Jackie Boggs nailed for tires not meeting benchmark

[wfo2007]

Boggs win at Atomic on 8/27 was DQ'd for his tire sample failing to meet benchmarks.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1245068268851376&id=475978015760409

[wfo2007]

2 week suspension and loss of points and money.

Nice to see all sanctions are standardizing penalties, lol.

[mopar92]

Time to start posting what's actually in it, rather than pass or fail.

[ClampedUp]

Dang if this were Bloomquist there'd be 30 pages on this post and 20 new threads made already!
Crickets.........

[71PRPFan]

"Didn't meet the benchmark"

[Josh Bayko]

Time to start posting what's actually in it, rather than pass or fail.

Why? it's not like some cheating is better than other cheating or some sh*t. You either pass or fail. There's no gray area.

[bleedsbluer2]

Maybe series and drivers should just switch to American racer tires until hoosier gets this figured out

[gorj]

Need to get a "referee" sample from the same tires and have a different lab test bench marks. See if all the samples compare.

[ClampedUp]

Why? it's not like some cheating is better than other cheating or some sh*t. You either pass or fail. There's no gray area.

See that's where we disagree highly...
I feel it should be made known for all to see what was added/used or in the case of the 5 other drivers what was missing that made the tire/s miss the "bench mark". Why should that be kept a secret??
That's like a state cop pulling you over for speeding and handing you a ticket and you ask him how fast you were going and he tells you don't worry about it the radar gun said you were speeding that's all you need to know.

[Josh Bayko]

See that's where we disagree highly...
I feel it should be made known for all to see what was added/used or in the case of the 5 other drivers what was missing that made the tire/s miss the "bench mark". Why should that be kept a secret??
That's like a state cop pulling you over for speeding and handing you a ticket and you ask him how fast you were going and he tells you don't worry about it the radar gun said you were speeding that's all you need to know.

Apples to oranges.

The racers do find out, hence the lawsuit. There's no reason the fans have to.

[Dirt Draggin]

Apples to oranges. The racers do find out, hence the lawsuit. There's no reason the fans have to.Excellent.........

[Clayton_Wetter]

Very vague answer. Failed the benchmark?

WHY???

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Apples to oranges.

The racers do find out, hence the lawsuit. There's no reason the fans have to.

I haven't found out yet.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I can't believe he ran a 1300 on that track that night. Maybe I know why now.

[DirtWv77]

I agree that these labs could do a better job explaining these results for the fans, but the fact of the matter is, these tests are not for the fans. However, I don't see it necessary to start the everlasting tire lab conspiracy, because you know what? I've seen A LOT of passing results from that lab, and it just so happens, that this time someone failed. Blue Ridge Lab appears to do a lot of testing for numerous sanctions and there for I'm one to put good faith in their work, but the age old argument on "finding another lab" as I've heard people say/write... I don't think people realize what these sanctions are suddenly spending on Tire Tests each year (especially the smaller sanctions). 9/10 come back just fine, but it just appears that this time, someone was caught.

[Centeroff]

Remember when Jackie won the Lucas show at Portsmouth?? Scott was long gone a late caution came out and Jackie came from 3rd or 4th on top to seal the deal. That answered my suspicion

[Clayton_Wetter]

I agree that these labs could do a better job explaining these results for the fans, but the fact of the matter is, these tests are not for the fans. However, I don't see it necessary to start the everlasting tire lab conspiracy, because you know what? I've seen A LOT of passing results from that lab, and it just so happens, that this time someone failed. Blue Ridge Lab appears to do a lot of testing for numerous sanctions and there for I'm one to put good faith in their work, but the age old argument on "finding another lab" as I've heard people say/write... I don't think people realize what these sanctions are suddenly spending on Tire Tests each year (especially the smaller sanctions). 9/10 come back just fine, but it just appears that this time, someone was caught.

If a driver or team really believes that the tires are legal then they should maybe foot the bill for retesting them elsewhere, and if then found legal be re-embersed their money for the testing.

Then the sanctioning body might say, "best two out of three"?

[billetbirdcage]

There is a reason (or at least a rumored reason) tires are missing something thus illegal, anyone noticed it's never a hard tire, LMAO

[ClampedUp]

I agree that these labs could do a better job explaining these results for the fans, but the fact of the matter is, these tests are not for the fans. However, I don't see it necessary to start the everlasting tire lab conspiracy, because you know what? I've seen A LOT of passing results from that lab, and it just so happens, that this time someone failed. Blue Ridge Lab appears to do a lot of testing for numerous sanctions and there for I'm one to put good faith in their work, but the age old argument on "finding another lab" as I've heard people say/write... I don't think people realize what these sanctions are suddenly spending on Tire Tests each year (especially the smaller sanctions). 9/10 come back just fine, but it just appears that this time, someone was caught.

No doubt the lab is doing its job to the highest standards. But, those standards are only as good as the "bench mark" sample they are given by the tire companies.
If XYZ tire company gives them the "bench mark" sample when the races start at the beginning of the season are they that confident in their quality controls and material traceability that every batch of tires are exactly the same every time??
Or is a new "bench mark" sample submitted after every batch just in case there may have been some differences in materials or production??
What if Joe Racer has left over tires he bought a year ago are they still going to match the current "bench marks"??

[Cardirt0]

I agree that these labs could do a better job explaining these results for the fans, but the fact of the matter is, these tests are not for the fans. However, I don't see it necessary to start the everlasting tire lab conspiracy, because you know what? I've seen A LOT of passing results from that lab, and it just so happens, that this time someone failed. Blue Ridge Lab appears to do a lot of testing for numerous sanctions and there for I'm one to put good faith in their work, but the age old argument on "finding another lab" as I've heard people say/write... I don't think people realize what these sanctions are suddenly spending on Tire Tests each year (especially the smaller sanctions). 9/10 come back just fine, but it just appears that this time, someone was caught.

Will I use too have Faith in the FBI and we all know who Did not go to Jail.. Just this year...HC ring a bell...

[Mudweiser]

Very vague answer. Failed the benchmark?

WHY???

Probably scuffed the numbers off of the side

[ptown]

2 week suspension and loss of points and money.

That will teach him a lesson....lol

[slmcrewchief99]

Most all of us that get checked know it Billet, but the majority on here don't understand or just don't care. They just want to beat up the tracks, the promoters, the tire dealer, UPS on shipping, the labs, and the other racers for "soiling" the track. They are blaming everyone EXCEPT the teams that get caught with an illegal tire. The teams that have them come back "missing" something from the benchmark, need to quit putting their tires in an oven before the mount them and go race. Everyone is looking for an edge. Preheating tires may give you 1 but it's messing with the tire just like adding tire softener. Adding something or taking away something. It still won't meet the benchmark either way. Therefore the tire is illegal.....

[mopar92]

Why? it's not like some cheating is better than other cheating or some sh*t. You either pass or fail. There's no gray area.
So the tech guy disqualifies you. Says your engine didn't pass. You'd be happy with that ? That doesn't make sense. That's not how our society judicial or legal system works. You need know exactly what you are being accused and disqualified from. Nothing hidden.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Dang if this were Bloomquist there'd be 30 pages on this post and 20 new threads made already!
Crickets.........

And 15 brand new user names

[Barbecueboy]

Apples to oranges.

The racers do find out, hence the lawsuit. There's no reason the fans have to.

