Rayburn CJ1

[stevensracing_6]

Anybody had a chance to pick one of these up yet? I'm curious to see what they will do on the track it's been a long time since I've heard of Rayburn being a relevant chassis

[LeafMaster41]

Haven't heard of "CJ1", other than his car. I do know about his latest suspension updates, "RayburnX". He makes a great car, just needs some racers willing to learn and work with something that isn't, politically or socially popular and/or acceptable with the shinnston clique(rocket fans or 4 link devotees). If pope richards doesn't bless it(swing arm), its hard to convince the lemmings(those who blindly follow) that swing arm a is viable suspension these days.

"Wait right here, they'll all be back." - CJ Rayburn

This has been true many times through out the years.

[00Hdmn]

Haven't heard of "CJ1", other than his car. I do know about his latest suspension updates, "RayburnX". He makes a great car, just needs some racers willing to learn and work with something that isn't, politically or socially popular with the shinnston clique. If pope richards doesn't bless it, its hard to convince the lemmings its viable these days.

"Wait right here, they'll all be back." - CJ Rayburn

This has been true many times through out the years.


This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while on here. I'm not a Mark Richards fan at all but how in world can you say that he controls what people buy just by endorsing it? Racers buy products that win and that's plain and simple, there are a ton of Longhorns and Club 29's and Richards I'm sure didn't endorse those. I don't believe you will ever see Lanigan being socialable like you said with Richards. The reason why Rayburn feel off the map is because the cars were awful and they feel behind the game.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Haven't heard of "CJ1", other than his car. I do know about his latest suspension updates, "RayburnX". He makes a great car, just needs some racers willing to learn and work with something that isn't, politically or socially popular with the shinnston clique. If pope richards doesn't bless it, its hard to convince the lemmings its viable these days.

"Wait right here, they'll all be back." - CJ Rayburn

This has been true many times through out the years.Right, because Longhorns aren't popular. Or, look at Kryptonite. Freddie, Tyler, and Chis are making strides. And JD back in a Barry Wright.

Rayburn's problem is Rayburn. You can whine about Rocket all you want. Results sells race cars, and CJ didn't change soon enough. He may come back, but either way it's his fault whether he makes it back or don't.

Shame, because at one time he was the man.

[a25rjr]

this is the dumbest thing i have heard in a while on here. I'm not a mark richards fan at all but how in world can you say that he controls what people buy just by endorsing it? Racers buy products that win and that's plain and simple, there are a ton of longhorns and club 29's and richards i'm sure didn't endorse those. I don't believe you will ever see lanigan being socialable like you said with richards. The reason why rayburn feel off the map is because the cars were awful and they feel behind the game.

x 2! ^^^^^^^

[Bubstr]

This is the dumbest thing I have heard in a while on here. I'm not a Mark Richards fan at all but how in world can you say that he controls what people buy just by endorsing it? Racers buy products that win and that's plain and simple, there are a ton of Longhorns and Club 29's and Richards I'm sure didn't endorse those. I don't believe you will ever see Lanigan being socialable like you said with Richards. The reason why Rayburn feel off the map is because the cars were awful and they feel behind the game.

That sounds pretty critical. Would you care to expound on exactly where CJ is off to the extent of awful? Front end Geometry? Rear suspension? Balance? Roll centers? Polar moments? The track doesn't know what chassis is on the other side of that tire track, it just knows weight and traction.

There are so many different chassis wining today, I see no reason that one more couldn't join that club. I'm all for CJ trying and even wish them luck.

[00Hdmn]

That sounds pretty critical. Would you care to expound on exactly where CJ is off to the extent of awful? Front end Geometry? Rear suspension? Balance? Roll centers? Polar moments? The track doesn't know what chassis is on the other side of that tire track, it just knows weight and traction.

There are so many different chassis wining today, I see no reason that one more couldn't join that club. I'm all for CJ trying and even wish them luck.

