Tracks step up safety

[Rubbinsracin1]

Here is a list of things that should be mandatory to race at ANY track NO WARNINGS if you DONT have them you DONT roll your car onto the track. No local track officals or WOO/LUCAS officals letting it slide anymore like they do now....1- Yearly inspected fire extinguisher with pull pin in (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)pit 2- HANS DEVICES on EVERY driver NO excuses you DONT have it you DONT hot lap3- Up to date inspected seat belts4- Gloves some drivers drive without them because they can feel the car more... NO MORE 5- An updated fire suit (not old ones with holes or rips)6-Head sock for fire protection of the head/neck7- Helmet visor tear-off shields (some drivers use a rag to reduce costs)I get so mad when we go through inspections to check shocks and tires but officials ignore safety components that will potentially keep our drivers alive. When will tracks and series stand up? Will it take a big name driver getting killed to make a true change? I say all drivers lives matter... What do you guys think? Agree? Disagree? Am I missing something? or do I just care too much?

[Rubbinsracin1]

where is says not a nice word it said "in drivers c0ckp1t" not sure why it didnt like what i said

[pig tracker]

I think some more studies and testing need to be done on the HANS device before it becomes mandatory. My concerns are with all the concussions that are showing up with drivers using the HANS. Could it be possible that we have eliminated neck injures and replaced it with brain injures? Could it be that now the head is being held too rigid and the brain is still moving in the head and contacting the skull with a greater force than before? I'm just a dumb old driver but I have been thinking about this for about 6 months or more with all the concussions that are now coming to light. Any thoughts.

[ajr31]

I think maybe there is more awareness and diagnosis of concussions now, not necessarily more concussions.

[heinen81]

Sounds like he had a Hans type system, but that is really only beneficial in longitudinal head movement. If what i hear is true, and he hit drivers door first... A full containment seat to prevent his head from moving side to side probably would have been an improvement. My opinion is a head and neck restraint system and containment seat should be mandatory. Why a person would buy a standard seat now days when the industry has improved safety so far in that area, just baffles me. And dont say cost, if you really cannot afford a containment seat, you cant afford to be racing. Not saying that was his case, but there's no place for cheap seats in this sport anymore, no matter how fast or slow the class.

[c1ty5tar]

I think some more studies and testing need to be done on the HANS device before it becomes mandatory. My concerns are with all the concussions that are showing up with drivers using the HANS. Could it be possible that we have eliminated neck injures and replaced it with brain injures? Could it be that now the head is being held too rigid and the brain is still moving in the head and contacting the skull with a greater force than before? I'm just a dumb old driver but I have been thinking about this for about 6 months or more with all the concussions that are now coming to light. Any thoughts.

This is pretty accurate. It's why the padding in football helmets is starting to evolve as well. Think of helmet padding needing to be like a "safer barrier" absorbing impact while gradually stopping the object moving instead of a sudden stop. That, in combination with the Hans and full containment seat, would probably be the optimal combination.

[rakracing]

like pig said, been racing latemodels close to 30 years hit about everything but the grader over the years, even destroyed one that what was left fit in a tot and bent the deck with my head, last ten years with full containment seat [ a good one] had by bell rung more than once by that seat on a rough track, I use a simpson hybrid head support but run the tethers loose. also there a young kid at the track that parents bought him best of every thing , suit gloves helmet, best cont, seat and a hans, he is on his 4th concussion and was told he should stop before serious damage happens, I believe if the helmet stops to fast the head and brain wont, containment seat that the helmet is not tight on both sides that you cant move your head is asking for trouble. my opinion but what do I know.

[Crossbones]

I think its odd how so many drivers have been injured over the last 7/8 years, really since "safety" came into discussion around 2007 when Randy LaJoie started trying to sell his products to the dirt market. This sport was safe 10/20/30 years ago. Now it seems every month someone is getting their necks broken or now killed. Hell is paved with good intentions.

[Krooser]

Years ago auto racing lost at least one driver per month... open wheel or stock cars.

