leaf car questions

[Wrenchead84]

hey everyone. thanks in advance for the help.so we bought a nova last year did pretty well in it, 3 feature wins..., anyway, this year i want to step it up a bit. i have yet to scale the car cause i know nothing about the % to run.----ill start with the car3200# rule lead allowed - we weighed closer to 3380 at the track---900 LF 1000RF----200 LR 175RR----we will be using QA-1 this year (havent yet) 7/7 LF 7/3RF 3/5 LR 4/4 RR. --- 215/225/235 70 series 15" tires allowed 7" wheels beadlock ok. --- we run 225's on left and 235's on right so far. -- 2" offsets in front 3 " in back - in feature we normally go to 2" LR with 1/4" - 1/2" for tightening. -- track is 1/4 mile high banked - usually rough and very dry slick for feature. --- problems i noticed last year - car was tight in center which made us loose off exit. we added a spacer to the LF and moved some lead high and to the Right Rear which seemed to help, but im still looking for more bite as others can get into the gas harder and sooner than i can . making me need to run them down-- what do you guys think?? i hear all these tricks with cutting and modifying leafs and using different control arms up front to help with cast/camber but i don't know what they are

[klv8lm]

Are you leading the LR at all?

[Wrenchead84]

im guessing youre talking about rear steer? rearend is square within 1/16th of an inch

[klv8lm]

Put the LR ahead 3/8". I would also put 2" offsets on both left side tires and 3" offsets on right. How much stagger are you running? You really need to scale the car to know how much LR bite you have and how much rear and cross is in the car.

[Wrenchead84]

Put the LR ahead 3/8". I would also put 2" offsets on both left side tires and 3" offsets on right. How much stagger are you running? You really need to scale the car to know how much LR bite you have and how much rear and cross is in the car.i starting to realize the scaling is super important. i have yet to scale the car. other than knowing how much lead i had to add to be legal. running a 225 on the left and a 235 on the right, i'm guessing the stagger is a little over 1/2"

[Wrenchead84]

I should also mention the car is currently getting a new rear frame an built. So it's in the tear down phase. But I need a starting point for my percentages for when we start putting lead back in the car

[klv8lm]

This is just a starting point and you will have to go from there 52-53 % rear. 51-52% Left and 51-52 % cross. Also Measure your tires, I have seen an inch difference in the same size tire, try to get 2" if you can.

[Wrenchead84]

sounds good thank you. ill re-post once the car is back together and we get it on the scales

[Wrenchead84]

also, with the weights i have posted, would it be better to go with a softer front shock setup like a 5/5 LF 5/3 RF or keep the firmer ones i posted earlier which were 7/7 LF 7/3 RF??

[klv8lm]

Try both and see what you like better.

[Wrenchead84]

That's a costly venture . What would running the softer shocks do vs. the stiffer shocks

[klv8lm]

Softer shock will speed up the motion

[Wrenchead84]

So more dive and more weight transfer?

[klv8lm]

Not really more, just quicker..

[Wrenchead84]

Put the LR ahead 3/8". I would also put 2" offsets on both left side tires and 3" offsets on right. How much stagger are you running? You really need to scale the car to know how much LR bite you have and how much rear and cross is in the car.wont leading the LR make the car even more loose on exit?

[hogracer3d]

old school way to check for bite is to lay a socket on its side on the pad of the floor jack, center the jack on the rear end bump, then jack it up carefully (takes some practice) and you should see the LR tire come off the ground 1st, then continue until you can just barely slip paper under the RR tire. Then measure the gap under the LR.
then make your adjustments and watch how the measurement changes. the more the gap the tighter it'll be, the less the gap the looser.
kind of OKIE, but when you don't have scales, it's better than nuttin, lol

[superstock50]

Are you sure you don't have that backwards? The RR should rise first because the LR has more weight on it (bite).

[Wrenchead84]

^^^ thats what i was thinking??

[hogracer3d]

Are you sure you don't have that backwards? The RR should rise first because the LR has more weight on it (bite).

LOL, I do, My apologies !

[ALF401]

My first time around a race car and we didn't know anything about set ups. A late model guy told us to bring our car to his shop and he would help us. He said we had to start every weekend with a base line and he recommended the Budweiser set up!! Lol he took a bud can and the right front ride height was set at the top ring on the beer can, the left front 1/2" less. Then he did as described above with a jack and a steel bearing, the first step was when the tire on the left rear cleared the ground, you rolled the can under the right rear, it should just clear the tire. If still loose after that then the next week, adjust till you can stand the can up. Made a world of difference in the car. Course the very first thing he did was line the front end up with camber, caster and toe. Our car was a Nova with leaf springs and the right rear shock was critical.