I have no clue where the New Rayburn cars have been off, from what I know of years of watching the sport, he feel behind when cars went from swing arm to 4 bar. When the swingarm cars were at the top CJ was the man, I didn't say I wish the man bad either, personally I would love to see him succeed. Chuck Harper was won of my favorites when I was a kid and he won a TON of races with a Rayburn. Back to where you were affended somehow, you must be a fool if you think that CJ had a quality product people wouldn't be in them, because they would be, they just have sucked for about the last 10-12 years.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

That sounds pretty critical. Would you care to expound on exactly where CJ is off to the extent of awful? Front end Geometry? Rear suspension? Balance? Roll centers? Polar moments? The track doesn't know what chassis is on the other side of that tire track, it just knows weight and traction.

There are so many different chassis wining today, I see no reason that one more couldn't join that club. I'm all for CJ trying and even wish them luck.It is critical, because the person he responded to acted like it was Marks' fault CJ fell behind. CJ fell behind because CJ didn't change with the times, pretty simple. Now it's a matter of having quality cars that win races consistently. Now the issue is no one wants to take the chance with CJ and I don't blame them.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

That sounds pretty critical. Would you care to expound on exactly where CJ is off to the extent of awful? Front end Geometry? Rear suspension? Balance? Roll centers? Polar moments? The track doesn't know what chassis is on the other side of that tire track, it just knows weight and traction.

There are so many different chassis wining today, I see no reason that one more couldn't join that club. I'm all for CJ trying and even wish them luck.

Not sure if he has fixed it yet, but the last one I played with (2012 model) still had a low cross member. Once we modified that, it worked pretty well.

[Bubstr]

It is critical, because the person he responded to acted like it was Marks' fault CJ fell behind. CJ fell behind because CJ didn't change with the times, pretty simple. Now it's a matter of having quality cars that win races consistently. Now the issue is no one wants to take the chance with CJ and I don't blame them.

So, you and the person I responded to, really don't know if CJ's chassis is good, bad or indifferent, but still feel comfortable, labeling them a bad chassis. That may be, but If I was going to talk a persons product down, I'd have a good reason before I did. And then, I'd have to think hard about it, as it's his livelihood. That's all I'm saying.

[a25rjr]

So, you and the person I responded to, really don't know if CJ's chassis is good, bad or indifferent, but still feel comfortable, labeling them a bad chassis. That may be, but If I was going to talk a persons product down, I'd have a good reason before I did. And then, I'd have to think hard about it, as it's his livelihood. That's all I'm saying.

I think Dennis Erb could answer that. Although he won a feature at Eastbay, it was downhill from there and he switched chassis shortly thereafter. I believe Dennis has enough skill and know-how to make a racecar competitive.

Lets hope CJ has made some changes and can keep a quality driver in one of his cars to make it competitive again.

[Bloomerdirtking]

The last Rayburn hotrod i remember was Schlieper's around 2002. Won the World and the N/S 100 around that time. Maybe there was some more but that sticks out in my head.

[Doc88D]

Schlenk won the National UMP title in 2010 in a Rayburn. I believe that was CJ's last title other than maybe a local track title now and then...

[Josh Bayko]

Dave Hess Jr ran a Rayburn in 2016 and was pretty competitive regionally.

[Josh Bayko]

So, you and the person I responded to, really don't know if CJ's chassis is good, bad or indifferent, but still feel comfortable, labeling them a bad chassis. That may be, but If I was going to talk a persons product down, I'd have a good reason before I did. And then, I'd have to think hard about it, as it's his livelihood. That's all I'm saying.

That high horse you're on is tired.

[CHIP DAWH]

Rusty Schlenk is in the Rayburn House car this year.

[NormP]

So, you and the person I responded to, really don't know if CJ's chassis is good, bad or indifferent, but still feel comfortable, labeling them a bad chassis. That may be, but If I was going to talk a persons product down, I'd have a good reason before I did. And then, I'd have to think hard about it, as it's his livelihood. That's all I'm saying.

I think everyone has had enough of your holier-than-thou attitude. You aren't impressing or fooling anyone. You intentionally misconstrued what the other guy said.

He said the rayburns fell behind because they were awful and got outdated. He didn't say anything about how the new one will perform.

[Bubstr]

That high horse you're on is tired.

Having respect for others, since when is described as riding a high horse? It's doing the right thing, if people know who you are and Scruples if they don't.

Here is a Hall of Fame guy, that hasn't had a winner in a while. He is trying to make a come back and gets all this looser talk, that doesn't speak well of his abilities. That is not respect. There is a lot this old guy could teach some of the chassis jumpers and people that criticize something they know nothing about.

