Tires

[dirt farmer]

Probably stupid question but what's wrong with letting team's groove an super tires.I know about the doping an all but can't see what's wrong with letting team's groove tires or grind em

[Ryan21mid]

Time. The amount of time we're spending cutting tires every week is astronomical. I'd say it also puts everyone on a more level playing field if everyone has uncut tires.

[TheJet-09]

I'm hoping they adopt it as a rule for weekly racing, because yes, the time that can be spent on tires alone is astronomical. And my team consists of me and my 12 year old son, so time is limited to begin with.

[atoz promoters]

I thought grooving and siping were allowed at every place for super late models? The only place that does not seem to have grooving and siping around here is crates. Was also told that it extends the life of the tire.

[zyoung25]

For eldora in June it took me and the guy I help, it took 2 full days to get all the tires mounted, grooved, buffed and siped, we took 16 tires if I remember right. In September we took about the same number, and it took us about 6 hours. That's even breaking down a few old tires and putting new on.

If most knew the process, and how much time it took to do that stuff, it would be easier to understand. I've been around racing all my life, and until this last year did I realize how much actual work is involved.

[calverton]

did the tires last longer

[dirt farmer]

I'd always heard made tires last a little longer and tire company's were behind the new rules

[JimBo]

Grooving and sniping tires is very time consuming. If you have ever spent time doing it you know it is also very boring. I would like to see it illegal at all levels. It is supposed to build up and dispatch heat faster. I don't think it makes a tire last longer. Grinding tires removes the glaze off the tire from the heat cycle and is very benifical.

[heinen81]

I would have to imagine a properly siped tire would extend the life of a tire by better controlling the heat cycle. If you sipe too deep and for the wrong conditions, and it chunks out... that's a different story. Grooving and siping is all part of the game, take the time, do your homework and take advantage of the benefits. Don't start making this a lazy mans sport. Yes tire prep (not chemicals) is hard work and time consuming.... but so is racing in general. Don't change the landscape because something just takes "too much time and work". I am a tire guy, trust me it sucks in the middle of summer, but its all part of it.

[W2Racing09]

I would have to imagine a properly siped tire would extend the life of a tire by better controlling the heat cycle. If you sipe too deep and for the wrong conditions, and it chunks out... that's a different story. Grooving and siping is all part of the game, take the time, do your homework and take advantage of the benefits. Don't start making this a lazy mans sport. Yes tire prep (not chemicals) is hard work and time consuming.... but so is racing in general. Don't change the landscape because something just takes "too much time and work". I am a tire guy, trust me it sucks in the middle of summer, but its all part of it.

I don't think it is about being lazy. People would find another hobby if they were lazy, because Grooving/Siping or not racing takes more work than just about any other sport/hobby there is. The problem is that a lot of the people who have the money to race, have very demanding jobs and the amount of time stuff like this is taking makes being able to race impossible. The sport needs those people to be out on the track because car counts are so low just about everywhere.

[heinen81]

No I get where you are coming from... but in all honesty especially come Amain time, I don't know how much a difference it really honestly makes. I work on a 410 sprint car team, and allot of WOO/AllStar teams will mount up new rears about 10 minutes prior to pushing out, untouched, and they don't seem to be any worse off. I do feel its worth grinding and siping used tires prior to the amain... but will it knock you out of contention if you don't? doubtful.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Time. The amount of time we're spending cutting tires every week is astronomical.

So? What's the point? Everyone gets the same amount of time between events.

Not buying it.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Probably stupid question but what's wrong with letting team's groove an super tires.I know about the doping an all but can't see what's wrong with letting team's groove tires or grind em
We are trending more and more to rules that reward wallets and attempt to discredit know how. The reasons are numerous.

[Ryan21mid]

So? What's the point? Everyone gets the same amount of time between events.

Not buying it.

Some of us have full time jobs. When you're working 8-6, 5 days a week and have to spend 20+ hours a week cutting tires, that leaves very little time to touch the racecar, much less fix damage and make improvements. We race at the local/regional level and have considered several times trying to pay someone to help with tires but its just not in the budget. If you aren't 110% on your tire game these days, you're getting beat by someone who is. Some people have full-time crew guys, yes even at the local level, so the notion that everyone gets the same amount of time between events isn't exactly true. Time is money. But we'll continue to make the most out of what we're given.

[Ryan21mid]

No I get where you are coming from... but in all honesty especially come Amain time, I don't know how much a difference it really honestly makes. I work on a 410 sprint car team, and allot of WOO/AllStar teams will mount up new rears about 10 minutes prior to pushing out, untouched, and they don't seem to be any worse off. I do feel its worth grinding and siping used tires prior to the amain... but will it knock you out of contention if you don't? doubtful.

Sprint car tires seem to be much softer than DLM and modified tires so cutting and siping them isn't as beneficial. Another factor is a DLM relies on mechanical traction where sprints produce the majority of their traction with the wing. In late model and modified racing, there's a huge difference between cut and uncut tires.

