NEW - Economy Late Model Series - Illinois

[HoosierDirtFan]

NEW
Economy Late Model Series - Working on a 16 race schedule in central Illinois
Facebook Page - www.facebook.com/Economy-Late-Model-Series-732073626990206

Rules - www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=737649339765968&id=732073626990206

[ptown]

Claim rules never work.

[golddirt]

So a fan can claim as I read it

[Clayton_Wetter]

Economy admission prices too!!!! NOT!!!!!

[Chris Thomason]

Apparently in the next couple of years every car at the track will be some type of Late model. Killing grass roots racing.

[george w]

Apparently in the next couple of years every car at the track will be some type of Late model. Killing grass roots racing. atleast your not in missouri, its already happened, except they all resemble modifieds ...... a mods b mods e mods an the good ol mod-lites

[kidrock]

Claim rules never work.

If they tech these cars every week they won't need to worry about the claiming rule. The key will be teching of the cars because, if they don't it will only get out of hand the crates classes are now.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I thought crates were suppose to be "economy"???

[Illtsate32]

Anybody can claim I like that rule lol...

[kidrock]

I thought crates were suppose to be "economy"???

They were and no teching of cars and now they are out of hand. this will be no different if they are not serious about teching. I hope they do then this could be a good thing.

[hoosier race fan]

I miss the days when nearly every track had a very simple ladder for drivers to advance through from beginner to advanced competitors. Most tracks had some type of entry level factory stock/bomber class. Then you moved up to street stock/hobby stock. After that it was usually late model. Today it could easily be 4 cyl./FWD, then factory stock/bomber/street stock. Those should be kept at $5K and under for a turn key car. Then it's up to Sportsman/Crate late model, keeping them under $10K turn key. Modified is next, shooting for the $10K-$15K range, and finally Super late model at $15K+.

For that to actually happen, it would take promoters agreeing to run the same rules, rules enforcement, and racers with enough brains to know that paying for a more expensive car isn't going to make them faster. It amazes me how much some of these morons are asking for the cars they are trying to sell. They screw up and over pay, then they want to sell it and make someone else do the same to bail them out of their own stupidity. Simple supply and demand. If nobody is willing to pay that much for cars and parts, suppliers will be forced to lower their price. Rules can take away that need to buy those parts, and smart buyers that refuse to pay the high prices could make a huge difference. That takes discipline, which many do not have.

[golddirt]

Please tell me Mike daughtery has nothing to do with this

[HoosierDirtFan]

Please tell me Mike daughtery has nothing to do with this

From what I've seen so far he has nothing to do with this series. If that was the case it would be dead before it started when word got out. That man is a JOKE. Supposedly he still trying to acquire land to build a new track near Lebanon, Indiana.

[427c.i.]

Skip White Chinese aluminum heads... not good. Been there, done that.
There’s a lot better budget aluminum heads out there.
If it works, it would create a better used parts market for LM guys to sell their stuff.

[Krooser]

Anybody know what happened to the track near Lebanon that the Kenyon Brothers built in the 80's?

[Doc88D]

Economy, and Late Model don't go together

[Forward Bite]

Sounds like a good plan for a fun to race late model class, but why engine CID limit when there is an engine claim . What is a white Chinese head ? What is the deal regarding Karls cam ?

[billetbirdcage]

Sounds like a good plan for a fun to race late model class, but why engine CID limit when there is an engine claim . What is a white Chinese head ? What is the deal regarding Karls cam ?

The problem with a claim is: Even when it's legitimately used because someone thinks the engine is high dollar, it then becomes a I'm gonna claim you back every week deals and just starts a bunch of animosity between teams. I see no reason not to limit the CID, just for simplicity.

The Skip White deal: It's imported parts with very low quality and notorious for failures. Not saying the company is shady or anything, but the products and brands they sell are know to fail and don't hold up long but are cheap. Google it or Procomp products and see for yourself.

No idea on the cam, but I would think it's a reboxed cam from one of the large cam manufacturer or possible being a grind of their own made by someone.

[Krooser]

The oil shocks are a good start...

