Rules Difference

[BTExpress]

After years of following sprint cars, northeast big block modifieds and more recently dirt late models, I started to recently read about and follow the open wheel modifieds. As OWM's are not prevalent in my neck of the woods, in the mid-atlantic region, can someone tell me in laymen's terms what the basic differences are with the various sanctioning bodies throughout the country, UMP, IMCA, USRA & USMTS? I am assuming it has to do mostly with engines, wheels and body styles? Has the different rules with each group hurt the sport and car counts? In my opinion, the beauty of sprint cars and late models with basically uniformed rules throughout the country, is a car is legal at most tracks other than maybe a tire rule. Excuse me if this seems like a dumb question.

[calverton]

Sprints and late models have their differences also sprints 305 360 410 of course winged non winged late model crates 2 barrell open motors limited and even restricted/; spec motors

[93Nelson]

UMP, USRA/USMTS are more of an "open" rule packages compared to an IMCA car. USRA/USMTS is the same sanction and rules except for a rpm chip rule. Might be more but that's what I know. USMTS is the touring series and USRA is more of the weekly racing. UMP is somewhat comparable to them. IMCA is almost on their own deal. Motor rules are the biggest difference. It's hard to expain. Lol IMCA did allow a quick change finally a couple of years ago which helped.Tires are the next biggest difference between the three. Each sanction kinda has its own area with a few blend in spots. It would depend on the area to say if it hurts car counts or not.

[BTExpress]

"UMP, USRA/USMTS are more of an "open" rule packages compared to an IMCA car. USRA/USMTS is the same sanction and rules except for a rpm chip rule. Might be more but that's what I know. USMTS is the touring series and USRA is more of the weekly racing. UMP is somewhat comparable to them. IMCA is almost on their own deal. Motor rules are the biggest difference. It's hard to expain. Lol IMCA did allow a quick change finally a couple of years ago which helped.Tires are the next biggest difference between the three. Each sanction kinda has its own area with a few blend in spots. It would depend on the area to say if it hurts car counts or not."

Thank you....I assumed it was more on those lines

[BTExpress]

"Sprints and late models have their differences also sprints 305 360 410 of course winged non winged late model crates 2 barrell open motors limited and even restricted/; spec motors"

I was thinking more in terms of 410's and Super late Models which generally follow the same basic rules countrywide. A 410 sprint car from Central Pa could tow to a track in California and be legal to race.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Sprints and late models have their differences also sprints 305 360 410 of course winged non winged late model crates 2 barrell open motors limited and even restricted/; spec motors

Litey, That has absolutely nothing to do with what he's asking. He's asking about modifieds, not Sprints and Late Models. Nothing you said even mentioned modifieds nor had anything to do with them. Why don't you go login as $UMP$ and try to answer his question again.

Sometimes it depends on where the money is. Here you have UMP and IMCA. Both of the IMCA tracks get 25-30 cars both pay about $600-650 to win weekly. The UMP tracks get 12-15. They pay around $450-$500 to win weekly. If they are racing for $1k or $1500, guaranteed 25 show up.

[calverton]

I was stating the facts that all classes have their issues thank god we don't have imca but we do get 25 - 30 cars ump style imca cars are slower than our b mods usra ain't much better on ump tires LAST NIGHT HAD 32 A MODS 32 B MODS FOR 1K FOR BOTH

[stock car driver]

IMCA modified turnkey NEW best of the best 36-42,000
USMTS modified turnkey NEW 65-75k for average, more money for best of the best

[BTExpress]

wow......had NO IDEA that modifieds cost that much. I assumed they were in the 20 to 25K range. I think they run for $700 to $800 to win in the Mid-Atlantic region.

[stock car driver]

wow......had NO IDEA that modifieds cost that much. I assumed they were in the 20 to 25K range. I think they run for $700 to $800 to win in the Mid-Atlantic region.

20k will not buy you a new IMCA roller.


Weekly shows around Iowa Nebraska Mn Kansas 250-500 to win...

What you run for has nothing to do with what youll spend to race. You don't win any money fishing, golfing, bowling or most any other hobby.

[MI Dirt Fan]

wow......had NO IDEA that modifieds cost that much. I assumed they were in the 20 to 25K range. I think they run for $700 to $800 to win in the Mid-Atlantic region.

