Eric Wells allowed to race after that violent crash?

[IZZOJR16]

For one I feel terrible for him, talk about one bad night at the track, terrible crash and go from leading a heat to being out. BUT HERE IS MY QUESTION. I don't know what the protocols are after a crash like that with WOO (or any series for that matter), but what would the medics are first-responders have done to make sure we was fit to climb back into a race car? With all we know about TBI and the brain, unless there is an actual doctor on site to test for TBI ,or other series injuries ,shouldn't he have been sent to the hospital for further test?

[TheJet-09]

I'm with you, but I think it's an area where we're stuck in the good ol' days. Until someone gets sued or is found liable, nothing will change. As long as a person can answer appropriately to questions such as person, place, time, and thing (event), EMS isn't going to force you to go to a Hospital, nor can they (as long as you show you are reasonably able to care for yourself). There is also a great deal of "machismo" in our sport. No one's going to tell me (a dirt racer) what to do, and most certainly won't tell me I'm hurt, when "I feel just fine." Innovations in restraint devices and chassis design itself have greatly improved our chances of walking away from incidents as such "unscathed." But there's always potential for an underlying issue. I'm not really an Earnhardt Jr. fan, but I give him credit for taking a step back to look after his own well-being. It also reminds me he's not his dad! Senior would've raced with his eyes popping out of his head. Remember when he flipped at Talladega (I think it was) and they turned the car over, busted windshield and all, and he said "Hey, let's see if this thing will fire up!" I remember watching that thinking "Am I missing something?" They didn't check him or the car out, but let him continue? I don't know...

[kidrock]

I'm with you, but I think it's an area where we're stuck in the good ol' days. Until someone gets sued or is found liable, nothing will change. As long as a person can answer appropriately to questions such as person, place, time, and thing (event), EMS isn't going to force you to go to a Hospital, nor can they (as long as you show you are reasonably able to care for yourself). There is also a great deal of "machismo" in our sport. No one's going to tell me (a dirt racer) what to do, and most certainly won't tell me I'm hurt, when "I feel just fine." Innovations in restraint devices and chassis design itself have greatly improved our chances of walking away from incidents as such "unscathed." But there's always potential for an underlying issue. I'm not really an Earnhardt Jr. fan, but I give him credit for taking a step back to look after his own well-being. It also reminds me he's not his dad! Senior would've raced with his eyes popping out of his head. Remember when he flipped at Talladega (I think it was) and they turned the car over, busted windshield and all, and he said "Hey, let's see if this thing will fire up!" I remember watching that thinking "Am I missing something?" They didn't check him or the car out, but let him continue? I don't know...

I remember when Rickey Rudd flip violently in Daytona during the Busch clash and the next week raced in the Daytona 500 with his eyes taped open and the following week went out and won the race at Richmond.

[waaac77]

He was fine to continue. Walked away and went with paramedics to be checked out. There were two ambulances there and many EMTs. Were you at the race or just trying to start sh!t?

[old fan]

Flipping at daytona might be different then flipping at a 1/4 mile lol

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I remember when Rickey Rudd flip violently in Daytona during the Busch clash and the next week raced in the Daytona 500 with his eyes taped open and the following week went out and won the race at Richmond.Oh yeah, I remember that. And his eyes still looked like Tyson clocked him.

[kidrock]

Oh yeah, I remember that. And his eyes still looked like Tyson clocked him.

Yeah he could barley open them that week as well and yes it did look he went a few rounds with Tyson alright a few seconds lol!!!

but, that chrash Wells had Friday Night was pretty violent in its own right.

[zyoung25]

I remember when Rickey Rudd flip violently in Daytona during the Busch clash and the next week raced in the Daytona 500 with his eyes taped open and the following week went out and won the race at Richmond.

Rudd was a real life Rowdy Burns, he even looked like him. I remember the line Rowdy had in that movie about racing with his eyeballs popped out of his head. I'm sure theres a lot of those old guys and think the drivers of today are pu$$ies. In some ways they are, and some they aren't.

All in all, safety is nothing to mess with. If a guy don't feel right being in the car, keep them out of it.

[fryefan]

He was fine to continue. Walked away and went with paramedics to be checked out. There were two ambulances there and many EMTs. Were you at the race or just trying to start sh!t?