[Josh Bayko]

Having respect for others, since when is described as riding a high horse? It's doing the right thing, if people know who you are and Scruples if they don't.

Here is a Hall of Fame guy, that hasn't had a winner in a while. He is trying to make a come back and gets all this looser talk, that doesn't speak well of his abilities. That is not respect. There is a lot this old guy could teach some of the chassis jumpers and people that criticize something they know nothing about.

Where was all this virtue signaling when everybody was sh*tting on Mark Richards two years ago? Why weren't you whining about respect in the threads sh*tting on Joe Garrison a couple weeks back?

[chupp n bloomer fan]

So, you and the person I responded to, really don't know if CJ's chassis is good, bad or indifferent, but still feel comfortable, labeling them a bad chassis. That may be, but If I was going to talk a persons product down, I'd have a good reason before I did. And then, I'd have to think hard about it, as it's his livelihood. That's all I'm saying.Then you go find someone who has ran well in one consistently in the last ten years. I'm sorry, I base my opinions on facts. I don't care what you did 15 years ago. This is a what can you do for me now World, and if you cannot provide me with a quality consistent car with good feedback, I'm going elsewhere. Longhorns were sh!t till they went to Kevin Rumley, CJ is there now, like it or not.

If I was making a product that used to be great, and now was nowhere near what it was, it is what it is. I'm not going to be butthurt about it, I'm going to fix it and make it what it once was. And prove the naysayers wrong.

Would you buy one? I would not. I'd buy a Rocket or Longhorn if it was me.

[Josh Bayko]

Then you go find someone who has ran well in one consistently in the last ten years. I'm sorry, I base my opinions on facts. I don't care what you did 15 years ago. This is a what can you do for me now World, and if you cannot provide me with a quality consistent car with good feedback, I'm going elsewhere. Longhorns were sh!t till they went to Kevin Rumley, CJ is there now, like it or not.

If I was making a product that used to be great, and now was nowhere near what it was, it is what it is. I'm not going to be butthurt about it, I'm going to fix it and make it what it once was. And prove the naysayers wrong.

Would you buy one? I would not. I'd buy a Rocket or Longhorn if it was me.

Mark Richards is the best in the business at adapting and improving. CJ Rayburn is the worst.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I think everyone has had enough of your holier-than-thou attitude. You aren't impressing or fooling anyone. You intentionally misconstrued what the other guy said.

He said the rayburns fell behind because they were awful and got outdated. He didn't say anything about how the new one will perform.Precisely, talking about respect and all that, only when convenient to him.

And has no issue getting personal with people, while at the same time talking about respect.

Couldn't agree with ya more Norm.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Mark Richards is the best in the business at adapting and improving. CJ Rayburn is the worst.You're dam right he is, whether he's an a$$hole or not is irrelevant.

[Josh Bayko]

You're dam right he is, whether he's an a$$hole or not is irrelevant.

He's not an a$$hole, he just doesn't have time for bull$hit. Bull$hit doesn't make money.

[LeafMaster41]

The last Rayburn hotrod i remember was Schlieper's around 2002. Won the World and the N/S 100 around that time. Maybe there was some more but that sticks out in my head.

Your close, it was 03' for Schlieper on those particular wins with Rayburn, although he had some more wins with "Wild Race Cars" swing arm at Eastbay after that. Moyer won his last WoO title with a Rayburn in 05' before later switching to VC, but he kept his Rayburns too. Rayburn cars were still in the hunt even as late as 09' at the world 100 too. I don't think NOT switching to 4 link was the problem, I think NOT focusing more on the Swing Arm 100% and pushing it farther was the issue. He tried to bridge the gap and appease some of the public perceptions by offering both type cars, but no one can serve two masters. As to Erb and his Eastbay win, he had more wins than that during that season, but those don't get mentioned much or the fact that he kept switching cars after that too until Black Diamond. I'm okay with racers who are fond of 4 link, but I do get tired of the incessant insults people like to hurl your way if you're not a shinnston moonie.

[ptown]

Babb also won a lot of races in a Rayburn.

[Bubstr]

Where was all this virtue signaling when everybody was sh*tting on Mark Richards two years ago? Why weren't you whining about respect in the threads sh*tting on Joe Garrison a couple weeks back?