Cost money to run up front weekly. A front running full blown UMP mod can run close to the cost of a LM

Like I said the two IMCA mod tracks here pay $600-650 to win weekly.

[93Nelson]

^^^Stock car driver would know. Had 2 nice GRT cars, unless I'm mistakenly thinking your someone else. Lol

[calverton]

wow 25 -30 cars for imca 25-30 for 700 to win ump big difference

[rustymod]

A couple other items. IMCA and USRA actually tech cars. UMP does NOT tech cars. Also UMP tires are more expensive and do not last as long.

Also UMP is in Hoosiers back pocket 100% so anything Hoosier says on tires is what will happen since hoosier is paying the bills, to believe otherwise is false.

IMCA is steel heads ONLY.

USRA has a few engine options with weight breaks depending on which you run. aluminum heads are allowed.

UMP its run what ya brung for engines in fact used NASCAR motors are in order if you can float it.

In general there is ZERO tech other than body panels.

In UMP since the rules are so wide open no one really techs anything they will show up and look at your belts or cage a little but that its other than body panels.

Beware if UMP tech shows up they will go over your body panels as if your car was part of the Indy 500, but under the hood and suspension anything goes.

[LM14]

IMCA also requires a 1.75" diameter roll cage where others allow 1.50" cages.

Some allow no stock right frame rail where others require it to be no more than 36" from the rear axle.

SPark

[stock car driver]

A couple other items. IMCA and USRA actually tech cars. UMP does NOT tech cars. Also UMP tires are more expensive and do not last as long.

Also UMP is in Hoosiers back pocket 100% so anything Hoosier says on tires is what will happen since hoosier is paying the bills, to believe otherwise is false.

IMCA is steel heads ONLY.

USRA has a few engine options with weight breaks depending on which you run. aluminum heads are allowed.

UMP its run what ya brung for engines in fact used NASCAR motors are in order if you can float it.

In general there is ZERO tech other than body panels.

In UMP since the rules are so wide open no one really techs anything they will show up and look at your belts or cage a little but that its other than body panels.

Beware if UMP tech shows up they will go over your body panels as if your car was part of the Indy 500, but under the hood and suspension anything goes.

I know your primary goal is to put down ump.

But IMCA and USRA are sanctions and they don't tech cars, tech is done at the track level and some tracks do more than others, for the most part at both IMCA and USRA rolling across the scales and checking of the msd chip visually or dial is about all youll see. And of course they might glance at your tires. There are of course a few over achiever tech men here and there, but they are very few and far between.

As car counts drop, TECH also decreases, local tracks don't want to dq a driver and have suspend him and lose that car for xxx weeks as well as his buddies or others who were cheat the same way or more because now they fear being caught.

[calverton]

Rusty mod alway will knock ump its in his blood

[gumby_32d]

Cost money to run up front weekly. A front running full blown UMP mod can run close to the cost of a LM.
Thank you David stremme.

[calverton]

never seeen stremme win though

[93Nelson]

Didn't he sell a car of his for 75k last year or the year before? Can't remember for sure. He won with it then some guy bought it.

[calverton]

the team that finished 2nd in UMP buillt his own car family built built motor, lost the championship on the last weekend of racing

[BTExpress]

Again being a OWM neophyte, do the purses warrant drivers being full time racers? I am familar with names like Gustin, Sanders, Hughes, Thorton, Strickler & Hoffman, etc. but was not sure if they are full time racers or not?

[rustymod]

Rusty mod alway will knock ump its in his blood

perhaps. however you Lite Inn always kiss UMP's backside. Too bad you have nothing invested in the sport other than the PC you use to type on 4m.

Besides that you cannot factually argue against anything I posted on UMP its all true and exactly what racers at the track are facing and complaining about.

[rustymod]

I know your primary goal is to put down ump.

But IMCA and USRA are sanctions and they don't tech cars, tech is done at the track level and some tracks do more than others, for the most part at both IMCA and USRA rolling across the scales and checking of the msd chip visually or dial is about all youll see. And of course they might glance at your tires. There are of course a few over achiever tech men here and there, but they are very few and far between.

As car counts drop, TECH also decreases, local tracks don't want to dq a driver and have suspend him and lose that car for xxx weeks as well as his buddies or others who were cheat the same way or more because now they fear being caught.

