessarily think it is reason to not like said drivers. I think everyone out there is doing something outside of the rule book whether that be Richards, Davenport or some local Street Stock drivers. It is just the nature of it. This week these five got caught, next week... who knows? winner winner chicken dinner ^^^^

[IZZOJR16]

I can't figure out ( with the exception of the haters) why several people are so steadfastly finding it impossible for the process to have a flaw in it and for the lab to be wrong this time........most likely not,but impossible, not hardly. I'm willing to bet if they indeed "got it wrong", it would be the other way around, and benefit a cheating driver. just a guess.

[427c.i.]

I just find it funny that when Feger brought all this stuff up a few years ago, he was crucified. He claimed the cleaner he used caused the test to come back "dirty" and it's now well known that Simple Green can cause a tire to test tampered. Same arguments, same findings, took a lie detector test etc, etc. Everything he did to try to prove his innocence was met with nay sayers telling him to suck it up and take his lumps.
A lot of those same people are now crying foul, the tests are flawed, the sample collecting process is flawed.
It will be very interesting to see what happens with this as I think Mr. Feger would have a strong case if things get reversed in the appeals process.

[blncfn57]

I can't figure out ( with the exception of the haters) why several people are so steadfastly finding it impossible for the process to have a flaw in it and for the lab to be wrong this time........most likely not,but impossible, not hardly.

I say it because I have been in shops and have heard the things that racers do, I've spoken to former crew chiefs, that are no longer in the sport, about this very topic. Tires have been a big deal for alot of years and still are today. You can do what you want to the car, but at the end of the day, there are only 4 rubber things touching the track. Seems pretty obvious why it would be an area to try and get an advantage.
IF these penalties are overturned because of a mistake on Hoosiers part, does that still cause everyone to be up in arms with the sanctioning body and the lab? IMO, if it's a mess up on hoosiers part, they should eat the fines and penalties levied against the drivers.

Yes, I've been vocal about my opinion on this, but if it comes out that the lab made a mistake, I will be on here to take my lumps. lol

[stewart fan]

Feger was caught twice first excuse was belle clair was next to a sewage treatment plant,very creative to say the least!

[slydejob18]

427ci -- I like your post from 2 perspectives.

First: If they stood by their results with Feger, flawed or not, it's because the sanctioning body made a decision and stuck with it. That's obviously the case.
Second: If they had reversed their decision with Feger on appeal, think how many MORE naysayers there would have been this time around with 5 drivers involved!
IMO, the sanctioning body has to stick with its decision, period. If they start picking and choosing, they'll look even more wishy washy and less trustworthy. If there's a testing flaw discovered during the process, you absolutely fix it so that you reduce the margin for error next time..........and there will be a next time.

Let's get back to racing -- ASAP

Go 18!!

[cgrace]

slydejob18 has good poiints if they reverse on reasons they told others that it didn't matter does it open class action lawsuit. thought dirtcar doesn't car why or how tirs dont match standards

[cgrace]

if lab is wrong what about the other 65+tests are they all wrong?

[70satomic]

UMP has a history of claiming that someone's tires are cheated up I'd like to see a reputable lab do the test

[Jet Jockey]

As someone who is subject to random drug testing, I make sure the process is followed to a T because failing a test could be catastrophic to my career. Hopefully this is a wake-up call to the teams to make sure the stated process is followed. I have no idea if these guys were juicing tires, but it seems that both the teams and Sam were very lack luster in the process. The teams have to be more proactive in the collection of sample process. Also, I was a bit concerned when Sam stated that identifying the tires by serial number was not required. I highly doubt any mistakes were made on the actual testing in the lab. Unlike some of the goofballs at WRG, those guys are professionals.

[toast]

ALERT- Owens is making me sound better all the time by getting caught, I have repeated this several times on here, Owens has been juicing tires from the beginning of his career in late-model!! Bloomer is another one, That's why him and owens couldn't get along, One holding out on the other for a advantage!!!

