Overturned!!! ---ish

[Necrosis]

No idea as to the accuracy of this statement, but it was stated that further testing protocols are necessary, and upholding the suspensions on shaky grounds would give solid grounds for legal action. Currently, the delay is because UMP will be chastised on penalties regarding recent (think Milliken) tire infractions, and they don't have a clear path in which to proceed that doesn't involve having all faith lost in their process. This could all be BS, just stating what I heard.

[Barbecueboy]

Don't hate the player.........

[GRT24]

Talked to someone about half an hour ago that has a little inside and everything he has ever told me is pretty much spot on. He said it will be overturned they just haven't done it yet or figured out how they should go about it without taking reticule and looking like they have dropped the ball by trying to look the part and take action. Also was told the lab had to be certified in the state of Ohio and they weren't. Not sure if that does matter or not maybe some one has more insight on that.

[Barbecueboy]

Interesting.......I'm anxious to hear what the ( guilty, they're all cheaters,no way the process is flawed,conspiracy,how did all the others pass ?) 4 m henchmen have to say about burning them all at the stake.

Ought to be very creative , to say the least.........but wha wha happen was.

God news is, it's been proven that the protein in egg is good for facial wrinkles when applied liberally.

[waaac77]

Interesting.......I'm anxious to hear what the ( guilty, they're all cheaters,no way the process is flawed,conspiracy,how did all the others pass ?) 4 m henchmen have to say about burning them all at the stake.

Ought to be very creative , to say the least.........but wha wha happen was.

God news is, it's been proven that the protein in egg is good for facial wrinkles when applied liberally.

Just because the courts didn't find them guilty don't mean jack. i.e. OJ Simpson. They still cheated that is fact

[blncfn57]

Interesting.......I'm anxious to hear what the ( guilty, they're all cheaters,no way the process is flawed,conspiracy,how did all the others pass ?) 4 m henchmen have to say about burning them all at the stake.

Ought to be very creative , to say the least.........but wha wha happen was.

God news is, it's been proven that the protein in egg is good for facial wrinkles when applied liberally.

Where is the story? I'm not hearing anything besides what's posted here. And you're right, racers would never cheat. My bad

[Josh Bayko]

Interesting.......I'm anxious to hear what the ( guilty, they're all cheaters,no way the process is flawed,conspiracy,how did all the others pass ?) 4 m henchmen have to say about burning them all at the stake.

Ought to be very creative , to say the least.........but wha wha happen was.

God news is, it's been proven that the protein in egg is good for facial wrinkles when applied liberally.

If it gets overturned on a technicality, it doesn't exonerate them from guilt. Ryan Braun knows all about that.

[KAOS]

#LucasLivesMatter

[blncfn57]

If it gets overturned on a technicality, it doesn't exonerate them from guilt. Ryan Braun knows all about that.

Exactly! BUT Johnny barbecueboy Cochran will sure think so.

[Barbecueboy]

Just because the courts didn't find them guilty don't mean jack. i.e. OJ Simpson. They still cheated that is fact

Facts are quantifiable certainties.........something this and many other rulings didn't have.

Thus it being overturned ........face it bud,y'all all screwed the pooch on this deal and were wrong.

You can bet that if ump could hang this on them with any certainty they would to avoid the embarrassment........but they can't so they won't.

Take the lumps and move along.

[Barbecueboy]

Where is the story? I'm not hearing anything besides what's posted here. And you're right, racers would never cheat. My bad

Care to find a post anywhere at anytime that I said racers would never cheat????

Anywhere.

I may be right about a lot of things , but that isn't one of them..........it's never been uttered.

And just because you aren't hearing anything doesn't mean it isn't happening.....just means that you don't have your ear to the ground on DLM racing as you thought you did.

[Barbecueboy]

If it gets overturned on a technicality, it doesn't exonerate them from guilt. Ryan Braun knows all about that.

I wouldn't exactly call changing the protocol and trying to get it right a technicality....and for what it's worth it doesn't determine their guilt either.

Everybody knows there is a problem on both sides......guys cheating tires and the series not having a great way to consistently prove it.

You know better than what your implying.

[bullring]

Until I see a World of Outlaws regular caught instead of only the guys that beat them, I'll still be skeptical.

[Barbecueboy]

Exactly! BUT Johnny barbecueboy Cochran will sure think so.

So you all but put Sam in the will when they dqd them and touted their steadfast professionism and collection process along the way and now you are doubting your guys for doing the right thing and admitting the testing process needs better protocol?

You gals crack me up......

[Josh Bayko]

I wouldn't exactly call changing the protocol and trying to get it right a technicality....and for what it's worth it doesn't determine their guilt either.

Everybody knows there is a problem on both sides......guys cheating tires and the series not having a great way to consistently prove it.

You know better than what your implying.

If it's a procedural thing that gets them off (which has been implied), it has nothing to do with the results of the tests. And to much of the public eye, the guys involved will still be guilty. It's what happened to Ryan Braun.

You seem to be the only one so very passionate about this whole deal, and I think I've figured out why. No matter that happens with Eldora Tiregate, it's not going to change things for Willie Miliken. As soon as he admitted to Simple Green, he screwed himself.

[manwplan]

If it's a procedural thing that gets them off (which has been implied), it has nothing to do with the results of the tests. And to much of the public eye, the guys involved will still be guilty. It's what happened to Ryan Braun.

You seem to be the only one so very passionate about this whole deal, and I think I've figured out why. No matter that happens with Eldora Tiregate, it's not going to change things for Willie Miliken. As soon as he admitted to Simple Green, he screwed himself.

Imagine if JD or any other Longdong would have extremely benefited from tire get like being had a win. BBQ's head would explode

[Racer2010]

What are they going to do about all the other people that are now labeled cheaters and were dq'ed? If they overturn this then they set a precedent.