[heinen81]

Good points, however to that point... the race this year where late models were issued tires prior to the event, (total brain fade on which race) it would be interesting to see if the lap times had fallen off compared to years past in which they could groove and sipe. I know there are several factors that come into play (weather, track conditions, ect) but it would be interesting to see in lap times, what the difference could be. My guess come amain time, siping would prove more valuable than grooving in terms of firing the tire quicker, and then controlling temps. Yes grooving gives you more edges... but costing you contact patch area when you need as much grip as possible.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Good points, however to that point... the race this year where late models were issued tires prior to the event, (total brain fade on which race) it would be interesting to see if the lap times had fallen off compared to years past in which they could groove and sipe. I know there are several factors that come into play (weather, track conditions, ect) but it would be interesting to see in lap times, what the difference could be. My guess come amain time, siping would prove more valuable than grooving in terms of firing the tire quicker, and then controlling temps. Yes grooving gives you more edges... but costing you contact patch area when you need as much grip as possible.

It was the North South. They issues RR tires only. Track was much faster than typical so can't compare.

[heinen81]

It was the North South. They issues RR tires only. Track was much faster than typical so can't compare.

Well there goes that idea then lol. Thanks for the info tho!

[Jim11h]

Tires are the most important part of the car. Their the only thing touching the track. If their not right then no setup will ever be at it's fastest. I'm all for rules to regulate them and make fair for all but hard tires not the answer

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Tires are the most important part of the car. Their the only thing touching the track. If their not right then no setup will ever be at it's fastest. I'm all for rules to regulate them and make fair for all but hard tires not the answer
The more they are regulated, the more you get cheated by the competition.

[Jim11h]

I can't disagree with that statement. It's well known some people get things others can't

[Bubstr]

The No groove no sype 20 rule seem to be fan friendly. If the track is up to it and the format hasn't put the fast cars in front, there have been some good races. They are all on the same tire, so the race fan really doesn't know the difference. One thing, the softer tire should eliminate most of the soaking. It does promote, taking care of the tire wear some.

[zyoung25]

did the tires last longer

Actually they did. That kinda depends on the driver too and how aggressive they are.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I can get some many more races out of grooved and siped tires. Whether its a LM tire, Mod tire or the Street Stock/Sportsman tires.

[dirty bert]

OK I might see the no cutting an no siped deal but I think no grinding rule is going to far.i mean how long does it take to grind a tire

[MI Dirt Fan]

OK I might see the no cutting an no siped deal but I think no grinding rule is going to far.i mean how long does it take to grind a tire

Same time it takes me to groove OR sipe a tire.

[zyoung25]

If youre saying it takes the same amount of time to groove and buff a tire, you're wrong, hate to tell ya. One person can buff a tire in a matter of mins, grooving.....NAH.

[Centeroff]

The question I always wondered was the wrapping of the tires. Any proof that wrapping a tire makes speed? I mean you buff them after every Hotlaps, and qualifying anyway. It started a few years ago but I'm not 100% sold on it. Only thing I can think of is wrapping keeps a chemical you could get on the tire off of the tire that could possibly make you fail the dreaded tire prep test??? Who knows!

[calverton]

wrapping the tires keeps the oils in the tire not foreign oils

[calverton]

Actually they did. That kinda depends on the driver too and how aggressive they are.I knew that at the world some drivers were astonished how the tires looked

[MI Dirt Fan]

If youre saying it takes the same amount of time to groove and buff a tire, you're wrong, hate to tell ya. One person can buff a tire in a matter of mins, grooving.....NAH.

How can I be wrong if I've done it?

[dirty bert]

If youre saying it takes the same amount of time to groove and buff a tire, you're wrong, hate to tell ya. One person can buff a tire in a matter of mins, grooving.....NAH.I've seen some guys buff tires while there class is lineing up an still make it in time.He must have a mighty slow grinder.

[Bloomerdirtking]

Rubbin er down with sand paper lol

[zyoung25]

How can I be wrong if I've done it?

It tells me that my guy wouldn't want you anywhere near his tires.


I've seen some guys buff tires while there class is lineing up an still make it in time.He must have a mighty slow grinder.

I think you read my post wrong. I said a guy could grind one in a matter of mins, but grooving is a different story, unless you're MI Dirt Fan I guess.

[calverton]

i would n't let MI dirt fan touch my lil red wagon lol

[MI Dirt Fan]

With the right tools and work area you'd be surprised how quickly stuff can be done.

[calverton]

They want quality not quantity

[MI Dirt Fan]

They want quality not quantity

Isn't it about time for you to go make a new username

[swartzman]

Here we go to having to have new tires on everytime you go onto the track again.. i am sure the tire manufacturers are going to be behind it..

[late96]

Seems that's what Wissota has done to us with the tire we now have. No grooving or siping, and the original grove will be gone after a feature. Some guys are changing between heat and feature already

[Bubstr]

I can get some many more races out of grooved and siped tires. Whether its a LM tire, Mod tire or the Street Stock/Sportsman tires.

This doesn't even sound close. First, a grooved and syped tire flexes more that one that is not. Flex creates heat. Heat promotes tire wear. To counteract this, tires are ground to stop some of the flex. This in it's self shortens tire life. It's a never ending circle of procedures that promote tire wear, not extend it.

