Ump

[rickybrown1952]

Supposedly a track in Illinois has been told by ump that they are not allowed to run a lucus oil show and if they do they will loose their ump sanction and the summer natlonals totally rediculouis way too much control over a track and what they can and cannot do

[cjp0354]

Tri City and Macon runs both UMP and Lucas. Correct?

[bleedblue55]

Isn't UMP part of the WRG World of Outlaws group. Tyler County Speedway ran their usual WOO late model show over Memorial Day and had Lucas Oil there over Labor Day for the Hillbilly. Pretty sure both sanctions will be back at the Bullring next year.

[dirt FANatic 11]

According to the Facebook post, UMP told the new track that all other tracks were "Grandfathered in". Thats why Macon and Tri-City can run Lucas.

Total BS. This is why tracks have to close. UMP dictates what the track can and can not do to promote their business.

[calverton]

Supposedly a track in Illinois has been told by ump that they are not allowed to run a lucus oil show and if they do they will loose their ump sanction and the summer natlonals totally rediculouis way too much control over a track and what they can and cannot do the track in question doesn't run run late models on a weekly basis might have something to do with it , does a track really need woo or lucas at their track to survive tri city speedway biggest money weekend is mod mania in september

[calverton]

According to the Facebook post, UMP told the new track that all other tracks were "Grandfathered in". Thats why Macon and Tri-City can run Lucas. Total BS. This is why tracks have to close. UMP dictates what the track can and can not do to promote their business.try getting a summer nationals race at lucas oil speedway

[calverton]

you never see a lucas show at Eldora either they don't need to

[MI Dirt Fan]

Old fag, I mean Calverton. You obviously haven't learned your lesson yet. This must be like internet porn to you.

[dirt FANatic 11]

calverton, do either of those tracks want one of those races? (does Lucas Oil Speedway want a SN, or does Eldora want a Lucas Series race?) so what is your point?

Those 2 tracks are gems and can stand on their own. Eldora could go unsanctioned for both the Deam & World, and they would still get the same amount of cars

[cjp0354]

Can we please just say what track it is, instead of hiding that detail. I think if its true that's a bunch of BS.

[dirt FANatic 11]

Fayette County Speedway in Illinois

[HoosierDirtFan]

Supposedly a track in Illinois has been told by ump that they are not allowed to run a lucus oil show and if they do they will loose their ump sanction and the summer natlonals totally rediculouis way too much control over a track and what they can and cannot do

The track was Fayette County Speedway. Saw the post by the promoter on their Facebook page last night.

[LMMS24]

I believe Spoon River Speedway was told the same thing last year.

[W2Racing09]

I don't really think it hurts UMP to allow a LOLMDS show at a UMP track. I just quickly glanced at the LOLMDS schedule and picked out 11 that I think are at UMP sanctioned tracks. With the addition of FCS that would be 12. I somehow doubt the WoO LM wants to add 12 races to their already huge schedule. You are basically telling a track that they are not allowed to have a big race at their track. Either they give them a WoO LM date or they let them run LOLMDS it is BS to do it any other way. I would think it would be cool for the fans to see both sets of drivers at the track in the same season, most of the drivers on LOLMDS run UMP races a ton during the season too so its not like it does not support them.

I understand it is business and all but both tours seem to work together a little bit, I don't see why they need to worsen relations its only bad for the sport. (and obviously this time UMP is the aggressor)

[427c.i.]

I was told a rumor a few years ago that FALS was told the same thing when they wanted to book a Lucas show.
Like I said, rumor but it does sound like the same story FCS is being told.

Too bad, I guess the WRG is afraid of the competition.

[ptown]

Lucas has better quality of cars but they do nothing about the tire cheaters, maybe that's why WOO is taking that stand.

[dirt FANatic 11]

"427c.i.
I was told a rumor a few years ago that FALS was told the same thing when they wanted to book a Lucas show.
Like I said, rumor but it does sound like the same story FCS is being told.

Too bad, I guess the WRG is afraid of the competition."

I heard FALS was days away from signing with Lucas to make the PDC a Lucas event, and UMP/WRG came in last minute and made them make it a WoO race or they would lose UMP Sanction. - This came from one of the Lucas Oil Series directors

[ptown]

"427c.i.
I was told a rumor a few years ago that FALS was told the same thing when they wanted to book a Lucas show.
Like I said, rumor but it does sound like the same story FCS is being told.

Too bad, I guess the WRG is afraid of the competition."

I heard FALS was days away from signing with Lucas to make the PDC a Lucas event, and UMP/WRG came in last minute and made them make it a WoO race or they would loose UMP Sanction. - This came from one of the Lucas Oil Series directors

If Fairbury wanted to have a Lucas show they would, WOO don't want to mess with Fairbury and the PDC, one of their most successful races.

[slingindirt83]

I was told the same thing from a very reliable source from FALS. There is a date that if you had a lucas race before it you were grandfathered in.

[Barbecueboy]

Lucas has better quality of cars but they do nothing about the tire cheaters, maybe that's why WOO is taking that stand.

