Eldora Intrusion Plate

[davis2902]

Was there a specific incident that brought about this rule?

[hucktyson]

Does someone have to get impaled and bleed to death first ?

[Tireguy17]

Should be standard on all race cars. An easy safety measure to protect the driver.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Does someone have to get impaled and bleed to death first ?

This sport is reactionary. Were it not, the rule would have been known in December and it would have been implemented correctly. The question above is quite valid. I mean there is a 0.05% chance of an injury without it.

[ThebigE]

First they make all the Eldora regulars weld them on to their $20-$30k chassis. But then when the big boys come to town it's not mandated to be welded anymore. Bolt on or clamped is now sufficient enough. Slack is an ass and I wish he'd find a new home.

[golddirt]

For making a car safer?! Really

[manwplan]

Just like the unified council they did not do their due diligence in investigating. There are some cars out there I've seen with a 1/8" Alum. plate bolted with 4 bolts which is sufficient but because the powers that be are smarter than everyone else that's not legal.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Just like the unified council they did not do their due diligence in investigating. There are some cars out there I've seen with a 1/8" Alum. plate bolted with 4 bolts which is sufficient but because the powers that be are smarter than everyone else that's not legal.

The only people with voices in these decisions are those who have stuff to sell and the most well funded teams.

[zach51]

First they make all the Eldora regulars weld them on to their $20-$30k chassis. But then when the big boys come to town it's not mandated to be welded anymore. Bolt on or clamped is now sufficient enough. Slack is an ass and I wish he'd find a new home.

How do you think a chassis is built? With welds....so what difference does it make? I don't disagree with you about making the rule then changing it, but I don't see the big deal about welding the plates on the car. If they want a show car go buy a corvette. This is dirt track racing.

[zyoung25]

How do you think a chassis is built? With welds....so what difference does it make? I don't disagree with you about making the rule then changing it, but I don't see the big deal about welding the plates on the car. If they want a show car go buy a corvette. This is dirt track racing.

No one would've had a problem bolting plates to car, if that was the rule from the get go. It's not about guys not wanting to be safe, which is what everyone seems to think that's what it is. If you was, let's say Chris Madden and you just run the world and dream and you have to fully weld plates to your brand new longhorn, just for those races, would you want to do that? I know I wouldn't.

It could change the way the car handles too.

[davis2902]

Does someone have to get impaled and bleed to death first ?

It was a freaking question. I'm sure you have the plate, proper fuel cell, containment seat and fire system in your car. Do you wear safety glasses and hearing protection when building decks?

Jim Dunn was burned how many years ago and just this last year a rule change was made for fire but they weren't immediately mandatory. This was the first I had heard of the intrusion plate and I just was wondering what the reasoning was behind the rule. Seems flawed as the right side f the driver is unprotected. I know the use of carbon fiber drive shafts has risen but many still run the aluminum or steel shafts.

[ptown]

Anyone have a picture of these, before install and what it looks like on the car?

[zyoung25]

Anyone have a picture of these, before install and what it looks like on the car?

It's on eldoras site under the rules. There are a few pics on there that explain what's good and what isn't .

[zach51]

http://www.eldoraspeedway.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/E17-Minimum-Safety-Standards-Update-Final-Ver.-5.23.17.pdf

At the bottom. Again, I don't understand why this is such a fuss. Why would somebody not want to weld in the plates? Those plates welded on the Tony Stewart car example is not going to effect handling "THAT" much, there is not a ton of weight added there. Suck it up, weld it in there, and move on with your life.

[MI Dirt Fan]

How could it change the way a car handles?🤔

I guess I just assumed they all had them on when they were built.

[zach51]

How could it change the way a car handles?樂

I guess I just assumed they all had them on when they were built.

Any time you add sprung weight to one particular area (even though it isn't much) it change things, but nothing that couldn't be made up for by another adjustment elsewhere on the car. Those weld in plates are adding probably half (or less) than the weight of that big bolt on piece. With the bolt on piece, you still have to weld the tabs on there to bolt the piece onto, so kind of defeats the purpose of whining.

I suppose you could always mess with the bolt on clamps but that looks like a pain in the sack.

[Illtsate32]

The only people with voices in these decisions are those who have stuff to sell and the most well funded teams.Pretty soon they will make a rule..No fabricating allowed all parts must be bought lol

[JCSullivan00]

It's not about the weight that guy are worried about.

