Tiregate fix

[bleedsbluer2]

Instead of everyone acting like lawyers and accusing this person or that person why not come up with ideals how to fix the problem heres my take on it dirt late models have 28 gallon fuel cells full of fuel it would weigh 174 lbs so if late mode with driver after race has to weigh 2300 lbs why not just weigh them before the race and make it a minimum 2550 lbs with fuel and driver as long as there legal before the race is all that should matter for chemical altered tire hoosier needs to figure out detector you put on valves stem to censor chemicals something on the path of a cops breathalyzer test if someone can create a breathalyzer test i know they can create chemical analyzers test from the air thats in the tire itself if we can send a space shuttle to the moon we can do this

[rickybrown1952]

Wow good idea makes since to me

[Centeroff]

Wouldn't matter. UMP has had a hat on for Scott for many years. Remember window net gate I guess we could call it at the world in 2014? Wasn't a rule in the book about running a window net. They let 3 cautions happen and after he takes the lead the next caution, they decide to put him to the tale of the field. Didn't matter because he had the most dominant car I had seen in modern era that night. All the BS tricks the UMP try to pull on him are gonna come out in court. Like him or not but it's a form of harassment or abuse of power, whatever you wanna call it!? They can't take from him what he has already won 4 times and add 6 dream wins to that and he shouldn't lose much sleep.

[ClampedUp]

Wouldn't matter. UMP has had a hat on for Scott for many years. Remember window net gate I guess we could call it at the world in 2014? Wasn't a rule in the book about running a window net. They let 3 cautions happen and after he takes the lead the next caution, they decide to put him to the tale of the field. Didn't matter because he had the most dominant car I had seen in modern era that night. All the BS tricks the UMP try to pull on him are gonna come out in court. Like him or not but it's a form of harassment or abuse of power, whatever you wanna call it!? They can't take from him what he has already won 4 times and add 6 dream wins to that and he shouldn't lose much sleep.

First I am NOT a Bloomquist fan.
IMO WRG/WoO/UMP have had it out for Bloomquist since he quit their "Dirty Dozen". Wasn't soon after that the "incidents" started....

[old fan]

if you can't follow the rules what would you expect the tire rules sounds good the weight rule no that is basically fuel burn off limits what lucas and some southern series do

[Mams]

Instead of everyone acting like lawyers and accusing this person or that person why not come up with ideals how to fix the problem heres my take on it dirt late models have 28 gallon fuel cells full of fuel it would weigh 174 lbs so if late mode with driver after race has to weigh 2300 lbs why not just weigh them before the race and make it a minimum 2550 lbs with fuel and driver as long as there legal before the race is all that should matter for chemical altered tire hoosier needs to figure out detector you put on valves stem to censor chemicals something on the path of a cops breathalyzer test if someone can create a breathalyzer test i know they can create chemical analyzers test from the air thats in the tire itself if we can send a space shuttle to the moon we can do this

Only potential problem is that there may be a lot of "Darrell Waltrip" steel balls laying on the inside of the track by end of race.

[MotoMatt]

Didn't matter because he had the most dominant car I had seen in modern era that night.

I disagree with that one, Ryan Gustin at I80's silver dollar nationals was in my opinion the most dominant car I have seen in a really long time. He cleared the field after coming out of the B and starting last, only reason he didn't win is his hardon got in the way of the steering wheel and he hit a lapped car...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXskIPt557E

[blncfn57]

Only potential problem is that there may be a lot of "Darrell Waltrip" steel balls laying on the inside of the track by end of race.

That's what I was thinking. Things used to have a way of mysteriously falling off cars during the race when they only weighed beforehand.