[Crossbones]

Years ago auto racing lost at least one driver per month... open wheel or stock cars.

In asphalt racing and maybe sprints but I was talking about dirt late models. What works for safety in asphalt racing may be harmful for dirt late model drivers. The safety that came into DLMR over the last 8 years has come from NASCAR. None of this stuff was researched for DLMR.

[mopar92]

Sounds like he had a Hans type system, but that is really only beneficial in lateral head movement. If what i hear is true, and he hit drivers door first... A full containment seat to prevent his head from moving side to side probably would have been an improvement. My opinion is a head and neck restraint system and containment seat should be mandatory. Why a person would by a standard seat now days when the industry has improved safety so far in that area, just baffles me. And dont say cost, if you really cannot afford a containment seat, you cant afford to be racing. Not saying that was his case, but theres no place for cheap seats in this sport anymore, no matter how fast or slow the class.

I think you meant longitudinal force. The Hans is designed to work in longitudinal (forward) force. Pretty sure Indy, F1, and NASCAR guy are hitting much harder than a DLM doing 100mph. I recently got pinched in the wall and launched over a car. It was a violent barrel roll. I have a quality containment seat and wear a Hans. I agree with what Weaver said. That containment seat beat be up. I felt every time my head hit the containment foam. I believe that the SFI does a great job setting a safety standard. But I strongly would like to see how that hard a$$ foam in these seat head restraints or roll bar foam is right. To me it's way way way too hard. I too got a concussion and was out for 4 months. I have a brand new Bell helmet. Nothing was damaged and everything dos its job.
I will say this as well. I'm not a big guy and that containment seat makes it very tight getting in and out. For those who want to mandate it.... The cars are going to have to change or some of these drivers lose 150lbs. I see some giant racers NOT run a containment seat because "I can't get in or out with it in there. I hate mandatory stuff as much as the next guy but there is obviously an issue here.
Here is what I propose :
•containment seats mandatory
• larger window opening
•mandatory way to get out of the passenger side
•fire suppression system mandatory
•mandatory rollover valve in fuel cell
Sadly, guys say they can't afford it. Well, I've had 3rd degree burns from a race car, that was expensive. They buy a $40,000 open motor but can't afford $2000 worth of safety gear. These low roofs and high doors look sleek and cool, but they are simply dangerous. No two ways around it.

[mopar92]

I think its odd how so many drivers have been injured over the last 7/8 years, really since "safety" came into discussion around 2007 when Randy LaJoie started trying to sell his products to the dirt market. This sport was safe 10/20/30 years ago. Now it seems every month someone is getting their necks broken or now killed. Hell is paved with good intentions.

That is the most naive thing I've heard in this thread. Do you really think better fire suits, fire suppression, Hans, better helmets, better shields, better car design, better fuel cells, better everything in a sense of safety has caused more injury or deaths? Sadly, the most recent injuries have come from lack of proper fuel cell equipment, lack of a better seat, or simply the cars are going faster than they are caged for..... Look at these big Indy and NASCAR hits and they walk away. That didn't happen in the 60-90's.

[billetbirdcage]

Not a LM, but this will probably open some peoples eyes or least surprise them some:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOsoNGwDTcg

You may not want to watch all of it, but least look at the 2nd crash test at the 2 min mark.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

That is the most naive thing I've heard in this thread. Do you really think better fire suits, fire suppression, Hans, better helmets, better shields, better car design, better fuel cells, better everything in a sense of safety has caused more injury or deaths? Sadly, the most recent injuries have come from lack of proper fuel cell equipment, lack of a better seat, or simply the cars are going faster than they are caged for..... Look at these big Indy and NASCAR hits and they walk away. That didn't happen in the 60-90's.

I don't think he was poking holes in all those items, but I also think he has some points. Things are not always better in all situations or better period just because you are told they are.

It is very possible that HANS causes more concussions. It is meant to prevent basal skull fracture, not concussion. It is very easy to trade one type of unlikely injury for a more common one with equipment change.