So what you want but IMCA and USRA do push on local tracks to do tech. UMP does not, since you run IMCA I suspect you have not been to a weekly UMP track where no one looks at anything. At least at a local level IMCA will tech. Are you saying you are not teched with IMCA ??

[calverton]

Have you been to Ump track lately

[sirleafalot]

I have been to two of three last season and what I saw was local tech before and after the race at a MN IMCA track. On the UMP side they checked the belts and look quickly at back of car. I went to a USRA race to watch only and saw measurement of the front end inspection of the components. I have not seen this at UMP tracks ever.

[stock car driver]

So what you want but IMCA and USRA do push on local tracks to do tech. UMP does not, since you run IMCA I suspect you have not been to a weekly UMP track where no one looks at anything. At least at a local level IMCA will tech. Are you saying you are not teched with IMCA ??

I don't race any more sold out this year.

I was clear in what I said about IMCA and USRA.

And yes I have been at Ump tracks back when I ran stock car specials all over and they teched about the same as usra and IMCA, looked at tires, looked at 2 barrel carb and rolled across scales.

[Ryan21mid]

IMCA modified turnkey NEW best of the best 36-42,000
USMTS modified turnkey NEW 65-75k for average, more money for best of the best

I don't think there's quite that big of a spread between USRA and IMCA. We run USRA mods and for a brand new MB, which I would consider the best of the best right now, they're 25,000 rolling with shocks. By the time you add tranny, pumps, etc, you'd prolly be at 30-32k. Add a Mullins or Pro Power Spec Engine for 20k? I'd say race ready 50-55k.

In IMCA the only differences I see is the reverse mount pumps, tubular lowers, aluminum calipers, and engine. A top of the line 604 from Hendren or Friesen is around 10k? Race ready you'd have to be around 40k.

UMP is another story.

[calverton]

Long built his own car family built motor, just because you have top notch equipment won't make a winner many years exp and talent will win in any sanction

[calverton]

http://www.propowerracing.com/engines.html

[93Nelson]

Again being a OWM neophyte, do the purses warrant drivers being full time racers? I am familar with names like Gustin, Sanders, Hughes, Thorton, Strickler & Hoffman, etc. but was not sure if they are full time racers or not?

i would probably say they are as close to "full time" as you can get on this level. There's financial banking that is helping these guys along too. Whether it's a team owner and/or sponsors, family etc. I'm not saying there's something wrong with that. Just saying you probably couldn't make it just off the purse.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Every year IMCA officials visit each of the IMCA tracks, I'm assuming In their region, to inspect the cars for thier sake, to make sure the actual IMCA official is doing it correct and to get driver input on any possible changes for the future.

[rustymod]

Every year IMCA officials visit each of the IMCA tracks, I'm assuming In their region, to inspect the cars for thier sake, to make sure the actual IMCA official is doing it correct and to get driver input on any possible changes for the future.

exactly, IMCA does show up and they do push for tech at the local level heck even AMRA pushes for a local tech person that follows there rules. This does not happen in UMP at the modified level. It happens much more often in USRA and IMCA. To say otherwise means one of two things...One you go to the one or two UMP tracks where the track actually care enough to do there own tech or TWO you dont go to enough UMP tracks to see whats really going on.

Sam will send out a couple of emails to alert everyone about a race thats coming up and thats all. Its run what ya brung UMP style.

Lite Inn you keep typing about home built motors and cars how cheap it is with good skills to build your own car and compete, so why arent you doing it ?

Most winning at IN tracks are running Rhyne power engines at 15k or more to be able to compete Sure you may have some bright spots where a few can build there own engines but that is the exception and not the rule. Most are on Bull Power, Rhyne or other big money engine to keep up.

[stock car driver]

Every year IMCA officials visit each of the IMCA tracks, I'm assuming In their region, to inspect the cars for thier sake, to make sure the actual IMCA official is doing it correct and to get driver input on any possible changes for the future.

Wow, that is not true, If you were a IMCA member and read guys columns you would know that not all tracks are visited by IMCA. There are only 11 total IMCA employees, in columns its been mentioned its been xxx years since I attended a event etc. Many times.

Tom G who lives 20 minutes from me hits some tracks usually within driving distance. Brett, Kirk etc hit some but its laughable that you think they are as organized as you claim. They don't even have national rules like they claim, being in Michigan you should know that. You have tracks up there with a claim still and that never got a spoiler on the crate etc.

