Lift bar

[MBR Performance]

Has anyone tried the Neuline lift bars? https://www.neulineco.com

[billetbirdcage]

Has anyone tried the Neuline lift bars? https://www.neulineco.com

Similar to what CJ did a year or 2 ago. I'm not a believer

[TheJet-09]

While I'm not an engineer, I don't think their claim of the "push vs. pull" is the possible difference in performance as much as the change in anti-squat based on the height of the point at which it pushes/pulls on the chassis is.

It's different so they'll sell some.

[lindsey97]

I know a guy that put one on his car about mid season last year, he likes it. Haven't done a before and after stop watch, but it didn't seem to slow him down any.

[zeroracing]

I've seen the ads, watched the videos, similar boat to Billet on it thus far. Little pricey for me to buy just to check it out... i wonder how hard it is to put in a car (fabrication required) and how easy it is to bind up.

[cjsracing]

I have one. I tried it a few times. It did give awesome forward drive (almost to much), however, my car was erratic on entry with it. Being a one man band I don't have the time to work out the bugs and went back to my normal 5th arm setup. If I had help with the fine tuning I would use it again, but with my limited time and resources I had to just go back to what works. I would sell it pretty cheap if someone wanted it, just PM me.

Curt

[Matt49]

The video claims, "if your looking for forward bite, look no further", and from the looks of the video, I didn't see any hardly any travel in this unit, and no shock control either, what we run nowadays requires the rear to move up wards in atleast 3" to 4" so rear moves back to the right during this "upward motion" and without the rear moving aggressively upwards doesn't allow everything to happen like it should, i.e. getting barred up, hats off to innovation but looks like a fad to me, there is all the traction you need in a lift bar set up and then some.

Uhh....What?

[MBR Performance]

No I agree with Matt49 on this one. What??

[keeks]

I think what RH is trying to say is, maybe the front attachment point is looking pretty solid, so perhaps limiting the action of rear steer as the LR hikes and RR compresses?

But seriously though, that was pretty hard to read. No need to get all pissy.

[TheJet-09]

^^^ I don't think anyone was picking on you...it did take me a couple of times in reading your post before I understood it (at least I think). If I'm not mistaken, when you are referring to the "rear" moving, you're talking about the chassis moving up and to the right, which many refer to as the rearend actually moving forward (LR) and to the left (as in left vs. right, underneath the chassis)? But maybe based on post #11, you're talking about moving the front of the liftbar up when the car is static (on jack stands), and the rearend moves to the right? Which it will with a J-Bar mounted frame/left.

Either way, all is good.

[BNaylor91s]

The video of the Neuline Arm is from my car. That was put on my 08 Seingarm Rayburn that was absolutely horrendous in the slick (as advertised for swingarms). It was very easy to mount, given my old man is a welder. It took maybe 45 minutes to assemble. We have tested it on that car. We were running an all steel 434 with the supers. We ran well with it and it helped my car tremendously. It did reduce travel in the rear but we took time to play with the shims (the ones they gave us and using different bump stops). I am sold on how it worked on our Rayburn. We picked up .16 avg per lap with it. Nothing crazy but took us from an avg 8-10 car to a 6-8 (local shows).As for 4 bar, we will have an answer this season. We have a 2014 Blue Rocket that we ran the 2nd half of the season. We will be spending a day at the track testing the 5th coil set up and then putting the Neuline on. We will be clocking both sessions and will get a legitimate answer on if it helped us with this new car or not

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I have one. I tried it a few times. It did give awesome forward drive (almost to much), however, my car was erratic on entry with it. Being a one man band I don't have the time to work out the bugs and went back to my normal 5th arm setup. If I had help with the fine tuning I would use it again, but with my limited time and resources I had to just go back to what works. I would sell it pretty cheap if someone wanted it, just PM me.

Curt

I think you would have a lot of trouble fixing that issue.

[JustAddDirt]

Might need a dampener shock to help with the recoil of the bushings. Most generally with what looks to be rubber biscuits they do not generally recoil like a coils pring does, but it might be worth a shot.
There are a lot of benifits to controlling pinion movement up and down, because it also moves rear end side to side. Which can sometimes made it difficult to get the car to scotch up if the pinion is raising and falling a lot. Rr tire kind of gets shocked with side to side monment( just my opinion though)
Probably why it helped on the Rayburn car on poser above. The pinion rotated a lot on those Rayburn pullbar. This probably helped the car a lot on corner entry.

[RacerX10]

This thing isn't going to do anything you can't already do with the lift arm we've been using for a couple decades.

Nothing to see here folks.