Josh, you must be referring to the Richards post that got deleted and some posters got some time outs. It seem the forum owners felt like there was a lack of respect also. Of course the disrespectful in here said it was ok to disrespect, just not Richards. Sooner or later, you would think people would learn how to behave in public. I know nothing about Joe Garrison thread. I must have ignored the poster or been away from the computer that week.

[Summit 1]

What are cj's new cars now swingarm or 4 link?

[Josh Bayko]

Josh, you must be referring to the Richards post that got deleted and some posters got some time outs. It seem the forum owners felt like there was a lack of respect also. Of course the disrespectful in here said it was ok to disrespect, just not Richards. Sooner or later, you would think people would learn how to behave in public. I know nothing about Joe Garrison thread. I must have ignored the poster or been away from the computer that week.

That high horse is about to die.

[Barbecueboy]

He's not an a$$hole, he just doesn't have time for bull$hit. Bull$hit doesn't make money.

Nope, he's an a$$hole........with a good business sense.

[Barbecueboy]

IMO of course....

[Bubstr]

That high horse is about to die.

It would not bother me too much, if I didn't feel like Some in here needed to be reminded how to act in public. But My horse said he didn't like death threats.

Respect is something everyone in here wants and deserves. Why are some so offended by a respectful reminder?

[Josh Bayko]

It would not bother me too much, if I didn't feel like Some in here needed to be reminded how to act in public. But My horse said he didn't like death threats.

Respect is something everyone in here wants and deserves. Why are some so offended by a respectful reminder?

I don't know how you haven't passed out from choking on your own smug.

[Josh Bayko]

Nope, he's an a$$hole........with a good business sense.

Baker is a heck of a nice guy though, so it works.

[Barbecueboy]

Baker is a heck of a nice guy though, so it works.

Yup..............

[Barbecueboy]

I don't know how you haven't passed out from choking on your own smug.

It's chill pills.........passed out from choking on his own chill pills.

It's his signature in another forum he is on , except he cares not for respect , how to behave in public or any of the other things he regularly scolds everybody else on.

[Barbecueboy]

It would not bother me too much, if I didn't feel like Some in here needed to be reminded how to act in public. But My horse said he didn't like death threats.

Respect is something everyone in here wants and deserves. Why are some so offended by a respectful reminder?

Being reminded isn't so bad.......being reminded by a total hypocrite is where your suggestions have zero merit.

[Josh Bayko]

Is there any track or condition where the old swing arm car could compete with the chassis today?

I'm sure it could happen, but it would depend largely upon the driver.

[hrmotorsports33]

With a real driver behind the wheel a swing arm will win anywhere! For years Erb, O'Neal, moyer, Babb, Weaver and basically anyone who is anyone won a ton in them! I guess I am still one of the true believers in these cars! I can't wait to read all this garbage on here when schlenk starts handing out a#* whoopins on the weekly!

[pink floyd]

IMO of course....

and you are correct

[pink floyd]

Is there any track or condition where the old swing arm car could compete with the chassis today?

heavy heavy track, or a 5/8 mile.

[a25rjr]

With a real driver behind the wheel a swing arm will win anywhere! For years Erb, O'Neal, moyer, Babb, Weaver and basically anyone who is anyone won a ton in them! I guess I am still one of the true believers in these cars! I can't wait to read all this garbage on here when schlenk starts handing out a#* whoopins on the weekly!

We all will be waiting from the state of Missouri......the "show me" state!

[President Clinton]

% wise Bloomer should be the chassis king???? Number of his chassis versus number of wins would TRUMP any chassis????

[powerslide]

Is there any track or condition where the old swing arm car could compete with the chassis today?

If i was going to the dome next year i would have a setup with a swinger in the book

[stevensracing_6]

Well that turned into a d!ck measuring contest pretty fast

[Cast-Iron-Junkie]

With a real driver behind the wheel a swing arm will win anywhere! For years Erb, O'Neal, moyer, Babb, Weaver and basically anyone who is anyone won a ton in them! I guess I am still one of the true believers in these cars! I can't wait to read all this garbage on here when schlenk starts handing out a#* whoopins on the weekly!

First, if those cars could win against the current cars, every driver you mentioned would still be in them.