Why is there no reason for the fans to know?

Wouldn't it lend itself to a little more transparency on the whole deal........if everything is on the up and up and all.

If nothing else it would be an excellent pr move for the series involved.......show the fans the reasons they had to wait a week for the actual race results.

[Cardirt0]

I pay too get in too see the driver that they say will not be there.. I have a right too know...cause if he is not there I dont go, and why he is not there..There Is NO reason not too tell me why...The Gov. Lies too us all the time .. And I am tired of that too....

[Barbecueboy]

Most all of us that get checked know it Billet, but the majority on here don't understand or just don't care. They just want to beat up the tracks, the promoters, the tire dealer, UPS on shipping, the labs, and the other racers for "soiling" the track. They are blaming everyone EXCEPT the teams that get caught with an illegal tire. The teams that have them come back "missing" something from the benchmark, need to quit putting their tires in an oven before the mount them and go race. Everyone is looking for an edge. Preheating tires may give you 1 but it's messing with the tire just like adding tire softener. Adding something or taking away something. It still won't meet the benchmark either way. Therefore the tire is illegal.....

Help me out on this chief........guy pre heats his tires before bolting them on and they come back missing something after the race.

In theory, Wouldn't an unbaked tire be missing something from all the heat cycles it goes through during a long race anyway?.......we don't cheat tires like all you sorry DLM guys supposedly do , so I'm sorry if the question appears a bit sophomoric.😇

[dirtdobber45]

I worked in a lab at a company that made wheels for GM. We would go out and take a sample out of each casting machine every eight hours and out of each furnace every two hours. We would analyze each sample. There were benchmarks but most of the time each sample was a little different than the last. As long as they were inside said benchmarks nothing was said. But some of the alloys were more important than others. If one of the less important alloys was not hitting the standard it was just brushed off from the front office and nothing was said. Now what if that has happened at Hoosier and now its come back to haunt them? Do you think that they would admit to that? I think not.

[dirtdobber45]

Why is there no reason for the fans to know?Wouldn't it lend itself to a little more transparency on the whole deal........if everything is on the up and up and all.If nothing else it would be an excellent pr move for the series involved.......show the fans the reasons they had to wait a week for the actual race results.Well said as usual BBQ. I believe we have the right to know.

[Barbecueboy]

Most all of us that get checked know it Billet, but the majority on here don't understand or just don't care. They just want to beat up the tracks, the promoters, the tire dealer, UPS on shipping, the labs, and the other racers for "soiling" the track. They are blaming everyone EXCEPT the teams that get caught with an illegal tire. The teams that have them come back "missing" something from the benchmark, need to quit putting their tires in an oven before the mount them and go race. Everyone is looking for an edge. Preheating tires may give you 1 but it's messing with the tire just like adding tire softener. Adding something or taking away something. It still won't meet the benchmark either way. Therefore the tire is illegal.....

I don't think anybody here doesn't think tire cheating goes on in some camps......and I don't think anybody here doesn't think some of those eldora guys did in fact cheat em up.

The camel back breaker was who and how many and then the whole benchmark thing.....this same lab has been involved with bad benchmark rulings before, so it's not like it's something new.

Inspectors are not above being inspected themselves..........which is really all this suit is about.

Wrg, eldora says one thing, drivers say another...........the impass will be settled by a fair and impartial process that has no vested interest on one side or the other.

[Barbecueboy]

And 15 brand new user names

Great for a lol.........

[Bob Hubbard]

Bloomer said * de-facing * .....Which mean the number on the tire doesn't match the contents .... I heard this theory that someone is making tires that looks like a legal tire with the correct makings .... So its not that racers are juicing a tire after they get it ....Its a better tire already ....

[71PRPFan]

Remember when Jackie won the Lucas show at Portsmouth?? Scott was long gone a late caution came out and Jackie came from 3rd or 4th on top to seal the deal. That answered my suspicion

Uhm he ran 3rd the whole race. Bloomer was losing fuel pressure that weekend and Francis rolled into third with a flat tire. Scott even said so

[Barbecueboy]

I worked in a lab at a company that made wheels for GM. We would go out and take a sample out of each casting machine every eight hours and out of each furnace every two hours. We would analyze each sample. There were benchmarks but most of the time each sample was a little different than the last. As long as they were inside said benchmarks nothing was said. But some of the alloys were more important than others. If one of the less important alloys was not hitting the standard it was just brushed off from the front office and nothing was said. Now what if that has happened at Hoosier and now its come back to haunt them? Do you think that they would admit to that? I think not.

I'm sure every Hoosier plant in the world has the strictest of benchmarks and none of them are ever compromised in any way......especially China.....everybody knows of their stellar quality control checks and balances.

Your point is valid dobber.........not sure if that's what happened in this deal or not but it certainly casts doubt on the process when all they are looking for is if it passed a benchmark or not.

Reminds me of the old computer science term....." Garbage in, garbage out"

[Barbecueboy]

Uhm he ran 3rd the whole race. Bloomer was losing fuel pressure that weekend and Francis rolled into third with a flat tire. Scott even said so

Never ever bring facts or logic into a 4m discussion on tires............you will be relegated to tin foil hat status.

[Barbecueboy]

Bloomer said * de-facing * .....Which mean the number on the tire doesn't match the contents .... I heard this theory that someone is making tires that looks like a legal tire with the correct makings .... So its not that racers are juicing a tire after they get it ....Its a better tire already ....

Bootleg hoosiers??? Interesting?

Even I hadn't heard that one yet........boy wouldn't that just be a Pandora's box of treasures if proven to be true.

[kidrock]

Most all of us that get checked know it Billet, but the majority on here don't understand or just don't care. They just want to beat up the tracks, the promoters, the tire dealer, UPS on shipping, the labs, and the other racers for "soiling" the track. They are blaming everyone EXCEPT the teams that get caught with an illegal tire. The teams that have them come back "missing" something from the benchmark, need to quit putting their tires in an oven before the mount them and go race. Everyone is looking for an edge. Preheating tires may give you 1 but it's messing with the tire just like adding tire softener. Adding something or taking away something. It still won't meet the benchmark either way. Therefore the tire is illegal.....

And there you have it say no more!!!!!!!!

[Cardirt0]

Go stick you hand on the RR right after a 100 lap race..(not a good Thing) let them pull off track and scale then stick your hand just do it.. Why not you will burn your hand.. I mean Blisters on your Hand...Now If heat changes the benchmark..(now MADE up numbers) say you got a tire at 18 be for the race and 18 to 22 is ok..20 laps Yellow, 30 laps yellow,20 laps yellow, 30 laps race over 4 time that tire is hot that it will burn your hand..now if heat lowers the Benchmark that tire is NO good.. How did he cheat...
......
Now If you in a race going hard for 40 laps.. and a yellow come out and its a long one.. The tire glazes over thats what a driver said he calls it..Thats why you see the driver gunning it swaying back and fort trying to burn off the glaze..He says if you treat the tire, It will not glaze over..thats why you see some cars fall back on the restart tire dont hook up...He told me if you see a driver not burning off the tire and then takes off good after each restart there is a 50% his tires are DOPED..The tire will not glaze up if its doped...This is just what i was told By a big name driver ..I will not say his name...