If what you say is true why would woo care if Lucas wants to besmirch their reputation as a series......seems like they would encourage it to gain a much needed advantage.


And if all of what has been discussed in this thread is remotely true, it's a clear sign that from woo standpoint, desperate times call for desperate measures.

[GEAR_HEAD]

UMP has absolutely no business telling any racetrack how to operate their business or how much profit can be made. Lucas Oil races are big money-makers for racetracks whether you like them or not, and basically UMP is telling them they are not allowed to have a big race to make a nice profit. That is overreach at its finest. The people who don't agree are either Democraps or have absolutely no business sense. This would be like Coke telling a grocery store that they can't sell Pepsi, which is illegal.

[MI Dirt Fan]

This would be like Coke telling a grocery store that they can't sell Pepsi, which is illegal.

Sav-a-lot grocery store in Baldwin MI only sells Pepsi. No Coke. Saw it one day. Been that way for quite a while.

[GEAR_HEAD]

Sav-a-lot grocery store in Baldwin MI only sells Pepsi. No Coke. Saw it one day. Been that way for quite a while.

That is the right of the grocery store. That usually has something to do with a conflict with that particular vendor. It would have been illegal for Pepsi to tell them to do so though.

[Bubstr]

When you see exclusive Pepsi or Coke at stores or restaurants even race tracks, it is a deal that includes price incentives and advertisement, such as signs. It's not forced but voluntary and perfectly legal.

In certain areas, being a UMP track is advantageous to get weekly car counts up. If this is part of the bargain, the tracks have to make up their minds on if it's worth it or not. A while back UMP pulled the SN race from 34 raceway. They are no longer a UMP track and they have a lucas oil race and a WOO sprint car race and one big unsanctioned race.

I may be wrong, but I believe some tracks that race SLM weekly have a better bargaining position.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Coke just flat out doesn't sell there so they pulled out. 2 other stores in town they sell coke

[GEAR_HEAD]

Regardless, it's illegal to threaten to stop offering your product if somebody chooses the competition's product. I don't know how any company or organization can ethically or legally try to do that. That just goes to show the lack of morals in UMP. Bob Memmer is turning over in his grave. The dinosaurs like Sam Driggers are destroying UMP and the Summernationals and doing unethical things like threatening racetrack promoters and calling consis "C-mains" so that they don't have to pay the participants, so maybe it's time to get some young blood in there. The old regime just isn't working anymore and they aren't helping the racing community, which is why UMP was formed in the first place. They seemed to have forgotten about the principles that UMP was founded upon.

[ptown]

Regardless, it's illegal to threaten to stop offering your product if somebody chooses the competition's product.

I disagree, do you have a link?

[calverton]

UMP has absolutely no business telling any racetrack how to operate their business or how much profit can be made. Lucas Oil races are big money-makers for racetracks whether you like them or not, and basically UMP is telling them they are not allowed to have a big race to make a nice profit. That is overreach at its finest. The people who don't agree are either Democraps or have absolutely no business sense. This would be like Coke telling a grocery store that they can't sell Pepsi, which is illegal. they sanction the track lucas oil would be a guess series, I think what UMP should 've done is go ahead run your lucas race but watch for other tracks running against you that weekend

[calverton]

you guys are a bunch rookies woo sprints had stipulations usac even before usac aaa had crazy rules going on look it up

[GEAR_HEAD]

I disagree, do you have a link?

A link to what? It's as illegal as predatory pricing, monopolies, and collusion, which are all serious threats to our great capitalist system. If this happened in corporate America there would be an instant antitrust lawsuit. Not to mention it's simply unethical, which should be enough to stop companies and organizations from doing it. Look up the AMD v Intel case where AMD claimed that Intel threatened to stop providing processors to companies that also used AMD processors. Intel knew they were guilty and settled for 1.25 billion dollars.

[Bubstr]

A link to what? It's as illegal as predatory pricing, monopolies, and collusion, which are all serious threats to our great capitalist system. If this happened in corporate America there would be an instant antitrust lawsuit. Not to mention it's simply unethical, which should be enough to stop companies and organizations from doing it. Look up the AMD v Intel case where AMD claimed that Intel threatened to stop providing processors to companies that also used AMD processors. Intel knew they were guilty and settled for 1.25 billion dollars.

What is illegal, is to take the incentives offered by a contract and not fulfill your end of the contract. UMP provides a service. The track pays for that service according to the contract. You have a choice.

[GEAR_HEAD]

What is illegal, is to take the incentives offered by a contract and not fulfill your end of the contract. UMP provides a service. The track pays for that service according to the contract. You have a choice.

So you know for a fact that the contract states that Fayette County cannot have a Lucas Oil race? I find it hard to believe that you have seen a copy of that contract. Plus you, like everybody else, never mention that it is immoral to handcuff promoters from making money and doing what is best for their tracks.

[ptown]

So you know for a fact that the contract states that Fayette County cannot have a Lucas Oil race? I find it hard to believe that you have seen a copy of that contract. Plus you, like everybody else, never mention that it is immoral to handcuff promoters from making money and doing what is best for their tracks.