It's the welding. The one guy commented that all the cars were welded when they were built. Yes, of course they were, but they were welded in a jig. Welding on your car without it being on a jig CAN definitely change the car.

The big deal is that they forced their regular guys to weld on their cars, but succumbed to the big guys when they refused.

Before I get lambasted, the only car that I am associated with had plates welded on while it was in the jig being built.

[zach51]

Welding 4 plates onto the door bars is not going to tweak the chassis.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Welding 4 plates onto the door bars is not going to tweak the chassis.

That's what I thought. Definitely not buying what he's saying

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Welding 4 plates onto the door bars is not going to tweak the chassis.It absolutely can. Anytime you heat and weld on something you will change it. Just does.

My only issue is you made your regulars weld em, and now the big boys can just bolt them on. Because they absolutely didn't wanna be welding on their chassis after it was done and off the jig.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Welding 4 plates onto the door bars is not going to tweak the chassis.

It will add residual stress into that area. Will that have any impact on the load path between the front and rear wheels? Depends on car, but probably not. However, no one wants to weld 20# of steel to their car when it is not needed at any other facility.

[JustAddDirt]

I would not want to weld that straight to my chrome-moly chassis, especially without the proper weld wire.
( I assume Rockets still are, and others too)
I would much rather weld a tab, and bolt it on, or bolt in on with weight clamps.
much less risk of making it brittle, and a molecular metal change.

My mods have always been built with them welded onto chassis on the jig. (not 1/8 thick though) that's way overkill

[tb1545]

Most other sanctioning bodies for other classes require plates on the drivers door so its pretty much about time they required them in late models. 16"x26"x.125" translates to 14.75lbs of weight. So tell the driver to eat a few less cheeseburgers and maybe a 1/4 turn on a couple coilovers and youre back to where you were.
You can freak out when they make the rules on fuel cells that costs hundreds of dollars, but a steel plate that might cost $25 maximum to do it yourself if you dont have piles of scrap laying around isnt excessive. the only ones that complain are the lazy ones. Youd be surprised how many guys cut up their cars changing suspension mounts so the ruining the paintjob is kind of mute.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Most other sanctioning bodies for other classes require plates on the drivers door so its pretty much about time they required them in late models. 16"x26"x.125" translates to 14.75lbs of weight. So tell the driver to eat a few less cheeseburgers and maybe a 1/4 turn on a couple coilovers and youre back to where you were.
You can freak out when they make the rules on fuel cells that costs hundreds of dollars, but a steel plate that might cost $25 maximum to do it yourself if you dont have piles of scrap laying around isnt excessive. the only ones that complain are the lazy ones. Youd be surprised how many guys cut up their cars changing suspension mounts so the ruining the paintjob is kind of mute.

Been waiting for this comment. Thank you

[zach51]

It absolutely can. Anytime you heat and weld on something you will change it. Just does.

My only issue is you made your regulars weld em, and now the big boys can just bolt them on. Because they absolutely didn't wanna be welding on their chassis after it was done and off the jig.

Not near as much as everytime they smack the friggin wall.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Not near as much as everytime they smack the friggin wall.

That only involves contact with flimsy bolt on pieces unless you really screw up.

[george w]

You think the chassis which also is considered the biggest spring on/in your car will flex the same afterwords right? I guess testing is cheap to do though right? I'm all for driver safety but saying it wont affect anything is silly......

[zyoung25]

You think the chassis which also is considered the biggest spring on/in your car will flex the same afterwords right? I guess testing is cheap to do though right? I'm all for driver safety but saying it wont affect anything is silly......

Consider the sources.....

[Clayton_Wetter]

It would seem that welding this plate on would hamper the FLEX of the chassis. To what degree I have no idea.

[george w]

Consider the sources..... if u got some knowledge an a credible source enlighten us how much change is there i have no clue but it definitely add a variable

[Matt49]

A lot of non racers are turning this into a tech discussion.
There are about a dozen technical reasons that the touring guys don't want to weld heavy metal plates to their car at the most extreme far left point possible. It has nothing to do with being lazy.
I could also argue that they are making the car LESS safe by stiffening an area that already offers very little energy absorption in an impact such as driver side first into the wall.