[a25rjr]

Most all of us that get checked know it Billet, but the majority on here don't understand or just don't care. They just want to beat up the tracks, the promoters, the tire dealer, UPS on shipping, the labs, and the other racers for "soiling" the track. They are blaming everyone EXCEPT the teams that get caught with an illegal tire. The teams that have them come back "missing" something from the benchmark, need to quit putting their tires in an oven before the mount them and go race. Everyone is looking for an edge. Preheating tires may give you 1 but it's messing with the tire just like adding tire softener. Adding something or taking away something. It still won't meet the benchmark either way. Therefore the tire is illegal.....

Im with BBCB on this. Ive been prepping tires for the last 15 years. I have a pretty good understanding of chemistry too based on my job. So I don't understand how a test comes back and there are chemical/s missing. There would have to be other chemicals present that made the one deficient.

And lets not forget, we're talking- parts per million. That's a very very small particle size. What range is allowed before its declared illegal? That's what needs to be made public by the Series- how much gray area are they allowing?

[Car Biz]

Bloomer said * de-facing * .....Which mean the number on the tire doesn't match the contents .... I heard this theory that someone is making tires that looks like a legal tire with the correct makings .... So its not that racers are juicing a tire after they get it ....Its a better tire already ....

Purvis did that YEARS ago that is nothing new. Then was grinding the numbers off. When that could not be done anymore then put silicone over the numbers so you could not see the compound or feel the number of the compound after the race was over in the pits or at the scales.

[Barbecueboy]

Im with BBCB on this. Ive been prepping tires for the last 15 years. I have a pretty good understanding of chemistry too based on my job. So I don't understand how a test comes back and there are chemical/s missing. There would have to be other chemicals present that made the one deficient.

And lets not forget, we're talking- parts per million. That's a very very small particle size. What range is allowed before its declared illegal? That's what needs to be made public by the Series- how much gray area are they allowing?

Mine was more a question than anything.........

If baking it would remove something , wouldn't a long run heat cycle do exactly the same thing?

[a25rjr]

Mine was more a question than anything.........

If baking it would remove something , wouldn't a long run heat cycle do exactly the same thing?

You would think......We generally only heat our tires to 90-110 degrees in our hotbox/rotisserie.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Mine was more a question than anything.........

If baking it would remove something , wouldn't a long run heat cycle do exactly the same thing?
Not necessarily. On the track, maybe it gets to 220 degrees. What if you bake at 400? Different compounds have different vaporization temps.

[dirtdobber45]

Mine was more a question than anything.........If baking it would remove something , wouldn't a long run heat cycle do exactly the same thing?
You would think......We generally only heat our tires to 90-110 degrees in our hotbox/rotisserie.Wouldnt it just harden it like a scuff tire?

[billetbirdcage]

Mine was more a question than anything.........

If baking it would remove something , wouldn't a long run heat cycle do exactly the same thing?

Not necessarily, just for discussion say it takes 230 degree's for a certain time period to remove a chemical from the tire. Is racing the tire going to get to that temp for that length of time?

Lets say that the chemical "polyjunktire" is the chemical that has been missing. Also say that the range on that chem is between 100 and 300 PPM (parts per million) for the test. So under normal racing conditions the tire might lose say 50 PPM so typically it stays within the range and passes the test. Now Lets say because the soft tire required is borderline on making the distance, guys are baking the tires to harden them up slightly (or whatever the reason you think they may be doing it for) so they can go the distance or not have to save the tires as much over going to the harder tire if that was even a choice or option.


Most all of us that get checked know it Billet, but the majority on here don't understand or just don't care. They just want to beat up the tracks, the promoters, the tire dealer, UPS on shipping, the labs, and the other racers for "soiling" the track. They are blaming everyone EXCEPT the teams that get caught with an illegal tire. The teams that have them come back "missing" something from the benchmark, need to quit putting their tires in an oven before the mount them and go race. Everyone is looking for an edge. Preheating tires may give you 1 but it's messing with the tire just like adding tire softener. Adding something or taking away something. It still won't meet the benchmark either way. Therefore the tire is illegal.....

I was beating around the bush and didn't want to actually say it, LOL. The computer jockey's are so unaware of what is actually going on it's not funny.

[a25rjr]

Not necessarily, just for discussion say it takes 230 degree's for a certain time period to remove a chemical from the tire. Is racing the tire going to get to that temp for that length of time?

Lets say that the chemical "polyjunktire" is the chemical that has been missing. Also say that the range on that chem is between 100 and 300 PPM (parts per million) for the test. So under normal racing conditions the tire might lose say 50 PPM so typically it stays within the range and passes the test. Now Lets say because the soft tire required is borderline on making the distance, guys are baking the tires to harden them up slightly (or whatever the reason you think they may be doing it for) so they can go the distance or not have to save the tires as much over going to the harder tire if that was even a choice or option.



I was beating around the bush and didn't want to actually say it, LOL. The computer jockey's are so unaware of what is actually going on it's not funny.

So you're saying billet, you believe they were just heating them extensively to replicate heat cycles without adding any kind of prep?

[dirtdobber45]

Not necessarily. On the track, maybe it gets to 220 degrees. What if you bake at 400? Different compounds have different vaporization temps.Good point^^^^^

[zeroracing]

I would assume taking temp way up would further vulcanize the rubber and cause it to become harder. I guess it could remove something that causes more glazing over. If that is all it takes shame on hoosier for not taking the one chemical out so our tires will last longer than 20 laps and a caution.

[Cardirt0]

Not necessarily, just for discussion say it takes 230 degree's for a certain time period to remove a chemical from the tire. Is racing the tire going to get to that temp for that length of time?

Lets say that the chemical "polyjunktire" is the chemical that has been missing. Also say that the range on that chem is between 100 and 300 PPM (parts per million) for the test. So under normal racing conditions the tire might lose say 50 PPM so typically it stays within the range and passes the test. Now Lets say because the soft tire required is borderline on making the distance, guys are baking the tires to harden them up slightly (or whatever the reason you think they may be doing it for) so they can go the distance or not have to save the tires as much over going to the harder tire if that was even a choice or option.



I was beating around the bush and didn't want to actually say it, LOL. The computer jockey's are so unaware of what is actually going on it's not funny.

If we dont ask we dont learn..That how you learn, If i say something and you come back and say No No and why. thats Then I learn...

[dirtdobber45]

I would assume taking temp way up would further vulcanize the rubber and cause it to become harder. I guess it could remove something that causes more glazing over. If that is all it takes shame on hoosier for not taking the one chemical out so our tires will last longer than 20 laps and a caution.That so you can buy more tires from them...lol

[rakracing]

believe you guys are on to something, got used American racers from a guy that worked better then new tires and held up better, no they have a oven , also bought wheels with hoosiers on then at a flee market that had the 1100 stamp sanded off and a 1300 section glued in the circle, was a bitch to get off

[blncfn57]

Go stick you hand on the RR right after a 100 lap race..(not a good Thing) let them pull off track and scale then stick your hand just do it.. Why not you will burn your hand.. I mean Blisters on your Hand...Now If heat changes the benchmark..(now MADE up numbers) say you got a tire at 18 be for the race and 18 to 22 is ok..20 laps Yellow, 30 laps yellow,20 laps yellow, 30 laps race over 4 time that tire is hot that it will burn your hand..now if heat lowers the Benchmark that tire is NO good.. How did he cheat...
......
Now If you in a race going hard for 40 laps.. and a yellow come out and its a long one.. The tire glazes over thats what a driver said he calls it..Thats why you see the driver gunning it swaying back and fort trying to burn off the glaze..He says if you treat the tire, It will not glaze over..thats why you see some cars fall back on the restart tire dont hook up...He told me if you see a driver not burning off the tire and then takes off good after each restart there is a 50% his tires are DOPED..The tire will not glaze up if its doped...This is just what i was told By a big name driver ..I will not say his name...