[427c.i.]

Feger was caught twice first excuse was belle clair was next to a sewage treatment plant,very creative to say the least!

No win or money was taken from Feger at Belle Claire and if memory serves, the tests were "inconclusive."

[Barbecueboy]

I'm willing to bet if they indeed "got it wrong", it would be the other way around, and benefit a cheating driver. just a guess.

I don't necessarily think it's the lab that got it wrong ( if anybody did) just the entire process from start to finish needs to be addressed............

How does a guy really know what the makeup of the tire is when he gets it new?who touched it.....what it may have come into contact with in shipping.....if it is even the same tire as the one being sent in as the benchmark, etc. etc. etc.

Too many questions and not enough answers for my liking.......

[427c.i.]

I don't necessarily think it's the lab that got it wrong ( if anybody did) just the entire process from start to finish needs to be addressed............

How does a guy really know what the makeup of the tire is when he gets it new?who touched it.....what it may have come into contact with in shipping.....if it is even the same tire as the one being sent in as the benchmark, etc. etc. etc.

Too many questions and not enough answers for my liking.......

Exactly.....

[stewart fan]

The sewer treatment argument worked you are correct

[Barbecueboy]

I say it because I have been in shops and have heard the things that racers do, I've spoken to former crew chiefs, that are no longer in the sport, about this very topic. Tires have been a big deal for alot of years and still are today. You can do what you want to the car, but at the end of the day, there are only 4 rubber things touching the track. Seems pretty obvious why it would be an area to try and get an advantage.
IF these penalties are overturned because of a mistake on Hoosiers part, does that still cause everyone to be up in arms with the sanctioning body and the lab? IMO, if it's a mess up on hoosiers part, they should eat the fines and penalties levied against the drivers.

Yes, I've been vocal about my opinion on this, but if it comes out that the lab made a mistake, I will be on here to take my lumps. lol
I'm pretty sure I've questioned the entire process , not just the labs involvement.......actually , no I'm certain of it.

I guess my biggest questions about this whole deal are a couple that were involved.....satterlee??? Bshep?????.......I guess I just have too much faith in humanity, because I just don't see them doing it.

And wherever ( if any ) mistakes were made makes no difference if it was at the lab, the track, on the truck getting to the distributor or whatever..........the system sux and leaves too much room for doubt.

But for your sake and the sake of the other executioners that have hung them all high and dry with the cheater label...........hope you guys are all right.

Cause the lumps, they will be a comin.

[Barbecueboy]

I say it because I have been in shops and have heard the things that racers do, I've spoken to former crew chiefs, that are no longer in the sport, about this very topic. Tires have been a big deal for alot of years and still are today. You can do what you want to the car, but at the end of the day, there are only 4 rubber things touching the track. Seems pretty obvious why it would be an area to try and get an advantage.
IF these penalties are overturned because of a mistake on Hoosiers part, does that still cause everyone to be up in arms with the sanctioning body and the lab? IMO, if it's a mess up on hoosiers part, they should eat the fines and penalties levied against the drivers.

Yes, I've been vocal about my opinion on this, but if it comes out that the lab made a mistake, I will be on here to take my lumps. lol

And fwiw, you are certainly not the only person ever to grace the doorway of a race shop, a pit area or go on extended road trips with a race team...........I guess it depends on who you race with as to how you form your opinions of racers and race teams.

[Barbecueboy]

As someone who is subject to random drug testing, I make sure the process is followed to a T because failing a test could be catastrophic to my career. Hopefully this is a wake-up call to the teams to make sure the stated process is followed. I have no idea if these guys were juicing tires, but it seems that both the teams and Sam were very lack luster in the process. The teams have to be more proactive in the collection of sample process. Also, I was a bit concerned when Sam stated that identifying the tires by serial number was not required. I highly doubt any mistakes were made on the actual testing in the lab. Unlike some of the goofballs at WRG, those guys are professionals.

Did you say goofballs?.......