Not sure why this thread got so de railed, the guy asked the differences. None of the classes are cheap to race with the best stuff and run up front at the big specials.

[calverton]

You been at the bad tracks I know tracks that dropped Ump b mod class that is

[MI Dirt Fan]

Wow, that is not true, If you were a IMCA member and read guys columns you would know that not all tracks are visited by IMCA. There are only 11 total IMCA employees, in columns its been mentioned its been xxx years since I attended a event etc. Many times.

Tom G who lives 20 minutes from me hits some tracks usually within driving distance. Brett, Kirk etc hit some but its laughable that you think they are as organized as you claim. They don't even have national rules like they claim, being in Michigan you should know that. You have tracks up there with a claim still and that never got a spoiler on the crate etc.

Not sure why this thread got so de railed, the guy asked the differences. None of the classes are cheap to race with the best stuff and run up front at the big specials.

They come to MI every season. Usually in a truck pulling a small enclosed trailer with a golf cart in it. IMCA stickers on the truck and trailer. They're dressed in IMCA officials clothing and have New York plates. I've seen them working alongside the track IMCA official during pre race and post race inspections.

Drivers wanted the claim. When they went to the engine swap, the drivers requested to stay with the straight up claim and IMCA said yes. Before Tri- City opened. Crystal was getting close to 40 mods a week. Highest weekly average in the country for 2-3 yrs straight. I believe both tracks still get around 30 a week and I96 went back to IMCA this past season and was getting about 20.

[calverton]

Claims causes big problems

[stock car driver]

They come to MI every season. Usually in a truck pulling a small enclosed trailer with a golf cart in it. IMCA stickers on the truck and trailer. They're dressed in IMCA officials clothing and have New York plates. I've seen them working alongside the track IMCA official during pre race and post race inspections.

Drivers wanted the claim. When they went to the engine swap, the drivers requested to stay with the straight up claim and IMCA said yes. Before Tri- City opened. Crystal was getting close to 40 mods a week. Highest weekly average in the country for 2-3 yrs straight. I believe both tracks still get around 30 a week and I96 went back to IMCA this past season and was getting about 20.

Like I said, they don't have national rules like they claim.. I guess its easy to let a area have a voice if there are only 2 or 3 tracks. There are 60 approx. within 5 hours of my house.

[calverton]

if UMP doesn't tech how di that law suit come about , and why did tracks drop Ump last year in the b mods answer they were teching hard and finding thinks that weren't in the rule book

[calverton]

ump track tonight 25 Late Models 31 Modifieds 41 B Mods 15 Street Stocks 12 Pro 4s on hand.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Claims causes big problems

You with multiple user names causes problems

[MI Dirt Fan]

ump track tonight 25 Late Models 31 Modifieds 41 B Mods 15 Street Stocks 12 Pro 4s on hand.

And your point?

[93Nelson]

I race at IMCA tracks. It's really a hit and miss on tech from the track tech guy. There was one year the never pulled the hood off my car. Just walked around and looked at tires and shined a flash light around. Now if a IMCA employed tech guy like Tom or Kirk was there, totally different story. It depends on the track though, some tech more than others.

[hipower17]

i know of a few cars that run ump that are running alum. motors, then there are those that are running cheater tires, some have 10" wide rims, and seen a couple of cars with alum. rims. now this isn't at just one track but i've been to the pits at lots of mod races over the years and its amazing if you pay close attention to the cars what you will see. unless your in nascar tech is only a four letter word out here in the dirt world.

[calverton]

and your point?no point just the facts and yes they tech

[calverton]

i know of a few cars that run ump that are running alum. Motors, then there are those that are running cheater tires, some have 10" wide rims, and seen a couple of cars with alum. Rims. Now this isn't at just one track but i've been to the pits at lots of mod races over the years and its amazing if you pay close attention to the cars what you will see. Unless your in nascar tech is only a four letter word out here in the dirt world. really did them good didn't it did they win a championship nope

[MI Dirt Fan]

no point just the facts and yes they tech

How many other tracks near by this "mystery" track were also open

[calverton]

What is your point very few cars where outside the area or strangers

[MI Dirt Fan]

Point is, you can't answer my question

[rustymod]

i know of a few cars that run ump that are running alum. motors, then there are those that are running cheater tires, some have 10" wide rims, and seen a couple of cars with alum. rims. now this isn't at just one track but i've been to the pits at lots of mod races over the years and its amazing if you pay close attention to the cars what you will see. unless your in nascar tech is only a four letter word out here in the dirt world.