[waaac77]

Have any of the WoO Sprint guys ever been caught doping tires? I would think it's prevelant there as well but not sure if anyone would know being this is a LM board

[b1eagle]

that is what I think

[Josh Bayko]

Have any of the WoO Sprint guys ever been caught doping tires? I would think it's prevelant there as well but not sure if anyone would know being this is a LM board

Not that I've ever known, but a couple modified guys in the northeast got popped in the last couple years.

[W2Racing09]

Not Overturned!!! - ish

http://www.onedirt.com/news/appeal-panel-upholds-dirt-late-model-dream-penalties/

[huskerdirt]

All penalties have been upheld.

http://www.stlracing.com/2016/06/29/appeals-panel-upholds-dirt-late-model-dream-penalties/

[GRT24]

That's a surprise. I guess it's ok to be wrong every once in awhile on here

[blncfn57]

Facts are quantifiable certainties.........something this and many other rulings didn't have.

Thus it being overturned ........face it bud,y'all all screwed the pooch on this deal and were wrong.

You can bet that if ump could hang this on them with any certainty they would to avoid the embarrassment........but they can't so they won't.

Take the lumps and move along.

Now... are you prepared to take your lumps as I said I would do? Who screwed the pooch? I think it's the tire dopers and the fans that refused to believe their driver would do anything wrong.....

[D. Tidrow]

Imagine if JD or any other Longdong would have extremely benefited from tire get like being had a win. BBQ's head would explodeI guess we know who the liberal guy is?

[D. Tidrow]

Not Overturned!!! - ishhttp://www.onedirt.com/news/appeal-panel-upholds-dirt-late-model-dream-penalties/Did anybody really think it would be overturned? Hell no because the great establishment would look bad.

[davis2902]

They upheld the DQ's so the people who should really be pissed are those that raced in the Firecracker and SN races this past weekend. I say strip all racers involved of monies won while appeal was going on too!

[J20in1st]

Your information is 100% wrong. All penalties upheld

[blncfn57]

Did anybody really think it would be overturned? Hell no because the great establishment would look bad.

You can bet the establishment had their back side covered before announcing the penalties, it's just that some 4m lawyers refused to believe it.

[castone]

No surprise to anyone!

[Snake X3]

Exactly! BUT Johnny barbecueboy Cochran will sure think so.

If the test is sh1t, you must acquit. :D

[old fan]

Stlracing has the true story

[Finnfan]

Does this actually mean Barbecueboy is wrong...or should we just wait for his spin as to why he's right and EVERYBODY else is wrong?

[blncfn57]

If the test is sh1t, you must acquit. :D

because the sanctioning body would knowingly try to pull all this off with shaky evidence.

The question now is, will Lucas finally start taking this all seriously or will they continue making rules to keep one guy from winning while ignoring the tires?

[blncfn57]

Does this actually mean Barbecueboy is wrong...or should we just wait for his spin as to why he's right and EVERYBODY else is wrong?

I'm sure he's not wrong. The building full of chemists dropped the ball. racers do not cheat.

[non driving fool]

W O W !!!! Didn't take long for BBQ to get scarce did it ?

[D. Tidrow]

You can bet the establishment had their back side covered before announcing the penalties, it's just that some 4m lawyers refused to believe it.I don't think anybody on 4m has ever past the bar. I still believe the testing process is not the greatest. I will say, did you really believe any other outcome?

[D. Tidrow]

Does this actually mean Barbecueboy is wrong...or should we just wait for his spin as to why he's right and EVERYBODY else is wrong?There really isn't no spin, I expected this just like bbq boy probably did. You can't fight the system. I will not put words in his mouth.

[D. Tidrow]

W O W !!!! Didn't take lost for BBQ to get scarce did it ?I'm sure he has a business to run.

[Finnfan]

Well the good news for BBQ is he won't have to come up with that obnoxious dance he promised when it was overturned...so there's that.

[blncfn57]

I don't think anybody on 4m has ever past the bar. I still believe the testing process is not the greatest. I will say, did you really believe any other outcome?

perhaps the testing process could and will be conducted differently so there can be no question if it were to happen again, but each competitor entered the event knowing how the process worked and by entering they agreed to the terms. I did not believe there would be any other outcome because I believe the tests were prolly double or triple checked to make sure of the results before they acted.

There is one really smart car owner that keeps pushing WRG to test tires, that person is neck deep in racing and knows what is going on with the teams. It's funny tho, because some point the finger at him as being a cheater, when in fact he is one of the loudest voices against it and wants the testing done.

[D. Tidrow]

perhaps the testing process could and will be conducted differently so there can be no question if it were to happen again, but each competitor entered the event knowing how the process worked and by entering they agreed to the terms. I did not believe there would be any other outcome because I believe the tests were prolly double or triple checked to make sure of the results before they acted. There is one really smart car owner that keeps pushing WRG to test tires, that person is neck deep in racing and knows what is going on with the teams. It's funny tho, because some point the finger at him as being a cheater, when in fact he is one of the loudest voices against it and wants the testing done.I agree with you on many things. The thing is many competitors knew when and what tires were going to be tested. The question is why would they still cheat tires. Either they were clean or they thought the juice they were using was undetectable. I like to believe my certain drivers. After all I am a fan, just like you.

[dirtnut]

the statement I got said they would be suspended and would have to pay fines!!

[Barbecueboy]

If it's a procedural thing that gets them off (which has been implied), it has nothing to do with the results of the tests. And to much of the public eye, the guys involved will still be guilty. It's what happened to Ryan Braun.

You seem to be the only one so very passionate about this whole deal, and I think I've figured out why. No matter that happens with Eldora Tiregate, it's not going to change things for Willie Miliken. As soon as he admitted to Simple Green, he screwed himself.

Has zero to do with Willie milliken........has everything to do with getting it right.

[D. Tidrow]

They upheld the DQ's so the people who should really be pissed are those that raced in the Firecracker and SN races this past weekend. I say strip all racers involved of monies won while appeal was going on too!I say no, these guys race for a living. Just like you mow lawns for a living. Maybe you have a fast mower and charge by the hour. IF they did cheat a tire they know they are under a microscope.