Also, the EMT's went back to his pit area later on (before he raced again) to check on his condition and to make sure he was good to go.

[kidrock]

Rudd was a real life Rowdy Burns, he even looked like him. I remember the line Rowdy had in that movie about racing with his eyeballs popped out of his head. I'm sure theres a lot of those old guys and think the drivers of today are pu$$ies. In some ways they are, and some they aren't.

All in all, safety is nothing to mess with. If a guy don't feel right being in the car, keep them out of it.

Yeah Rudd was no doubt a warrior

[IZZOJR16]

He was fine to continue. Walked away and went with paramedics to be checked out. There were two ambulances there and many EMTs. Were you at the race or just trying to start sh!t? LIGHTEN UP FRANCES, no I wasn't and no I'm not trying to start anything. What test would any of the EMTs done to make sure he was fine to race, I wonder what the checks would be? I don't know, but I find it hard to believe any of them are trained to detect possible TBI injuries or a complete check of internal injures. I find it hard to believe in 2016 a driver has that terrible of an accident and not sent to the hospital a precaution. maybe someone with EMT training will chime in soon.

[IZZOJR16]

Rudd was a real life Rowdy Burns, he even looked like him. I remember the line Rowdy had in that movie about racing with his eyeballs popped out of his head. I'm sure theres a lot of those old guys and think the drivers of today are pu$$ies. In some ways they are, and some they aren't. All in all, safety is nothing to mess with. If a guy don't feel right being in the car, keep them out of it. I'm willing to bet some of the old guys wish people were more wise about safety in their days.

[waaac77]

LIGHTEN UP FRANCES, no I wasn't and no I'm not trying to start anything. What test would any of the EMTs done to make sure he was fine to race, I wonder what the checks would be? I don't know, but I find it hard to believe any of them are trained to detect possible TBI injuries or a complete check of internal injures. I find it hard to believe in 2016 a driver has that terrible of an accident and not sent to the hospital a precaution. maybe someone with EMT training will chime in soon.

Like the Stripes reference but I think you should lighten up and not be so worried about it. If the EMT's are not trained to detect possible TBI then they're not qualified EMT's and would not get hired in the first place. I find it hard to believe in 2016 an EMT that can't detect TBI and approve someone to go back out there or know whether or not they should take them in to the hospital.

[MotoMatt]

I agree with WAAAC77, my wife is a Neurology Nurse Practitioner, and the checks for TBI are actually pretty easy to train first responders for. And from my experience, EMT's and Paramedics are extremely serious folks and take pride in being cautious for safety and health sake. If the on site EMT's or Paramedics gave him the pass he was probably good to go. Now, I have seen some pretty scary looking safety staff at some tracks here in Iowa that if they said I was good to go would probably call the medivac chopper because I don't think they could diagnose a dead cat.

[IZZOJR16]

Like the Stripes reference but I think you should lighten up and not be so worried about it. If the EMT's are not trained to detect possible TBI then they're not qualified EMT's and would not get hired in the first place. I find it hard to believe in 2016 an EMT that can't detect TBI and approve someone to go back out there or know whether or not they should take them in to the hospital. I HIGHLY doubt EMT's are trained to deal with specifics of neurotrauma. Do EMT'S use some type of cognitive test , why are you so adamant that EMT's can make sure without a doubt there isn't a TBI or other internal traumatic injury for that matter?

[huskerdirt]

Paging Kelley Carlton......

[IZZOJR16]

I agree with WAAAC77, my wife is a Neurology Nurse Practitioner, and the checks for TBI are actually pretty easy to train first responders for. And from my experience, EMT's and Paramedics are extremely serious folks and take pride in being cautious for safety and health sake. If the on site EMT's or Paramedics gave him the pass he was probably good to go. Now, I have seen some pretty scary looking safety staff at some tracks here in Iowa that if they said I was good to go would probably call the medivac chopper because I don't think they could diagnose a dead cat. I'm sure they do take there job very serious. I just question, how can without a doubt an EMT make sure there isn't an TBI or any other serious internal injuries? I don't know anything about EMT's, just wondering, I know a little about TBI and the effects it having/had all sports, especially with violent impacts. I know the NFL, NASCAR, MLB, NBA, most of the time will do further test JUST TO BE SAFE, since TBI has become an issue in sports.