Second, the new cars are 4 bar cars.

[Cast-Iron-Junkie]

heavy heavy track, or a 5/8 mile.

Pink, you are only half right. The size of the track has absolutely nothing to do with a swing arm car's ability to win. Heavy and rough together is about the only place a swing arm car may still have a chance to be competitive.

[pink floyd]

Pink, you are only half right. The size of the track has absolutely nothing to do with a swing arm car's ability to win. Heavy and rough together is about the only place a swing arm car may still have a chance to be competitive.

what I should have said is a big sweeping cornered 5/8 mile track.

[00Hdmn]

Your close, it was 03' for Schlieper on those particular wins with Rayburn, although he had some more wins with "Wild Race Cars" swing arm at Eastbay after that. Moyer won his last WoO title with a Rayburn in 05' before later switching to VC, but he kept his Rayburns too. Rayburn cars were still in the hunt even as late as 09' at the world 100 too. I don't think NOT switching to 4 link was the problem, I think NOT focusing more on the Swing Arm 100% and pushing it farther was the issue. He tried to bridge the gap and appease some of the public perceptions by offering both type cars, but no one can serve two masters. As to Erb and his Eastbay win, he had more wins than that during that season, but those don't get mentioned much or the fact that he kept switching cars after that too until Black Diamond. I'm okay with racers who are fond of 4 link, but I do get tired of the incessant insults people like to hurl your way if you're not a shinnston moonie. Look at this whole thread, insult after insult,


Opening line is an insult, says a lot about his character.
Doesn't even race, but he knows from watching.

Now this guy admits he doesn't race, but somehow he's sure about the quality of cars being built by CJ.

This is a perfect example of what is wrong with 4m. Unless you've used the product yourself you have no qualifications to say whether its good or not. Is there room for improvement? Yes.
Do I think its ok to bash on a man's work that you don't even know or have experience with? NO.
I myself have had dealings with both, on a business level and I prefer to keep doing business with the man in Whiteland, IN.

Buddy, I have turned wrenches on cars, I have drove a car a time or two. I never bashed CJ saying he was never good or he didn't have a chance, I just stated the obvious that he has fallen way way behind the game has been struggling to catch up, if you thing otherwise your as dumb as these other idiots on here that are oblivious to reality. If you truly think that CJ has been relevant in the last 10 years on a national or even a regional level please fill me in because I haven't seen it, or heard about it or read about it.

[Car Biz]

Just to clarify 4 bar cars were around BEFORE swing arm cars.

[cutman]

Buddy, I have turned wrenches on cars, I have drove a car a time or two. I never bashed CJ saying he was never good or he didn't have a chance, I just stated the obvious that he has fallen way way behind the game has been struggling to catch up, if you thing otherwise your as dumb as these other idiots on here that are oblivious to reality. If you truly think that CJ has been relevant in the last 10 years on a national or even a regional level please fill me in because I haven't seen it, or heard about it or read about it.

I agree with what you say and I've always been a big fan of CJ.

[Bubstr]

CJ is and has been relevant in this sport as long as everyone else still use his front end geometry and weight placement. CJ is probably the best shade tree engineer, this sport has ever seen. If he says he has a new car, it's worth looking at, especially if you don't know what is in it.

As far as 4 link or swing arm or for that matter leaf springs, they all do the same thing. Some are better at laterally locating the rear end, like leaf springs. Some are much more adjustable for instant centers, like the 4 link. This isn't hocus pocus, it's physical law. It's purely connecting point location and force vectors. You can get LR hike on a leaf spring. Anyone watching these chassis wars, knows, it's more important that who is setting them up and driving than what kind they are. Most are borrowed ideas. Borrowed from CJ and Howe and a few others.

[Barbecueboy]

Yawn..........not cj, the source.

[LeafMaster41]

What are cj's new cars now swingarm or 4 link?

He offers both but, strongly recommends the swing arm cars. He offers the 4 link cars, in part to appease those people that believe they can't be fast without 4 link.