[W2Racing09]

I agree with you on many things. The thing is many competitors knew when and what tires were going to be tested. The question is why would they still cheat tires. Either they were clean or they thought the juice they were using was undetectable. I like to believe my certain drivers. After all I am a fan, just like you.

I am a fan as well, in fact I am a big fan of Gregg Satterlee, and will continue to be. I think just about every driver out there is doing something that they know could result in a DQ if they were to be caught. A lot think whatever they do won't be caught (and they are probably right). It sucks that it happened, but I think it is a good thing for the sport that they are trying to keep these guys honest. I'm worried about what this says about WoO and LOLMDS? Are they teching? All of these guys have run with one series at least and both in most cases yet were not caught until they raced at a regular old UMP race? I would be surprised if WoO wanted this decision overturned, I'm sure tracks like Cedar Lake, Fairbury, etc. would much prefer big draw drivers like Sheppard, Bloomquist and Owens to be in attendance.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[th3Swami]

There's still a final appeal to go with the director.

[Josh Bayko]

Has zero to do with Willie milliken........has everything to do with getting it right.

Bullsh*t. And you know it.

[Barbecueboy]

Imagine if JD or any other Longdong would have extremely benefited from tire get like being had a win. BBQ's head would explode

Would have just lol' d and qued up the great randy Travis song" I told you so"

Kinda like now.

The process will change,goal attained.

Anybody wonder why they aren't testing at the summer nationals even though they were asked to test by some drivers?????

A: changes are a coming.

[D. Tidrow]

I am a fan as well, in fact I am a big fan of Gregg Satterlee, and will continue to be. I think just about every driver out there is doing something that they know could result in a DQ if they were to be caught. A lot think whatever they do won't be caught (and they are probably right). It sucks that it happened, but I think it is a good thing for the sport that they are trying to keep these guys honest. I'm worried about what this says about WoO and LOLMDS? Are they teching? All of these guys have run with one series at least and both in most cases yet were not caught until they raced at a regular old UMP race? I would be surprised if WoO wanted this decision overturned, I'm sure tracks like Cedar Lake, Fairbury, etc. would much prefer big draw drivers like Sheppard, Bloomquist and Owens to be in attendance.Thanks,Jeff.I have too agree

[Barbecueboy]

Now... are you prepared to take your lumps as I said I would do? Who screwed the pooch? I think it's the tire dopers and the fans that refused to believe their driver would do anything wrong.....

Bring them on.........

[th3Swami]

The double standard's are so priceless haha so whats it gonna be gregg "the its ok everyone else does it" satterlee or gregg "the dishonest truth" satterlee?

[Barbecueboy]

W O W !!!! Didn't take lost for BBQ to get scarce did it ?

He works for a living......you should try it.

And nope, I own everything I've stated.........and still do.

[Barbecueboy]

Bullsh*t. And you know it.

The guy has come along way since the modified days, but I haven't forgotten how rough he drove us........so I respect Willie and how far he has come, but I'm far from an avid fan.

So no Josh, it's not BS.......at all.

[D. Tidrow]

The double standard's are so priceless haha so whats it gonna be gregg "the its ok everyone else does it" satterlee or gregg "the dishonest truth" satterlee?Some of you guys remind me of broken wing liberals.

[Pennsboro23]

I know one driver doesn't make or break a race, but it's going to be different not seeing Owens or Bloomer at Eldora for the worlds biggest dirt race.

[Cardirt0]

2 Menny if and buts to this Tire thing...Tire on car, car on ground ,ground full of all kinds of things spilled on it, Gets on tire... now you cheated....Tell the Tire makers too make a Tire that goes for 100 laps.. Then they dont have too Cheat....
Sell them a tire for the race and they dont get it till 10 min be for race starts.. Now its good too go....

[W2Racing09]

2 Menny if and buts to this Tire thing...Tire on car, car on ground ,ground full of all kinds of things spilled on it, Gets on tire... now you cheated....Tell the Tire makers too make a Tire that goes for 100 laps.. Then they dont have too Cheat....
Sell them a tire for the race and they dont get it till 10 min be for race starts.. Now its good too go....

The top 3 made the entire race on unprepped tires so I would say the tire certainly isn't the issue here.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[D. Tidrow]

The top 3 made the entire race on unprepped tires so I would say the tire certainly isn't the issue here.Thanks,Jeff.I will say again, this is not a democracy. This is one tire company protecting their lifeblood. What else would they say? Sam diggers and his mr Smithers persona.

[Clayton_Wetter]

#LucasLivesMatter

Oh dear, another radical movement!!

[chupp n bloomer fan]

They upheld the DQ's so the people who should really be pissed are those that raced in the Firecracker and SN races this past weekend. I say strip all racers involved of monies won while appeal was going on too!If the tires they ran then pass, it does not matter. It's a moot point.

[huskerdirt]

Outside of the opening post, which was wildly inaccurate.

Where the heck are people getting that process will be changed?? Is it because some Internet forum guy said so?

Just wondering.

[Barbecueboy]

The top 3 made the entire race on unprepped tires so I would say the tire certainly isn't the issue here.

Thanks,
Jeff.

Were the top three that ran the entire race even checked in the prelims????

Kind of pointless to say what you did if you aren't sure .

[pkracer]

What some people seem to forget is that 27 samples passed and 5 didn't. The 5 got caught, plain and simple. People need to get over it and realize people try to cheat the system all the time. This time they got caught. How many times have they not????

[D. Tidrow]

Outside of the opening post, which was wildly inaccurate.Where the heck are people getting that process will be changed?? Is it because some Internet forum guy said so? Just wondering.Why would it be changed? The people with the most money said so. Do you really think that WRG would be wrong? They are paying the bills, now and in the future. I'm sure it's a very lucrative contract with WRG. If it was the test even was borderline, do you think they would say so. Big business runs the world. The lab is a business.