[kiwi1955]

Interesting thread. Here in New Zealand we have had door and head plates on our saloons and super saloons since before I started on dirt and that was 1983. If you have ever been drilled in the door at speed you appreciate that plate. It obviously better if the plate was part of the initial chassis build. Have a look at www.hypermacracing.com and you can see how we have to do it here. Hypermacs are the dominant super saloon/late model chassis in NZ currently.

[93Nelson]

Most other sanctioning bodies for other classes require plates on the drivers door so its pretty much about time they required them in late models. 16"x26"x.125" translates to 14.75lbs of weight. So tell the driver to eat a few less cheeseburgers and maybe a 1/4 turn on a couple coilovers and youre back to where you were.
You can freak out when they make the rules on fuel cells that costs hundreds of dollars, but a steel plate that might cost $25 maximum to do it yourself if you dont have piles of scrap laying around isnt excessive. the only ones that complain are the lazy ones. Youd be surprised how many guys cut up their cars changing suspension mounts so the ruining the paintjob is kind of mute.

The plates are old news to a lot if us. I figured everything had them. Kinda if a no brainier to me.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Longhorn will have them available next week.

[Forward Bite]

As I mentioned in another thread, IMCA has required intrusion plates on driver side bars for over 10 years on the modifieds. All IMCA modified chassis builders weld the plates on the drivers door. Surprised to hear the Late Models raced without them.

[MaverickSprints]

The only people with voices in these decisions are those who have stuff to sell and the most well funded teams.

Hear! Hear!

They continue to run around fixing things that aren't broke and breaking things that were NOT an issue, all to appear to be doing things. What a bunch of know nothings. I use to dream of making a trip to Eldora, now I could care less if I ever race there or see it from the stands. Boo! Boo!

[zach51]

Hear! Hear!

They continue to run around fixing things that aren't broke and breaking things that were NOT an issue, all to appear to be doing things. What a bunch of know nothings. I use to dream of making a trip to Eldora, now I could care less if I ever race there or see it from the stands. Boo! Boo!

Maybe the guy earlier this week that said he'd never go to FALS will swap seats with ya lol

[Bubstr]

I think we are missing the bigger point of this. Last I checked, Eldora is a UMP track. UMP preaches they brought standardized rules to Dirt LM. It's one of the reasons, promoters should have a UMP track and why racers should race at a UMP track.

Eldora gets special treatment anyway, as they never lost their UMP sanction or race dates for allowing a Best car to run at their track. Now they get to make rules that do not conform to other UMP tracks. I think someone should wake up and take care of business in a fair and impartial manor. Seems like here lately, any group can make their own rule, with out consulting with the others. It used to be setteled at PRI show, long before the season starts.

[mcarter815]

You think the chassis which also is considered the biggest spring on/in your car will flex the same afterwords right? I guess testing is cheap to do though right? I'm all for driver safety but saying it wont affect anything is silly......Your chassis isn't supposed to flex. Your chassis acting as a giant spring does bad things to the handling.

[JCSullivan00]

Your chassis isn't supposed to flex. Your chassis acting as a giant spring does bad things to the handling.


Tell that to anyone that had a GRT computer car.

[davis2902]

Tell that to anyone that had a GRT computer car.

Ain't that the truth! I know where one is if anyone would like to prove the non-flex is better theory.

[mcarter815]

Ain't that the truth! I know where one is if anyone would like to prove the non-flex is better theory.Why would anyone want an undampened spring? A balanced setup will produce almost no chassis flex.Chassis flex just makes the car less sensitive to adjustments.

[MBR Performance]

Zach51 it is blatantly obvious you have absolutely zero knowledge of race cars. Stay in the bleachers.

[zach51]

Zach51 it is blatantly obvious you have absolutely zero knowledge of race cars. Stay in the bleachers.

So who are you again?

[Senroc-Systems]

I think we are missing the bigger point of this. Last I checked, Eldora is a UMP track. UMP preaches they brought standardized rules to Dirt LM. It's one of the reasons, promoters should have a UMP track and why racers should race at a UMP track.

Eldora gets special treatment anyway, as they never lost their UMP sanction or race dates for allowing a Best car to run at their track. Now they get to make rules that do not conform to other UMP tracks. I think someone should wake up and take care of business in a fair and impartial manor. Seems like here lately, any group can make their own rule, with out consulting with the others. It used to be setteled at PRI show, long before the season starts.