[Cardirt0]

Instead of everyone acting like lawyers and accusing this person or that person why not come up with ideals how to fix the problem heres my take on it dirt late models have 28 gallon fuel cells full of fuel it would weigh 174 lbs so if late mode with driver after race has to weigh 2300 lbs why not just weigh them before the race and make it a minimum 2550 lbs with fuel and driver as long as there legal before the race is all that should matter for chemical altered tire hoosier needs to figure out detector you put on valves stem to censor chemicals something on the path of a cops breathalyzer test if someone can create a breathalyzer test i know they can create chemical analyzers test from the air thats in the tire itself if we can send a space shuttle to the moon we can do this

Like I said be for 3 times ...Scale the car.. Stick the gas tank.. Say it has 5 gallon in.. Gas is 6.073 pounds.. Have a sign in put what the car is 3245 pounds with 5 gallons of gas thats 30.365 pounds.. that means the car is 3214.635 pounds with no gas..and he is over by 14.pounds..
...
End of race you scale car it has 3 gallon of gas in ..Do the same thing now they did be for and it should be the same as be for.... Now top 10 cars are Scaled (not just 3) when you have them all done they All should be the same as be for.. If the scale is off now for some reason from prerace... all the cars should will be off at end of race....
...
Scale 3 cars each heat race that way they can cheat on the heats...

[W2Racing09]

Here is how it should be done in my opinion?

UMP should take four samples from the tire, they should be sealed in evidence containers while the driver is watching. Once sealed they should be signed by the UMP official. The driver should then sign a form saying he saw the containers sealed. The driver should receive one sealed sample, UMP should retain two. When the sample is sent to the lab if it comes back hot one of the remaining samples should be sent to a different lab. If both labs come back hot then driver is DQ, if only one comes back hot and the other does not then driver is cleared. UMP, Hoosier and the labs should then work together to determine why the samples came back with different results to determine how to stop it from happening again, whatever is found during that process after the driver is cleared does not affect the drier. Once cleared the driver is clear. In exchange the penalty for juicing tires should be much stiffer and include a ban from all dirt racing at any track that hosts UMP racing for 365 days (that would include UMP tracks that LOLMDS runs at such as PRP and Macon) and a fine equal to 25% of the race winning that driver had made with UMP in the 90 days prior to being disqualified or $5000 (whichever amount is higher).

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Cardirt0]

Big E should have IN Ground Scales...(They use to) Once they are checked they should be good.. have them checked 3 times a year..When you pick up and put them away no way you cant know if they are right ...If they are in Ground (Like most tracks) they should be good too go...

[Cardirt0]

W2Racing09 and Cardirt Just Fixed it for them all .....Tires and Scales......

[Cardirt0]

And I sent my plan to one of the best and high pay Lawyer in ChTown and he helped me tweak it says this way will hold up by Law...

[Cardirt0]

How do you know how much gas is in car they make Dip sticks so you can see how much gas is in your tank...Easy to do...

[Bubstr]

Here is the deal. Some say certain teams can get tires that are special as in stagger and how they punch for the same compound. I believe it. I have seen it in go kart racing. You could get a soft compound that punched harder that the rest. Usually a older tire. Some of the chemicals have evaporated and gives you a tire in between a soft and medium. Sometimes there are harder compounds that punch softer than standard. These guys say it isn't cheating, but they have access to a tire that can only be obtained by juicing or special deals at the tire store. That makes them illegal and one of the reasons that lead people to be in favor of doping tires to make a legal playing field.

If the tire store is handing them out, they are handing them to special customers and the special customers know it. It's not something that gets handed out by mistake, very often.

Anytime you dope or get very agressive grooving, sypeing and needling it changes what the tire punches, (hardness). It determines flexibility, how heat builds up or dissipates, even if grooves keep a edge. Determine a narrow score for punching and everything outside that is illegal. Let them dope. On top of that, the health related chemicals should be banned. These are usually in the solvent family of chemicals, some in the acidic group, but should be able to test for individual chemicals very easy. But does anyone think Dawn dish soap is dangerous? Is fish oil in WD40? Fish don't think so. You will catch more fish if you squirt the worm with it.

The main thing is to be above board and get rid of these vague rules. Black and white, clear and concise will fix the problem. If you run a tire with this in it, You are a cheater, put people at a health risk and you are banned. If you punch wrong, you lose. Track doesn't care why. It is right or wrong. Punch them as they get weighed on that track scale, after the race, that is always correct, no matter what the weight says.