As some races are no groove or sype and some are not, with the good tire wear you get from un-cut tires, you could groove them for the next race and get back your edges and have a tire that punches just a little harder that original, due to heat cycle. A few new grooves and/or sypes and you have a good tire for a local show. That would be the best bet for tire wear.

[vande077]

personally the ONLY tire rule I am in favor of us you must use the same tires all night (makes tire selection actually matter because you have to time trial on it, run your heat, run a dash if the series has one, and run the main).

Someone may be willing to give up a fast time trial knowing they will have the best tires for the feature while someone else will want to start up front in the heat hoping they can "nurse" their tires to the end of the feature.

Makes passing actually happen because everyone is on a different agenda.

Allowing teams to change tires anytime they want costs teams a lot of $$$ IMO. making it so that decision is made right after hotlaps (or before) means no worry about giving the teams time to break down tires and mount new ones between every race. What they have on is what they are running PERIOD.

As far as grooving and siping goes, let them, but it's not allowed until after the heat races are complete.

Penalty for changing a tire (unless it gets cut DURING a race) would be starting last in the feature and no series points for that event (or track points for weekly racers, UMP points, etc., etc.).

[dirty bert]

I think swartzman is right you going too have to keep new ones on especially if you can't buff em, sure tire company's are loving this deal. You eather keep new ones on are get out of the way

[calverton]

You can buff them worked pretty good this last weekend and at the world AND VANDEO77 they have done your way in our area and most of the teams want to go one step further and go the no siping and grooving way

[Krooser]

Funny... 30 years ago we never touched our tires… run any compound you wanted. Then tire soaking came into vogue…

[MI Dirt Fan]

This doesn't even sound close. First, a grooved and syped tire flexes more that one that is not. Flex creates heat. Heat promotes tire wear. To counteract this, tires are ground to stop some of the flex. This in it's self shortens tire life. It's a never ending circle of procedures that promote tire wear, not extend it.

As some races are no groove or sype and some are not, with the good tire wear you get from un-cut tires, you could groove them for the next race and get back your edges and have a tire that punches just a little harder that original, due to heat cycle. A few new grooves and/or sypes and you have a good tire for a local show. That would be the best bet for tire wear.

6-7 years ago I grooved a set of tires for a guy during the week. They already had 2 weeks on them. Non LM. He paid me $20 a tire. He got 4 weeks out of them after that. I regrooved 2 of them after 3 weeks. 2 were still easily usable after the 4 weeks. Won 3 features and 2 heat races. 6 weeks total on the same set of tires. I've also siped tires for LM guys who have won alot of features. I came up with the multi blade siper tool long before it was on the market. Was a secret tool i used. Never thought it would be available to buy. To speed up the process i will sometimes use 2 tire groovers to work a tire.

Never soaked any though. It can be too risky. Although I know guys who do.

Loose lips, sink ships.

[Mams]

Doug Drown used the same set of tires that were neither grooved nor siped two weeks in a row at Attica & won both weeks (including hot laps, heats & features). He did it in preparation for the new rules for this year's World 100. LM20's & LM30 RR. Guess it depends on the driver & track surface.

[calverton]

Exactly Krooser and different makes tires combo

[Stede Bonnet]

Some of us have full time jobs. When you're working 8-6, 5 days a week and have to spend 20+ hours a week cutting tires, that leaves very little time to touch the racecar, much less fix damage and make improvements. We race at the local/regional level and have considered several times trying to pay someone to help with tires but its just not in the budget. If you aren't 110% on your tire game these days, you're getting beat by someone who is. Some people have full-time crew guys, yes even at the local level, so the notion that everyone gets the same amount of time between events isn't exactly true. Time is money. But we'll continue to make the most out of what we're given.

Maybe allow groove/sipe/needle right rear only and grind the rest... Would this help and still leave room for skills in that area?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Here we go to having to have new tires on everytime you go onto the track again.. i am sure the tire manufacturers are going to be behind it..
There are guys that do that now. It will be impossible to compete with used tires you can't cut and freshen up a bit.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I knew that at the world some drivers were astonished how the tires looked

I was not astonished at how poorly they performed.

[Josh Bayko]

Funny... 30 years ago we never touched our tires… run any compound you wanted. Then tire soaking came into vogue…

I crewed with a team 30 years ago, albeit in a division other than late models. Dudes were juicing then, too. It's hardly a new phenomenon.

[fastford]

grooving and siping is something about any one can learn to do that actually could save the budget racer money, this whole conversation is the problem and where racing is headed , ie: every one run the same tire, everyone run the same shocks and rear configurations, every one run the same engine, everyone run the same body that the series tells you to buy from a specific manufacturer, you must run the seat they tell you to run , next they will be telling you what each tire has to weigh, where does this end? starting to sound more and more like nascar to me, no innovation allowed unless every one can have it , remember the davenport deal? when it gets to this point, then im through.......