That is my understanding also, the more heat you can keep in the tire under caution, the better the chance of it not glazing over. I was always told to never "cool" the tires off by driving in the wet part of the track under caution, but I've seen it done and the guy fires right back off. That makes me go hmmmm lol

[Cardirt0]

That is my understanding also, the more heat you can keep in the tire under caution, the better the chance of it not glazing over. I was always told to never "cool" the tires off by driving in the wet part of the track under caution, but I've seen it done and the guy fires right back off. That makes me go hmmmm lol

How menny times have we seen a car running a way and the yellow comes out and he gets passed by 3 or 4 cars on restart.. bet its Tire Glaze....

[Krooser]

The test results will be in Hillary's next email dump...

[Cardirt0]

The test results will be in Hillary's next email dump...

LOL thanks Pepsi all over Key board......

[plunks7]

LOL thanks Pepsi all over Key board......

ROFLMAO: I also spilled or spit my drink (water) out. Caught me off guard Krooser!!!!!!

[a25rjr]

The test results will be in Hillary's next email dump...

So, now there will be 2 crooks/liars, whose name starts with an H! :)

[jeffreymo]

We were assured on this very board, just last week, that it was WD-40 that was found in the tires. Old fan even has proof.

[billetbirdcage]

For starters lets be clear on a few things:

1. Anything I post on this is conjecture, rumors, innuendo, personal feelings or possible BS on my part.

2. No one knows if Jackie's tires where missing the chemical, could been regular doping or whatever and may not apply to what is being talked about

3. Is taking the chemical out of the tire the benefit or a side effect of possibly heating the tires for whatever purpose.

4. If any of this is in fact true, how much of this is due to the tire rules leaning towards too soft a tire that will last for how hard the cars can be driven now. Then how much is leaning towards softer tires so guys go thru more of them $$.

5. If the cars need slowed down, why are we still using softer tires? Seems more of the tire doping issue isn't about making the tires softer (IE a hard tire rule) but a conditioner/treatment that makes the tire fire differently or makes it last/hold up better.

6. If the rule like the world is 40 RR and 20's other 3 corners and your worried about the RF or LR tire making the distance and you could make those 2 20's act more like a 1425 or 30, why wouldn't you? Sure you could use an older heat cycled tire, but likely it's edges are gone and not like a new tire. Are you even able to harden the tire (again if in fact that is what they are trying to do) by getting it hot enough racing and not destroying the tire doing so.

Again all opinion and no facts

****Names, dates, places and info left out to protect the quilty, LMAO

I'm done you can figure the rest out for yourselves

[old fan]

that is one way and even DAWN soap not saying it throws the benchmark off but does a red flag for concern

[Kyle7117]

Does anyone know how many samples where collected at the Dream?

[Centeroff]

I have personally seen a tire reach 217* degrees. It was a 40 lap day race at Beckley motor speedway. That was roughly 1 minute or so after the feature ended so you could imagine the tire cooled maybe 10-15 degrees in that minute?? Didn't hear much tire doping back in that day which was mid 2000s. Thinking on it, a tire at that temperature would have to absorb any chemical that would be on the track. Oil, fuel, brake fluid, etc etc. I'm not a scientist or an attorney but I would have to give these guys the benefit of the doubt... Lol

[klemmabyna]

Time to start posting what's actually in it, rather than pass or fail.

why?

having been involved in urine testing in a prior career, it doesn't matter.

meet the benchmark or you fail. simple as that.

have a problem? take care of your own chain of custody or the supplier.

our labs were inspected and audited every year to ensure quality and chain of custody compliance so any lawsuit could not challenge the results.

[formercrewguy]

Lets see....who do I believe........A laboratory, with high tech equipment, and no conflict of interest............or a racer.

Derrrrrr.

[a25rjr]

Lets see....who do I believe........A laboratory, with high tech equipment, and no conflict of interest............or a racer.

Derrrrrr.

Or....5 racers with the cahonies to take on the Gestapo! :)

[plunks7]

Lets see....who do I believe........A laboratory, with high tech equipment, and no conflict of interest............or a racer. And 2 different results.

Derrrrrr.

Their I fixed it for you. :)

[zyoung25]

Delmas beat the guy I help on 1300s up there early in the year, but the race was littered with yellows. 1300s never have worked well for us up there.

[roughride]

I have no experience with LM tires, but I do have some experience with mod tires. IF we took a D40(soft) new and slapped it on for a feature, even on a wet tacky track, it would be trashed after 1 feature(worn bad, and edges gone). If however we ran it a few times in a hot lap session and couple of heat races, we could then run it in 2-3 features and win. With the A40, the next hardest tire for mods, if we scuffed it and a race would stay green they would be good. However if there were yellows, you had better make sure to keep it hot and clean or you would slip right up the track on restarts. I am no chemist, but I have heard there are oils in the rubber. Are we removing these oils through the heating of the tire and the heat cycles? Could this be what is making the tires miss the benchmark. The benchmark tire should be a feature ran tire that has gone through similar heat cycles or I don't think it would match.

Also, I think it would be pretty easy to end this tire prep game and even the heat cycle game. I am sure Hoosier is smart enough to put something on the inside wall of the tire that would disappear or change colors with heat or chemical alteration.

[slmcrewchief99]

Believe me or not about pre-heating tires before they run it. I don't care. Some of you ask about how things are happening. You get your questions answered. Again, believe it or not it IS being done. Somebody made a comment about a tire not being labeled right or being "defaced'. Like a 1300 with a 1350 stamp. That has been going on for years. Just a couple of years ago at the Show-Me 100 there was a regional driver that qualified up front and ran 2nd in the Cowboy Classic. Only to be dq'd shortly after. His right front was "defaced".

[JustAddDirt]

Bootleg hoosiers??? Interesting?

Even I hadn't heard that one yet........boy wouldn't that just be a Pandora's box of treasures if proven to be true.

Happened in the mid 1990's here in Indiana.
Rayburn was selling tires marked as a d-55 but they were actually d21's (if I remember right). So if it was happening in the 1990's , it is still probably going on today. Big teams that buy big quantities of tires at one time that are more than likely on Hoosier tire deals. You will get what you want/ order. Hi hard would it be to switch the tire compound die in the mold? Judging by the markings on the tire.... Pretty easy

[a25rjr]

Believe me or not about pre-heating tires before they run it. I don't care. Some of you ask about how things are happening. You get your questions answered. Again, believe it or not it IS being done. Somebody made a comment about a tire not being labeled right or being "defaced'. Like a 1300 with a 1350 stamp. That has been going on for years. Just a couple of years ago at the Show-Me 100 there was a regional driver that qualified up front and ran 2nd in the Cowboy Classic. Only to be dq'd shortly after. His right front was "defaced".

99, are they just heating them only, no prep?