[Cardirt0]

Go ask Dennis Erb how much gas is in his Car he will get his stick and go dip the tank and say (like) 6 gallon.. Why does he dip his tank so he knows he has Fuel to make it to end of race.. I have Dip his car 4 or 5 times when i was helping him thats how I know he doe it.....

[Cardirt0]

Here is the deal. Some say certain teams can get tires that are special as in stagger and how they punch for the same compound. I believe it. I have seen it in go kart racing. You could get a soft compound that punched harder that the rest. Usually a older tire. Some of the chemicals have evaporated and gives you a tire in between a soft and medium. Sometimes there are harder compounds that punch softer than standard. These guys say it isn't cheating, but they have access to a tire that can only be obtained by juicing or special deals at the tire store. That makes them illegal and one of the reasons that lead people to be in favor of doping tires to make a legal playing field.

If the tire store is handing them out, they are handing them to special customers and the special customers know it. It's not something that gets handed out by mistake, very often.

Anytime you dope or get very agressive grooving, sypeing and needling it changes what the tire punches, (hardness). It determines flexibility, how heat builds up or dissipates, even if grooves keep a edge. Determine a narrow score for punching and everything outside that is illegal. Let them dope. On top of that, the health related chemicals should be banned. These are usually in the solvent family of chemicals, some in the acidic group, but should be able to test for individual chemicals very easy. But does anyone think Dawn dish soap is dangerous? Is fish oil in WD40? Fish don't think so. You will catch more fish if you squirt the worm with it.

The main thing is to be above board and get rid of these vague rules. Black and white, clear and concise will fix the problem. If you run a tire with this in it, You are a cheater, put people at a health risk and you are banned. If you punch wrong, you lose. Track doesn't care why. It is right or wrong. Punch them as they get weighed on that track scale, after the race, that is always correct, no matter what the weight says.

I have pump a Tire up to 90 pounds of air and let it set for a hour to get 1in taller tire.. I have had one Pop you dont want too be next too it when it does it could kill you.. This will also change the tire..Rubber pull out changes it....
Got a 20 Tire want a 30.. Heat the tire up let it cool.. heat the tire up let it cool ..Cheat it got it were you want it.. No heat the tire up let it cool. Cheak it. Done... Grind it Tire says 20 but its a 30...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Wouldn't matter. UMP has had a hat on for Scott for many years. Remember window net gate I guess we could call it at the world in 2014? Wasn't a rule in the book about running a window net. They let 3 cautions happen and after he takes the lead the next caution, they decide to put him to the tale of the field. Didn't matter because he had the most dominant car I had seen in modern era that night. All the BS tricks the UMP try to pull on him are gonna come out in court. Like him or not but it's a form of harassment or abuse of power, whatever you wanna call it!? They can't take from him what he has already won 4 times and add 6 dream wins to that and he shouldn't lose much sleep.

Hard on for him with the window? Hell, he should have been parked.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Instead of everyone acting like lawyers and accusing this person or that person why not come up with ideals how to fix the problem heres my take on it dirt late models have 28 gallon fuel cells full of fuel it would weigh 174 lbs so if late mode with driver after race has to weigh 2300 lbs why not just weigh them before the race and make it a minimum 2550 lbs with fuel and driver as long as there legal before the race is all that should matter for chemical altered tire hoosier needs to figure out detector you put on valves stem to censor chemicals something on the path of a cops breathalyzer test if someone can create a breathalyzer test i know they can create chemical analyzers test from the air thats in the tire itself if we can send a space shuttle to the moon we can do this

Weigh the car before the race? That will result in a lot of lead shot on the track! LOL

[Cardirt0]

Weigh the car before the race? That will result in a lot of lead shot on the track! LOL

Read post 9 that will not work if they do it my way...

[Cardirt0]

NASCAR pre weigh the car and the end of race weigh the car must be the same....

[buster83]

hell just give a bigger and better right rear tire.

[Bubstr]

I have pump a Tire up to 90 pounds of air and let it set for a hour to get 1in taller tire.. I have had one Pop you dont want too be next too it when it does it could kill you.. This will also change the tire..Rubber pull out changes it....
Got a 20 Tire want a 30.. Heat the tire up let it cool.. heat the tire up let it cool ..Cheat it got it were you want it.. No heat the tire up let it cool. Cheak it. Done... Grind it Tire says 20 but its a 30...