[calverton]

I was not astonished at how poorly they performed.wth friday night was wasn't great lol were they a lil slower yes but the racing was off the chart sat night the track was not the same but go ahead blame the tires and guess what butter cup it soon will be the rule

[calverton]

grooving and siping is something about any one can learn to do that actually could save the budget racer money, this whole conversation is the problem and where racing is headed , ie: every one run the same tire, everyone run the same shocks and rear configurations, every one run the same engine, everyone run the same body that the series tells you to buy from a specific manufacturer, you must run the seat they tell you to run , next they will be telling you what each tire has to weigh, where does this end? starting to sound more and more like nascar to me, no innovation allowed unless every one can have it , remember the davenport deal? when it gets to this point, then im through.......you want racing at the next level well here it is

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

grooving and siping is something about any one can learn to do that actually could save the budget racer money, this whole conversation is the problem and where racing is headed , ie: every one run the same tire, everyone run the same shocks and rear configurations, every one run the same engine, everyone run the same body that the series tells you to buy from a specific manufacturer, you must run the seat they tell you to run , next they will be telling you what each tire has to weigh, where does this end? starting to sound more and more like nascar to me, no innovation allowed unless every one can have it , remember the davenport deal? when it gets to this point, then im through.......
Those 7 or 8 top teams get what they want when it comes to rules. Monkey stuff up so they can have penske build them a way around the rules so the local guy won't beat them. Go to no groove tires so they don't have to work as hard. Then the photographer and the meter reader put it in the Lucas rules and all the series around the country think it is great for their racers too. It is flat disgusting!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

wth friday night was wasn't great lol were they a lil slower yes but the racing was off the chart sat night the track was not the same but go ahead blame the tires and guess what butter cup it soon will be the rule

The cars were slow as hell because of the tires. And yes. It will be the rule because the elite teams want it. And the lower series will foolishly follow along.

[calverton]

wrong the weekly racers want it at least in my area they do which is UMP and that's 4 tracks right there

[calverton]

The cars were slow as hell because of the tires. And yes. It will be the rule because the elite teams want it. And the lower series will foolishly follow along.really now https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=sgm&hsimp=yhs-sgm_fb&hspart=SGMedia&p=eldora+world+100+friday+night#id=1&vid=521064e62e237f8a6bcdec01d050c089&action=click

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

really now https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=sgm&hsimp=yhs-sgm_fb&hspart=SGMedia&p=eldora+world+100+friday+night#id=1&vid=521064e62e237f8a6bcdec01d050c089&action=click

Yes they were. And they robbed Erb with it.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

wrong the weekly racers want it at least in my area they do which is UMP and that's 4 tracks right there

Is that so? Who? Bobby and Frankie Jr?

[calverton]

No rusty griffaw some guy named zorbist kloos westling most of the mod guys most those guys have a 9-5 job and don't want to work on tires all week they might have a l ife out side of racing frankie jr doesn't run weekly

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

No rusty griffaw some guy named zorbist kloos westling most of the mod guys most those guys have a 9-5 job and don't want to work on tires all week they might have a l ife out side of racing frankie jr doesn't run weekly

It wouldn't be the first time I saw guys vote against their best interest. But I don't know those guys budgets.

[calverton]

Griffaw does'nt have a big budget kloos does or seems to zorbist has a good size budget or seems to but also has a 3 car team plus to mods and a couple street stocks he finished 6th both nights at the dome with a 2006 rocket plus hauler is not what it looks like either its scraps pieced together

[westlingracing]

Calverton is right, actually the real fast guys that should be touring are the only ones that have whined about changing to a non groove and sipe rule. Super lates around here are as competitive as it gets. Tire prep is where it's all at. I say run 20s all 4 corners and allow sanding and that's all we need. If we go to a harder tire then we will have more juice being used. Stay with a 20 and there will be less juice being used. Might have a few lose a rr but might teach them not to abuse them like they do with the 40s.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Calverton is right, actually the real fast guys that should be touring are the only ones that have whined about changing to a non groove and sipe rule. Super lates around here are as competitive as it gets. Tire prep is where it's all at. I say run 20s all 4 corners and allow sanding and that's all we need. If we go to a harder tire then we will have more juice being used. Stay with a 20 and there will be less juice being used. Might have a few lose a rr but might teach them not to abuse them like they do with the 40s.

I will take your word for your area, but I think our area is where it is at. We don't worry about everyone cheating if we run the tires that work for us and can keep using them as long as we want to.

Just realize you will get beat by those 20s that can go 100 laps at Atomic. Figure out how long and what temp to put them in a big oven and you might be ok.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Litey only gets his info when the guys come in to the parts store to buy car parts.

[Clayton_Wetter]

really now https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=sgm&hsimp=yhs-sgm_fb&hspart=SGMedia&p=eldora+world+100+friday+night#id=1&vid=521064e62e237f8a6bcdec01d050c089&action=click

You just proved master's point.