[Barbecueboy]

Believe me or not about pre-heating tires before they run it. I don't care. Some of you ask about how things are happening. You get your questions answered. Again, believe it or not it IS being done. Somebody made a comment about a tire not being labeled right or being "defaced'. Like a 1300 with a 1350 stamp. That has been going on for years. Just a couple of years ago at the Show-Me 100 there was a regional driver that qualified up front and ran 2nd in the Cowboy Classic. Only to be dq'd shortly after. His right front was "defaced".

Thanks for your insights.........most of us appreciate them.

[zeroracing]

Slmcrew, I don't disagree with people cooking them. When we had a large powdercoating oven a local team wanted to cook tires. They were having issues with stagger changing after the first heat cycle and wanted to do a heat cycle before sizing.

Just never thought of it for other use besides size control. Maybe I should have...

[Hovlane]

So does it make a difference if the tire reaches 200 plus degrees in a oven or if it reaches 200 plus degrees on the track or does 200 degree rubber react the same reguardless of how it reaches that temp. ? Now I run a used tire that won't meet the benchmark, DQ me. Don't label me a cheater.

[slmcrewchief99]

Thanks BBQ. a25jr it's kinda like nascar and those guys scuffing tires. Putting a heat cycle on a soft tire can prevent it from blistering. We can all agree a brand new tire is better than a used tire 99% of the time. If you are going to a track that blisters tires, well just put a heat cycle on them before you go. And like zeroracing said about his powdercoating oven. It don't mean the guys are taking them in the house and asking the wife to "cook" tires in the oven. A lot of these guys are engineers. it's pretty easy to fix up something to put tires in and get em to 300, 400, 500 degrees. I have no idea how hot they are getting them or how long but I'm guessing 300 plus. And for what its worth. I'm a commercial Truck Tire salesman for the company that supplies NASCAR. Been pushing rubbers for 31yrs come Oct 10th. I do know quite a bit about the subject. The tires that go through our retread process from work are cured at 240 degrees for 2.5 hours. That's considered a cold cap btw. Hot caps are done over 300 degrees.

And for what its worth. That 20 car that got caught at the NDRL show. He was dq'd cause his tires had been in an oven and didn't meet the benchmark. Not because they were juiced. Exact reason he didn't fight that dq. He didn't have a leg to stand on......

[a25rjr]

Thanks BBQ. a25jr it's kinda like nascar and those guys scuffing tires. Putting a heat cycle on a soft tire can prevent it from blistering. We can all agree a brand new tire is better than a used tire 99% of the time. If you are going to a track that blisters tires, well just put a heat cycle on them before you go. And like zeroracing said about his powdercoating oven. It don't mean the guys are taking them in the house and asking the wife to "cook" tires in the oven. A lot of these guys are engineers. it's pretty easy to fix up something to put tires in and get em to 300, 400, 500 degrees. I have no idea how hot they are getting them or how long but I'm guessing 300 plus. And for what its worth. I'm a commercial Truck Tire salesman for the company that supplies NASCAR. Been pushing rubbers for 31yrs come Oct 10th. I do know quite a bit about the subject. The tires that go through our retread process from work are cured at 240 degrees for 2.5 hours. That's considered a cold cap btw. Hot caps are done over 300 degrees.

And for what its worth. That 20 car that got caught at the NDRL show. He was dq'd cause his tires had been in an oven and didn't meet the benchmark. Not because they were juiced. Exact reason he didn't fight that dq. He didn't have a leg to stand on......

Thanx for the info.....that makes perfect sense why theres chemicals missing! One of my good friends builds the nicest aluminum hot/boxes rotisserie there are, but I don't think his will get that hot. That's very interesting.

[Cardirt0]

If the tire is changing on the race track from heat they have a big problem..Maybe it time that the Tire People must prove the tires they are handing out meet the benchmark..after a race. maybe some one needs too snip a tire be for and after a race. That they get at the track and send it in and see what it says..If it dont make it Then the Tire Co. Is in a world of hurt...

[Cardirt0]

Does someone know what it costs too send a snip of tire too the lab....to be tested

[slmcrewchief99]

Cardirt0, the tires ARE meeting the benchmark after the races. The tires aren't getting hot enough on the track to cause them to fail. The tires would come apart (either blister or actually explode) from that much heat. As long as the tire hasn't been tampered with they will meet the benchmark. That is the problem. Some teams are tampering with the tires and that's why they fail. Again, stop blaming Hoosier, the tracks, the promoters, and the labs. Blame the guys that keep tampering with the tires.

[powerslide]

So does it make a difference if the tire reaches 200 plus degrees in a oven or if it reaches 200 plus degrees on the track or does 200 degree rubber react the same reguardless of how it reaches that temp. ? Now I run a used tire that won't meet the benchmark, DQ me. Don't label me a cheater.

It is different. The edges haven't been burned off and you controlled exactly how hot and how long.

[Bob Hubbard]

Look for Tony's tire sampler guy to be in the 4b's pit this weekend ....

[dirtfanbob]

Thanks BBQ. a25jr it's kinda like nascar and those guys scuffing tires. Putting a heat cycle on a soft tire can prevent it from blistering. We can all agree a brand new tire is better than a used tire 99% of the time. If you are going to a track that blisters tires, well just put a heat cycle on them before you go. And like zeroracing said about his powdercoating oven. It don't mean the guys are taking them in the house and asking the wife to "cook" tires in the oven. A lot of these guys are engineers. it's pretty easy to fix up something to put tires in and get em to 300, 400, 500 degrees. I have no idea how hot they are getting them or how long but I'm guessing 300 plus. And for what its worth. I'm a commercial Truck Tire salesman for the company that supplies NASCAR. Been pushing rubbers for 31yrs come Oct 10th. I do know quite a bit about the subject. The tires that go through our retread process from work are cured at 240 degrees for 2.5 hours. That's considered a cold cap btw. Hot caps are done over 300 degrees.

And for what its worth. That 20 car that got caught at the NDRL show. He was dq'd cause his tires had been in an oven and didn't meet the benchmark. Not because they were juiced. Exact reason he didn't fight that dq. He didn't have a leg to stand on......

That 20 car also was reimbursed by Hoosier for the purse he lost and fines he had to pay because they would not admit fault. That's what non-disclosure agreements are for. You think the big purple monster is actually going to come clean and admit they have a problem when they hold the monopoly on tire deals with 99% of the series and tracks? H!ll no!
Next time anyone with this high and mighty attitude fails a drug test for a job or breathalyzer during a DUI, I'm sure you'll feel cozy at night not knowing why you failed those tests that labeled you an unemployed druggie or drunk driver. Or is that just too logical for 4m

[blncfn57]

How menny times have we seen a car running a way and the yellow comes out and he gets passed by 3 or 4 cars on restart.. bet its Tire Glaze....

We have seen that many times, heck it's happened to me. That's when I was told what I posted. The guys messing with tires are obviously smarter on the subject than most, that's why we see labs involved. It may not be the perfect way to check the tires, but it's the best way at this time.

[TJHTA42]

Well here we go. A tech at american racer expressed his views on this bench mark subject. It is well known that another tire company makes certain tires for certain people and the compound marked on the tire is not the compound that is in that tire. So that means it does not meet the bench mark. Thus it is not chemically treated, just not up to specification for that compound.