[MUD MAESTRO]

EZ fix.......Mandate one hard compound tire and let them soak as long as they like. Then listen to Hoosier squawk like the money robbers they are. It's time to get tires out of the equation.

[Barbecueboy]

EZ fix.......Mandate one hard compound tire and let them soak as long as they like. Then listen to Hoosier squawk like the money robbers they are. It's time to get tires out of the equation.

Did someone say chicken dinner earlier?????

Nice maestro........very nice

[Barbecueboy]

EZ fix.......Mandate one hard compound tire and let them soak as long as they like. Then listen to Hoosier squawk like the money robbers they are. It's time to get tires out of the equation.

It's never good to allow someone to basically have the market cornered...........some good healthy tire competition would do the sport a world of good.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

And fwiw, you are certainly not the only person ever to grace the doorway of a race shop, a pit area or go on extended road trips with a race team...........I guess it depends on who you race with as to how you form your opinions of racers and race teams.And most of the ones I know, either juice their tires, or tried it, and thought it was a waste, or just not worth the risk. I do believe in the statement you keep poking fun at, that they all cheat. Cheating, gray area, whatever you wanna call it, you don't run up front and stay up front if you aren't always thinking, trying new things, working outside the box, testing etc.

Satterlee, Thornton, and BShep are the only reasons I have my doubts. Owens and Bloomer been around the block and I think will try anything to get ahead. But if these tests in some miraculous way aren't 100% conclusive, or have a flaw, then they'll all walk as they should IMO.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

It's never good to allow someone to basically have the market cornered...........some good healthy tire competition would do the sport a world of good.American Racer has tried to take Hoosier to court, they lost. I agree though, there was plenty of guys who liked the AR's better, but if you aren't allowed to run them then you're SOL. Should most certainly let them back in though.

[Barbecueboy]

So the hearings were yesterday............everybody knows they are all cheaters , it's totally cut and dry.

How long are we needing to wait to hear ump say this ?

After all, it's a lock right??? No question about it??? They all are cheaters...........many of you guys have said it over and over.

Why the wait in just coming out and saying it???........not real hard to say" DENIED" and move along is it?

[Barbecueboy]

And most of the ones I know, either juice their tires, or tried it, and thought it was a waste, or just not worth the risk. I do believe in the statement you keep poking fun at, that they all cheat. Cheating, gray area, whatever you wanna call it, you don't run up front and stay up front if you aren't always thinking, trying new things, working outside the box, testing etc.

Satterlee, Thornton, and BShep are the only reasons I have my doubts. Owens and Bloomer been around the block and I think will try anything to get ahead. But if these tests in some miraculous way aren't 100% conclusive, or have a flaw, then they'll all walk as they should IMO.

We think similarly on your last paragraph.......had they gotten bloomer or had they gotten Jimmy or just those two I could look back at history and say yeah, maybe so.( but still not be 100% convinced)

But to get them two , and the other three just doesn't pass the sniff test( pun intended )

The whole thing is a farce.........and only destined to get uglier the longer the bad process is in place.

I've said it before.........somebody with some wherewithal and backing is going to hurt somebody's feelings and wallet over something like this...........and that's when it will change.

[Barbecueboy]

American Racer has tried to take Hoosier to court, they lost. I agree though, there was plenty of guys who liked the AR's better, but if you aren't allowed to run them then you're SOL. Should most certainly let them back in though.

Monopolies are broken up every day.........time to tackle this one.

Consumers deserve better and healthy competition keeps everybody a little more honest with their pricing.

[Josh Bayko]

Monopolies are broken up every day.........time to tackle this one.

Consumers deserve better and healthy competition keeps everybody a little more honest with their pricing.

Hoosier is far, far away from being a monopoly. If it was, one of the three major lawsuits thrown at them over the years would have been successful.

American Racer started this exclusive tire rule game way back when under a different name, and since have been consistently outplayed at that game. It's not Hoosier's fault that their competition is lackluster.