[grt74]

going to no sipe,no groove = more time to work on the car, the next complaint that i have would be all the different tire compounds, have a soft, med,hard and be done with it, myself I'm in the middle of hell when it comes to tires, we have to have a truck full to race, some tracks are 1350-1600 some are lm20-30-40 some are 1350 spec -1600 spec and even then some will let you run 1450's,ive always have said this, tires are my biggest complaint,because we all have jobs, hell I've spent 1 1/2 to 2 days on tires for a two day weekend,
im all for the no sipe,no groove, to me its an even playing field(as far as tires), then you don't have to worry about siping them wrong or cutting them up to much

[calverton]

you just proved master's point.really clayton friday portion of the world 100 were considered races 1 and 2 of the year by dirtondirt

[calverton]

Grt74 ump their tire rule 20s on all but the right rear where you can 20 or 40s that was the tire rule for the world and gateway

[calverton]

litey only gets his info when the guys come in to the parts store to buy car parts.i am at the a track every weekend and it the pits after the races only been their since the late 70's

[calverton]

i will take your word for your area, but i think our area is where it is at. We don't worry about everyone cheating if we run the tires that work for us and can keep using them as long as we want to.just realize you will get beat by those 20s that can go 100 laps at atomic. Figure out how long and what temp to put them in a big oven and you might be ok.you mean like 20s at the lil race in rossburg also

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

really clayton friday portion of the world 100 were considered races 1 and 2 of the year by dirtondirt

And the track was wet for 20s....

We were talking about saturday

[calverton]

calverton is right, actually the real fast guys that should be touring are the only ones that have whined about changing to a non groove and sipe rule. Super lates around here are as competitive as it gets. Tire prep is where it's all at. I say run 20s all 4 corners and allow sanding and that's all we need. If we go to a harder tire then we will have more juice being used. Stay with a 20 and there will be less juice being used. Might have a few lose a rr but might teach them not to abuse them like they do with the 40s.great post

[westlingracing]

Other thing is what works in the St louis area won't work in other areas. And even track to track here is different. So I do believe it needs to be done regionally or locally.
Dirt and clay content and abrasiveness can be dramatic.

[Clayton_Wetter]

really clayton friday portion of the world 100 were considered races 1 and 2 of the year by dirtondirt

You changed the date, we were talking about the World 100 that was Saturday when the track turned to black glaze.

[calverton]

I changed no date you assumed and you know what happens when you assume saturday the track was not at its best with the weather and all you could've ran open tire rule and got the same results and it was thursday night the track was extremely wet and the track was junk it didn't get over till 3 0r 4 am

[Centeroff]

For one time in my life I will agree with Litey. Wrestlingracing is saying that even if the track conditions call for a little harder than the 20, if the 20 is the rule on all four corners that's what everyone has to run. If they juice it will soften the tire and will for sure not make the 30-40 laps whatever that particular track runs. On the other hand, mastersbuiltracer is right also, a big oven will do the trick and we all know what a racer will do to win. I'm all for an open tire rule personally but the local racers just don't have the deep pockets to keep up with the big names with the backing. Thought I would never say it but the no groove, no sipe rule is the way to go and ink it didn't hurt the racing at Florence or the world 100 a bit. Tires is a subject that will go on for years and years. When the rules get sharp the teams get sharper.

[calverton]

Not even a oven lay the tires out in the sun

[Centeroff]

Calverton, now your wrong. If you let the tires soak up the sun it will actually soften the rubber. People cook tires in an oven to just below melting point, remove the tire and let it cool and will actually punch 5-15 points harder. Baking the tires is an old go kart trick for a track with a tire rule. Especially on those locked down day races. Back in the day we just had 2-3-4 year old tires we ran and naturally the same compound tire was a little harder. Nowadays these tracks check the dates on your tires so you can't run the old/ hard stuff. That's where the old oven comes into play. I guarantee a few on here know exactly what I'm talking about lol

[calverton]

As long as you don't put that special sauce from tennesee on them they would be legal, my question why do they wrap the tires

[cutman]

Those 7 or 8 top teams get what they want when it comes to rules. Monkey stuff up so they can have penske build them a way around the rules so the local guy won't beat them. Go to no groove tires so they don't have to work as hard. Then the photographer and the meter reader put it in the Lucas rules and all the series around the country think it is great for their racers too. It is flat disgusting!

The meter reader 😂. I heard he is gone from Lucas.

[Stede Bonnet]

grooving and siping is something about any one can learn to do that actually could save the budget racer money, this whole conversation is the problem and where racing is headed , ie: every one run the same tire, everyone run the same shocks and rear configurations, every one run the same engine, everyone run the same body that the series tells you to buy from a specific manufacturer, you must run the seat they tell you to run , next they will be telling you what each tire has to weigh, where does this end? starting to sound more and more like nascar to me, no innovation allowed unless every one can have it , remember the davenport deal? when it gets to this point, then im through.......

I agree, but there is a generation coming along that has been trained and educated to think this way, that we should all strive for mediocrity, not excellence. I like open tire rules, I left karting when all the "same-same" rules came along. In my early years I soaked and treated tires(it was legal), but as I found out how bad it could be for you I changed strategy and bought more compounds. I learned how to read the clay and chose the right tires for the conditions and actually ran better than when I was focused on treating harder rubbers to make them softer.

[fastford]

i dont have a problem with spec tires, i think they do save the budget racer money, and i dont believe in doping, but grooving , siping and grinding creates competition and may be time consuming , but i have more time than i do money.