[golddirt]

Leading to lower car counts yet again by watering down the class. You have pro,crate,now economy

[Highwayman]

Why can't we have just good ole honest tech? Here are the rules and we're gonna check to make sure you are right. All this claimer business and sealing bolts have proven defeat-able, but with specs you are either right or wrong and you can decide how much you want to spend on your engine. If you can afford to claim an engine you can afford to protest.

[Illtsate32]

Why can't we have just good ole honest tech? Here are the rules and we're gonna check to make sure you are right. All this claimer business and sealing bolts have proven defeat-able, but with specs you are either right or wrong and you can decide how much you want to spend on your engine. If you can afford to claim an engine you can afford to protest.I think a big problem with tech is where do you find a tech man with no vested interest in any team or influenced by any promoter or racer...I think thats hard to find... if I was a promoter I would find a tech guy from a different region of the country and would pay him a good salary...if you have honest tech man that does his job I think the cars would come in flocks to race there...On another point I seen bronson had an xr1 for sale 40,000 for I guess the chassis with the body on it..maybe shocks too...smh #costsoutofhand

[TheJet-09]

Does anyone know who's behind this series? Seems like it kinda came out of nowhere.

I sure wish them luck, but also don't foresee any driver being interested in this. At some point, it's no longer late model racing. Late models are not entry level cars, nor should they try to be made out to be. You can't run new tires??? Some of the rules just seem a little too controlling. Like telling me what valving I have to run on my cheapo shocks? Because they might make me remove them so they can be dyno'd? Come on...

[golddirt]

Isn't this street stock now?

[race14]

Stupid idea tech the crates and b-mods and be done with it.smdh

[ptown]

Does anyone know who's behind this series? Seems like it kinda came out of nowhere...

No names is an indication of this never happening.

[TheJet-09]

I saw on their Facebook post that someone mentioned Brian Crebo. I have no idea if he's running it, but I believe he has a used racecar parts business down in the Peoria area, so a possible connection would make sense.

[Krooser]

USRA has a decent limited late model deal that seems to be growing....spec Integra shocks is my biggest gripe but I'm not running it. But my iron headed SB
is legal...

[fastford]

our limited late model class at TST has held its car count better than all other classes , except the hot shots which are the front wheel drives , and the limited are policed pretty well.

[fryefan]

Limited and/or crate late models are the future of weekly late model racing.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Limited and/or crate late models are the future of weekly late model racing.

Not with correct tech procedures and written rules banning certain type of add ons. Heard that 10 years ago. There was a guy around here had a bunch of crate motors lined up he paid for and with sponsorship money and they didn't last long. Not sure what happened to all those motors. I don't even think the crate class lasted an entire season. You can take a open motor out of car and put a crate motor in and it's still a $30k-40k+ car with all the light weight bolt ons and shock packages

[TheJet-09]

And obviously an economy class could possibly survive at any given track, but to try and make a series out of it? If I were looking to develop something like this, I would have to see a distinct need for it. If you had full late model fields, and full crate fields at the local tracks, and those who were unable to consistently make those shows were looking for something to fit their needs, then a class as such would make sense. But how often is there a full field in either of those classes at any central Illinois track?

The sportsman class used to be that middle ground between something entry level like a street stock, and the high dollar machines like modifieds and late models. But only Fairbury runs those (sportsman) anymore. Who knows, at least someone is putting forth the effort to keep the sport alive and growing.

[Forward Bite]

If a claim rule creates some animosity between some racers, so what ? animosity = excitement

[billetbirdcage]

If a claim rule creates some animosity between some racers, so what ? animosity = excitement

I for one don't like that fact that my car or driver can end up being caught up in an altercation that happens on the racetrack cause 2 other competitors are feuding over a something that started as a claim issue and take it out on each other during a race and others get our cars torn up in the process. None of that helps people bring cars every week.

I've seen guys that had no issue with each other before a claim and then it turns into a never ending battle of claiming guys back and eventually turns into on track altercations or gets turned into that even from something small like light unintentional contract but is perceived as getting back for a claim and just escalates from there.

The other part is many won't claim to help keep costs in check as to not ruffle feathers, then the whole point of the claim is pointless and don't control anything.

Not saying it can't work, but usually causes problems to a point no one claims.

[Bubstr]

Can you imagine a fan from the stands, claiming a car a probably cheating the owner out o a lot o labor hours and coming to race the next week. What are the odds that he never completes a race and gets claimed that night? Are these racers going to build economy cars or every fan that wants to race? It's not going to work. For a lot o people 12k is pocket money.