[toyracer]

Maybe time to start slowing these cars down. Very hard tires & less aero would help do this IMO.

I think would also improve racing & passing. Racing now is so much hammer down with soft tires that it leaves a lot to be desired.

[Brian Gray]

The hans isn't the problem. A big issue is people will buy and use it without a real containment seat. We have talked about this over and over. I thought it would end when lefler screwed up an cut his head support off. I guess not! If you cannot get in and out of Your car with the proper set up seat system, at least be smart enough to leave the hans at home.

[hipower17]

toyracer has a good point.

[tommydz71]

Would a window net have helped. I often wondered why most dirt cars don't use them.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

toyracer has a good point.

The speeds at Eldora this Saturday were on par with the 1970s.

[lmfan71]

Working in the safety field, there are many unknowns that go into these accidents. Safety only helps, can not prevent freak accidents. But I no a famous drive would loosen his belts up during the race so he would be more comfortable, some don't like the full seats, some don't like bars in front of their face to block debris, etc... Many thing in a nascar, or upper level cars are watched by cameras and computers. So know forces and impacts.

[FlatTire]

An engineer that works for one of major head and neck restraint companies once told me exactly what Pig Tracker pointed out. In a longitudinal impact with a head and neck restraint, all you have done is transferred the load to the next weakest part which is the brain impacting the skull.

If Earnhardt would have been wearing a head and neck restraint, the risk of injury due to basal skull fracture would have been lessened/prevented but a severe concussion/ permanent brain injury would have been the end result.

I don't follow NASCAR like I used to, but have the number of concussions increased since they mandated head and neck restraints?

One thing I would like to see changed is the window openings need increased to allow for ease of exit when the driver has to get out. Its too hard with all your safety equipment on and a containment seat. I've tried to do it while upside down, just glad I wasn't on fire.

[old fan]

and how about the one piece steering wheels not many use I them it helps save your hands

[FlatTire]

I have a clear lexan disc I made for my steering wheel after multiple broken thumbs and a wrist over the last 12yrs or so. I've asked 3 of the major manufacturers to copy my idea and mass produce it. None of them have taken me up on that idea yet. With the clear disc you can still see your gauges and with the center out of the disc, you can still release the steering wheel.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

What about SAFER barriers. Do any dirt tracks use those? I think they would also aid in hard impact crashes.

[Cardirt0]

What about SAFER barriers. Do any dirt tracks use those? I think they would also aid in hard impact crashes.

Cost too do 200 feet of wall 1/4 mill in bucks...If dirt gets behind them then they will not work as good.. So you have a lot of work too maintain them..Some tracks cant keep the grass cut...

[Cardirt0]

like pig said, been racing latemodels close to 30 years hit about everything but the grader over the years, even destroyed one that what was left fit in a tot and bent the deck with my head, last ten years with full containment seat [ a good one] had by bell rung more than once by that seat on a rough track, I use a simpson hybrid head support but run the tethers loose. also there a young kid at the track that parents bought him best of every thing , suit gloves helmet, best cont, seat and a hans, he is on his 4th concussion and was told he should stop before serious damage happens, I believe if the helmet stops to fast the head and brain wont, containment seat that the helmet is not tight on both sides that you cant move your head is asking for trouble. my opinion but what do I know.

Yep all the safety stuff in the world will not help if it is not used Right...I think it all has too give some.. If you can not move your head at all then the brain is a ping pong ball in a box.. the soft wall Gives so the restraints on your neck and head need too give some so the brain dont take it all,,,
add
Look at all the NASCAR drivers that hit the wall .. and the next day they have Bruises on there bodys the next day when the belts dont let them move at all..now the head cant move and the brain still want to move ...maybe they have gone too far.. and made it were it still hurts you...

[Cardirt0]

Not a LM, but this will probably open some peoples eyes or least surprise them some:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOsoNGwDTcg

You may not want to watch all of it, but least look at the 2nd crash test at the 2 min mark.