Your right Cardirt, and you blow it up and put it on the hot tin roof, it ill grow bigger and faster. The point is, not how you got there but if everyone is even when the race is run. People make cages to blow them tires up that far. I lost a friend to a two piece rim and high air pressure back in the 60s.

[Bubstr]

hell just give a bigger and better right rear tire.

That seems like the easy answer but over the year they have given a bigger tire several times and took it away once. Racers just build more HP and use them up.

[Cardirt0]

That seems like the easy answer but over the year they have given a bigger tire several times and took it away once. Racers just build more HP and use them up.

As Racers got smarter the car cost more then Hi tec came in.. and cars cost more.. Make bigger tire add HP Cost more..You do this they do that Cost more...I think its time to do away with Hi Tec.. Lets just make a Plan race car.. and go racing Out law all this Hi tec... NASCAR 1/2 mil bucks now...for 1 car...

[Bubstr]

If the rules stay the way they are now, I would suggest, when buying a tire, stop and cut two samples. bag and label them. Give one to the tire seller and keep one. If you get caught with a illegal tire, them samples must match along with the illegal sample you got caught with. That cuts it pretty clear. You doped tires or didn't and tire guy sold you them. This makes a A B A comparison. Now the tire dopers won't do this, because they can't say, I didn't know.

[a25rjr]

Here is the deal. Some say certain teams can get tires that are special as in stagger and how they punch for the same compound. I believe it. I have seen it in go kart racing. You could get a soft compound that punched harder that the rest. Usually a older tire. Some of the chemicals have evaporated and gives you a tire in between a soft and medium. Sometimes there are harder compounds that punch softer than standard. These guys say it isn't cheating, but they have access to a tire that can only be obtained by juicing or special deals at the tire store. That makes them illegal and one of the reasons that lead people to be in favor of doping tires to make a legal playing field.

If the tire store is handing them out, they are handing them to special customers and the special customers know it. It's not something that gets handed out by mistake, very often.

Anytime you dope or get very agressive grooving, sypeing and needling it changes what the tire punches, (hardness). It determines flexibility, how heat builds up or dissipates, even if grooves keep a edge. Determine a narrow score for punching and everything outside that is illegal. Let them dope. On top of that, the health related chemicals should be banned. These are usually in the solvent family of chemicals, some in the acidic group, but should be able to test for individual chemicals very easy. But does anyone think Dawn dish soap is dangerous? Is fish oil in WD40? Fish don't think so. You will catch more fish if you squirt the worm with it.

The main thing is to be above board and get rid of these vague rules. Black and white, clear and concise will fix the problem. If you run a tire with this in it, You are a cheater, put people at a health risk and you are banned. If you punch wrong, you lose. Track doesn't care why. It is right or wrong. Punch them as they get weighed on that track scale, after the race, that is always correct, no matter what the weight says.

In my area, south Ga/north FL, we run under a punch rule only. The tracks have realized theres no affordable accurate way to control prepping. However, there is quite a bit of difference when using different durometers and the ones using them.

No 2 problem is this....Hoosier has a problem keeping the batches consistent. Case in point. during the middle of our prepping controversy in our area, Bubba from BRP, claimed he had purchased a $5000 sniffer and was determined to stop everyone from prepping their tires. My team had purchased a new set for an upcoming local show. On the pit lane, the techman came and punched our tires and claimed us illegal and to return to our pit. I motioned for our driver to drive to the other side of the pits and enter the track in order to make our heat race. So he does and runs the heat race and returns to our pit. I then go and get bubba and tell him our story. Nine times out of 10, I would have prepped our tires, but not this time fearing we would get caught with this "new" sniffer. Bubba himself punched our tires and got a 42 reading (our rule was 44). We then went to his new tires and he punched 42 again. He then called an emergency drivers meeting and changed the rule. A lot has been said about Bubba, but I gained a lot of respect for him on how he handled the situation. A punch rule can work as long as there is a little bit of tolerance.

btw.....no one to my knowledge has seen his $5000 sniffer! LOL

[Bubstr]

As Racers got smarter the car cost more then Hi tec came in.. and cars cost more.. Make bigger tire add HP Cost more..You do this they do that Cost more...I think its time to do away with Hi Tec.. Lets just make a Plan race car.. and go racing Out law all this Hi tec... NASCAR 1/2 mil bucks now...for 1 car...