[D. Tidrow]

What some people seem to forget is that 27 samples passed and 5 didn't. The 5 got caught, plain and simple. People need to get over it and realize people try to cheat the system all the time. This time they got caught. How many times have they not????The problem is I know people caught up in this, and they DID NOT cheat their tires!

[huskerdirt]

Why would it be changed? The people with the most money said so. Do you really think that WRG would be wrong? They are paying the bills, now and in the future. I'm sure it's a very lucrative contract with WRG. If it was the test even was borderline, do you think they would say so. Big business runs the world. The lab is a business.

I never questioned it was wrong to become with or that it should even be changed.

I just asked why people are just assuming the process is gonna be overhauled. I don't see how and why that would be the case.

[D. Tidrow]

I never questioned it was wrong to become with or that it should even be changed.I just asked why people are just assuming the process is gonna be overhauled. I don't see how and why that would be the case.I'm not calling you out, but I just posted. I know people caught up in this and they DID NOT cheat their tires. That's why I am so adiment about this!

[huskerdirt]

I'm not calling you out, but I just posted. I know people caught up in this and they DID NOT cheat their tires. That's why I am so adiment about this!

Fair enough..... As you were.

[D. Tidrow]

I'm not calling you out, but I just posted. I know people caught up in this and they DID NOT cheat their tires. That's why I am so adiment about this!I can't speak for Bloomquist or Owens but I know a couple others DID NOT cheat their tires.

[Pennsboro23]

I can't speak for Bloomquist or Owens but I know a couple others DID NOT cheat their tires.

How can you know that for a fact? Unless you're around them literally 24/7, that includes driver and crew.

[D. Tidrow]

How can you know that for a fact? Unless you're around them literally 24/7, that includes driver and crew.I know the teams inside and out, that's why.

[D. Tidrow]

I know the teams inside and out, that's why.Some are family

[Pennsboro23]

I know the teams inside and out, that's why.

I don't care how well you think you know them. People (family, friends, wives, husbands, racers, etc...) do things all the time that make you question whether you really know them or not.

I'm not saying they did or didn't but nobody knows for sure except for the drivers/car owners/crew chiefs. The people who are around the operation literally 24/7.

[formercrewguy]

They were cheating plain and simple. If the test is flawed, why did the 30 or so others pass?

Suspensions start today!

[racingfool32]

I'd say the panel said the "LOSERS" cheated!!

[Barbecueboy]

They were cheating plain and simple. If the test is flawed, why did the 30 or so others pass?

Suspensions start today!

They may have all cheated, but it's far from plain and simple...........

[tb1545]

If i was a team, and especially at the regional level where the rules guys are less educated than say lucas or WoO officials, I would just want to know what the phrase "does not meet the benchmark" means. Any of these tire tests that have posted have never labeled exactly what that means. How far of a tolerance is given before a tire "does not meet the benchmark"? Also is there chemicals that are allowed or not. We're racers and stuff goes flying all over the place oils, fuel, brake clean, etc. if we need to keep tires in a safe room while not out on the track for fear of false contamination, I'd want to know. We see everyone wrapping tires to keep contamination out and oils in, how old can a tire be and still "meet the benchmark"? Not trying to defend the cheaters by any means, but the mystery on how this is teched leaves too much room for drama about the decision. deck height being 1/2" too tall is a finite measurement that we can all comprehend. a tire containing 200parts per million too much arsenic is something we can comprehend. "does not meet benchmark" doesnt quantify anything and leaves everyone asking who, what, why, how?

Also, did anyone see after that tire test was overturned for i think ?SAS? a few years ago when the guy appealed and sent a sample to that ohio lab and came back clean, the sanctioning body immediately changed the rules to not allow appeals. Instead of being more transparent they closed it up even more. This isnt deep dark secrets, let the information out. Say what chemicals were found or removed. otherwise the cheater is going to keep saying it was just the soap from the carwash that busted me.

[D. Tidrow]

I don't care how well you think you know them. People (family, friends, wives, husbands, racers, etc...) do things all the time that make you question whether you really know them or not.I'm not saying they did or didn't but nobody knows for sure except for the drivers/car owners/crew chiefs. The people who are around the operation literally 24/7.Like I said family, I was there. I will say again. Did not cheat

[formercrewguy]

Like I said family, I was there. I will say again. Did not cheat

Then YOU should have been in that appeals room providing "expert" and "personal knowlege" of the situation.

Bottom line all the samples tested were done exactly the same way. BTW, those who were busted, have been caught before.......something to consider.

[D. Tidrow]

Then YOU should have been in that appeals room providing "expert" and "personal knowlege" of the situation.Bottom line all the samples tested were done exactly the same way. BTW, those who were busted, have been caught before.......something to consider.So you are saying Brandon Shepard, satterlee and Thornton have been caught before? I sure don't remember that?

[D. Tidrow]

They may have all cheated, but it's far from plain and simple...........They didn't!

[NormP]

Just FYI and not directed at anyone in this thread, just something I've noticed in a couple others---

When talking about the samples it's not "chain of command." Chain of command is the leadership structure in a military or paramilitary organization.

The term some folks are looking for is "chain of custody." In other words, who in the pipeline from the hauler to the lab has had any contact at all with the samples? Who has had it in their "custody?"

In a criminal investigation, chain of custody involves documenting everyone by name, time, and date who has had any contact with the evidence at all, even if it is just delivering it from one place to another after it is sealed. A similar concept should be applied to tire testing if it isn't already.

So in a nutshell if you want to be 100% accurate, call it chain of custody, not chain of command.




Source: I've dealt with both terms personally on an almost daily basis in my profession for over 20 years.

[D. Tidrow]

Just FYI and not directed at anyone in this thread, just something I've noticed in a couple others---When talking about the samples it's not "chain of command." Chain of command is the leadership structure in a military or paramilitary organization.The term some folks are looking for is "chain of custody." In other words, who in the pipeline from the hauler to the lab has had any contact at all with the samples? Who has had it in their "custody?"In a criminal investigation, chain of custody involves documenting everyone by name, time, and date who has had any contact with the evidence at all, even if it is just delivering it from one place to another after it is sealed. A similar concept should be applied to tire testing if it isn't already. So in a nutshell if you want to be 100% accurate, call it chain of custody, not chain of command.Source: I've dealt with both terms personally on an almost daily basis in my profession for over 20 years.Thank you norm, the only chain in command now is mr. Smithers aka Sam diggers.