Bubstr, it's got nothing to do with Eldora getting special treatment. It's got nothing to do with making their own rules. It has everything to do with Eldora's new insurance policies. I'm not going to write a book here on the subject, but I'll start with just about every dirt track east of the Mississippi River, north to south is insured by K&K. Tony and Eldora are with a much bigger company, with much stricter guide lines. That's the reason for the addition of the door plate. There is some news about it on their website. Anyone who enters the pit area has this insurance available to them for a fee. Drivers, owners, crew and spectators. Same deal as NASCAR. The last sentence should be enough for everyone here to understand.

[Bubstr]

Bubstr, it's got nothing to do with Eldora getting special treatment. It's got nothing to do with making their own rules. It has everything to do with Eldora's new insurance policies. I'm not going to write a book here on the subject, but I'll start with just about every dirt track east of the Mississippi River, north to south is insured by K&K. Tony and Eldora are with a much bigger company, with much stricter guide lines. That's the reason for the addition of the door plate. There is some news about it on their website. Anyone who enters the pit area has this insurance available to them for a fee. Drivers, owners, crew and spectators. Same deal as NASCAR. The last sentence should be enough for everyone here to understand.

You can easily say, it has nothing to do with special treatment, but, everyone sees a special track that wants special insurance and wants it's racers to pay for it, with a special door plate. Standard rules keeps the remaining racers going. Up until recently, a racer could race anywhere with the same rules.

[zyoung25]

if u got some knowledge an a credible source enlighten us how much change is there i have no clue but it definitely add a variable

Clean out your inbox George.


I think we are missing the bigger point of this. Last I checked, Eldora is a UMP track. UMP preaches they brought standardized rules to Dirt LM. It's one of the reasons, promoters should have a UMP track and why racers should race at a UMP track.

Eldora gets special treatment anyway, as they never lost their UMP sanction or race dates for allowing a Best car to run at their track. Now they get to make rules that do not conform to other UMP tracks. I think someone should wake up and take care of business in a fair and impartial manor. Seems like here lately, any group can make their own rule, with out consulting with the others. It used to be setteled at PRI show, long before the season starts.

It was said the car could've been signed in under another name, unlike what happened at Lasalle and they just said best was a sponsor. I fully agree with what you're saying, but if they did indeed sign the car in under another name, there's nothing that can be done. That's something only eldora and the people involved with that car that weekend will know. I'll be curious to see if it's back for the Appleseed though.

Regardless, they're not going to take away the sanctioning away from there. $$$$$$

[george w]

Clean out your inbox George.



It was said the car could've been signed in under another name, unlike what happened at Lasalle and they just said best was a sponsor. I fully agree with what you're saying, but if they did indeed sign the car in under another name, there's nothing that can be done. That's something only eldora and the people involved with that car that weekend will know. I'll be curious to see if it's back for the Appleseed though.

Regardless, they're not going to take away the sanctioning away from there. $$$$$$ should be empty now

[Forward Bite]

Intrusion plates save lives. How can any driver racing at a high speed track like Eldora not understand that.

[Krooser]

Most tracks here in WI have had the plate rule for many, many years.

[MaverickSprints]

Tell that to anyone that had a GRT computer car.
Those were a case of mismatched chassis with aggressive suspension. The computer car probably would have made an outstanding "swing arm" chassis, but 4 link is far too aggressive for a platform that unforgiving.


Your chassis isn't supposed to flex. Your chassis acting as a giant spring does bad things to the handling.

Where have you been for the last 17 years, give or take? They gave up using suspension and springs in late 98' and it has only gotten worse. You have 2 solid rods holding up the LR, you have a solid bar you teeter from left to right on and the RF collapses onto a solid rubber bump stop and the chassis has been cut away to keep from dragging... If the chassis didn't flex they'd have nothing to absorb the sudden loads except the sidewall of the tires. What it amounts to is a series of crutches masquerading as high technology. They even had to switch from mild steel to Chromoly because it lasts longer with all the flexing, the next step(which is already underway) is Docul R8.


Ain't that the truth! I know where one is if anyone would like to prove the non-flex is better theory.
PM me the particulars, I'd like one.

[Josh Bayko]

How in the world would anybody think that adding weight, even though it is just a few pounds, wouldn't mess with a car's percentages?

[Krooser]

Wehr's makes good stuff but this?

http://www.wehrsmachine.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=14&products_id=993