Thats scary I have to think they need to look at doing something to the top of the car...

[heinen81]

Did anyone on here actually see the incident? I just talked to someone who did, and I got the impression he was hard on the brakes and slowed, he tagged the back of a nearly stopped car, drivers door to left rear wheel area, and went up the track and bumped the wall, if that. Was told the safety workers were walking around the car, so it was not pinned drivers side door into the wall. Was told if not for cutting the cage to get him out, it looked like replace a wheel/tire and some sheet metal work and it could have been fixed in 15 minutes. Is it possible he had a medical emergency during/after?

[bayou tuff]

Question? Have dirt cars with all the new technology available become unsafe because of the speed and grip they are able to generate outpacing the ability of the tracks to handle these cars. Some tracks haven't had safety upgrades for years. They remain the same every year. I've been attending races for 36 years and some tracks I have been to recently haven't changed anything in 30 years. Still the same ol' dirt(surface), same ol' fences and still not the right emergency equipment on scene.

[Cardirt0]

Will FarmerCity did a lot of Improvements Because the IN. Com. told them too do them...
Fairbury fixed lot of the fences and walls this year...So some tracks are....

[brsteg]

I think some more studies and testing need to be done on the HANS device before it becomes mandatory. My concerns are with all the concussions that are showing up with drivers using the HANS. Could it be possible that we have eliminated neck injures and replaced it with brain injures? Could it be that now the head is being held too rigid and the brain is still moving in the head and contacting the skull with a greater force than before? I'm just a dumb old driver but I have been thinking about this for about 6 months or more with all the concussions that are now coming to light. Any thoughts.

Are you suggesting that we have drivers die instantly from a broken neck instead of being out for a month or 2 with concussions?
Also a HANS is designed for a head on crash, it has much less effect in a side impact.
I didn't see the wreck but hearing accounts, I think he hit his head against the wall or roll bar. Maybe I'm wrong; but full containment seat would have been the best beat to prevent that from happening. That's just not the direction a HANS was designed for.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Are you suggesting that we have drivers die instantly from a broken neck instead of being out for a month or 2 with concussions?
Also a HANS is designed for a head on crash, it has much less effect in a side impact.
I didn't see the wreck but hearing accounts, I think he hit his head against the wall or roll bar. Maybe I'm wrong; but full containment seat would have been the best beat to prevent that from happening. That's just not the direction a HANS was designed for.

Are you suggesting that LM drivers have, in the past, died from lack of HANS?

[Aluminium Block]

Some items that are considered a safety item in one situation can make another one dangerous. Two drivers have died in Ohio this year. One because he couldn't get out of his car on fire. Did HANS, full containment seat, etc hinder that? The other one died from apparent impact where these items may have been helpful. Making something mandatory that could hinder exit from a burning car may not be the answer...........

[pap]

Something I have noticed, drivers sitting too high in the car, head even to or above halo. Watch DOD video of the the World and watch Mcdowell's head. This was a big thing back in the 80's, and it seems I'm seeing more guys either sitting to high or having a lower halo.

[pig tracker]

I'm not suggesting anything other than more studies might need to be done before we just say "let's make a HANS mandatory". Are they saving a particular injury and possible creating another. Also, 4 or 5 concussions can create a whole slew of medical problems. Most people do not die instantly from a broken neck. More times than not they have more damage done by personnel that are not properly trained on moving a person with a broken neck. Does it happen? Yes. But very rarely. And on a side note, I am surprised that window nets are not required in all classes. I race USAR modified and if you don't have a window net don't even start your car in the pits, because you're not racing that night. Of course, they don't require gloves for protection, which I find that odd. Seems to me that falls right in there with wearing a helmet, fire retardant suit and shoes, and safety harness.

[STRONGERTHANDIRT]

I assume there will be an autopsy?

[Waldo]

I don't think racing gloves are even Mandatory in Nascar. It seems everybody has them but I don't think they are Mandatory.

[ClampedUp]

I don't think racing gloves are even Mandatory in Nascar. It seems everybody has them but I don't think they are Mandatory.