[Matt49]

I wasn't trying to pick on anybody...I seriously didn't understand what was being said...my apologies.

That being said, I am not sure that less upward travel of the lift bar would affect rear steer. It appears that the rear end is free to move since the Neuline lift arm has heims at the rear end. Unless we are saying that it is binding at a certain amount of left-right angle.
Now on the front part, it does appear that the lower joint is going to have some restrictions on how much side to side angle it can get and that (I think) would be the same as the angle of the rear end (when viewed from behind) to the chassis...which is pretty significant.
The hole thing seems a lot less articulate (maybe not the best word) than a traditional lift bar setup. Not bashing the product at all, just not sure how it will perform.

[MBR Performance]

It's a lot of money to spend on something that may or may not help.

[MBR Performance]

This would have been a great item before the LR behind suspension.

[MittenMadman]

We purchased one at the PRI show and trying it out on a 15' BWRC. All of our race tracks up here are very dry slick(minus I96) and we are just trying to find speed in the slick. If this is the worst money we spend racing I think we would take it haha. Will post some feed back when we get to test it out.

[Kromulous]

Same boat, my brother wants to try one so were gonna weld it in...

Seems like the theory to me is less movement in the front, but more controlled. Damper shock might be in order, like Justaddirt said. We shall find out this coming season.

Question about lift bars in general, the two pick up points on the rear end, should they be in the middle of the track width of the rear end?

Our car last year would never max out travel on the LR, even thou i had massive amount of droop in the pits. Even started limiting the RR droop, it helped but i always fought it to get the LR up all the way. I noticed with the body off in the shop, that the Lift bar was off to the RR tire by about 1 inch. I thought maybe thats the culprit, not sure.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Same boat, my brother wants to try one so were gonna weld it in...

Seems like the theory to me is less movement in the front, but more controlled. Damper shock might be in order, like Justaddirt said. We shall find out this coming season.

Question about lift bars in general, the two pick up points on the rear end, should they be in the middle of the track width of the rear end?

Our car last year would never max out travel on the LR, even thou i had massive amount of droop in the pits. Even started limiting the RR droop, it helped but i always fought it to get the LR up all the way. I noticed with the body off in the shop, that the Lift bar was off to the RR tire by about 1 inch. I thought maybe thats the culprit, not sure.

People argue if the lateral location of the lift bar has any effect on the car. It sure does with a pull bar. I don't think you are barking up the right tree, however. It is either a bind, lack of enough lr anti-squat, or some sort of roll center+CG issue.

[TheEngineer]

You should have the lift bar mounted in proportion to the Left Side %, if you run 52% LS, then the lift bar should be attached 52% of the distance from the LR to the RR.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

If your lift bar only moves the 5th coil shock grommet 1", your forward traction stops there, the more the shock compresses, the harder and faster the car is propelled forward, just because your lift bar is located at 38", doesn't mean your getting all the traction available, propel your race car forward by allowing the lift bar to travel 3 1/2" like they have always told us to.

Your forward traction stops when the tires get shocked loose. Any travel works if the tires stay hooked. You can go really soft, have tons of travel, and no traction.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

You should have the lift bar mounted in proportion to the Left Side %, if you run 52% LS, then the lift bar should be attached 52% of the distance from the LR to the RR.

Why does that matter?

[TheJet-09]

Didn't GRT try that with their lift bar that went around the driveshaft and mounted to the rearend on the left side? I was taught that the determining factor isn't necessarily where the bar mounts to the rearend, but rather where the spring (5th coil) is in relation to the rearend (side to side)...or laterally I guess. Didn't Rayburn have a short pullbar that mounted to the left side of the rearend, and also connected to the chassis on the left side of the driveshaft? I'm only vaguely familiar with Rayburn's so I apologize if incorrect...

[Kromulous]

MB Racer, what do you mean by LR anti-squat? (Static or overall bar angle?)

I started playing with the rear RC alot, and LS %. The last race of the year i had re-set the car to a 52% LS but we didnt get to run it, so i dont know if thats gonna help it.

This year, i am gonna raise the fuel cell up max, try the low LS % (We were at 53.5% btw), and map the front RC location and make arrangements to change it if needed.

I am interested in this Lift bar location math from the "Engineer" up above, care to expound on that more?

Thanks, Krom.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

MB Racer, what do you mean by LR anti-squat? (Static or overall bar angle?)

I started playing with the rear RC alot, and LS %. The last race of the year i had re-set the car to a 52% LS but we didnt get to run it, so i dont know if thats gonna help it.