This is the norm at most UMP tracks

[calverton]

coming from a guy that went to 2 races last year and I would say for a show in late October that's not a bad car count , pretty close to car count all year long b mod weren't ump those because to much tech that's one class that need some help , the way read the article from Kenny Walled the man from the mountain in speedway ill its not how much you spent but how much effort you put in the program

[rustymod]

coming from a guy that went to 2 races last year and I would say for a show in late October that's not a bad car count , pretty close to car count all year long b mod weren't ump those because to much tech that's one class that need some help , the way read the article from Kenny Walled the man from the mountain in speedway ill its not how much you spent but how much effort you put in the program

Who in this thread is asking about UMP car counts ??? Lite Inn you keep mentioning car counts, this has ZERO to do with the simple fact that UMP does not tech cars. Thats is simple you can keep crowing about car counts but that does not change the facts. On top of all of this UMP is not doing anything for the class. If its so cheap and easy to run UMP then why arent you building a car ? you can post all the articles you want in UMP you need a 15k motor to compete and thats the truth anything else is a lie.

[calverton]

bull crap they do tech cars if you would show up you would see they do and who said it was cheap go hornet racing whoops scratch most of hornet drivers went bmod racing try getting a fullt dressed crate mote said crate motor for much less then that in fact tracks are dropping ump in the B mods because they are over teching thats right over teching

[rustymod]

bull crap they do tech cars if you would show up you would see they do and who said it was cheap go hornet racing whoops scratch most of hornet drivers went bmod racing try getting a fullt dressed crate mote said crate motor for much less then that in fact tracks are dropping ump in the B mods because they are over teching thats right over teching

yeah yeah lite inn everyone on this board knows that at the two tracks you go watch at the car counts are highest in the land and UMP techs every car. Too bad is not like that at most UMP tracks. You are clueless however on the money it takes to build a competitive engine in UMP. If its so cheap to do then why are sitting in the stands ?

[calverton]

2 tracks try 6 tracks with region tell that to MR LONG or MR HARRISON neither ran the high dollar xyz motors and only 1 ans 2 in points so try again besides you still have to hook it up and know how to drive

[calverton]

yeah yeah lite inn everyone on this board knows that at the two tracks you go watch at the car counts are highest in the land and UMP techs every car. Too bad is not like that at most UMP tracks. You are clueless however on the money it takes to build a competitive engine in UMP. If its so cheap to do then why are sitting in the stands ?why am I SETTING THE IN STANDS MAYBE 60 YEAR OF AGE MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO WITH IT

[rustymod]

why am I SETTING THE IN STANDS MAYBE 60 YEAR OF AGE MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO WITH IT

thanks for answering your own question. Sitting in the stands for 60 years does not make you an authority of the costs or running in class. Try going out and buying a UMP mod motor that will compete from any Major builder, Mullins, Bull Power, Rhyne, and you will soon discover that this land of make believe you type about on 4m is nonsense. Clearly the stands is exactly where you belong. You are certainly an expert on buying hotdogs, sodas etc. All of those you have been buying. When's the last time you paid for a UMP mod engine ? Those writing the checks for these kinds of engines will tell you that its in line with 15k.

[Ryan21mid]

I would say 15k is on the low end for a UMP engine. As for the b-mod class UMP is not over-teching, that's hilarious though. UMP is going to ruin the class is what they're doing! I ran it and have since switched to USRA due to their stupidity, they're phasing out all motors except the crates and have a terrible set of rules, that is why Fayette County and Highland dropped the sanction! Guys quit going to I-55 because they told them they couldn't run chain limiters at all on the rear end over HALFWAY thru the year! And all a chain is doing is saving your shocks by limiting travel, especially on an over-slung car. Took them that long to tech something that can be seen at a glance! So much for your over-teching theory! UMP is doing nothing but screwing the pooch on that deal. They need to open their eyes and put some thought into their rulebook and actually start teching. It's all about their pocketbooks, kickbacks from GM for crates, kickbacks on their shock rules, it never ends! How many tracks are there for UMP B-Mods now? 5 is pretty close! What a joke.