[flagone]

There are alertness and orientation questions and tests along with vital sign and symptomatic reviews.

On my team I have 3 paramedics and 1 EMT. There are always at least 2 of them there. If they tell me they shouldn't be allowed to race I would go with their judgement.

However as someone stated we can't force anyone to do anything thereafter. We can't even force them to go to the doctor against their will. But the EMTs will require a refusal waiver to be signed if they feel they should be transported and they refuse.

[IZZOJR16]

There are alertness and orientation questions and tests along with vital sign and symptomatic reviews. On my team I have 3 paramedics and 1 EMT. There are always at least 2 of them there. If they tell me they shouldn't be allowed to race I would go with their judgement. However as someone stated we can't force anyone to do anything thereafter. We can't even force them to go to the doctor against their will. But the EMTs will require a refusal waiver to be signed if they feel they should be transported and they refuse. thank for your reply. Do you think there should be more involvement with a racing governing bodies when it comes to making these calls, and take that call out of the drivers hands? For example a racing series could keep a driver out until he's proven by medical professionals the he's been checked for TBI and cleared to race by the medical professional/s.

[Just The Tip]

thank for your reply. Do you think there should be more involvement with a racing governing bodies when it comes to making these calls, and take that call out of the drivers hands? For example a racing series could keep a driver out until he's proven by medical professionals the he's been checked for TBI and cleared to race by the medical professional/s.


I don't know what more could be done at the race track. Sounds like after his wreck he talked with paramedics, and later on the paramedics went back to his pit area and talked with him again. They obviously felt he was good to go.

And just to your question about being cleared by medical professioanls, do you not feel licensed and trained paramedics are good enough? If not, then who pays for a visit to a medical doctor? The series, driver, track? A grown adult can always refuse further treatment with a signed waiver.

I'm not flaming you here, I'm honestly just curious what more you think could've been done in this situation. Sounds like everything worked well in this instance.

[IZZOJR16]

I don't know what more could be done at the race track. Sounds like after his wreck he talked with paramedics, and later on the paramedics went back to his pit area and talked with him again. They obviously felt he was good to go. And just to your question about being cleared by medical professioanls, do you not feel licensed and trained paramedics are good enough? If not, then who pays for a visit to a medical doctor? The series, driver, track? A grown adult can always refuse further treatment with a signed waiver. I'm not flaming you here, I'm honestly just curious what more you think could've been done in this situation. Sounds like everything worked well in this instance. I in no way feel like you're flaming me, I'm enjoying the conversation, thank you for the reply. Yeah I'm not sure what more they could have done at the track for him either. I'm willing to bet 99% of EMT's are smart and great at their job, which is a very hard and important. that being said, I don't know if EMT''s for-certain can make sure there is or isn't a TBI injury or other internal issues. True a grown man can sign a waiver. If a driver refuses further medical care at the request of the medical team the series shouldn't let him race until he can prove he's been cleared by a legitimate doctor or specialist? As for billing, that would be tough luck for the driver, which I'm sure it has always been.

[Clayton_Wetter]

All they needed to do was just give him this simple test!!!!

http://thehumanfactor.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bus-right-or-left.png

[flagone]

Because our sport is how it is it would be very hard to make any mandates about things like that because drivers have so many options to race and would just go to another sanction. And while the health and well being of drivers is at the top of my and many others lists unfortunately without a unified system none of, especially on a regional level, can afford to do much more than we already do.

It is my sincere hope that a driver would be smart enough to protect themselves and others if they were compromised in any way. Guys like Randy Weaver and Chris Madden have shown the correct path and hopefully others will follow.

Now to speak to the part that bothers me most and where I think we can do the most to protect these guys. We need to mandate head and neck restraints as well as containment seats across the board. Every sanctioning body. And even that isn't enough as I believe both of those guys were wearing the H&Ns and use the seats. We need to continue to look at construction of cars and tracks. And finally we absolutely need to slow these cars down. Much of which I believe lies in doing something with shock packages to start. We have the cars so tied down on the right front - as I pointed out to someone earlier this week - the cars are about halfway turned over when they roll onto the track. But it has to be a unified deal. We all have to do it. That is where my emphasis is and will be at future meetings of the unified late model rules committee.