[superstock79]

The tire debate in dirt late model racing is insane! It never ends. Just let them do whatever they want to the tires and be done with it! At the end of the day, the fast drivers will still be fast, and the slow drivers will still be slow.

[Necrosis]

Calverton, now your wrong. If you let the tires soak up the sun it will actually soften the rubber. People cook tires in an oven to just below melting point, remove the tire and let it cool and will actually punch 5-15 points harder. Baking the tires is an old go kart trick for a track with a tire rule. Especially on those locked down day races. Back in the day we just had 2-3-4 year old tires we ran and naturally the same compound tire was a little harder. Nowadays these tracks check the dates on your tires so you can't run the old/ hard stuff. That's where the old oven comes into play. I guarantee a few on here know exactly what I'm talking about lolReally, just below melting point, huh? What is, in your experience, the melting point of a racing tire like we run in DLM's? And soaking up sun? Surely you don't intend to have us believe that exposure to ozone and UV-initiated oxidation are performance aids? For the people wondering about wrapping tires, it's simple. #1-less exposure to sunlight, UV. This keeps the light end esters and aromatics used in production from degrading. #2-You can unload, roll through tech, etc, and not get your tires all frickin muddy.

[Necrosis]

As an addendum, the sun is fine short-term, especially when trying to grow a tire for stagger, but that's about it. It is in no way comparable to an oven.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Really, just below melting point, huh? What is, in your experience, the melting point of a racing tire like we run in DLM's? And soaking up sun? Surely you don't intend to have us believe that exposure to ozone and UV-initiated oxidation are performance aids? For the people wondering about wrapping tires, it's simple. #1-less exposure to sunlight, UV. This keeps the light end esters and aromatics used in production from degrading. #2-You can unload, roll through tech, etc, and not get your tires all frickin muddy.

Aromatics? We want to keep the tire smelling fresh?

[Highside Hustler25]

For all the tire experts on here, Josh Richards and Best Motorsports are looking for a highly motivated tire specialist for the 2017 season. You're also gonna have to wash the rig.:D

[Necrosis]

Aromatics? We want to keep the tire smelling fresh?RAE's (residual aromatic extracts) make up most of your common plasticizers in tire manufacturing, and aromatic hydrocarbons (-ene's) are widely used as well. They are the chemicals that experience degredation the quickest when exposed to UV/Ozone. I'm sensing a fair bit of sarcasm, as surely this isn't news to you. Seems Centeroff decided to forgo his instructor duties today. A true shame!

[Centeroff]

Necrosis, if you have never baked a tire to harden it, I'm doubting you ever seen a racecar. Oldest trick in the book. Since my post offended you, google it so you can prove yourself wrong!

[Centeroff]

http://www.pulloff.com/phorum/read.php?2,220995,221010 Necrosis, this isn't the beginners only thread. Or no it all!

[calverton]

Did you even read the page mighty big oven for ntpra tires lmao

[Centeroff]

You can bake any tire. That was the first thread that popped up. Not saying it's legal but it's done quite often especially at the tire rule tracks. I have done a many ss11 Burris kart tires myself. Just an old trick to harden a tire.

[Centeroff]

http://www.4m.net/archive/index.php/t-175266.html Read this thread. Hillbilly deluxe knows what he is talking about. You bake a tire correctly it will punch 5-10 points harder.

[Necrosis]

You said right below the melting point, idiot. I have a VERY nice oven rotisserie that'll fit 4 tires, use it often. I want you to tell me what that temperature is that you say is effective, and what the melting point is. Because NONE of the dedicated tire ovens can get to even half the melting point of these tires. Again, made to look foolish, OffCenter. I promise you there are a few here getting quite a laugh out of this, as a few here KNOW how much tire "research" I've been involved in lately. And you still fail to recognize the ultimate irony of our little exchanges... But it's too funny to stop.

[buster83]

it seems like someone whined about it claim unfair competition with the tires and after 60 years here we are but if u came this far and know what it does when it will happen for the driver u wonder why they even show up cause u r taking away a little of the drivers comfort zone.

[Stede Bonnet]

Calverton, now your wrong. If you let the tires soak up the sun it will actually soften the rubber. People cook tires in an oven to just below melting point, remove the tire and let it cool and will actually punch 5-15 points harder. Baking the tires is an old go kart trick for a track with a tire rule. Especially on those locked down day races. Back in the day we just had 2-3-4 year old tires we ran and naturally the same compound tire was a little harder. Nowadays these tracks check the dates on your tires so you can't run the old/ hard stuff. That's where the old oven comes into play. I guarantee a few on here know exactly what I'm talking about lol

I only ever cooked my tires to increase roll-out, never to change hardness. Heat and UV rays are the enemy of rubber, it pulls the oils out of the rubber and shortens the tires life.