[old fan]

yeah meat head try it what did hoosier do wrong they supplied the tire

[XRACER1993]

This may cause a lot of flak on my statement, but if "these " tires were hot.. make the racers buy them at the track ..or, stamp them with a certain color, . or... get rid of Hoosier altogether , and run rock hard E C 2 McCreary tires... ?

[old fan]

Really those tires have to be prepped before raced andsinve is putting good to the sanction good luck with ec 2

[plunks7]

The only test that comes back 100% is DNA. Let them run and do what ever the hell they want, to the tires!!!! If this is the only thing the Tech guys Tech. What the hell good are they? Get more into the nuts and bolts of things, like get your hands dirty. Stick your nose under a tarp, on a rear end. Remember it is "OPEN Late Models. Seems to me this is the only rule (tires) in all Series. Why is it called a Rules Book when there is only one rule? It should just be called Rule 1) Tires : Blah, Blah, Blah. Rule 2) Revert back to Rule 1.

What I am getting at, get rid of the tire BS rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Hovlane]

Has anyone after having been denied at appeal ever taken it any further? Like suing the sanctioning body in a actual court of law.

[Snake X3]

The only test that comes back 100% is DNA. Let them run and do what ever the hell they want, to the tires!!!! If this is the only thing the Tech guys Tech. What the hell good are they? Get more into the nuts and bolts of things, like get your hands dirty. Stick your nose under a tarp, on a rear end. Remember it is "OPEN Late Models. Seems to me this is the only rule (tires) in all Series. Why is it called a Rules Book when there is only one rule? It should just be called Rule 1) Tires : Blah, Blah, Blah. Rule 2) Revert back to Rule 1.

What I am getting at, get rid of the tire BS rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is possibly the best post you've ever written.

[W2Racing09]

The only test that comes back 100% is DNA. Let them run and do what ever the hell they want, to the tires!!!! If this is the only thing the Tech guys Tech. What the hell good are they? Get more into the nuts and bolts of things, like get your hands dirty. Stick your nose under a tarp, on a rear end. Remember it is "OPEN Late Models. Seems to me this is the only rule (tires) in all Series. Why is it called a Rules Book when there is only one rule? It should just be called Rule 1) Tires : Blah, Blah, Blah. Rule 2) Revert back to Rule 1.

What I am getting at, get rid of the tire BS rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The drivers don't even want tire altering to be legal. That is completely aside from all the health consequences of prolonged exposure to the stuff for drivers and crew members and even fans who are inhaling dust at the tracks.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Hoosier is far, far away from being a monopoly. If it was, one of the three major lawsuits thrown at them over the years would have been successful.

American Racer started this exclusive tire rule game way back when under a different name, and since have been consistently outplayed at that game. It's not Hoosier's fault that their competition is lackluster.

Let's say I have the capability and capital to enter the DLM tire market. I can't.

[Barbecueboy]

Hoosier is far, far away from being a monopoly. If it was, one of the three major lawsuits thrown at them over the years would have been successful.

American Racer started this exclusive tire rule game way back when under a different name, and since have been consistently outplayed at that game. It's not Hoosier's fault that their competition is lackluster.

True enough, and monopoly was a poor choice of words.........but like everything else about tires and racing right now, things need to be changed,including that , finalized and put to mother ducking bed........ the guys in the tire game that can do that the quickest and actually be a good solution for racing all wear purple.

Bring the tires race ready.......several compounds........here they are......stfu go race.

I'm thankful for all the cogs in the wheel that make big time dirt late model racing go.......( some much more than others)it's hard to be a huge supporter in one hand and a questioner of the establishment in the other........but dam people, we are talking about tires weeks later instead of the great win that what's his name had at thingamajig.

Yessireebob......all is well......nothing to see here......just a bunch of cheatin a ss racers tryin to break the bank.

[Snake X3]

It's never good to allow someone to basically have the market cornered...........some good healthy tire competition would do the sport a world of good.

