Any new theories on replicating the LR design within the new rules

[racefastnow]

I defiantly am noticing the certain cars dig better on the lr and behave like more I independent like the split cage. What are some things people are doing to help with the unloading from the chain and creating the dig effect. Running the lrf shock on the center of the housing helping? I just assumed they have worked around the rules now and figured out something better than the standard lr setup

[Stede Bonnet]

Swing arm.

[CCHIEF]

Aww....Come'on'Man!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Swing arm.

New ideas could actually be applied here and fix some of the design issues. Too bad it ain't legal...

[Stede Bonnet]

Swing Arm is legal, well it was the last rules I read, what R you talking about MR? You just yanking my chain or something... Do you mean new ideas aren't legal? Your right, its illegal to have a unique thought, both in politics and DLM racing.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Swing Arm is legal, well it was the last rules I read, what R you talking about MR? You just yanking my chain or something... Do you mean new ideas aren't legal? Your right, its illegal to have a unique thought, both in politics and DLM racing.
The unified rules do not allow new swing arm cars. At least not the original release. Lucas does allow.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Read section 15.8. Paragraph A. Bullet point 3

[zeroracing]

I will also point out that if somebody does recreate majic, it will not be explained or discussed by them on here.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I will also point out that if somebody does recreate majic, it will not be explained or discussed by them on here.
You mean you wouldn't post drawings? Lol

[old fan]

something don't smell right http://lucasdirt.com/images/files/2016RevisedRuleBook.pdf

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

something don't smell right http://lucasdirt.com/images/files/2016RevisedRuleBook.pdf

Going to have to be a lot more specific.

[Stede Bonnet]

From what I read swing arm/pull bar setup is legal, only issue I read is 90/10 must go forward, which is BS. Thought it was funny "live axel" is now illegal, not sure rule makers even know how a race car works or what the parts are. LOL.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

From what I read swing arm/pull bar setup is legal, only issue I read is 90/10 must go forward, which is BS. Thought it was funny "live axel" is now illegal, not sure rule makers even know how a race car works or what the parts are. LOL.

Which rulebook? The section I posted for UMP/WOO specifically says must be 4 link for construction of a new car.

I believe you are correct if referencing Lucas rules.

[old fan]

Read section 15.8. Paragraph A. Bullet point 3 NOT IN PRESENT RULE BOOK

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Read section 15.8. Paragraph A. Bullet point 3 NOT IN PRESENT RULE BOOK

You posted the Lucas rulebook! Wrong one!

[Stede Bonnet]

Here is the link to the WoO Unified Rules.
http://www.woolms.com/images/stories/Main_Images/PDF/2016UnifiedSuspensionBulletin.pdf

If you read the portion you alluded to literally it sounds like swing arm is illegal, but if you read everything included in the rules it sounds as though it is legal. I understand they list "4 link" as the common suspension but I'm wondering if that is meaning 4 separate links, not 4 links facing forward. I sent them an email and I'm waiting to hear back. They sound so proud of themselves in their collective movement to abolish everything. This is why I opposed WRG from the beginning, too much centralized power and the average racer with "NO" say.

[keeks]

Are you not aware of what a live axle is?

[sidewinder69]

What was the general purpose of the rumley device?

[TheJet-09]

Don't hold your breath on getting a response to your email. I tried asking them to explain what the interior rule about being level across from 20" on back (or whatever the number/verbiage is) means, because I don't see many (if any) cars that have level interior except at the firewall and spoiler. But I emailed them four years ago, so maybe they've just been busy.

[Stede Bonnet]

Are you not aware of what a live axle is?
Yes, an axle that drives thru both rear wheels simultaneously and evenly. We had to run "Live Axles" in karting, no differentiating power to one wheel over the other, equal power delivered to both sides.


What was the general purpose of the rumley device?

It corrected an inherent flaw in the 4 link rear suspension that hindered traction.

[old fan]

how many teams have won with a swing arm lately

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

how many teams have won with a swing arm lately

No idea. You could have asked the same question about 4 links in 1993.

[old fan]

i would say no would be the answer when was the last time you saw a rayburn win i know one that runs real well not sure if its still a swing arm though

[Lizardracing]

Tons of swing arms running around here and doing well.

[zeroracing]

Lizard, swing and late models running up front? I have not noticed too many in the pits around myself, but have not been looking for them. Where are they still running upfront?

[TRocket8]

Lizard, swing and late models running up front? I have not noticed too many in the pits around myself, but have not been looking for them. Where are they still running upfront?

I believe 2002

[DEKconsulting]

I can guarantee that no swing arm is running up front with any kind of competition

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I can guarantee that no swing arm is running up front with any kind of competition

You aren't going to roll one out of CJs shop and do it, but it can be done.