You may have something with the outlawing high tech. This started a long time ago. My first crew job in the 50s was a midget. Owner said then, Curtis Craft and Offy ruined midget racing. He as talking about high tech of the day. Still he made his own special pistons, Injection parts and turned down torsion bars and made his own spindles. I guess his high tech was being trumped by better high tech.

I don't think there is any fix to these high tech wars. When they try to limit the tech, it ruins the racing like NASCAR or ASA. The ones everyone says Ho Hum to. It will go the route of Champ cars and Midgets, from premiere sports to hobby races and the new best thing will arrive. You and I have seen this. Remember when midgets and old Flathead mods where king? Then it was small block Chevy mods, then late model stocks, then modified lm stocks then wings then no wings. What will be next is anyone's call. I don't think it will be a limited NASCAR type LM. For sure not a crate. The IMCA mods where a anti- tech group to start, but over the years caved to the sponsorship contingency money. One thing is for sure, we can't go to the salvage yard and get our parts to build a competitive LM any more. What we need is a class everyone can afford and everyone wants to watch.

[Cardirt0]

If the rules stay the way they are now, I would suggest, when buying a tire, stop and cut two samples. bag and label them. Give one to the tire seller and keep one. If you get caught with a illegal tire, them samples must match along with the illegal sample you got caught with. That cuts it pretty clear. You doped tires or didn't and tire guy sold you them. This makes a A B A comparison. Now the tire dopers won't do this, because they can't say, I didn't know.

Read post 10 and then add too that what you have said.. Cant be in a bag must be in a sealed lab jar when it is sold.... Then you can add them too the race tracks samples...Bubstr now you have a fool proof plan....

[Cardirt0]

You may have something with the outlawing high tech. This started a long time ago. My first crew job in the 50s was a midget. Owner said then, Curtis Craft and Offy ruined midget racing. He as talking about high tech of the day. Still he made his own special pistons, Injection parts and turned down torsion bars and made his own spindles. I guess his high tech was being trumped by better high tech.

I don't think there is any fix to these high tech wars. When they try to limit the tech, it ruins the racing like NASCAR or ASA. The ones everyone says Ho Hum to. It will go the route of Champ cars and Midgets, from premiere sports to hobby races and the new best thing will arrive. You and I have seen this. Remember when midgets and old Flathead mods where king? Then it was small block Chevy mods, then late model stocks, then modified lm stocks then wings then no wings. What will be next is anyone's call. I don't think it will be a limited NASCAR type LM. For sure not a crate. The IMCA mods where a anti- tech group to start, but over the years caved to the sponsorship contingency money. One thing is for sure, we can't go to the salvage yard and get our parts to build a competitive LM any more. What we need is a class everyone can afford and everyone wants to watch.

Yea Hard too go back once you get there .. But 5 states do it this way.. 4 states do it that way and.Its not working. We just got to hope it all works out .. I think we love a dieing sport.... I think in 5 years all Super late M will be run by racing groups.. and will be gone from all the Home tracks...and Some of the small tracks will be Farm land or houses..

[over4T]

On the over inflating tires to get an inch or two taller mentioned by cardirt0 it brings back too many bad memories from this practice over the years. 1) My grandfather had a tire recapping business over 50 years ago when I was a kid and I saw more than one explosion of truck tires, one of which darn near killed an emplyoyee. 2) Hanging around a gas station where a buddy worked in the early '60s I watched him using a tire machine to repair and remount a tire. When it wouldn't bead over inflating it resulted in it blowing the clamp off the machine and bouncing it off the roof of the service station, probably 15-20 feet tall. Luckily none of us were hurt but hia boss wasn't too happy about the dent and tire ring on the ceiling the next morning. 3) At Silver Dollar Speedway in Chico, CA a couple of years ago a young sprint car racer was killed when a tire he was mounting blew up due to excessive pressure. Sadly this isn't an isolated case I've been mounting our race tires for nearly 60 years, 3 just yesterday, and am still nervous when I even approach the recommend max and I never exceed it. Maybe if Hoosier tires ever rolled out what their chalk marks say they will this practice would stop. BE CAREFUL guys.