[calverton]

You switched because you live in mid Mo don t you

[Ryan21mid]

Yes I live in mid-mo, we are dead center between UMP and USRA country, we switched because the b-mod rules weren't the same anywhere you go in UMP country. USRA we can go to any track that they sanction and the rules are 100% the same, no matter what class, no exceptions. The tire rules don't deviate depending what track you go to, its just overall a much better ran deal than UMP by a landslide.

[Bmod141]

UMP over-teching the B Mods. LOLShows how LITTLE you know!

[calverton]

I am in the pits every week how about you

[rustymod]

why am I SETTING THE IN STANDS MAYBE 60 YEAR OF AGE MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO WITH IT

Poor excuse lots of drivers 60 plus. Also with all the knowledge and information you claim to have saddle up build that cheap engine and chassis and get a driver and show us all how it's done since you know so much

[team jarvis]

I would say 15k is on the low end for a UMP engine. As for the b-mod class UMP is not over-teching, that's hilarious though. UMP is going to ruin the class is what they're doing! I ran it and have since switched to USRA due to their stupidity, they're phasing out all motors except the crates and have a terrible set of rules, that is why Fayette County and Highland dropped the sanction! Guys quit going to I-55 because they told them they couldn't run chain limiters at all on the rear end over HALFWAY thru the year! And all a chain is doing is saving your shocks by limiting travel, especially on an over-slung car. Took them that long to tech something that can be seen at a glance! So much for your over-teching theory! UMP is doing nothing but screwing the pooch on that deal. They need to open their eyes and put some thought into their rulebook and actually start teching. It's all about their pocketbooks, kickbacks from GM for crates, kickbacks on their shock rules, it never ends! How many tracks are there for UMP B-Mods now? 5 is pretty close! What a joke.Right on this communist greedy plot by ump to force crates on bmods is bs. It will be the death of bmods for ump. Rules vary not sure who runs ump but they running bmods into ground.

[calverton]

GOD we hope so UMP has to many classes as it is m which begs the question why were the dropped at tracks years ago , well before UMP or any other sanction thought of running them

[swartzman]

Delmas Conley comes to mind on the age part, and still winning.. he blows the age excuse clean out of the sky..

[calverton]

Poor excuse lots of drivers 60 plus. Also with all the knowledge and information you claim to have saddle up build that cheap engine and chassis and get a driver and show us all how it's done since you know so much what championships have you won lmao

[Ryan21mid]

GOD we hope so UMP has to many classes as it is m which begs the question why were the dropped at tracks years ago , well before UMP or any other sanction thought of running them

B-Mods are arguably the biggest class USRA and IMCA have right now, yet UMP can't seem to figure it out for some reason!

[Bmod141]

Fred, I race at these tracks you keep posting about, so Yeah.. every week I'm in the pits and dealing with it first hand. Want to try again?

[calverton]

Yeah sure you show us the results i am from missouri

[Bmod141]

I know where you are from dumb@ss, I mean dirthound. You go to the STL local tracks. I55, Tri City etc etc. You are worse than Dirt Boy!

[rustymod]

Yeah sure you show us the results i am from missouri

None are going to show you anything. Anyone that even owns or fields a mod have way better results than anyone sitting in the stands. Besides you lite inn are the one on here telling everyone one how cheap and easy ump is. So why aren't you racing ???

[buzzxxx666]

Yeah sure you show us the results i am from missouri

LIte inn, Dirthound, your results were easy to locate, talked to I-55 and they said.

2016 Season
Finished 2nd in Hamburger consumption
Finished 3rd overall in soda pop consumption
Finished 8th in Cotton Candy purchases.

Any one else have Lite Inn's results from tracks other than I-55.