Yes they are...
Ryan Blaney got his butt chewed out by NASCAR for not wearing them in practice at Darlington a couple weeks back.

[plunks7]

We all could talk about how to make it safer. And I have to believe the Higher Powers with in talk just like we do. Some times you never have a answer for something that went wrong. And if you even start to second guess your self. That could be where all the troubles could begin. This was a very unfortunate accident that went wrong. And this will not be the last!! Their are things in one's life we have no control of. As Bobby did mention to his Wife, We care and cry for you. This is the route that we all should be looking at!!!!!!!!!

[rakracing]

always thought from day one head and neck device needs to be progressive , much like a fall restraint system that stitches tear at certain g forces, I love the containment seat up to the halo, would prefer the old stye kirkey head support and a window net. secondly, these chassis builder have no rules any tubing ,any thickness ,cages to small and to low if nascar or nhra tested and controlled this 1990s cars would win again, anyone dumped a late model on its cage that wasn't totaled? check out the rules if you want to build a asphalt whelen modified frame.

[rakracing]

had a fellow driver and friend killed in a latemodel in 2001, big pileup he slid in drivers side first and the rear bumper from other car came in window and got him in the head, car was the least damaged of all of them. maybe the deck support bar got him and not the wall, by 81's account that's what it sounds like.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Tracks step up safety????

Did they really?

Tell us all about it.

[Cardirt0]

Go see the 2016 vid of the World 100 posted too day,,
But if look at that Vid... See how little room there is for his head from the top of the car.. If that cage gives even a little it would hit his head... Or if he was setting on his side, how little there is too stop a car from getting too him...If the other car hit the roof...

[BloomerHarvickFan]

I say move the seats 6" in toward the center of the car, and raise the rollcage by 3 or 4"

[Cardirt0]

I say move the seats 6" in toward the center of the car, and raise the rollcage by 3 or 4"

I Say Yes and YES... Plus,, some bars need too be added to the top. maybe Just add a 2nd loop of bars up 1in or so there is more bars that have to bend too get to him... That way you could up grade the old cars too be safer...

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I say move the seats 6" in toward the center of the car, and raise the rollcage by 3 or 4"

I don't want a driveshaft between my legs.

[Clayton_Wetter]

I don't want a driveshaft between my legs.

Well that settled that matter!!! hahaahahaa

[rakracing]

Mastersbilt you need to try a north east modified its all between your legs.

[zeroracing]

The most dangerous and scariest part of the race car is the driveshaft. That thing is nothing to mess with. East coast mods run a different transmission for the set up also, at least to the best of my knowledge. I would not want to sit over a driveshaft. They are nothing to be tangled with.

[old fan]

I say move the seats 6" in toward the center of the car, and raise the rollcage by 3 or 4" and a better crash zone on the drivers door and by the Zach dohm in that video had a taller cage or atleast it looked like it

[old fan]

The most dangerous and scariest part of the race car is the driveshaft. That thing is nothing to mess with. East coast mods run a different transmission for the set up also, at least to the best of my knowledge. I would not want to sit over a driveshaft. They are nothing to be tangled with. many racers use a carbon fiber drive shaft they just splinter

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

many racers use a carbon fiber drive shaft they just splinter


Yea so instead of hole drive shaft hitting ya in the azz u just get splinters like porkypine quills

[old fan]

but doesn't bang the crap out of you how about working with this maybe nut just the head either http://www.bikerumor.com/2010/10/21/video-bicycle-airbag-helmet-seriously/

[zeroracing]

I agree that you should use a CF shaft, not all tracks allow them but most do. Some limited cars they don't. Also you still have parts with a ball spline. Shaft, end yoke... They do not go to nothing some parts will stay attached we are just further away from them currently.

[zeroracing]

Interesting link, horse jumpers use inflatable vest, when your cord attached to your saddle is pulled as you fall they pop out. Works great except not really a carry over to racing and much lighter loads. Still a cool idea.