[DGI]

There's a certain orange and blue #44 in PA that would disagree. Passed Chub and Jarrod Miley to win on last lap at Eriez. Straight outta CJ's shop.

[Stede Bonnet]

how many teams have won with a swing arm lately
On the national level probably 2009 was probably last year on the National level for Swing Arm cars. The last best finish for a Rayburn Swing Arm in the World 100 was Dennis Erb Jr in 2009, he finished 10th.

Dan Schleiper was in Rayburn for most of 2007, went Wild Swing Arm 2007-2009.
Shannon Babb was probably 2007.
Billy Moyer was 2007.
Don Oneal was still in Rayburn in 2008.
Dennis Erb Jr was 2009.
Terry Casey was 2009.

http://www.stlracing.com/community/index.php?threads/dennis-erb-steve-arpin-take-wins-at-macon-speedway.113700/
http://www.thebraziltimes.com/story/1321675.html
https://www.dirtondirt.com/National_1578.html

[keeks]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a live axle is one that is exposed and turning on the outside....ie sprint cars, big block mods. They don't want that coming into our sport.


Yes, an axle that drives thru both rear wheels simultaneously and evenly. We had to run "Live Axles" in karting, no differentiating power to one wheel over the other, equal power delivered to both sides.



It corrected an inherent flaw in the 4 link rear suspension that hindered traction.

[Stede Bonnet]

Correct me if I am wrong, but a live axle is one that is exposed and turning on the outside....ie sprint cars, big block mods. They don't want that coming into our sport.
No, at least not according to most engineering sites and info. "Open Tube" is the Sprint car type, "Live axle" is simply a solid rear end housing, non-IRS.

http://www.wisegeek.org/what-is-a-live-axle.htm

[dirtracerl77]

The live axle rule was in the rulebooks for UMP in the early 2000s, when I ran latemodel. Its nothing new.

[billetbirdcage]

Not sure about the date anymore, but no "live axle" has been in the rules for years. I do recall it was added to the MLRA rules after Bill Frye showed up with one, but don't really recall the year but seems it was late 90's but not 100% on the date as I said. It was referring to a sprint car rear end with knock offs/single nut to hold the wheels on.

Sometimes stuff gets deleted from the rules for no reason as probably an oversight. I remember when MLRA added the 3 or 4 wheel drive vehicles to the rules after the 97 dream as a bulletin at the register/pill draw and was added to the rules full rules the next year but seemed to disappear after a few years. Same goes for Fuel injection, 2 spark plugs per cylinder, Independent rear suspensions, Steering rear end assemblies, ETC. Many get added or deleted over the years whether by accident or whatever but seem it happen many times on some of these things.

You really have to go over the rules every year with a find tooth comb, but lately they been doing a better job on stuff not disappearing so.....

[Stede Bonnet]

No idea. You could have asked the same question about 4 links in 1993.

Very true, very true. So I guess from what I'm reading these, "Unified Rules" from WRG/WoO is what they want everyone nationwide to adopt, but Lucas hasn't and neither has Ultimate or SAS. Lucas rules still allow for Swing Arm and other systems, where as the WRG/WoO specifically calls for everyone to run a common, "4 link". Supposedly to save money... I guess its true, those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it, otherwise they'd know that every time the rules get tighter, costs go up. Its human nature, those who want to win will scratch, claw and test to find a competitive advantage. It would seem WRG/WoO wrote their unified rules with a Rocket car as the template, at least that's what I took away from reading it and the statement. Why is this generation so he!! bent on being socialists?

[a25rjr]

I think some of you are jumping to conclusions. I think the 4 link rule really means you can only attach the rearend to the frame with 4 links. The pics of Rumleys lr had more than 2 links. jmo

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I think some of you are jumping to conclusions. I think the 4 link rule really means you can only attach the rearend to the frame with 4 links. The pics of Rumleys lr had more than 2 links. jmo

That is not what the rules state. It makes it pretty clear that only existing swing arm are legal. They don't enforce the rules anyway.

Section D, bullet 8 makes swing arm not legal as well.

[Stede Bonnet]

That is not what the rules state. It makes it pretty clear that only existing swing arm are legal. They don't enforce the rules anyway.

Section D, bullet 8 makes swing arm not legal as well.

Yeah that's pretty much how i read it too. I'm not holding my breath on hearing back on my email I sent, thats like the 4th one in 6 months and they haven't responded to any of them. Very professional.

[billetbirdcage]

We submitted a bogus suspension to Lucas just to see what happened and how confidentiality was handled and got a response immediately that was a form letter that they would review it and let us know. That was before speedweeks still waiting on approval or anything, lol.