[calverton]

Ryan you do know that I55 and. Macon are the only UMP b mod tracks

[calverton]

none are going to show you anything. Anyone that even owns or fields a mod have way better results than anyone sitting in the stands. Besides you lite inn are the one on here telling everyone one how cheap and easy ump is. So why aren't you racing ??? who said racing was or should be cheap if you want something cheap try checkers

[calverton]

lite inn, dirthound, your results were easy to locate, talked to i-55 and they said.2016 seasonfinished 2nd in hamburger consumptionfinished 3rd overall in soda pop consumptionfinished 8th in cotton candy purchases.any one else have lite inn's results from tracks other than i-55. we can see you don't go the track most tracks don't sell cotton candy and you didn't talk to anybody

[calverton]

none are going to show you anything. Anyone that even owns or fields a mod have way better results than anyone sitting in the stands. Besides you lite inn are the one on here telling everyone one how cheap and easy ump is. So why aren't you racing ???why aren't racing or for that matter even show up at the track

[calverton]

i know where you are from dumb@ss, i mean dirthound. You go to the stl local tracks. I55, tri city etc etc. You are worse than dirt boy!name some other tracks betcha you can't

[rustymod]

who said racing was or should be cheap if you want something cheap try checkers

You are clueless. You lite Inn you are the one on here typing about something you know ZERO about. You are the village idiot on this post trying to tell us that engines are less the 15k in UMP to compete.

THIS is all on you. You are the one here claiming that running UMP is cheap. So get out here and show us otherwise no one cares about the lies you type. You dont race and never have, you NO clue what it costs.

It costs big money to run UMP. You Lite Inn are the one on the post suggesting engines are less than 15k.

You have no clue you do not race and never stick to what you know buying hot dogs.

[rustymod]

why aren't racing or for that matter even show up at the track

you dont race at ANY track so put down the bottle of booze and quite typing on 4m.

[calverton]

and you don't show up a race but you are the know it all , hey do you think the national champ has a trick nascar motor or aluminum motor I OVER HEARD HE DID

[rustymod]

and you don't show up a race but you are the know it all , hey do you think the national champ has a trick nascar motor or aluminum motor I OVER HEARD HE DID

Where i race or what I own is none of your concern. Everyone on this board and STL racing where you were banned and you will soon be banned on 4m know that you dont race and never have. What you know about racing would not fill a thimble.

[calverton]

you don't race don't lie if you did would brag about about great you are but you don't answer the question did the national champ run a nascar motor like you claim many in ump do

[rustymod]

Why dont you post us your results and locations where you race first, show us all what a HERO you are. Stop worrying about everyone else and show us your stuff first.

[calverton]

I am not worried one bit the national champion won with a motor built by the UMP Crate rebuilder not some fancy all nascar alum motor lmao 5 time national champion to boot

[Bmod141]

Dirt hound, you mean Belleville, Highland, Fayette, tri city, i55? Or do you want to include Charleston, Macon, Jacksonville and the other tracks just outside of the stl metro? We're also friends on Facebook dip(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word). You are a train wreck of a person.

[Bmod141]

Rusty, he doesn't race. He's an old bastard who sits and the stands and runs his mouth. Misery loves company. And on that note, I'm done acknowledging him!

[calverton]

Dirt hound, you mean Belleville, Highland, Fayette, tri city, i55? Or do you want to include Charleston, Macon, Jacksonville and the other tracks just outside of the stl metro? We're also friends on Facebook dip(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word). You are a train wreck of a person. you are not even close oh my GAWD

[calverton]

rusty, he doesn't race. He's an old bastard who sits and the stands and runs his mouth. Misery loves company. And on that note, i'm done acknowledging him!so where is your championship lmfao that's right still on milk crates

[rustymod]

so where is your championship lmfao that's right still on milk crates

Lite Inn Dirthound aka useless Jack@ss. I am done with you post what ever you want. you dont race never have best you can accomplish is coming on 4m and insulting those that own cars and race. note to moderator sent good luck with your next screen name. adios

[calverton]

Lite Inn Dirthound aka useless Jack@ss. I am done with you post what ever you want. you dont race never have best you can accomplish is coming on 4m and insulting those that own cars and race. note to moderator sent good luck with your next screen name. adios insulting how by telling the truth and how know you do or do not race and I DON'T THINK IT A A REQUIRMENT TO BE ON THIS BOARD DO YOU THINK

[team jarvis]

Lite Inn Dirthound aka useless Jack@ss. I am done with you post what ever you want. you dont race never have best you can accomplish is coming on 4m and insulting those that own cars and race. note to moderator sent good luck with your next screen name. adios Time for ModSr1 to step in again and ban Calverton...AGAIN how many users names does the same loser have.

[calverton]

why because I SPEAK THE TRUTH

[$$UMPMOD$$]

Post a link to liteys Facebook page :)

[calverton]

yeah go ahead

[$UMP$]

I see ol Graham is at it again! Lol