[Latemodel59]

According to the legal action the lab has two sets of results for the same tire samples. One that states not a match to benchmark and the other as in order. Same lab, same test sample, same test procedure so why was additional test carried out? My guess was to confirm orginal results which obviously didn't work for anybody involved in this mess. If the series heads had any sense a fine would have been issued no results for the weekend and warned that their teams have clearly done something that proves to be non conclusive for this event. Some type of probation while the series and lab works out what was a actually done they could then issues a statement that it will no longer be allowed with any future unconclussive tests result being met with a ban from series events.

[Barbecueboy]

Well here we go. A tech at american racer expressed his views on this bench mark subject. It is well known that another tire company makes certain tires for certain people and the compound marked on the tire is not the compound that is in that tire. So that means it does not meet the bench mark. Thus it is not chemically treated, just not up to specification for that compound.

Clean get cleaner.....dirty get dirtier.

Going to be interesting to see which side actually needs the grease lightening after this is all said and done.

[bayou tuff]

Hmmmm, Imagine Dirt Racers looking for an edge, who woulda thought it, oh yeah it's been happenin' since the first dirt race at Valley Forge lmao

[Cardirt0]

We have seen that many times, heck it's happened to me. That's when I was told what I posted. The guys messing with tires are obviously smarter on the subject than most, that's why we see labs involved. It may not be the perfect way to check the tires, but it's the best way at this time.

When you lose cause someone "Is Cheating" Saying ITs the best way is not good enuff.. Because the Best way may say they cheated when they did not..And some that did cheat it says they did not...I see this as its a BIG problem and NO one has a anc....to the ? that what makes this so Bad...

I see this as You would not do it .. I would not do it because I like wining Cause I beat you. Because I am better then you that night, and If you beat Me because you were better then me that night.. Well may be 2 other beat us that night because they cheat.. I want them GONE do you...I want Prof they cheated

[Cardirt0]

Hmmmm, Imagine Dirt Racers looking for an edge, who woulda thought it, oh yeah it's been happenin' since the first dirt race at Valley Forge lmao

When I race.. I look for the EDGE but i do it were the rule books does not say you can not do that...If the rule say you cant , then its not a EDGE its CHEATING.. Just cause they been doing it for 10000 years does that make it RIGHT...When now its catching up to us and may hurt Dirt racing beyond repair..
Had to ADD
If you are cheating and not found out .. You are Still Cheating.. Just like if you are speeding down the road just cause the cop dont see you .. You are STILL Speeding and its Still braking the LAW...Some people say If you are not Stopped You are not braking the Law.. WRONG you are breaking the Law you are just not pay a Fine for it...

[FlatTire]

Hoosier can't even make a tire that has a consistent circumference, what makes you think they can provide consistent benchmarks? Maybe they just better send all these tires to the lab and furnish paper work with them BEFORE they sell them. That way the racer knows what he is getting. I wouldn't trust the PURPLE MAFIA either.

And who decides what kind of tolerance is allowed for these lab results when comparing to the benchmark. There is error in every test that needs to be accounted for as well. I did my time in the chemistry lab. I understand how it works.

Its just like forensic science, the non-scientific community accepts it as gospel. I'm glad Bloomer is questioning their test results. Somebody needs to. Black Sunshine seems like the right man for the job.

[Bob Hubbard]

Well here we go. A tech at american racer expressed his views on this bench mark subject. It is well known that another tire company makes certain tires for certain people and the compound marked on the tire is not the compound that is in that tire. So that means it does not meet the bench mark. Thus it is not chemically treated, just not up to specification for that compound.

This is what I heard too .... At some point the truth will trickle down to the fan base ...

[Barbecueboy]

Hoosier can't even make a tire that has a consistent circumference, what makes you think they can provide consistent benchmarks? Maybe they just better send all these tires to the lab and furnish paper work with them BEFORE they sell them. That way the racer knows what he is getting. I wouldn't trust the PURPLE MAFIA either.

And who decides what kind of tolerance is allowed for these lab results when comparing to the benchmark. There is error in every test that needs to be accounted for as well. I did my time in the chemistry lab. I understand how it works.

Its just like forensic science, the non-scientific community accepts it as gospel. I'm glad Bloomer is questioning their test results. Somebody needs to. Black Sunshine seems like the right man for the job.

Welcome to the club.......what size hat do you wear?

And do you prefer the shiny foil side out or the flat side out????

[Snake X3]

I read the first page of the thread but I just can't stomach reading through another 5 pages of tire discussions again so forgive me if this was already mentioned...I don't see the sample results posted on the AMRA website...yet. Any chance this is a hoax?

http://www.amramodified.com/

[Cardirt0]

Hoosier can't even make a tire that has a consistent circumference, what makes you think they can provide consistent benchmarks? Maybe they just better send all these tires to the lab and furnish paper work with them BEFORE they sell them. That way the racer knows what he is getting. I wouldn't trust the PURPLE MAFIA either.

And who decides what kind of tolerance is allowed for these lab results when comparing to the benchmark. There is error in every test that needs to be accounted for as well. I did my time in the chemistry lab. I understand how it works.

Its just like forensic science, the non-scientific community accepts it as gospel. I'm glad Bloomer is questioning their test results. Somebody needs to. Black Sunshine seems like the right man for the job.

Yep I have gone and got 2 tires both 40 mounted them on rims the same size...pump them up to 40 pounds . Say one of them is 94in and the other one is 98in.. How can 2 tire be the same and be SO far a part...So i check the numbers on the side . And they are from the same batch same Machine ...Something is wrong....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I read the first page of the thread but I just can't stomach reading through another 5 pages of tire discussions again so forgive me if this was already mentioned...I don't see the sample results posted on the AMRA website...yet. Any chance this is a hoax?

http://www.amramodified.com/

I saw them on Facebook.

[Cardirt0]

I read the first page of the thread but I just can't stomach reading through another 5 pages of tire discussions again so forgive me if this was already mentioned...I don't see the sample results posted on the AMRA website...yet. Any chance this is a hoax?

http://www.amramodified.com/

I think I found them on the web site you posted..2nd one center of page....shows 3 tires that passed...

[71PRPFan]

From way back in July...

Whether he cheated them tars I don't know. I just can't see Jackie doping or using the voodoo chemical remover magic for a $1500 to win 25 lap race at a track he's
Won at like 12 times this year when AMRA has been testing tires all year.

[Barbecueboy]

From way back in July...

Whether he cheated them tars I don't know. I just can't see Jackie doping or using the voodoo chemical remover magic for a $1500 to win 25 lap race at a track he's
Won at like 12 times this year when AMRA has been testing tires all year.
That is entirely too sensible and logical........and has no place on 4m.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

From way back in July...

Whether he cheated them tars I don't know. I just can't see Jackie doping or using the voodoo chemical remover magic for a $1500 to win 25 lap race at a track he's
Won at like 12 times this year when AMRA has been testing tires all year.

Actually, it is a perfect place to test a tire technique , since the same lab is in use and the penalty is pretty much a non issue for him.

[Cardirt0]

Actually, it is a perfect place to test a tire technique , since the same lab is in use and the penalty is pretty much a non issue for him.

You got a good point there.. If you want to try something and see if it works. AND see if you can get a way with it .. Try it were it will not cost to much...Not saying he did, But it looks like it...And it be a good place too do it....

[Snake X3]

I think I found them on the web site you posted..2nd one center of page....shows 3 tires that passed...