[Clayton_Wetter]

And there is a correct answer BTW!!!

[old fan]

all they needed to do was just give him this simple test!!!!http://thehumanfactor.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bus-right-or-left.pngi see mud duck tnie and ss12 sitting in the bus

[Clayton_Wetter]

Right or left?

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

All they needed to do was just give him this simple test!!!!

http://thehumanfactor.biz/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/bus-right-or-left.png


CW,
Are u driving da buss?

[old fan]

Ask the libs riding it i work as drive for a living so don't need the bus they are going back to school for free don't you know

[Clayton_Wetter]

No not dat bus? SS

Doesn't anyone know which ways it's going?

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

No not dat bus? SS

Doesn't anyone know which ways it's going?


It depends on which way u turn the steering wheel mr wetter!

[Clayton_Wetter]

You guys don't know?? hahahahahahaha

[Just The Tip]

I in no way feel like you're flaming me, I'm enjoying the conversation, thank you for the reply. Yeah I'm not sure what more they could have done at the track for him either. I'm willing to bet 99% of EMT's are smart and great at their job, which is a very hard and important. that being said, I don't know if EMT''s for-certain can make sure there is or isn't a TBI injury or other internal issues. True a grown man can sign a waiver. If a driver refuses further medical care at the request of the medical team the series shouldn't let him race until he can prove he's been cleared by a legitimate doctor or specialist? As for billing, that would be tough luck for the driver, which I'm sure it has always been.


Fair enough, and I agree with you. Maybe the tracks and/or series can implement a rule which states that if medical personnel don't feel you are of the right mental compascity to race without further evaluation and the driver declines a trip to the hospital, then they cannot race anymore that night. But if after an interview and exam with paramedics at the track they feel like the driver is good to go then that should be good enough too.

Luckily these type of accidents don't happen too often. I feel for the guys trying to make a living at this sport. Madden and Weaver for example. At least they recognized they weren't 100% and didn't push the issue.

Good discussion...

[donkypunch4u]

Maybe if the original poster was at the track himself he could have gotten the answers he is looking for. Perhaps he could have also learned a few things from a successful track with good car counts and a weekly show.

[old fan]

CLAYTON I saw you on that bus

[Krooser]

What we don't need in this sport is more 'mandatory' rules even for driver 'safety'. Mandate a particular piece of equipment and you are open to a sharp attorney who will argue the actual 'safety' equipment brought on the injuries. Saw it happen when tracks mandated cars having a fire extinguisher mounted within reach of the driver and the mount broke in a crash and injured the driver.

We are all big boys.... be careful of what you wish for.

[Barbecueboy]

You guys don't know?? hahahahahahaha
It's driving left.......

[plunks7]

If you read and comprehend what flagone and IZZOJR16 have posted. Is as close to spot on as one can get. I for one know what head injuries can do. Its not very fun!!! The driver "HIMSELF" is the only person that is able to feel or tell if their is something wrong. And you may not be able to feel the symptoms right away, it maybe a few days or weeks.

There is one thing in one of the posts I do disagree with. Its called racing, which in my terms means go as fast as you can. DOSN'T mean SLOW the cars down. We already have those classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Clayton_Wetter]

It's driving left.......

Yes, those other fellows don't even know why. hhhahahhahahaha

[Barbecueboy]

Yes, those other fellows don't even know why. hhhahahhahahaha

Hell, I dont either ........was a 50/50 shot.......and I'm pretty lucky.

[Barbecueboy]

Kidding.....the door to get in it must be on the other side and if it's up in the front like normal the bus has to be pointing left.......is that right?

[blncfn57]

Yes, those other fellows don't even know why. hhhahahhahahaha

The door Clayton, the door...... are you happy now? lol

[Barbecueboy]

If you read and comprehend what flagone and IZZOJR16 have posted. Is as close to spot on as one can get. I for one know what head injuries can do. Its not very fun!!! The driver "HIMSELF" is the only person that is able to feel or tell if their is something wrong. And you may not be able to feel the symptoms right away, it maybe a few days or weeks.