[00Hdmn]

Again with the insults, thanks for proving my point on your crowd. Hey, I get it once you become a Lemming its darn hard to think for yourself after that, just keep towing the company line. So happy you drove a car a time or 2, if it wasn't a swing arm car, its NOT valid to the topic. All you know is 10 years ago Rayburn cars were more visible, but now everyone you SEE has something else. Therefore in your mind that means Rayburn cars are no longer of any value and just plain SUCK. You should have never posted to this thread or started handing out insults because you have ZERO frame of reference to even voice an accurate opinion on whether CJ builds good cars or not because you don't see them in action. Its time to move on and admit your NOT qualified to speak to this topic, much less be insulting people on a subject you admit you have no knowledge of.

Anybody that has any knowledge of this sport can speak on weather or not Rayburn's cars have been good or not the past 10 years, how about 2-3 years ago CJ made a new car and took it to speed weeks and that's where that deal ended because it was unsuccessful, like I said many of times I hope it works out for him because he is true pioneer for the sport but I am not telling any lies only true facts. You my friend are naïve.

[00Hdmn]

I agree with what you say and I've always been a big fan of CJ.

Its just true... I have always like him also. Like I said in an earlier post my favorite driver as a kid was Chuck Harper and he won all his races in a Rayburn when those cars were good and tracks were way different than they are now. You don't drive cars sideways anymore at very many places.

[00Hdmn]

I just looked back to the last time they tried a new deal like this and it was Dan Schlieper who drove the house car in FL and if my memory serves me correct I don't think they made it through speed weeks and the year was 2015 I believe.

[a25rjr]

I just looked back to the last time they tried a new deal like this and it was Dan Schlieper who drove the house car in FL and if my memory serves me correct I don't think they made it through speed weeks and the year was 2015 I believe.

Dennis Erb won a race at Eastbay in 2014 with a supposedly new and improved Rayburn! He didn't last long in one and switched to Black Diamond!

Even Ray Charles can see that Cj's cars needs a lot of work to be competitive!

[cutman]

Scott James took the house car to the World 100 a couple years ago and couldn't return it to Whiteland fast enough

[RCJ]

The Koni shock Rayburn used was probably are lot better than anybody realizes.I don't know what rayburn does for shocks now, but shock technology has changed as much or more than chassis in the last 10 years.

[Links]

The new CJ1

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Scott James took the house car to the World 100 a couple years ago and couldn't return it to Whiteland fast enough

I think it had a pickup truck engine in it.

[speaker56]

Who is CJ Rayburn?

[fastford]

As beautiful as the Rayburn house ride may be I'd bet it wouldn't fall out of a tree

who were you reincarnated from?

[cutman]

I think it had a pickup truck engine in it.

And not a very strong one

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

There is nothing wrong with a CJ car that welder and sawzall couldn't fix in a few hours. I know, because I been there. This stuff isn't rocket science. Rusty will win some races.

[zyoung25]

Dennis Erb won a race at Eastbay in 2014 with a supposedly new and improved Rayburn! He didn't last long in one and switched to Black Diamond!

Even Ray Charles can see that Cj's cars needs a lot of work to be competitive!

Didn't erb have a stint in bwrc and bloomer cars before switching to black diamond?

[pink floyd]

Didn't erb have a stint in bwrc and bloomer cars before switching to black diamond?

erb has been in everything, haha.

[stevensracing_6]

Well schlenk picked up a $5000 to win at Mansfield on Saturday maybe a sign of things to come??

[chupp n bloomer fan]

If you're talking about me, you need to take a course in reading comprehension. My comments were that what richards does and says, influences a lot of people's perceptions. This is why so many came running to this post to blast people when he was mentioned. It's impossible to have a conversation on 4m or social media without the shinnston fan club hurling disrespectful insults towards anyone mentioning Rayburn or swing arm. If you do mention either of those terms you are branded an idiot by that brood and drummed out of town.
Does the shinnston group build a lot of cars? Yes.
Do they build more than most everybody else? Yes.
Do they win a lot of races/championships? Yes, they should since 80% of the field is one of their cars a lot of the time.Really? You can't see where I quoted the person who wrote what I responded too. Speaking of reading comprehension.....

[LeafMaster41]

First, if those cars could win against the current cars, every driver you mentioned would still be in them.

Second, the new cars are 4 bar cars.

Third, NO they ain't. Rayburn makes both 4 bar and swingarm, but all his development has been going into swing arm with the, "Rayburn X" design.

http://cjrayburn.com/

[95rayburn]

Whats special about the new x design?