[calverton]

He knew that lmao

[Centeroff]

Necrosis, the melting point of rubber is 180 degrees Celsius or roughly 357ish Fahrenheit. I called and asked a man who knows. You set your oven on 350 and there is a rotisserie in his particular oven. You rotate the tire for 25 minutes at 350 degrees, take the tire out for 10 minutes and rotate the tire 2 more times at 350 for 25 minutes. It may pull the oils out, it may make a heluva entrée, I don't know?? The man is a regional champion in a super late model and this is the way they harden their soft tires. Your gonna argue with a man that knows. I'm not oldfag or calverton, I'm not on her typing for the hel1 of it. That is the exact not a Guess, but the exact formula a champion regional racer uses to harden his soft compound tires!

[Centeroff]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1E6IfdUJn6s

[Necrosis]

Oh really? Local Champ is your source? Ohh the irony, it's melting point is so high! Who's opinion in all of DLM racing would you value most when it comes to tires? Serious question!

[Barbecueboy]

Oh really? Local Champ is your source? Ohh the irony, it's melting point is so high! Who's opinion in all of DLM racing would you value most when it comes to tires? Serious question!

I go to huskerdirt and Jeff .

[Nasty55]

I go to huskerdirt and Jeff .




Come on now Brother you forgot the other expert..... The StLouis Sidewalk Slider Litefooted Flaming Faller Litey Oldfag Perverton!

[oldfart50]

Come on now Brother you forgot the other expert..... The StLouis Sidewalk Slider Litefooted Flaming Faller Litey Oldfag Perverton! Still here? Really?

[Barbecueboy]

Still here? Really?

And he is going to outlast you.......#karmachameleon

[Clayton_Wetter]

As long as you don't put that special sauce from tennesee on them they would be legal, my question why do they wrap the tires

Speaking of special sauce, you keeping getting it all over your keyboard, you pervert!!!! :)

[Clayton_Wetter]

I changed no date you assumed and you know what happens when you assume saturday the track was not at its best with the weather and all you could've ran open tire rule and got the same results and it was thursday night the track was extremely wet and the track was junk it didn't get over till 3 0r 4 am

http://runitlikeamom.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Shut-Up.jpg

[Clayton_Wetter]

Those 7 or 8 top teams get what they want when it comes to rules. Monkey stuff up so they can have penske build them a way around the rules so the local guy won't beat them. Go to no groove tires so they don't have to work as hard. Then the photographer and the meter reader put it in the Lucas rules and all the series around the country think it is great for their racers too. It is flat disgusting!

Agreed!!!...

[Clayton_Wetter]

i am at the a track every weekend and it the pits after the races only been their since the late 70's

So when are you going to start learning something??? Geeeeeeessshshhhh!!!

[a25rjr]

So when are you going to start learning something??? Geeeeeeessshshhhh!!!

Such as walking without tripping.....or......typing with punctuation and capitalization????

That might be 2 too many things for his brain to fathom at one time! lol

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Such as walking without tripping.....or......typing with punctuation and capitalization????

That might be 2 too many things for his brain to fathom at one time! lol

Whats your talent....... chewing gum and walking?

oh wait we know!

[calverton]

wow GOD has spoken I am very disapointed

[a25rjr]

Whats your talent....... chewing gum and walking?

oh wait we know!

Yep.....and custom outhouses for my hud customers! :)

[calverton]

yep.....and custom outhouses for my hud customers! :)clayton wetter and cirf should be calling you any day now

[Clayton_Wetter]

Why?......

[Nasty55]

Still here? Really?






Ya know what you cynical old fuker my last post isnt me at all because im a motherfuking man not some little punk b!tch like you that likes to poke and run.... Im Going to say this to you one time and one time only OLDMAN You best keep your eye's peeled from here on out because if the fukn Moderators dont want to take care of you then ya best go take a look OLDMAN at what my Occupation was for the past 25yrs so dont think for one minute that finding you is an issue period! At first your sh!t was kind of humorous because you was like some drunkin alcoholic that would get on here and run your d!ckbeaters for a little bit of an arguement But when you found out that i was actually dying your worthless fuk you wanted to step it up and take it to a personal level and now im tired of your sh!t and am going to strike you back and oh yeah OLDMAN you are going to feel it and feel it hard because when you touch that keyboard one of these days and you just get the Blue screen of Death or you try to Swipe that screen on that smart phone and it go crazy think of me..... i will flip your screen upside down... i'll flip it sideways.... you will be calling your computer repaishop crying like a little B!TCH and going to your cellphone carrier crying like a little B!TCH saying my cellphone wont work i think it has been hit.... Think about me..... The Name is Dale Green if you want to call the police B!tchboy because at this point i dont give 2 fuks!!!

[racingumpire]

Probably stupid question but what's wrong with letting team's groove an super tires.I know about the doping an all but can't see what's wrong with letting team's groove tires or grind em
I got a suggestion to the no grinding or grooving rules!!!! Don't use Hoosier tires or American Racers if you not allowed to groove or grind. In essence,take a few weekends off till they change the rules back or all racers sit out on strike so to speak till it gets changed back. No tire sales at all should help change things a bit.Just my 2 cents worth.Racers need to stick together or boycott.

[zyoung25]

Oh really? Local Champ is your source? Ohh the irony, it's melting point is so high! Who's opinion in all of DLM racing would you value most when it comes to tires? Serious question!