There is one thing in one of the posts I do disagree with. Its called racing, which in my terms means go as fast as you can. DOSN'T mean SLOW the cars down. We already have those classes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Too bad that we don't know of a tire or rubber company that has the resources and contacts that could come up with some sort of recycling effort to help support track safety barriers and such with the used tires after a race .......I'm sure the racers would cooperate and give them back after they have been used up for racing......too bad we don't know anybody capable of helping with that???

Heck maybe even the tire or rubber company would even take back the tires and offer the drivers a small return deposit to go towards the safety fund or their next tire purchase .......

And maybe we will all get to play nerf horseshoes off unicorn heads at the annual woo/blue ridge labs company BBQ later this summer.

[Barbecueboy]

CLAYTON I saw you on that bus

It is an awful short bus.....only 3 Windows.

I have zero problem believing you have seen the insides of one of those.

[fastford]

it appears to be sitting still to me.......

[Clayton_Wetter]

Kidding.....the door to get in it must be on the other side and if it's up in the front like normal the bus has to be pointing left.......is that right?

Right!.....

[Clayton_Wetter]

it appears to be sitting still to me.......

Peck on your screen! Yours may be froze.

[Clayton_Wetter]

It is an awful short bus.....only 3 Windows.

I have zero problem believing you have seen the insides of one of those.

Green Thumb picks him up in one every morning, so that they can go plants trees and flowers!!!

But I think he plants tulips too, if you know what I mean!!:)

[Clayton_Wetter]

The door Clayton, the door...... are you happy now? lol

Yes, now I can quit hijacking this this thread!!! lol

[Aces&Eights]

For one I feel terrible for him, talk about one bad night at the track, terrible crash and go from leading a heat to being out. BUT HERE IS MY QUESTION. I don't know what the protocols are after a crash like that with WOO (or any series for that matter), but what would the medics are first-responders have done to make sure we was fit to climb back into a race car? With all we know about TBI and the brain, unless there is an actual doctor on site to test for TBI ,or other series injuries ,shouldn't he have been sent to the hospital for further test?

Allow? This ain't Nascrap. Paramedics are perfectly capable to check you out for concussion symptoms and he or his crew would notice him being off. Too much 20/20 and Barbara Walters...

[IZZOJR16]

Fair enough, and I agree with you. Maybe the tracks and/or series can implement a rule which states that if medical personnel don't feel you are of the right mental compascity to race without further evaluation and the driver declines a trip to the hospital, then they cannot race anymore that night. But if after an interview and exam with paramedics at the track they feel like the driver is good to go then that should be good enough too. Luckily these type of accidents don't happen too often. I feel for the guys trying to make a living at this sport. Madden and Weaver for example. At least they recognized they weren't 100% and didn't push the issue. Good discussion...I agree as well, but I would like to see more mandatory precaution steps taking.

[IZZOJR16]

Allow? This ain't Nascrap. Paramedics are perfectly capable to check you out for concussion symptoms and he or his crew would notice him being off. Too much 20/20 and Barbara Walters...who said it was NASCAR? Safety should be #1 priority at any level of sports. I didn't say EMT's don't know how to check for concussion, I've ask if the for sure can tell if there isn't or is a TBI.

[IZZOJR16]

because our sport is how it is it would be very hard to make any mandates about things like that because drivers have so many options to race and would just go to another sanction. And while the health and well being of drivers is at the top of my and many others lists unfortunately without a unified system none of, especially on a regional level, can afford to do much more than we already do. It is my sincere hope that a driver would be smart enough to protect themselves and others if they were compromised in any way. Guys like randy weaver and chris madden have shown the correct path and hopefully others will follow.now to speak to the part that bothers me most and where i think we can do the most to protect these guys. We need to mandate head and neck restraints as well as containment seats across the board. Every sanctioning body. And even that isn't enough as i believe both of those guys were wearing the h&ns and use the seats. We need to continue to look at construction of cars and tracks. And finally we absolutely need to slow these cars down. Much of which i believe lies in doing something with shock packages to start. We have the cars so tied down on the right front - as i pointed out to someone earlier this week - the cars are about halfway turned over when they roll onto the track. But it has to be a unified deal. We all have to do it. That is where my emphasis is and will be at future meetings of the unified late model rules committee.great post!!