I agree. It ties in nicely with the concept of "open competition". It's like the concept of personal liberty. It's a black and white concept....either you have it or you don't. As soon as the first regulation is applied, especially in the name of "fairness" it ceases to exist and becomes something else.

For me, the appeal of DLMR is it's throwback to the golden age of Indy car racing where real men used their brains to innovate, their hands to build and their skill and courage to navigate their machines from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Today's DLM racers embody the spirit of men like AJ Foyt, Smokey Yunick and Ray Harroun. Guys that try to push the boundaries to go faster aren't the problem, but the salvation of the true spirit of racing and the quest for speed.

[blncfn57]

I'm pretty sure I've questioned the entire process , not just the labs involvement.......actually , no I'm certain of it.

I guess my biggest questions about this whole deal are a couple that were involved.....satterlee??? Bshep?????.......I guess I just have too much faith in humanity, because I just don't see them doing it.

And wherever ( if any ) mistakes were made makes no difference if it was at the lab, the track, on the truck getting to the distributor or whatever..........the system sux and leaves too much room for doubt.

But for your sake and the sake of the other executioners that have hung them all high and dry with the cheater label...........hope you guys are all right.

Cause the lumps, they will be a comin.

Yes, the 2 you mention are the hardest to believe.... I agree

How did only 5 of 32 get deemed illegal? I've asked that over and over and everyone that wants to bicker over my posts ignores that question.

Doesn't it strike you as funny that none of the other drivers are standing up for the accused? Cuz they all know the doping is going on, MANY have since said it is, but nobody is coming to the defense of these 5. Yes, it sucks for the guys that got found illegal and in no post have I ever said they were bad people for doping tires.

Here's a twist for you... what if UMP dropped all the fines and penalties, would it be because of a bad batch of tires? A bad test? Or would it be an under the table deal between the brass at UMP and the money guys that fund these cars? We will never know, all we can do is speculate.

[plunks7]

The drivers don't even want tire altering to be legal. That is completely aside from all the health consequences of prolonged exposure to the stuff for drivers and crew members and even fans who are inhaling dust at the tracks.

The air we breathe isn't healthy, even if were not at a race. Like sitting in your back yard around a fire, burning green wood. Or a simple fart with gases. :) Back in the day did you ever go to a party and burn tires? They burn for along time. Or did you go home when they started to burn? Your answer is not making me think any different. So if a motor is blown, break line broke or a rear end smoking do you hold your nose? Where a mask then you won't have to worry about anything is my suggestion!! Just saying!!

[Barbecueboy]

The only test that comes back 100% is DNA. Let them run and do what ever the hell they want, to the tires!!!! If this is the only thing the Tech guys Tech. What the hell good are they? Get more into the nuts and bolts of things, like get your hands dirty. Stick your nose under a tarp, on a rear end. Remember it is "OPEN Late Models. Seems to me this is the only rule (tires) in all Series. Why is it called a Rules Book when there is only one rule? It should just be called Rule 1) Tires : Blah, Blah, Blah. Rule 2) Revert back to Rule 1.

What I am getting at, get rid of the tire BS rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's downright presidential right there........

[old fan]

really now http://www.hoosiertire.com/safetywarning/index.htm

[fryefan]

The only test that comes back 100% is DNA. Let them run and do what ever the hell they want, to the tires!!!! If this is the only thing the Tech guys Tech. What the hell good are they? Get more into the nuts and bolts of things, like get your hands dirty. Stick your nose under a tarp, on a rear end. Remember it is "OPEN Late Models. Seems to me this is the only rule (tires) in all Series. Why is it called a Rules Book when there is only one rule? It should just be called Rule 1) Tires : Blah, Blah, Blah. Rule 2) Revert back to Rule 1.

What I am getting at, get rid of the tire BS rules!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Completely disagree. They actually need to test more of them and nail the cheaters.

[plunks7]

Completely disagree. They actually need to test more of them and nail the cheaters.