This year, i am gonna raise the fuel cell up max, try the low LS % (We were at 53.5% btw), and map the front RC location and make arrangements to change it if needed.

I am interested in this Lift bar location math from the "Engineer" up above, care to expound on that more?

Thanks, Krom.

By anti squat, I mean everything lifting the rear of the car. The bars, the spring when it is in play, lift from the torque arm, etc.

[CCHIEF]

Lay under your car supported by frame on jackstands, fifth coil shock removed, rr coilover removed. Lr hanging on travel limiter,RR jacked up to simulate dynamic ride height when exiting /cornering Lift and return to static position the lift bar and note what the entire rear axle assembly does! The amount of travel the 5th coil or whatever you bolt there's travel has has a pretty substantial influence on handling/tracking overall dynamically, not just traction to the rear ties from leverage.

[MachineMasters]

Would a solid 5th coil not provide more traction? I understand the drivability argument.. but in theory, wouldn't solid provide the most torque to the rear tires?

Or is the 3.0-3.5" of 5th coil travel that's been mentioned important? I can see the rear end being moved towards the passenger side of the car (which moves the LR tire under the car) due to pinion wrap-up, but is it really that much movement? And does this movement really help with traction?
I see how the LR tire is further in-board and therefore there's more "bite", but the RR tire is not as far inside of the RF tire at that point so wouldn't that free the car up?

[billetbirdcage]

Anyone that has said they have one and are going to do some testing and report back: I urge you that before you just switch a STD T/A vs this devise and say testing done, that you also test a STD T/A with a similar rate on the 5th coil as the bushing before saying one is better then the other.

[billetbirdcage]

Would a solid 5th coil not provide more traction? I understand the drivability argument.. but in theory, wouldn't solid provide the most torque to the rear tires?

It in fact does, unless your a complete throttle stompper


Or is the 3.0-3.5" of 5th coil travel that's been mentioned important? I can see the rear end being moved towards the passenger side of the car (which moves the LR tire under the car) due to pinion wrap-up, but is it really that much movement? And does this movement really help with traction?
I see how the LR tire is further in-board and therefore there's more "bite", but the RR tire is not as far inside of the RF tire at that point so wouldn't that free the car up?

Rear end movement will have and effect on the car

[keeks]

I just see that solid 5th (bushings) as a potential bind. Aren't we constantly trying to find and fix binds?

[Matt49]

Lay under your car supported by frame on jackstands, fifth coil shock removed, rr coilover removed. Lr hanging on travel limiter,RR jacked up to simulate dynamic ride height when exiting /cornering Lift and return to static position the lift bar and note what the entire rear axle assembly does! The amount of travel the 5th coil or whatever you bolt there's travel has has a pretty substantial influence on handling/tracking overall dynamically, not just traction to the rear ties from leverage.

Also note how much the pinion mount of the j-bar moves up. I think this if often overlooked or simply not even considered.

[Kromulous]

I see alot of Mod guys out west are now running a behind the rear end pan-hard bar of some sort to combat this, pivot point raising up while the rear end is wrapping up.

[CCHIEF]

Also note how much the pinion mount of the j-bar moves up. I think this if often overlooked or simply not even considered. And now you have plenty to consider with the liftbar you have!

[CCHIEF]

Spambotspew everywhere!

[TALON75]

I see alot of Mod guys out west are now running a behind the rear end pan-hard bar of some sort to combat this, pivot point raising up while the rear end is wrapping up.

Are those sport mods? I believe they have to run the panhard to the rear as per rules.

[dkibel]

Yes, those would be sportmods if they are running IMCA which is most tracks "out west". All of the Modifieds are using J-bars with pullbars. You will be hard pressed to find one that's not. Didn't modifieds in the 90's and early 2000's use a similar lift arm setup as the nueline but instead of the rod with biscuits I thought they used a chain with a spring. I vaguely remember seeing one and hearing that they built a ton of forward bite but never drove one for myself.

[Lizardracing]

UMP, USMTS, USRA mostly around here and lifts arm aren't as popular however there are a number of them and many of those VERY successful. Like track champions and national champions levels of success.

[powerslide]

Yes, those would be sportmods if they are running IMCA which is most tracks "out west". All of the Modifieds are using J-bars with pullbars. You will be hard pressed to find one that's not. Didn't modifieds in the 90's and early 2000's use a similar lift arm setup as the nueline but instead of the rod with biscuits I thought they used a chain with a spring. I vaguely remember seeing one and hearing that they built a ton of forward bite but never drove one for myself.

They had liftarm for decel and pullbar for accel. Can't have both now by rule