[pkracer]

They said all 32 samples were taken the same way. 27 passed and 5 failed. Why is that so hard to believe? They tried to take advantage of the system and got caught, end of story.

[Racer2010]

Just saying, anyone who goes to a WoW race and says it's simple green is probably not telling the whole truth. Who in their right mind would go against the best in the business with used tires? That doesn't make sense. Why would they need to use simple green on a brand new Tire? Once again, doesn't make sense. I am against cheating up tires but I understand why people do it. This needs to be fix not a debate that takes people's lives over......... lol.

[plunks7]

I don't call anything with tires cheating. I just call it, Teams are missing the boat!!!!

[D. Tidrow]

They said all 32 samples were taken the same way. 27 passed and 5 failed. Why is that so hard to believe? They tried to take advantage of the system and got caught, end of story.It's not the end of the story, imagine if you know for a fact the tires were not cheated

[Barbecueboy]

So you are saying Brandon Shepard, satterlee and Thornton have been caught before? I sure don't remember that?

There is a good reason that you don't remember that d tid...........

[D. Tidrow]

Just saying, anyone who goes to a WoW race and says it's simple green is probably not telling the whole truth. Who in their right mind would go against the best in the business with used tires? That doesn't make sense. Why would they need to use simple green on a brand new Tire? Once again, doesn't make sense. I am against cheating up tires but I understand why people do it. This needs to be fix not a debate that takes people's lives over......... lol.Your almost there

[pkracer]

Kind of of like NASCAR , they are playing by WRG rules in their sandbox. Nothing will change with this ruling wait and see.

[Racer2010]

Your almost thereToo bad I don't know where I'm going :(. Lol Care to explain? Pm of you have to lol

[Barbecueboy]

It's not the end of the story, imagine if you know for a fact the tires were not cheated

To a few on here that would mean your liar,don't know what your talking about and the person you know personally is still a cheater.......cut and dry.

Ask em.

[Barbecueboy]

Kind of of like NASCAR , they are playing by WRG rules in their sandbox. Nothing will change with this ruling wait and see.

Nope.......doubtful this ruling was ever going to change anyway despite the earlier chatter.

What will change are the procedural aspects of it from beginning to end.....be a lot more inspection of the inspectors so to speak.

[pkracer]

Who is to say that the people they are buying the tires off of are not doping them up for them? That way the teams technically not lying....Food for thought

[D. Tidrow]

To a few on here that would mean your liar,don't know what your talking about and the person you know personally is still a cheater.......cut and dry.Ask em.Like MSM, if they said it. It must be true. Take the human element out of it. Sad but true.

[Racer2010]

Who is to say that the people they are buying the tires off of are not doping them up for them? That way the teams technically not lying....Food for thoughtI would agree but why wouldn't they send in "benchmarks" that match the tire?

[D. Tidrow]

Who is to say that the people they are buying the tires off of are not doping them up for them? That way the teams technically not lying....Food for thoughtYou might be on to something

[Highside Hustler25]

They got caught
They got penalized
They appealed
They lost again
Story over

What's so hard to understand?

The initial post comprised of He said/She said was nothing but 4m blubbering although their are some that will never let it go.

[huskerdirt]

They got caught
They got penalized
They appealed
They lost again
Story over

What's so hard to understand?

The initial post comprised of He said/She said was nothing but 4m blubbering although their are some that will never let it go.

Completely agree.

The percentage of guys getting caught versus actual races run is so small it wouldn't even register on a chart. Only because it was at Eldora are people losing there sh!t and questioning the process.

[formercrewguy]

They got caught
They got penalized
They appealed
They lost again
Story over

What's so hard to understand?

The initial post comprised of He said/She said was nothing but 4m blubbering although their are some that will never let it go.

Well, not quite over.....they can appeal one last time.lol

[formercrewguy]

After reading the official wording from WRG re:the appeal, it seems in addition to the fines, 3 mo. suspension, they must also pay the lab. This tells me the samples were RETESTED per driver's appeal. The original testing costs teams nothing.

[Highside Hustler25]

Well, not quite over.....they can appeal one last time.lol

Well, I guess. If they want to be serving their suspension thru Oct. or Nov. Then they can miss the World finals as well.

[plunks7]

They got caught
They got penalized
They appealed
They lost again
Story over

What's so hard to understand?

The initial post comprised of He said/She said was nothing but 4m blubbering although their are some that will never let it go.

Did they loose again? Or is it a extension of unemployment benefits?

[Highside Hustler25]

Did they loose again? Or is it a extension of unemployment benefits?

lol..................

[Pansdloc]

https://www.change.org/p/world-racing-group-inc-overturn-suspensions-from-dream-100-bloomquist-owens-sheppard-satterlee-and-thorton?recruiter=564215480&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive

[BirkyTime15B]

That's too funny!

[Jet Jockey]

Without reading every post in this thread, I think there are finally people realizing that there are, shall I say, juicers out there that are providing tires to teams. This gives guys cover that they did nothing and dont know how their tires were illegal. I believe Brandon, and Satterlee. I think they honestly did not know. Their crew chiefs not so much. These juicers that are providing tires need to be ferreted out of the sport.

[dirtdobber45]

YYYYYYAAAAA its over now yall can find something else to hen peck over lol. They all cheat one way or another tires spoilers body etc SO WHAT? I still dont understand the big deal if your not going to uphold the whole rule book why have one? Yea both my drivers got caught IT AINT THE FIRST TIME! Just trying to get an edge and it bit em. Whoopie

[IZZOJR16]

Exactly! BUT Johnny barbecueboy Cochran will sure think so. ha, made me laugh to myself... some funny sh5t

[IZZOJR16]

They upheld the DQ's so the people who should really be pissed are those that raced in the Firecracker and SN races this past weekend. I say strip all racers involved of monies won while appeal was going on too! indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Barbecueboy]

ha, made me laugh to myself... some funny sh5t

You should try at yourself........