[RCJ]

That guy was very smart.Late models are a lot more complicated that stock cars, maybe I should bust out a 12 pack next time I'm setting up mine.

[Wrenchead84]

i love old school garage stories like that. gives a simple guy like me hope. still trying to figure out how im gonna come up with $1000 for scales after building a brand new car

[Krooser]

You need Ruggles scales...

[ka_jd7and1]

i love old school garage stories like that. gives a simple guy like me hope. still trying to figure out how im gonna come up with $1000 for scales after building a brand new car

You buy someone (like me) some beer and borrow them for a weekend.

You can find decent used ones for $500/600 too.

Are you going to the Bako swap meet in January?

[Wrenchead84]

most likely.. haven't found anything in that price range worth buying..yet id be more than willing to trade beer for scale time... who is this?

[ALF401]

Grain scales that weigh up to a 1000 lbs was at one time cutting edge tech. They still work and if you can find them they are usually cheap. Just use a known weigh and calibrate them. Also make sure the they are level with each other. It's hard to overcome shortage of money, I know. But be smart with what you have and you will be surprised what you can do!

[let-r-eat]

2 pieces of cardboard and a good tire gauge and you can get the weights pretty close without scales. Figure the Square Inches of the contact patch and X by the tire pressure.

[over4T]

Decco hydraulic wheel weight scale, $189.99 from Speedway Motors. Old school and low tech but if you can add/subtract it'll work. Back in the day everyone had one.

[stock car driver]

Scale prices have came way down you can buy good quality wired scales for 800 even less in some cases.

[ALF401]

I went back and looked at you original post and my thoughts are you might help drive off the corner with a 225 rr spring and a 3/3 rr shock. We had a lot of luck with a stiff rr spring and soft shock, especially on a rough track.

[Wrenchead84]

got the first of two cars on the scales last night. we were able to create a starting point of 48% cross, 53% left and 53% rear total weight 3345. class req. 3200 minimum.. question is, how can i get the total weight down w/o compromising the percentages??

[Wrenchead84]

were also looking to bring the cross up above 50%

[ALF401]

What size lowering blocks for the rear springs are you using? How much fuel to get 53% rear? Lots of variables to get the %'s right.

[Wrenchead84]

2" backspace wheels on both front tires and left rear. 1/2" spacer on left rear 1/4" spacer on the left front . 3" backspace on RR. 225/70r15 tires on left side. 223/70r15 right side. 25lbs in right side tires, 17 lbs in left side. 1" lowering block on both left and right rear. this is our basic dry track main event set up. 12 gallons of fuel.

[powerslide]

got the first of two cars on the scales last night. we were able to create a starting point of 48% cross, 53% left and 53% rear total weight 3345. class req. 3200 minimum.. question is, how can i get the total weight down w/o compromising the percentages??

look for 100 ways to remove a pound instead of 20 to remove 5. Stock cars have a lot of needed sheetmetal.

[Wrenchead84]

OK I HAVE NUMBERS TO POST, on the second car. this one is not a new car. just finished doing a back half. total weight 3350lb. left percentage 54%. rear percentage 51.3%. cross 51.7%. bite 194lbs. this is with 25lb of air in both right side tires 15lbs in LF. and 17lbs. in LR. 2" offset wheels on fronts and LR and 3" offset on RR.

[Wrenchead84]

got the first of two cars on the scales last night. we were able to create a starting point of 48% cross, 53% left and 53% rear total weight 3345. class req. 3200 minimum.. question is, how can i get the total weight down w/o compromising the percentages??in response to this car. car drove great. its a crate motor car so it had good traction and nice pull out of the corner. handled really nice. i wont be the regular driver so i will these this one be as the reg driver is new to the class

[Wrenchead84]

OK I HAVE NUMBERS TO POST, on the second car. this one is not a new car. just finished doing a back half. total weight 3350lb. left percentage 54%. rear percentage 51.3%. cross 51.7%. bite 194lbs. this is with 25lb of air in both right side tires 15lbs in LF. and 17lbs. in LR. 2" offset wheels on fronts and LR and 3" offset on RR.this car drove in decent but was loose off. we ran the setup above with 1/4" spacer in LF and LR.