Just a thoughtb

[pierceFAN]

Why not let the super late models do whatever they want... No rules... Put the rules on the crates and mods...that's for the common folk...let the rich boys run what you brung like in the old days..no rules just the fastest and most inovative won

[old fan]

Car counts are already in the crapper great move not

[MI Dirt Fan]

Isn't it more of a "environment" thing than a "cheating" thing? Kinda like the DEQ shutting a track down because soil samples failed

[plunks7]

Why not let the super late models do whatever they want... No rules... Put the rules on the crates and mods...that's for the common folk...let the rich boys run what you brung like in the old days..no rules just the fastest and most inovative won

That's exactly right. OPEN LATE MODELS- OPEN RULES.

[plunks7]

Car counts are already in the crapper great move not

Your just worried you couldn't keep up watching the lead car. You'll get all Dizzy again. And we all know what happens when you get dizzy. You collect money. :) :) Wear a brain bucket, their I helped you out. You don't have to Thank me. It was from the kindness of my Heart. LOL :) :)

[pkracer]

That was basically what they had before Bob Memmer started UMP. They had wedge cars with no rules and the car counts sucked. I will have to admit that the wedge cars looked cool. Charlie Swartz had one of the neatest ones.

[Snake X3]

If I had my way that's the route they would go. Ideally it would promote real innovation like we used to see at the Indy 500. I think it would raise fan interest since most series are pretty much spec cars. Realistically it might be prohibitively expensive for most teams, but just because you have a true "open competition" class doesn't mean you couldn't have Supers with rules as well.

It's pie in the sky though. It won't happen. It's nice to think about though.

[Hovlane]

Isn't it more of a "environment" thing than a "cheating" thing? Kinda like the DEQ shutting a track down because soil samples failed

It's a enviromental issue and a safety issue. Hoosier advises against chemical additives for safety reasons. As for enhanceing the performance of a tire it will. But it's really only worthwhile if your racing at a track or sancantioning body mandates a single hard compound. You can soften a 40 to the point that is acts like a 20. But you also get the wear of a 20 not the 40. But if you have multible choices 10,20,30 or 40. If you want to run a 20 you run it you gain zero by doping a 40. No real point in doping tires when you have choices. Now if Big Bad sanction say you can only run this one compound the yes you wil have a performance advantage. IMHO

Tire doping is way more rampant in a series where they mandate a single tire one compound. Doping is common. UMP lucas Woo all have choices of tire avaliable to use. It's sorta counter productive to dope in this type of situation.

For what ever reason fans want to believe doping is out of control and everybody is doing it. Just not true. Some of this fire gets fueled by other drivers who are not performing at a level that they should be. So they say we are getting beat by guys cheating their tires, Well sorry cupcake you're just not getting your car set up or just not getting it done behind the wheel. It's always easy to blame the Boogie man for your lack of skills.

[old fan]

Lm20 or lm40

[petesbuyin]

I have been involved in this sport for over 40 years and I don't ever remember a time when there were not rules to follow. But let's think about what a car today would be like in a no rules- run what you brung race. First of you would not run a wimpy little 92"-11" tire like the rules say now, no you would go for a 110"-18" to get some good rubber on the track. Instead of running a small bodied car with a 42" spoiler you would be running at least a 80" or 90" spoiler. The front of the current cars are around 95" wide but you would want to run at least 110" to cover the wider tires. Now the car won't fit inside of an enclosed trailer so you will need a new hauler. Also the car is too wide for the highway so you will need D.O.T. travel permits just to get it to the race track (Charlie Swartz had to do this with his wide body car before there was a width rule). You would have at least 3 or 4 sheets of 4x10 lexan down the side of the car for aero. Instead of around 21 feet long car like now, you would want at least 28 - 30 feet to take advantage of the shovel nose and long spoiler and quarter panels. There would be no weight rule so the aluminum bodies that are used now would be replaced with carbon fiber. Without a weight rule you would have to remove the rotors, calipers, and pedals from the car when you qualify like was done at Eldora back in the day. You qualified without brakes on the car and had to have a "catcher" in the pits to stop the cars. Then you had to put everything back on to run the heats. The rules now are 1 4 barrel carb, but without rules, today you would want to run electronic fuel injection and 1 or two turbos to make enough power to pull that big body, 900 HP ain't going to make it with those tires and body. With no weight rule you would be looking at a carbon fiber chassis instead of the steel that is required now. I am sure there are alot of other ways to gains speed without rules, these are just a few that popped into my head. A top of the line car today costs around a $100,000 to put on the track, I would guess an open car would run about $300 -$400,000 to put on the track. Plus the cost of a new hauler. I am sure there are 3 or 4 teams that could afford that cost and they would put on a he11 of a show.

[Barbecueboy]

Isn't it more of a "environment" thing than a "cheating" thing? Kinda like the DEQ shutting a track down because soil samples failed

That's what the status quo sheep and tire companies would have you to believe.............posturing on the environment argument is just that.

[Barbecueboy]

It's a enviromental issue and a safety issue. Hoosier advises against chemical additives for safety reasons. As for enhanceing the performance of a tire it will. But it's really only worthwhile if your racing at a track or sancantioning body mandates a single hard compound. You can soften a 40 to the point that is acts like a 20. But you also get the wear of a 20 not the 40. But if you have multible choices 10,20,30 or 40. If you want to run a 20 you run it you gain zero by doping a 40. No real point in doping tires when you have choices. Now if Big Bad sanction say you can only run this one compound the yes you wil have a performance advantage. IMHO

Tire doping is way more rampant if series where they mandate a single tire one compound. Doping is common. UMP lucas Woo all have choices of tire avaible to use. It's sorta counter productive to dope in this type of situation.