[Umpdirt1]

talked to someone about half an hour ago that has a little inside and everything he has ever told me is pretty much spot on. He said it will be overturned they just haven't done it yet or figured out how they should go about it without taking reticule and looking like they have dropped the ball by trying to look the part and take action. Also was told the lab had to be certified in the state of ohio and they weren't. Not sure if that does matter or not maybe some one has more insight on that.so much for ur f n source

[pickersparadise]

If they overturn the suspensions are they going to back up and pay Milliken??? I think they should!!!!! if its overturned everyone will be doping there tires!!!! I am going to start pissing on mine!!!!!!!

[Finnfan]

Here's an outlandish thought... Does anyone believe that the staff at the lab knows way, way, way more about how to test tires than anyone on this forum (except BBQ of course)? My guess would be after the tires "didn't meet the benchmark" they were retested, possibly multiple times because they wanted to insure it wasn't a false positive. Knowing the ramifications, legal, financial and otherwise I believe one must lend some credence to the testing lab and their staff.

I used to be an ardent defender of Lance Armstrong too, because HE SAID HE DIDN'T CHEAT. That didn't turn out so well either.

[drano]

Go to Chris Ferguson facebook he has a copy of test results from the same lab posted.

[th3Swami]

gregg "the clinton truth" satterlee

[Barbecueboy]

Here's an outlandish thought... Does anyone believe that the staff at the lab knows way, way, way more about how to test tires than anyone on this forum (except BBQ of course)? My guess would be after the tires "didn't meet the benchmark" they were retested, possibly multiple times because they wanted to insure it wasn't a false positive. Knowing the ramifications, legal, financial and otherwise I believe one must lend some credence to the testing lab and their staff.

I used to be an ardent defender of Lance Armstrong too, because HE SAID HE DIDN'T CHEAT. That didn't turn out so well either.

Did you say " your guess would be???"

BINGO.........you shouldn't have to guess, you should know 100%.

And jab all you want at BBQ, but if you do your own research ( like some do) you will find that testing tires is not what they do full time and that it is a small percentage of their business( but getting bigger)

I question all of it from when it's made to when it's run......not just the actual analysis.

[fastford]

Without reading every post in this thread, I think there are finally people realizing that there are, shall I say, juicers out there that are providing tires to teams. This gives guys cover that they did nothing and dont know how their tires were illegal. I believe Brandon, and Satterlee. I think they honestly did not know. Their crew chiefs not so much. These juicers that are providing tires need to be ferreted out of the sport.

i do not believe for one minute they didnt know , just like i believe my man owens did know, but i will say this, if some one on my team, ie: crew, sponsor, or even owner, did something like this with out telling me, we would be done!!!!!!!!!! period

[W2Racing09]

https://www.change.org/p/world-racing-group-inc-overturn-suspensions-from-dream-100-bloomquist-owens-sheppard-satterlee-and-thorton?recruiter=564215480&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=share_email_responsive

3 whole signatures and this has been up for several hours at least. Congrats, maybe if you make it to 100 signatures WRG will take the time to write you an email saying No rather than just deleting the petition email all together.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Highside Hustler25]

3 whole signatures and this has been up for several hours at least. Congrats, maybe if you make it to 100 signatures WRG will take the time to write you an email saying No rather than just deleting the petition email all together.

Thanks,
Jeff.

they could get 1 million signatures Jeff. It will change nothing.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!If them tires come back clean it means nothing. Done on a race to race basis. Trust me, they'll Indeed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! be tested.

[clayman2]

so I guess lucas s oilers use a different lab ?

[waaac77]

It's WRG and if you dont like the rules dont run their races. It's their business and they run it how they choose. I do agree they should make the results public but what's with the petition??? They failed a lab test twice, tires are doped up. I have heard no solid evidence that the lab tests are flaud that just all seems to be speculation based on the drivers all saying they didn't dope.

If you ask me it seems WRG is doing a fine job and they seem to have evidence that backs up their testing, just wish we could see that evidence.

[heinen81]

It's WRG and if you dont like the rules dont run their races. It's their business and they run it how they choose. I do agree they should make the results public but what's with the petition??? They failed a lab test twice, tires are doped up. I have heard no solid evidence that the lab tests are flaud that just all seems to be speculation based on the drivers all saying they didn't dope.

If you ask me it seems WRG is doing a fine job and they seem to have evidence that backs up their testing, just wish we could see that evidence.

I cant even take your comment seriously after you spelled "flawed", flaud.

[Highside Hustler25]

I cant even take your comment seriously after you spelled "flawed", flaud.

hey, if spell check doesn't catch it, it's legal.


You must skip over Litey's posts.

[waaac77]

I cant even take your comment seriously after you spelled "flawed", flaud.

Then don't, grammar police

[Barbecueboy]

It's WRG and if you dont like the rules dont run their races. It's their business and they run it how they choose. I do agree they should make the results public but what's with the petition??? They failed a lab test twice, tires are doped up. I have heard no solid evidence that the lab tests are flaud that just all seems to be speculation based on the drivers all saying they didn't dope.

If you ask me it seems WRG is doing a fine job and they seem to have evidence that backs up their testing, just wish we could see that evidence.
So you know they tested the tires twice?

If they did,do you think they used they same possibly tainted samples that were collected in the pits??????

If they re tested those same samples, then what would you expect the outcome to be??

So for now, theyre all cheaters just like all the rest of the teams ............I'm good with it🤘

[slmcrewchief99]

BBq, you lost me with that last post. Tainted samples???? The only thing Tainted were the illegal tires that the samples came from as best I can tell. Does everyone think they had 32 samples, and UMP take those 5 when nobody was around, and soak them down with something illegal. We have been checked many times. They have always taken more than 1 sample. All 32 samples came from 3 different nights. Why is it so unbelievable that it was only from Friday? I'm not saying they may need to better the process but it's been working fine for what few years they have been testing tires.