[Enigma41]

why not just weigh them before the race and make it a minimum 2550 lbs with fuel and driver...
Bill Elliott had a solution for this in the 80's. Awesome Bill rigged his car with lead shot he could release once he was on the speedway, which gave him a huge weight advantage.... Weighing after is better, just make sure the scales are accurate and fair.


for chemical altered tire hoosier needs to figure out detector you put on valves stem to censor chemicals something on the path of a cops breathalyzer test..
They have sniffers that have been used to detect chemicals inside the tire and on the surface.

[Cardirt0]

Bill Elliott had a solution for this in the 80's. Awesome Bill rigged his car with lead shot he could release once he was on the speedway, which gave him a huge weight advantage.... Weighing after is better, just make sure the scales are accurate and fair.

It take 30 sec to scale a car even if you are slow at doing it ..do it Be for and after Problem over...

[Enigma41]

NASCAR pre weigh the car and the end of race weigh the car must be the same....


It take 30 sec to scale a car even if you are slow at doing it ..do it Be for and after Problem over...

Please explain how car can weigh the same before and after a race? We using magic fuel?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

It take 30 sec to scale a car even if you are slow at doing it ..do it Be for and after Problem over...

Why do we honestly care about the weight before the race? We haven't for 6 decades.

[Cardirt0]

Please explain how car can weigh the same before and after a race? We using magic fuel?

Well If you take the Time too read all post in 3 of the Theads.. BE FOR you post.. You would see were I have posted how that would work.. Nascar makes them have a full tank of gas when they do it.. Go read the Posts on this and then you will see.. How I would do it for dirt cars...

[a25rjr]

Well If you take the Time too read all post in 3 of the Theads.. BE FOR you post.. You would see were I have posted how that would work.. Nascar makes them have a full tank of gas when they do it.. Go read the Posts on this and then you will see.. How I would do it for dirt cars...

That wouldn't work! Theres a ton of similar looking liquid chemicals that are 60% heavier than race fuel! Its already been used at some big asphalt races!

[zach51]

NOBODY CARES ABOUT NASCAR CARDIRT.....Jesus, I mean you mention Nascar in every post. Go to a Nascar forum.

[Cardirt0]

Why do we honestly care about the weight before the race? We haven't for 6 decades.

And now we have a Law suit for over 7 million bucks .. Car must be over be for the race too prove it is at weight .. so they can race .. after to prove that they did not change it...

[Cardirt0]

NOBODY CARES ABOUT NASCAR CARDIRT.....Jesus, I mean you mention Nascar in every post. Go to a Nascar forum.

No i dont You jump on me for a few posts cause I.. O i will not say it for you...use there Name.. You dont like it Just skip over my posts ... See how easy that is ...

[Cardirt0]

That wouldn't work! Theres a ton of similar looking liquid chemicals that are 60% heavier than race fuel! Its already been used at some big asphalt races!

but only 2 can be used in a Late model by rules...
add
1 is 6.037 pounds and the other is 6.584 pounds a Gallon

[luke81]

I totally don't understand why anyone cares about the before race weight. Weigh it after, this is the rule and you're under means you're out. It's not hard to figure out. As for tires, set a punch rule and that's it. This whole chasing chemicals thing is never going to work out. Hell Hoosier can't even produce a consistent tire, so how are they supposed to have a control sample to work with?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

And now we have a Law suit for over 7 million bucks .. Car must be over be for the race too prove it is at weight .. so they can race .. after to prove that they did not change it...

Just because someone had the gall to waste time with a frivolous lawsuit, it doesn't mean the world has changed. Or that the old common sense is now wrong.

[Cardirt0]

Just because someone had the gall to waste time with a frivolous lawsuit, it doesn't mean the world has changed. Or that the old common sense is now wrong.