That one was from July 19th. It's probably not a hoax, but my first thought was that someone could easily photoshop an image and post it on facebook....especially when it wasn't on their website yet. I guess I'm just too worn out from all this tire crap to want to believe it...not naïve, but just worn out.

Dang Jackie! Why?

[Cardirt0]

Snake I know what you mean.. I hate Cheating ..and this is not getting old but getting REAL OLD..Fast .. If the driver I like and I found out he was Cheating,,,, I would be HEART broken.. I just dont think he does it.. But this $hit needs too end and end NOW...

[Snake X3]

Snake I know what you mean.. I hate Cheating ..and this is not getting old but getting REAL OLD..Fast .. If the driver I like and I found out he was Cheating,,,, I would be HEART broken.. I just dont think he does it.. But this $hit needs too end and end NOW...

As a fan, I know I'm not alone being disillusioned by all the cheating. You see a guy like Rigsby and you can tell it's just ripping out his soul. I just don't get why these guys would cheat if they know they are gonna get tested. It's like going a coke bender the night before you gotta pee in a cup for your job. I just can't believe these guys would be that stupid.

Anyway...are you one of the guys that does those Mudboss videos? Those things are awesome. I watched every one of them this season...start to finish. I feel like Farmer City is my home track now.

[Cardirt0]

As a fan, I know I'm not alone being disillusioned by all the cheating. You see a guy like Rigsby and you can tell it's just ripping out his soul. I just don't get why these guys would cheat if they know they are gonna get tested. It's like going a coke bender the night before you gotta pee in a cup for your job. I just can't believe these guys would be that stupid.

Anyway...are you one of the guys that does those Mudboss videos? Those things are awesome. I watched every one of them this season...start to finish. I feel like Farmer City is my home track now.

No I am not with MUD.. but if you ever get a change too meet him he is one cool guy.. He gave me a years worth of Vids on CDs for FarmerCity for FREE when he heard i could not make it no more..He and his Boy are the best..If you want a CD of a race he will sell it to you and at a good price..Hes the best thats why i have him on my link...

[71PRPFan]

His bread and butter is 2000-5000 races. It costs money to race for 1500 I can't see him throwing it away when it's a big part of his yearly income. A drop in the bucket for some guys but not a single car team.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

His bread and butter is 2000-5000 races. It costs money to race for 1500 I can't see him throwing it away when it's a big part of his yearly income. A drop in the bucket for some guys but not a single car team.

You do realize the World is this weekend? Right? Does he not still have Frazier's motor in the car? That is the biggest maintenance item.

I don't think he will miss that $1500 if it equals Eldora success or when the next guy picks up his Swartz by 4B.

[zeroracing]

TJHTA42, I have been told that from sales guys for all tire brands, they have access to get a softer tire compound... I don't know if it is true never called their bluff, but have been told that by guys from multiple tire companies. (The dealerships for each brand).

[King1]

Now if they can just catch the rest of the 4b cars buying their rubber from that garage in Grayson. I saw one of the cars this past weekend was about 1 second faster than the field (I guess he got a fresh load of RUBBER)

[blncfn57]

According to the legal action the lab has two sets of results for the same tire samples. One that states not a match to benchmark and the other as in order. Same lab, same test sample, same test procedure so why was additional test carried out? My guess was to confirm orginal results which obviously didn't work for anybody involved in this mess. If the series heads had any sense a fine would have been issued no results for the weekend and warned that their teams have clearly done something that proves to be non conclusive for this event. Some type of probation while the series and lab works out what was a actually done they could then issues a statement that it will no longer be allowed with any future unconclussive tests result being met with a ban from series events.

Nobody knows who supplied the second sample or if it came from the same tire. That's just what is in the lawsuit. I would like to believe that if WRG supplied 2 samples to the lab and they were from the same tire with different results, there would be something done to figure out what the problem is. My guess is the 2nd sample came from one of the same guys who was deemed illegal and there's no way to prove where it came from. Remember, hoosier and the lab are not named in the lawsuit which tells me the drivers are not accusing the lab or hoosier of making a mistake.

[Cardirt0]

Nobody knows who supplied the second sample or if it came from the same tire. That's just what is in the lawsuit. I would like to believe that if WRG supplied 2 samples to the lab and they were from the same tire with different results, there would be something done to figure out what the problem is. My guess is the 2nd sample came from one of the same guys who was deemed illegal and there's no way to prove where it came from. Remember, hoosier and the lab are not named in the lawsuit which tells me the drivers are not accusing the lab or hoosier of making a mistake.

Some were I read that it was from the same tire and they had proof and people that were there that seen it taken from the same tire...If I can find it back i will post a link...But i have been to 10000 sites the last 3 days with this. so may that some time if at all if I find it back... LOL...

[Cardirt0]

Just called my Nephew he was in the top 1% of his class at the U of I on deans list all 4 years (Sorry had to brag on him) He did lots of lab and computer at the U of I.. he said if it was not from the same tire they would have know right off on the test...

[Bob Hubbard]

I see Boggs is last on the list to qualify ....

[Nasty55]

.Thats why you see the driver gunning it swaying back and fort trying to burn off the glaze..He says if you treat the tire, It will not glaze over..thats why you see some cars fall back on the restart tire dont hook up...He told me if you see a driver not burning off the tire and then takes off good after each restart there is a 50% his tires are DOPED..The tire will not glaze up if its doped...



Not always a sign that a tire has been treated Gary.... a Good driver who knows his car and throttle response can work it where those tires are always in decent shape to be there at anytime.... thats just my opinion anyway...

[Cardirt0]

Not always a sign that a tire has been treated Gary.... a Good driver who knows his car and throttle response can work it where those tires are always in decent shape to be there at anytime.... thats just my opinion anyway...

I use too speak with Erb all the time .. and we spoke more then once on a glazed tire not firing off on the restart .. he said sometimes they just Glaze and will not firer off for 2 or 3 laps and said it has cost him a race or too more then once .. and I know he dont Dope his Tires...Hes just a good guy who does not be-lave in cheating....

[swartzman]

I have worked for Jackie off and on for the last 9 yrs. I can tell you we are very carefull on the tires as to how they get pressure washed, mounted and how they are handled for this very reason.. there is something they need to be explaining to all of us as to what it is.. there's to many people getting DQ'd for this. If it was 1or 2 people i could see that, but we are talking about guy's who can run up front in a go cart. We are not sure what is going on because they are not telling us much either. As far as the 1300's being on the car for some of the big races is the fact that jackie does not abuse his tires by sliding, spinnig them. We have just flat ruined tires trying different ways of cutting or siping them..

[Bob Hubbard]

I have worked for Jackie off and on for the last 9 yrs. I can tell you we are very carefull on the tires as to how they get pressure washed, mounted and how they are handled for this very reason.. there is something they need to be explaining to all of us as to what it is.. there's to many people getting DQ'd for this. If it was 1or 2 people i could see that, but we are talking about guy's who can run up front in a go cart. We are not sure what is going on because they are not telling us much either. As far as the 1300's being on the car for some of the big races is the fact that jackie does not abuse his tires by sliding, spinnig them. We have just flat ruined tires trying different ways of cutting or siping them..
Someone had to be told why ..... The people that post hear only know so much .... Atomic had to give some kinda reason .... Someone figured out how to pass the sniff test so now the rubber has to be looked at ....