Nothing illegal what UMP has done, immoral that's a matter of opinion.

[GEAR_HEAD]

Nothing illegal what UMP has done, immoral that's a matter of opinion.

So you didn't do any research. Typical.

[fryefan]

Nothing illegal what UMP has done, immoral that's a matter of opinion.

I agree with this assessment.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Kind of like a dirt racing mafia???

[GEAR_HEAD]

I agree with this assessment.

Because you know nothing about business law. Straight from the Federal Trade Commission website:

Refusal to Deal
In general, any business — even a monopolist — may choose its business partners. However, under certain circumstances, there may be limits on this freedom for a firm with market power. As courts attempt to define those limited situations when a firm with market power may violate antitrust law by refusing to do business with other firms, the focus is on how the refusal to deal helps the monopolist maintain its monopoly, or allows the monopolist to use its monopoly in one market to attempt to monopolize another market.

Sometimes the refusal to deal is with customers or suppliers, with the effect of preventing them from dealing with a rival: "I refuse to deal with you if you deal with my competitor." For example, in a case from the 1950's, the only newspaper in a town refused to carry advertisements from companies that were also running ads on a local radio station. The newspaper monitored the radio ads and terminated its ad contracts with any business that ran ads on the radio. The Supreme Court found that the newspaper's refusal to deal with businesses using the radio station strengthened its dominant position in the local advertising market and threatened to eliminate the radio station as a competitor.

[calverton]

Its called protecting you self interest also

[GEAR_HEAD]

Its called protecting you self interest also

Illegally. The proper way to handle it is improve their product (WOO) so that tracks would rather have a WOO show than a Lucas show. Or they can offer more competitive sanctioning fees than Lucas. Those are LEGAL ways to protect your interests. They way they're doing it is ILLEGAL. I guess UMP's slogan should be "if you can't beat 'em, cheat 'em"! Their blatant disregard for laws and morals should be enough cause for tracks to start dumping them and form their own alliance. They don't care about the promoters, drivers, or fans anymore. They only care about padding their pockets and taking care of their own special interests. The Hillary Clinton of dirt racing. We need a modern day Bob Memmer.

[calverton]

The track in question couldn't handle a woo show or a lucas show not enough stands plus it has in past ran very very late shows like 4 am shows

[GEAR_HEAD]

The track in question couldn't handle a woo show or a lucas show not enough stands plus it has in past ran very very late shows like 4 am shows

They're putting in more stands and they ran a fine show when I was there. But those points aren't relative to this conversation.

[Cardirt0]

Farmercity was told that they would lose UMP if they ran a Lucas race when they just got UMP back....

[Bubstr]

Sounds to me, that this track wants the advantages of being a UMP track and not do anything for it. There is no free lunch. The bad part is, in this area, if your not a UMP track, you don't have enough cars to run LM programs.There are more Late Models around, but they run for UMP points fund.

[GEAR_HEAD]

Sounds to me, that this track wants the advantages of being a UMP track and not do anything for it. There is no free lunch. The bad part is, in this area, if your not a UMP track, you don't have enough cars to run LM programs.There are more Late Models around, but they run for UMP points fund.

I'm sure they pay a fee for UMP sanctioning. That's all they have to do for it.

[Bubstr]

I'm sure they pay a fee for UMP sanctioning. That's all they have to do for it.

Really? See how that works for them.

[calverton]

the track in question doesn't run late models weekly though

[chopter]

I'd tell them I'm ump when I'm having ump sanctioned races. What I do otherwise isn't any of your business.

[calverton]

Sounds to me, that this track wants the advantages of being a UMP track and not do anything for it. There is no free lunch. The bad part is, in this area, if your not a UMP track, you don't have enough cars to run LM programs.There are more Late Models around, but they run for UMP points fund.what ever happened to route 45 speedway think about that one

[calverton]

I'd tell them I'm ump when I'm having ump sanctioned races. What I do otherwise isn't any of your business.sorry it don't work that way but nice try

[chopter]

sorry it don't work that way but nice try

It does work that way. Deals are made all the time. It's the way the world works.

[calverton]

I would say the sanctioning body has the upper hand don't you think look at route 45 changed sanctions and went belly up

[Barbecueboy]

sorry it don't work that way but nice try

What way, extortion?

[calverton]

read post 51

[Bubstr]

What way, extortion?

You could very well call it extortion. It's been going on since the mid 40s with sanctioning groups and tracks or even racers. Look at the old AAA. If they scheduled a race anywhere, a driver would forfeit his points for the year if he raced anywhere else. I believe there was a stock car road race in Mexico once and several drivers raced champ cars or sprints that week end and lost their point money. USAC had similar rules. Looking at it from the other side, Sanctioning bodies need their tracks and drivers to cooperate in order to provide the product they offered. It's give and take, covered by contract law.

[Barbecueboy]

read post 51

Don't have time for the soul train word scramble aka your posts........sorry

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I would say the sanctioning body has the upper hand don't you think look at route 45 changed sanctions and went belly up

Any time you change rules, you take that chance. Not necessarily directly related to sanction.