Yea you are right .. till 2 3 4 5 6 Law suit.... then Common sense just went out the Window..
add
It only frivolous if they Lose...

[Clayton_Wetter]

First I am NOT a Bloomquist fan.
IMO WRG/WoO/UMP have had it out for Bloomquist since he quit their "Dirty Dozen". Wasn't soon after that the "incidents" started....

I believe you are really on to something there. The real cheating may be coming from those organizations themselves. I certainly would not trust a tire sample out of my site period of those people. They can MAKE it illegal and get away with it.

This whole deal is making lose interest in the sport.

[Cardirt0]

I totally don't understand why anyone cares about the before race weight. Weigh it after, this is the rule and you're under means you're out. It's not hard to figure out. As for tires, set a punch rule and that's it. This whole chasing chemicals thing is never going to work out. Hell Hoosier can't even produce a consistent tire, so how are they supposed to have a control sample to work with?

Going too make this a simple as I can If you weigh the car be for the race thats says you are good too go..
After the race you must weigh the same.. But you used Fuel so you ether put the Fuel back in the car or check too see how much fuel was used.. add that weigh back too car that was uesd ... NOW NO ONE CAN SUE....

[Cardirt0]

I totally don't understand why anyone cares about the before race weight. Weigh it after, this is the rule and you're under means you're out. It's not hard to figure out. As for tires, set a punch rule and that's it. This whole chasing chemicals thing is never going to work out. Hell Hoosier can't even produce a consistent tire, so how are they supposed to have a control sample to work with?

On the Tires I have NO way for them too fix that...Thats over me...

[Clayton_Wetter]

if you can't follow the rules what would you expect the tire rules sounds good the weight rule no that is basically fuel burn off limits what lucas and some southern series do

It's time to put a sock in it Litey. You DO NOT KNOW if they followed the rules or not. All you care about is your guy never cheats and anyone you personally dislike is a cheater. Now either you start taking an objective view and quit making accusations that you have NOTHING to back up and prove, or I suggest EVERYBODY on 4M put you on their IGNORE LIST!!!! This hate campaign needs to stop. You already ended any credibility when you gave BShepp a pass just because in your opinion he is a good kid.

You are not fit to even serve on a jury let alone be allowed on a sidewalk! :)

[Clayton_Wetter]

Here is the deal. Some say certain teams can get tires that are special as in stagger and how they punch for the same compound. I believe it. I have seen it in go kart racing. You could get a soft compound that punched harder that the rest. Usually a older tire. Some of the chemicals have evaporated and gives you a tire in between a soft and medium. Sometimes there are harder compounds that punch softer than standard. These guys say it isn't cheating, but they have access to a tire that can only be obtained by juicing or special deals at the tire store. That makes them illegal and one of the reasons that lead people to be in favor of doping tires to make a legal playing field.

If the tire store is handing them out, they are handing them to special customers and the special customers know it. It's not something that gets handed out by mistake, very often.

Anytime you dope or get very agressive grooving, sypeing and needling it changes what the tire punches, (hardness). It determines flexibility, how heat builds up or dissipates, even if grooves keep a edge. Determine a narrow score for punching and everything outside that is illegal. Let them dope. On top of that, the health related chemicals should be banned. These are usually in the solvent family of chemicals, some in the acidic group, but should be able to test for individual chemicals very easy. But does anyone think Dawn dish soap is dangerous? Is fish oil in WD40? Fish don't think so. You will catch more fish if you squirt the worm with it.

The main thing is to be above board and get rid of these vague rules. Black and white, clear and concise will fix the problem. If you run a tire with this in it, You are a cheater, put people at a health risk and you are banned. If you punch wrong, you lose. Track doesn't care why. It is right or wrong. Punch them as they get weighed on that track scale, after the race, that is always correct, no matter what the weight says.

Sadly I believe you are right. I was told by a driver one time that went to a tire trailer to pick up a couple of tires that were supposed to be all the same, but was stopped because they were reserved for another driver, I won't mention who it was other than say it was not Bloomquist. That kind of stuff happened a lot in the late 80's and early 90's and probably never has stopped.