[Clayton_Wetter]

I agree as well, but I would like to see more mandatory precaution steps taking.


What more could they have done? Should the decision be put in the hands of the state or federal government, which would have him not racing indefinately?

[IZZOJR16]

What more could they have done? Should the decision be put in the hands of the state or federal government, which would have him not racing indefinately?government, who is talking about that ?? I think if a driver has that violent of an accident, further test should be done for his safety and the safety of other competitors. TBI is an very serious issue.

[Clayton_Wetter]

government, who is talking about that ?? I think if a driver has that violent of an accident, further test should be done for his safety and the safety of other competitors. TBI is an very serious issue.

So you think he should automatically be done for that night of racing?

[jog49]

Why would intelligent people with a potential brain injury want to get back in the car? Those who want to go back.....hand them a Darwin award and tell them to break a leg! It helps with the gene pool, you know.

[Just The Tip]

Why would intelligent people with a potential brain injury want to get back in the car? Those who want to go back.....hand them a Darwin award and tell them to break a leg! It helps with the gene pool, you know.

Because a lot of these guys have bills to pay and mouths to feed. This isn't a hobby for most of them. It's their livelihood. Same for NFL players playing through an injury. Gotta pay the bills.

[jog49]

A pulled hamstring and a scrambled brain are not in the same universe. Anybody placing the pursuit of the almighty dollar over possible, future debilitating repercussions and the endangerment of fellow competitors is a fool and should be barred from competition by promoters such as Kelley Carlton has eluded, at a minimum until a medical clearance has been issued.

[old fan]

Clayton's brain has been scrambled for years

[fastford]

Peck on your screen! Yours may be froze.

didnt help any, the door theory is pretty good, but what if the bus is in reverse ?

[Aces&Eights]

who said it was NASCAR? Safety should be #1 priority at any level of sports. I didn't say EMT's don't know how to check for concussion, I've ask if the for sure can tell if there isn't or is a TBI.

Yes you did, you said if a "Doctor" wasn't on the scene to test for TBI, that he should be forcibly sent to a hospital for testing. Paramedics are perfectly capable of checking a person for A need for further testing. Our society has turned into a bunch of nanny state ideologists, making decisions for everyone else, for the greater good. HillNo. Next you'll want age limits on drivers, mandatory full containment seats and on and on imposing what you deem fit for everyone else. No thank you Mr. Obama, I've had enough of your socialized healthcare followed by you telling us how we can live. No, no you can't have a large coke, you can only drink a small one, we know what's best for you.

[Jim11h]

Paid professional athletes get paid while still sitting out on sidelines, racers at these levels do not! Too many people wanna think for everyone else and hold and coddle the young. 20 yr olds being called kids in professional sports, I call bs! Their an adult, they are paid well and should act like it. Entirely too many do-gooders ruining life. TBI happens yes but not as frequently as many think. Media has blown this to epic proportions! Why isn't media attacking the #1 concussion sport soccer???

[Clayton_Wetter]

didnt help any, the door theory is pretty good, but what if the bus is in reverse ?

It was foreign made I guess, wheel on right side. hahahahaha

[Clayton_Wetter]

Paid professional athletes get paid while still sitting out on sidelines, racers at these levels do not! Too many people wanna think for everyone else and hold and coddle the young. 20 yr olds being called kids in professional sports, I call bs! Their an adult, they are paid well and should act like it. Entirely too many do-gooders ruining life. TBI happens yes but not as frequently as many think. Media has blown this to epic proportions! Why isn't media attacking the #1 concussion sport soccer???

Yes thanks to the media and government, lawsuits are allowing gold diggers to claim brain injury when all they are doing in reality in trying to get a cash settlement.

It deosn't matter what happened to the driver, if he felt perfectly okay then it's his call.

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Clayton's brain has been scrambled for years

That explains the coloring book and crayons along w hearing all the crickets!! Lol

[Clayton_Wetter]

That explains the coloring book and crayons along w hearing all the crickets!! Lol

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/6b/c9/94/6bc994ddd624d434000d990200dc6ac9.jpg