[blncfn57]

BBq, you lost me with that last post. Tainted samples???? The only thing Tainted were the illegal tires that the samples came from as best I can tell. Does everyone think they had 32 samples, and UMP take those 5 when nobody was around, and soak them down with something illegal. We have been checked many times. They have always taken more than 1 sample. All 32 samples came from 3 different nights. Why is it so unbelievable that it was only from Friday? I'm not saying they may need to better the process but it's been working fine for what few years they have been testing tires.

Thank You! A perspective from someone directly involved in the sport and knows the process. BBQ will ignore this post too because it doesn't jive with his opinion.

[Barbecueboy]

BBq, you lost me with that last post. Tainted samples???? The only thing Tainted were the illegal tires that the samples came from as best I can tell. Does everyone think they had 32 samples, and UMP take those 5 when nobody was around, and soak them down with something illegal. We have been checked many times. They have always taken more than 1 sample. All 32 samples came from 3 different nights. Why is it so unbelievable that it was only from Friday? I'm not saying they may need to better the process but it's been working fine for what few years they have been testing tires.

I didn't say tainted samples.........I said potentially tainted samples and no sense in really beating that horse as to why and how they could have been tainted prior to the teams getting them...........

My point was, if you are going to test the same piece of rubber using the same methods it had better come back with the same result............and with the lack of trust the majority of people have in the systems in place and folks administering the systems is it really hard to believe or out of the question that they didn't even test them twice?



To think that the woo series would purposely dr. The tires is ludicrous ..........that would be a criminal act , and even as much disdain as I have for some of the puppets in that deal, even I wouldn't have thought that or made that allegation.

Here it is in a nutshell for me............if you are going to besmirch somebody and call them out to be cheaters and thieves , then there should be a much more accurate , efficient and transparent way to do it.

[a25rjr]

I didn't say tainted samples.........I said potentially tainted samples and no sense in really beating that horse as to why and how they could have been tainted prior to the teams getting them...........

My point was, if you are going to test the same piece of rubber using the same methods it had better come back with the same result............and with the lack of trust the majority of people have in the systems in place and folks administering the systems is it really hard to believe or out of the question that they didn't even test them twice?



To think that the woo series would purposely dr. The tires is ludicrous ..........that would be a criminal act , and even as much disdain as I have for some of the puppets in that deal, even I wouldn't have thought that or made that allegation.

Here it is in a nutshell for me............if you are going to besmirch somebody and call them out to be cheaters and thieves , then there should be a much more accurate , efficient and transparent way to do it.

I'm with ya on that......One thing that Nascar does best.....they put the cheating parts on a table for all competitors to see. WOO would be wise to post these lab tests at each race, for ALL to see!

[Barbecueboy]

Thank You! A perspective from someone directly involved in the sport and knows the process. BBQ will ignore this post too because it doesn't jive with his opinion.

You clearly don't know me or would realize how silly your post is...........I own every single one of my opinions , don't hide from any of them, and will stand toe to toe with anybody on them if I truly believe.

And fwiw, I know exactly how the process is conducted...........it's why I'm so passionate about the need to make it foolproof.

Think what you want about me personally, zero fuks given...........but you won't find me backing away from anything that comes out of my mouth, ever.

I may have to apologize or eat some crow, but backpeddling and backing away from something I truly believe......nope, won't ever happen.

[Clayton_Wetter]

It's not a federal crime to soak racing tires, as much as some of you would like to form a lynch mob!!!! :)

[dirtdobber45]

I didn't say tainted samples.........I said potentially tainted samples and no sense in really beating that horse as to why and how they could have been tainted prior to the teams getting them...........My point was, if you are going to test the same piece of rubber using the same methods it had better come back with the same result............and with the lack of trust the majority of people have in the systems in place and folks administering the systems is it really hard to believe or out of the question that they didn't even test them twice?To think that the woo series would purposely dr. The tires is ludicrous ..........that would be a criminal act , and even as much disdain as I have for some of the puppets in that deal, even I wouldn't have thought that or made that allegation.Here it is in a nutshell for me............if you are going to besmirch somebody and call them out to be cheaters and thieves , then there should be a much more accurate , efficient and transparent way to do it.
I'm with ya on that......One thing that Nascar does best.....they put the cheating parts on a table for all competitors to see. WOO would be wise to post these lab tests at each race, for ALL to see!Im with yall. Why not confiscate the whole tire until results come back that way if they need to retest they can get another piece from that same tire or send it back when test are complete. And dont we have the right to see the results (not trying to be all legal like) but like the patriot act type act? lol

[dirtdobber45]

It's not a federal crime to soak racing tires, as much as some of you would like to form a lynch mob!!!! :)As many threads that have been started on this subject its worse than watergate

[RocketChassis#1]

No matter what anyone says, Eldora is UMP's/WRG's, (as long as Tony says so). sandbox. You pay the entry, you abide by the rules, no matter how flawed you think they are. Honestly, if you give them too much flak, the could tell you to not ever come back ever, and they have right to.

[plunks7]

No matter what anyone says, Eldora is UMP's/WRG's, (as long as Tony says so). sandbox. You pay the entry, you abide by the rules, no matter how flawed you think they are. Honestly, if you give them too much flak, the could tell you to not ever come back ever, and they have right to.

Go figure a guy with the name RocketChassis#1 would post this. I also seen where rocket chassis is sponsoring a series. Is this fine monies?

[slmcrewchief99]

BBQ, 1st let me apologize as it sounded like I singled you out with my last post. I didn't mean to come across that way and I should have posted it in a better manner. I am sorry.