They all cheat in some form. Ask Ray Guss!!!!!

[Barbecueboy]

Yes, the 2 you mention are the hardest to believe.... I agree

How did only 5 of 32 get deemed illegal? I've asked that over and over and everyone that wants to bicker over my posts ignores that question.

Doesn't it strike you as funny that none of the other drivers are standing up for the accused? Cuz they all know the doping is going on, MANY have since said it is, but nobody is coming to the defense of these 5. Yes, it sucks for the guys that got found illegal and in no post have I ever said they were bad people for doping tires.

Here's a twist for you... what if UMP dropped all the fines and penalties, would it be because of a bad batch of tires? A bad test? Or would it be an under the table deal between the brass at UMP and the money guys that fund these cars? We will never know, all we can do is speculate.

kinda sux , don't it?

All the tremendous effort and loyalty that it takes to do all of this revolves around garbage in /garbage out technology for final results...... ......best thing to do with tires is to do nothing......everybody knows it.

I hope it works out for all involved , good guys or bad guys.......guess who's who depends on which side of the fence you're on.

[Barbecueboy]

really now http://www.hoosiertire.com/safetywarning/index.htm

Is that sorta like the tag you're not supposed to tear off the pilla?

[old fan]

but its only life or death

[Barbecueboy]

The drivers don't even want tire altering to be legal. That is completely aside from all the health consequences of prolonged exposure to the stuff for drivers and crew members and even fans who are inhaling dust at the tracks.

So are you just speculating that treated tires throw off more carcinogenic flecks of dust than do the non treated tires??

Is there proof or is it more bad tire rule lore?

[jensenracing18]

So are you just speculating that treated tires throw off more carcinogenic flecks of dust than do the non treated tires??Is there proof or is it more bad tire rule lore?i could imagine some truth to this..prep is coming off from the tires into the racing surface and then into the air... i know after a night of racing at the kart track with everyone on prepped tires my nose and throat are dry and sore and you can almost taste the tire prep the next day.. its nasty stuff...but it smells so good ;)

[old fan]

gotcha bbq

[Barbecueboy]

i could imagine some truth to this..prep is coming off from the tires into the racing surface and then into the air... i know after a night of racing at the kart track with everyone on prepped tires my nose and throat are dry and sore and you can almost taste the tire prep the next day.. its nasty stuff...but it smells so good ;)
Like you....I can only imagine it wouldn't be that great for anyone to breath in.

But I also can't imagine the carcinogens that are in non treated tires blowing all around in the air can be too good either.

That whole breathing in treated tire dust argument is just a weak attempt at fear mongoring by the status quo.......unless of course somebody has legitimate data to look at.

Neither dust is healthy, time for that argument to be proven or put to rest as fodder.

[drano]

If the prep is coming off the tire into the racing surface it seems like an untreated tire could pick it up and could then be tested as treated also.

[old fan]

but its less the 7 ounces lmfao

[Barbecueboy]

If the prep is coming off the tire into the racing surface it seems like an untreated tire could pick it up and could then be tested as treated also.

This tire conversation has no room for common sense .......please don't bring anymore into this thread.

[W2Racing09]

Like you....I can only imagine it wouldn't be that great for anyone to breath in.

But I also can't imagine the carcinogens that are in non treated tires blowing all around in the air can be too good either.

That whole breathing in treated tire dust argument is just a weak attempt at fear mongoring by the status quo.......unless of course somebody has legitimate data to look at.

Neither dust is healthy, time for that argument to be proven or put to rest as fodder.

So you are saying that you believe the dust created by untreated tires is equally unhealthy compared to dust created by treated tires? I don't think data is needed to say obviously the more chemicals added to the equation the more dangerous it becomes. Obviously neither is good for us, but I do hope to avoid dying as a result of dust inhaled at the races for as long as possible. That aside there should at least be some concern for drivers and crew members who would have to work with this stuff on a regular basis.

What is driving this sudden desire to change decades old tire rules?