[swartzman]

Nothing different was done to the tires, talk to Jackie as far as what was told to him.. King1 as far as who supplies jackies tires, that would be poskes. He runs same tire you can by yourself, plus if you would like for them to be siped, grooved, mounted and balanced that would be 20 dollars more per tire at the shop in grayson.

[Bob Hubbard]

Good .... If Boggs wasn't at fault than he shouldn't take the rap for it .....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Good .... If Boggs wasn't at fault than he shouldn't take the rap for it .....

Bridge in Arizona. $10k. Great deal.

[71PRPFan]

Jackie din do nuffin!

[Bob Hubbard]

Bridge in Arizona. $10k. Great deal.
Our Main bridge crossing the Ohio river is in need of replacement ..... We just might be interested in a good deal .... Rather or not the garage in grayson is the answer its going to come out sooner or later whats up ....

[Necrosis]

Yep I have gone and got 2 tires both 40 mounted them on rims the same size...pump them up to 40 pounds . Say one of them is 94in and the other one is 98in.. How can 2 tire be the same and be SO far a part...So i check the numbers on the side . And they are from the same batch same Machine ...Something is wrong....A 98" tire, huh?

[Bob Hubbard]

Jackie din do nuffin!

I hope your right .... I know boggs has a large fan base ... Ive heard alot of good things about him also .... The problem is in the middle of the tire thing he gets called out for the same issue ....

[RCJ]

Cooking the tires makes alot of sense from a practical stand point.I don't like to run brand new tires.I prefer to run a hot lap session on them first.If you are a professional team with a crew and big hauler it would be a huge under taking to go scuff tires and all most impossible to scuff during a race weekend.Cooking a tire to season it would make sense from a time and money stand point.

[Bubstr]

The big question is, if you can cook them to make a longer lasting tire or a better preforming tire, why should it be illegal? Everyone could do it. It doesn't cost much. It don't seem like your going to catch cancer from it. Why have rles that make uneven playing fields? If only the cheaters can cheat, then only the honest guy is wronged. If you can't catch them all, you shouldn't make the rule.

[King1]

mounting, grooving, siping, and balancing an additional $20. Whats the option for doping?? is it an additional $20? I'm sure if you don't have that 4b car then that option is not on the menu board.
Face it folks he did it and the only people that care is the 4m crowd. I could almost guarantee that his next race at PRP or 201 there's not gonna be any additional or more harsh tech toward the 4b. This stuff means nothing at a regional or local level, it just tells the locals that the reason they're a half second off every week is because they're going against dope and that its OK to do it. If you dope and he's still faster its because you didn't call the right guy.
Local tracks don't have the money to test tires that's why he makes his living on $5,000 shows. All local tracks are concerned about it having Jackie promise to show, brag about it on radio or whatever advertising they choose, and make sure they pack enough in there to sell more hot dogs.
But there is a conspiracy though. WRG busts anyone who outruns the 1 car (willie Milliken for example) Lucas Oil busts anyone local who busts the pros NDRL busted Jimmy Owens a few years ago at I-55. They all do it but some guys only run sanctioned races to either make sure they don't get beat by someone(local) who is cheating tires or they run sanctioned races to make sure they have tire testing immunity. It will go down in history in being the most denied thing ever but just like Clinton denying the Monica thing it will never come out and never be admitted by a racer until the media puts enough pressure on them to squeal (which will never happen). Racers are like politicians they will never tell the truth.
These labs get paid to test tires and tell the truth (why would they be biased?) I'm sure the folks at the lab have never heard of Bloomquist or Boggs or who ever and I'm sure they don't care.
Maybe all tracks should go NASCAR sanctioned that way we can buy used tires and the track and be done with it. Until then there is no end in sight and people will still be making dope at home and making money and not paying taxes on it and not offering MSDS sheets on it.
Boggs will never lose fans for cheating tires just like bloomer never did and just like Jimmy Owens never did. The only way he will lose fan base is if he starts to suck it up and run last everywhere he goes.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

The big question is, if you can cook them to make a longer lasting tire or a better preforming tire, why should it be illegal? Everyone could do it. It doesn't cost much. It don't seem like your going to catch cancer from it. Why have rles that make uneven playing fields? If only the cheaters can cheat, then only the honest guy is wronged. If you can't catch them all, you shouldn't make the rule.
If the deal is chemical alteration and the chemical makeup is altered, it is illegal. In all honesty, I think they should quit with the tires and make guys actually run legal bodies and other things they can easily check in the pits.

[Crashmagnet]

Great post King1, if a sanctioning body isn't trying to fix the problem of tire doping then they are part of the problem

[Crashmagnet]

I think we may look back at the 2010-2015 seasons like baseball fans look at the seasons that had the rediculous home run numbers, when guys that had been career .200 hitters w/ 15 home runs, started hitting 45 homers. Everybody was doping.

[Bubstr]

It's easy to say, if they don't meet the benchmark, they are illegal, but if you can't enforce the rule, it's not much of a rule and only penalizes the honest competitor. Why have it at all and penalize no one. The best thing would be to make a easily enforceable rule that penalizes no one. As it is right now, these rules make cheating tires, much more effective. If yo are getting beat by a doped tire, that isn't going to get caught, do you cheat a little bit, cheat as much as they do or just run 5th threw 10th.

[Cardirt0]

A 98" tire, huh?

its been a wile that I have put a tape on a tire so I just tossed numbers out there. they were 4in apart..been 5 years last time i put a tape on one.... Dont remember what it was ..may have been 78 and 82 Or it may have been 65 and 69... dont recall just that they were 4in apart...Give me a brake was just trying too make a point...

[Racer63]

What I find so funny is a few drivers/ crew chief type guys who absolutely know what is going have pretty much spelled it out for you in this thread. Yet still the same group of posters who go round and round every day on here continue to debate and quibble back and forth like school children.

Hell I just took it for granted that everyone knew this crap was going on and has been for a long time. Guess I was wrong.

[Racer63]

Bias ply tires are always all over the place like that. Doesn't have anything to do with the chemical make up. Remember when NASCAR ran bias ply tires and not radials they had tires that were all over the place in sizes as well. Thats where they were always looking for the best matching sets. The racing was much better then as well cause you never knew who would be faster after a round of pit stops.

[Cardirt0]

Bias ply tires are always all over the place like that. Doesn't have anything to do with the chemical make up. Remember when NASCAR ran bias ply tires and not radials they had tires that were all over the place in sizes as well. Thats where they were always looking for the best matching sets. The racing was much better then as well cause you never knew who would be faster after a round of pit stops.

Dirt tire are Radials now too right...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I think we may look back at the 2010-2015 seasons like baseball fans look at the seasons that had the rediculous home run numbers, when guys that had been career .200 hitters w/ 15 home runs, started hitting 45 homers. Everybody was doping.

It has always been happening. It is just that recently people have made an issue of it.

[Racer63]

Dirt tire are Radials now too right...

No they are not.

[plunks7]

Dirt tire are Radials now too right...

Steal studded for more grip.

[Cardirt0]

Steal studded for more grip.

Cant run them in ILL ...Studs are a go too jail here.. Can only run Chains here LOL

[plunks7]

Cant run them in ILL ...Studs are a go too jail here.. Can only run Chains here LOL

You mean wrist bracelets. LOL

[Cardirt0]

You mean wrist bracelets. LOL

No No No Snow chains LOL She have too be 1 fat girl to wear them..