For what ever reason fans want to believe doping is out of control and everybody is doing it. Just not true. Some of this fire get fueled by other drivers who are not performing at a level that they should be. So they say we are getting beat by guys cheating their tires, Well sorry cupcake you're just not getting your car set up or just not getting it done behind the wheel. It's always easy to blame the Boogie man for your lack of skills.

Probably one of the best posts I've read on the subject.........

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Why not let the super late models do whatever they want... No rules... Put the rules on the crates and mods...that's for the common folk...let the rich boys run what you brung like in the old days..no rules just the fastest and most inovative won

I wouldn't go that far, but a rulebook that fits on one page would be great. Must run carb, basic body dimensions, wheelbase, engine setback location, tire size then let them race.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

It's a enviromental issue and a safety issue. Hoosier advises against chemical additives for safety reasons. As for enhanceing the performance of a tire it will. But it's really only worthwhile if your racing at a track or sancantioning body mandates a single hard compound. You can soften a 40 to the point that is acts like a 20. But you also get the wear of a 20 not the 40. But if you have multible choices 10,20,30 or 40. If you want to run a 20 you run it you gain zero by doping a 40. No real point in doping tires when you have choices. Now if Big Bad sanction say you can only run this one compound the yes you wil have a performance advantage. IMHO

Tire doping is way more rampant if series where they mandate a single tire one compound. Doping is common. UMP lucas Woo all have choices of tire avaible to use. It's sorta counter productive to dope in this type of situation.

For what ever reason fans want to believe doping is out of control and everybody is doing it. Just not true. Some of this fire get fueled by other drivers who are not performing at a level that they should be. So they say we are getting beat by guys cheating their tires, Well sorry cupcake you're just not getting your car set up or just not getting it done behind the wheel. It's always easy to blame the Boogie man for your lack of skills.

1000% correct. It happens all the time in racing. Guys are getting beat and think it is some illegal part that is beating them. When in reality, their work ethic sucks, or their maintenance program sucks, they cant drive, etc.

[cutman]

Costs are already out of hand, go to completely open and Supers will be dead.

[Josh Bayko]

It's a enviromental issue and a safety issue. Hoosier advises against chemical additives for safety reasons. As for enhanceing the performance of a tire it will. But it's really only worthwhile if your racing at a track or sancantioning body mandates a single hard compound. You can soften a 40 to the point that is acts like a 20. But you also get the wear of a 20 not the 40. But if you have multible choices 10,20,30 or 40. If you want to run a 20 you run it you gain zero by doping a 40. No real point in doping tires when you have choices. Now if Big Bad sanction say you can only run this one compound the yes you wil have a performance advantage. IMHO

Tire doping is way more rampant if series where they mandate a single tire one compound. Doping is common. UMP lucas Woo all have choices of tire avaible to use. It's sorta counter productive to dope in this type of situation.

For what ever reason fans want to believe doping is out of control and everybody is doing it. Just not true. Some of this fire get fueled by other drivers who are not performing at a level that they should be. So they say we are getting beat by guys cheating their tires, Well sorry cupcake you're just not getting your car set up or just not getting it done behind the wheel. It's always easy to blame the Boogie man for your lack of skills.


Solid post, and I agree with the sentiment, but straight up softening is pretty low on the list of reasons folks juice their tires.

[Bubstr]

Seems a lot of racers couldn't afford to run what ya brung and a lot of fans couldn't afford to watch them. Nor would they want to. Be careful what you wish for. Those old wedge cars looked neat, but most o the races where stinkers.

[formercrewguy]

Sure.....and lets bring back radios and mirrors too. NOT!!

[Barbecueboy]

Yeah, and for shoots and googles, let's test tires like we did way back then too pfffffttttt.......


Wouldn't that be a riot, lol.

[jog49]

Open rules would widen the gap between the haves and have nots.
What you would end up with is very fast cars and very slow cars, which always results in a demolition derby type atmosphere. Soon, open SLM events would have four or five cars competing and you would start complaining that you are not paying $25 to see five cars race. Best to leave well enough alone. Car counts are already dropping with things as they are.

[oldfart50]

Then your boy wouldnt be racing as they couldnt afford it. The cost of racing is already killing the sport and that would just kill it faster. This isnt 1982 and 99.9% of the drivers today cant even weld little lone be that innovative. I cant think of a single team that would be able to afford that.
Why not let the super late models do whatever they want... No rules... Put the rules on the crates and mods...that's for the common folk...let the rich boys run what you brung like in the old days..no rules just the fastest and most inovative won

[Josh Bayko]

Then your boy wouldnt be racing as they couldnt afford it. The cost of racing is already killing the sport and that would just kill it faster. This isnt 1982 and 99.9% of the drivers today cant even weld little lone be that innovative. I cant think of a single team that would be able to afford that.

The house cars (Richards, Pierce, etc...) would have a leg up on everybody else in a truly open scenario, because they are already building their own stuff, and not buying a roller and having to change a bunch of stuff on it.

[pierceFAN]

It's not a whole lot different that what goes on now..what's the huge cost increase??? Chassis will be the same... You can only have so much horsepower so building some extravagant high dollar horsepower motor would be wasted power...what's left?? Tires?? Shocks?? What is it that you all say is gonna cost so much? Just curious...keep in mind...this is just a topic for discussion. Something I've wondered several years ago