A lot of the cheating goes on because when you are on top and someone else finds a cheating trick then the guy on top winds up doing the same to try to stay on top.

Tire manufacturers can be a source of the cheating as it turns out.

[Cardirt0]

It's time to put a sock in it Litey. You DO NOT KNOW if they followed the rules or not. All you care about is your guy never cheats and anyone you personally dislike is a cheater. Now either you start taking an objective view and quit making accusations that you have NOTHING to back up and prove, or I suggest EVERYBODY on 4M put you on their IGNORE LIST!!!! This hate campaign needs to stop. You already ended any credibility when you gave BShepp a pass just because in your opinion he is a good kid.

You are not fit to even serve on a jury let alone be allowed on a sidewalk! :)

Here Here..... NO one is right or Wrong now till the Big law man says so....

[Clayton_Wetter]

Hard on for him with the window? Hell, he should have been parked.

For what? Was it in the rule book? No.

[Cardirt0]

Sadly I believe you are right. I was told by a driver one time that went to a tire trailer to pick up a couple of tires that were supposed to be all the same, but was stopped because they were reserved for another driver, I won't mention who it was other than say it was not Bloomquist. That kind of stuff happened a lot in the late 80's and early 90's and probably never has stopped.

A lot of the cheating goes on because when you are on top and someone else finds a cheating trick then the guy on top winds up doing the same to try to stay on top.

Tire manufacturers can be a source of the cheating as it turns out.
I was speaking too a driver one day and he said to a crew member go get a 40 for me tell him its for me...I go,,You got a tire deal he said yea,I asked,,, How much you save,, He said there the same price...Now I may get it....You may have something there...

[jetwind]

Just because someone had the gall to waste time with a frivolous lawsuit, it doesn't mean the world has changed. Or that the old common sense is now wrong.

what are u talking about are u the judge how do u know that it is not good suit use your common sense master blaster

[1dartman]

at Pennsboro one year, saw a car cross the scales and then pulled on the track and stopped on the backstretch. A crew guy who had to have weighed 180 climbed out from under the car. If you weighed before the race, there would be all kinds of tricks being played.

[Cardirt0]

It's time to put a sock in it Litey. You DO NOT KNOW if they followed the rules or not. All you care about is your guy never cheats and anyone you personally dislike is a cheater. Now either you start taking an objective view and quit making accusations that you have NOTHING to back up and prove, or I suggest EVERYBODY on 4M put you on their IGNORE LIST!!!! This hate campaign needs to stop. You already ended any credibility when you gave BShepp a pass just because in your opinion he is a good kid.

You are not fit to even serve on a jury let alone be allowed on a sidewalk! :)

Wetter you may have something there if 40 of us just Turned him off (ignore) Man be so nice.......

[Clayton_Wetter]

Maybe we should take it too a vote! All for putting old fag on their ignore list please say I !!!! :)

[Cardirt0]

at Pennsboro one year, saw a car cross the scales and then pulled on the track and stopped on the backstretch. A crew guy who had to have weighed 180 climbed out from under the car. If you weighed before the race, there would be all kinds of tricks being played.

Thats why you do it be for and after a race.. 180 lite they know he removed someone or something... .LOL

[a25rjr]

maybe we should take it too a vote! All for putting old fag on their ignore list please say i !!!! :)

iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii !!!!!!! :)

[Cardirt0]

Maybe we should take it too a vote! All for putting old fag on their ignore list please say I !!!! :)

Do a post all to it Own that way we dont over ride this one with it...

[Clayton_Wetter]

There's something about having a village idiot around to poke at and get a good laugh at, though at times. Would losing an idiot make 4M a better place.

1. YES
2. HELL YES
3. NO
4. NO OPINION

[Cardirt0]

Clayton Make a New Thread for it Dont let help him mess up this one for Him...

[Clayton_Wetter]

Do a post all to it Own that way we dont over ride this one with it...

I put a thread on the Tailgate section, so we can go there.

Wouldn't want to upset the good people that don't like ANYTHING but dirt gossip in this section. lol

[Cardirt0]

Tailgate I never been there... LOL good chance most on here never been there