Is it because your favorite driver may have been caught? I don't get it. These have been the rules pretty much forever and now that a few high profile drivers have been slapped with a penalty (which could still be overturned) everyone thinks the rules need changed? I would at the very least ask the drivers how they would feel about such a change. I see Fastrak did that and I didn't see a single driver say they wanted to be able to use tire prep.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[old fan]

if the manufacturs give a warning shouldn't heed to it for example would put ford trany fluid don't excited bbq not that kind of trany fluid lol in a gm car

[fastford]

American Racer has tried to take Hoosier to court, they lost. I agree though, there was plenty of guys who liked the AR's better, but if you aren't allowed to run them then you're SOL. Should most certainly let them back in though.

and here is the answer to all the tire problems, i have seen ARs strait off the tailor out perform the best treated hoosier out there, if all the sanctioning bodies would just switch to ARs we would all be healthier , according to W2 , and faster.....problem solved....

[cutman]

If the prep is coming off the tire into the racing surface it seems like an untreated tire could pick it up and could then be tested as treated also.

Just another excuse used by the cheats.

[Barbecueboy]

Apparently it's not just an excuse........sounds like somebody is rethinking this thing a little bit.

Stay tuned I guess?

[drano]

Just another excuse used by the cheats.

No really it's called common sense.

[Barbecueboy]

So you are saying that you believe the dust created by untreated tires is equally unhealthy compared to dust created by treated tires? I don't think data is needed to say obviously the more chemicals added to the equation the more dangerous it becomes. Obviously neither is good for us, but I do hope to avoid dying as a result of dust inhaled at the races for as long as possible. That aside there should at least be some concern for drivers and crew members who would have to work with this stuff on a regular basis.

What is driving this sudden desire to change decades old tire rules?

Is it because your favorite driver may have been caught? I don't get it. These have been the rules pretty much forever and now that a few high profile drivers have been slapped with a penalty (which could still be overturned) everyone thinks the rules need changed? I would at the very least ask the drivers how they would feel about such a change. I see Fastrak did that and I didn't see a single driver say they wanted to be able to use tire prep.

Thanks,
Jeff.

I'm not saying anything of the sort........what I'm saying is that the argument that rubber particles breathed in at a race track are bad for you no matter what is added to them by the prep and shouldn't really be used as the argument against using f prep.

There may be great reasons for not using it, but that one is weak at best.

Be like saying smoking filtered menthol is healthier than smoking non filtered menthol......like the tire dust argument,it's just stupid to even say or imply as a way of making a point on good health.

[Barbecueboy]

No really it's called common sense.

Some should be tested for that ........test would not be inconclusive.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

if the manufacturs give a warning shouldn't heed to it for example would put ford trany fluid don't excited bbq not that kind of trany fluid lol in a gm carKinda like St. Louis needs watch your step every ten feet of sidewalk.;)

[chupp n bloomer fan]

We think similarly on your last paragraph.......had they gotten bloomer or had they gotten Jimmy or just those two I could look back at history and say yeah, maybe so.( but still not be 100% convinced)

But to get them two , and the other three just doesn't pass the sniff test( pun intended )

The whole thing is a farce.........and only destined to get uglier the longer the bad process is in place.

I've said it before.........somebody with some wherewithal and backing is going to hurt somebody's feelings and wallet over something like this...........and that's when it will change.Oh yeah. Money and better lab work.

[plunks7]

If these series have that much money to send tests or multiple testing away. Why don't each series have a traveling tire testing lab with them? Find out that night!!! Or test the tires before they hit the track and Mark them in this traveling lab.

[Barbecueboy]

If these series have that much money to send tests or multiple testing away. Why don't each series have a traveling tire testing lab with them? Find out that night!!! Or test the tires before they hit the track and Mark them in this traveling lab.

Stop it......just stop it.

If they did that then we would know who won the night of the race ......and spoil the surprise two weeks later.

Nah, I like the current way better,no need to change a thing.