I am actively working with a race team and do have some insight on this as with some of what I posted earlier. Most everyone thinks that a very small piece of rubber is sent to the lab and that is far from the truth. All the series that we race with (CompCams MSCCS MARS SAS) take plenty. They will have us take a grooving iron and cut all the way across 1 of the blocks on the outside row and put that in the container. Roll the tire about a 1/3rd of the way around and cut a full strip from the center block. Roll it another 1/3rd and cut a strip from the outside row on the other shoulder. They do this to make sure it isn't a tainted sample. If, and I mean "IF" you run over some spot in the pits or on the track it may only contaminate 1 spot on the tire. They have multiple samples in the case of a protest like we just had. Heck, the lab may check a portion of all 3 the 1st go round. I have no idea. I just know its not 1 small fraction the size of a pencil eraser that is obtained.

I have 1 other comment when it comes to cheating tires. EVERY team that cheats tires knows they have a 75% chance of getting away with it. Remember there are 4 tires on the car. So its pretty good odds that they still won't get caught. At the Dream they have $100000.00 reasons to try it. From what we know about Friday and Sam saying they were going to check 1 certain tire on the car, what's to say EVERYONE didn't go bolt on a cheater tire or tires on a different location than they were checking. Has anyone even thought of that? That may be why JD was laughing about it. Check my RF Sam. I'm gonna cheat my left rear. Nobody really knows now do we. We have to trust the system we have because it has worked pretty good so far. Does it need to be tweaked? Most certainly. I think it has to be done so it will keep EVERYONE from cheating tires. We can beat the he1l out of this dead horse all we want but those 5 guys AINT racing with UMP/WoO anytime soon..........

[old fan]

It's not a federal crime to soak racing tires, as much as some of you would like to form a lynch mob!!!! :) Your right but it is a sanctions right , when was the last time lucasquist do a tire test

[old fan]

Go figure a guy with the name RocketChassis#1 would post this. I also seen where rocket chassis is sponsoring a series. Is this fine monies? the truth kicks you there don't it

[Josh Bayko]

Go figure a guy with the name RocketChassis#1 would post this. I also seen where rocket chassis is sponsoring a series. Is this fine monies?

Rocket sponsors a bunch of series', and have for years, but they don't really just kick over money. Their contributions are usually gift certificates, although in some cases they have given away a bare frame.

[Barbecueboy]

BBQ, 1st let me apologize as it sounded like I singled you out with my last post. I didn't mean to come across that way and I should have posted it in a better manner. I am sorry.

I am actively working with a race team and do have some insight on this as with some of what I posted earlier. Most everyone thinks that a very small piece of rubber is sent to the lab and that is far from the truth. All the series that we race with (CompCams MSCCS MARS SAS) take plenty. They will have us take a grooving iron and cut all the way across 1 of the blocks on the outside row and put that in the container. Roll the tire about a 1/3rd of the way around and cut a full strip from the center block. Roll it another 1/3rd and cut a strip from the outside row on the other shoulder. They do this to make sure it isn't a tainted sample. If, and I mean "IF" you run over some spot in the pits or on the track it may only contaminate 1 spot on the tire. They have multiple samples in the case of a protest like we just had. Heck, the lab may check a portion of all 3 the 1st go round. I have no idea. I just know its not 1 small fraction the size of a pencil eraser that is obtained.

I have 1 other comment when it comes to cheating tires. EVERY team that cheats tires knows they have a 75% chance of getting away with it. Remember there are 4 tires on the car. So its pretty good odds that they still won't get caught. At the Dream they have $100000.00 reasons to try it. From what we know about Friday and Sam saying they were going to check 1 certain tire on the car, what's to say EVERYONE didn't go bolt on a cheater tire or tires on a different location than they were checking. Has anyone even thought of that? That may be why JD was laughing about it. Check my RF Sam. I'm gonna cheat my left rear. Nobody really knows now do we. We have to trust the system we have because it has worked pretty good so far. Does it need to be tweaked? Most certainly. I think it has to be done so it will keep EVERYONE from cheating tires. We can beat the he1l out of this dead horse all we want but those 5 guys AINT racing with UMP/WoO anytime soon..........

I didn't take it that way at all........all good on my end.

Every tire sample I've seen taken have been done in a similar manner ........and although I'm not at every single race every single night ,I have gone on the road for extended periods during the years and seen them conducted from Tampa to Busti and everywhere in between.

I guess it's the best we have right now because nobody smart enough has put their heads together to come up with something better and more foolproof, .....I certainly respect your opinion and humor and respect the fact that you take the time to share your actual experiences and insight.

So again, no worries..........

[Necrosis]

This just in, more reliable news! Bloomquist named as Donald Trump's VP choice, Owens will now be sponsored by Ambien, and Satterlee and BShepp just won a team dunk contest! Thornton, well, no idea.

[BIGSTEVE00]

I know its hard for us to believe that our favorite driver(or drivers or whoever it is) has cheated. I understand this. I'm a big BShepp fan and yes its hard for me to believe that he cheated, but they got caught red handed. Yes I'm sure there are better ways to test these tires and I do agree the results should get posted so everybody can see them and fully understand them. I'm sure a lot of race fans don't understand why these drivers even got dq'd, especially if they don't get on 4m.net and get all the experts advice, lol. But it doesn't matter what any of us fans say or do, its not going to change the outcome. I'd say there is a lot more cheating going on than what anybody knows. For some its the only way they feel they can compete with top notch teams, especially with the way JD, Bloomer and Richards has been dominating the last few years. And I'm sure the WRG takes into consideration that these cars could've drove thru something on the track, which is possible. But if these lab tests test for chemicals that are illegal and they are found in the test results then that's the final answer. Yea it sucks but if they don't do something to these drivers then before we know it everybody would be juicing their tires or whatever else they could get away with. You can't let the ones breaking the rules get by with breaking the rules. Well that's my 2cents worth. Thanks for keeping me entertained, lol. Everybody have a good and safe Holiday weekend!!! Enjoy whatever races you have going on at your local track. Be safe and Let's Go Racing!!!!!

[old fan]

is juicing the tires really need I m sure Erb 's tires were tested

[fastford]

good post big steve , i feel the same way.....