You do realize that you're arguing with someone that claims they know a lot of what goes on at planet zero right? :D

[Josh Bayko]

Why are you talking to yourself?

[harborfreighthero]

sorry first post here, but why would you want to harden soft tires? to pass a durometer test?

[Bubstr]

sorry first post here, but why would you want to harden soft tires? to pass a durometer test?

Good question, If you had a soft 20 rule and worried about wear. Harder tires flex less, flex causes heat and heat causes wear. Cooking the 20 would reduce flex, therefore reducing wear.

Grooving and sypeing creates more edges, but also flex. Sometimes you want more edges and don't want to give up wear. Especially for tracks that don't clean off easily.

For the black ice tracks, you may want less grooves and more surface area. If it's abrasive, cook it. If not keep them soft. There are 50 million combinations to choose from. It's just fine tuning the tire.

From the hints we got from the Dream's illegal tires, these guys didn't expect to get busted for something missing. They probably just cooked something out of them. or got a special run tire from distributor. Too bad the rule said must meet the benchmark, not no added chemicals.

I don't think anyone really knows, what rules are best for the sport. If someone has a better idea, it should be allowed. If that idea costs too much or is dangerous, cut it. I don't think every racer should have to drive a cookie cutter car and turn the racing into NASCAR snooze fests.

[harborfreighthero]

Good question, If you had a soft 20 rule and worried about wear. Harder tires flex less, flex causes heat and heat causes wear. Cooking the 20 would reduce flex, therefore reducing wear.Grooving and sypeing creates more edges, but also flex. Sometimes you want more edges and don't want to give up wear. Especially for tracks that don't clean off easily.For the black ice tracks, you may want less grooves and more surface area. If it's abrasive, cook it. If not keep them soft. There are 50 million combinations to choose from. It's just fine tuning the tire.From the hints we got from the Dream's illegal tires, these guys didn't expect to get busted for something missing. They probably just cooked something out of them. or got a special run tire from distributor. Too bad the rule said must meet the benchmark, not no added chemicals.I don't think anyone really knows, what rules are best for the sport. If someone has a better idea, it should be allowed. If that idea costs too much or is dangerous, cut it. I don't think every racer should have to drive a cookie cutter car and turn the racing into NASCAR snooze fests.Thank you for the explanation. I agree that its hard to come up with the perfect solution, and also we don't want the rules to make it cookie cutter and have to drive a cookie cutter car. With the grinding and siping I see sometimes, I wonder who actually knows what it does or if its just to do what the next guy is doing. Not in the big time DLM world or anything but the local racer, I'm sure the big time guys know more of what they are doing or what they are trying to achieve than the local guy

[Nasty55]

sorry first post here, but why would you want to harden soft tires? to pass a durometer test?



Yeah first post my A$$..... Maybe first post on a new user name...... Just sayin

[oldfart50]

sorry first post here, but why would you want to harden soft tires? to pass a durometer test? Everyone has to have a first post at some point, no need to be sorry about it...

[Barbecueboy]

Why are you talking to yourself?

You were a little early on this one Josh.........I think it fits now......see above

I do like the screenname though, pretty creative.

[harborfreighthero]

I have never posted here before and just found this site and reading about two weeks ago. Not trying to stir anyone on here.

[Nasty55]

I have never posted here before and just found this site and reading about two weeks ago. Not trying to stir anyone on here.




I apologize then harborfreight just seemed like your point of posting here the first time was something alot of us had seen and heard before from a certain poster before is all... Enjoy and have some fun up around here bud...

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

I have never posted here before and just found this site and reading about two weeks ago. Not trying to stir anyone on here.


Thats my job !!! Welcome to 4m hfhero!

[Barbecueboy]

Still say the screenname is great........I can relate.

[Josh Bayko]

You were a little early on this one Josh.........I think it fits now......see above

I do like the screenname though, pretty creative.

No, Litey had one post, than another answering himself under the same screen name. He clearly deleted them after I called him out on it.

[calverton]

yes that's right the quote I wanted did 'nt come thru, it happens

[Barbecueboy]

yes that's right the quote I wanted did 'nt come thru, it happens

Everybody gets tripped up every now and agin......no big deal

[harborfreighthero]

I apologize then harborfreight just seemed like your point of posting here the first time was something alot of us had seen and heard before from a certain poster before is all... Enjoy and have some fun up around here bud...No worries, I just read through the thread and decided to finally make an account to ask some questions
Thats my job !!! Welcome to 4m hfhero!Thanks man!
Still say the screenname is great........I can relate.haha had a harbor freight flyer right in front of me and was making a list of the cool top shelf quality (not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) I don't need in it haha and it came to me!

[Necrosis]

You do realize that you're arguing with someone that claims they know a lot of what goes on at planet zero right? :DI did forget about that, lol... Maybe that's the local champ he's referring to? I'm still waiting for him to tell me the melting point of irony...

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

I did forget about that, lol... Maybe that's the local champ he's referring to? I'm still waiting for him to tell me the melting point of irony...


Hell be on sooner than latter w some news.
Hes prolly going to race shops talking to teams and drivers for the latest info.