Another class is not what racing needs. There are too many 10 car Mains now. Boring and no fans equals no racing. This is for tracks that pay the purse, with the back gate. They need better rules for about 3 classes and make at least two of them a similar chassis, so there is a resale spot to make it cheaper or the top classes.

I think the shock and bump stop rules are good or limited LM now. Anyone caught with more than 8 shocks in the pits is DQed. You have to know, most will be spending on blue printing those heads and making them look as cast. A sand blast and acid etch will do a lot for a machined port. Ask any karter. Angle milling the heads is not very detectable, till you need spacers on the intake ports. If you don't like the cam, change the rockers. Limited engines get expensive also. I had a stock 350 in 67, that pumped more than 185 lbs. It would be great if there was good rules to cut costs. There just isn't.

[rickybrown1952]

I saw on their Facebook post that someone mentioned Brian Crebo. I have no idea if he's running it, but I believe he has a used racecar parts business down in the Peoria area, so a possible connection would make sense.I asked what his name is he told me Brian Crebo

[golddirt]

That's the same info I got

[MI Dirt Fan]

I think a big problem with tech is where do you find a tech man with no vested interest in any team or influenced by any promoter or racer...I think thats hard to find... if I was a promoter I would find a tech guy from a different region of the country and would pay him a good salary...if you have honest tech man that does his job I think the cars would come in flocks to race there...On another point I seen bronson had an xr1 for sale 40,000 for I guess the chassis with the body on it..maybe shocks too...smh #costsoutofhand

Bronson has the car listed for $32,500 minus motor and seat only.

[golddirt]

Sounds like some racers just want to go out for a Sunday drive, don't scratch my car!!

[dirtkart30]

what to do ? getting back in it. rumor has it tracks here in the midwest are going imca rules for lms. with the crates and now the supposed imca rules wondering which way to go..

[golddirt]

I see Imca taking over

[dirtkart30]

ok i am thinking of buying imca late model with their spec.engine. i hope imca takes off here ?

[Bubstr]

The IMCA rules seem to work well in Ia, Ne and Mo. Deery bros. put on some great races and if the IMCA car wants to race open, you just change the engine. You can still make a engine as expensive as you can afford, but with the spec head, your not going to get your monies worth. The guys winning are doing it with talent and set ups. I know one that wins with a 5 6 year old engine. It sometimes feels like a shock rule would be good, but that makes it too hard to step up and do the open thing, when they are around. Lets face it. There will be no palatable limited rule package until the top series makes it. Until then, they will always be second class citizens.

[BadlandsBandit12]

sorry good luck getting drivers to race for 300 to win. Also if a said driver needs used tires and cannot find any, he cannot race right?

I think you can do better economy racing series!!!!!!

[mcarter815]

The IMCA rules seem to work well in Ia, Ne and Mo. Deery bros. put on some great races and if the IMCA car wants to race open, you just change the engine. You can still make a engine as expensive as you can afford, but with the spec head, your not going to get your monies worth. The guys winning are doing it with talent and set ups. I know one that wins with a 5 6 year old engine. It sometimes feels like a shock rule would be good, but that makes it too hard to step up and do the open thing, when they are around. Lets face it. There will be no palatable limited rule package until the top series makes it. Until then, they will always be second class citizens.IMCA late models are suffering here in Iowa and it’s more than just changing the motor to run open. There are probably 200 late model drivers in Iowa and they are all off running under different sanctions. There is very little mixing. That means most tracks in Eastern Iowa are lucky to get consistent double digit late model counts weekly.

[dirtkart30]

any news is this really going to happen ?

[Clayton_Wetter]

No names is an indication of this never happening.

Hopefully it doesn't happen. Economy is for Hornets.

[jesel45]

HELLO ALL, my name is Brian Crebo, I am the one currently trying to start up the new "ECONOMY LATE MODEL SERIES". Please direct all your questions towards me and i will do my best to answer them as directly and as honestly as i can!

I will let you all know first and foremost that i personally will be doing the Tech on the cars (post race and pre race) and i will not at all be allowing this to get outta hand, that is what is wrong with racing in the first place and why you see so many "10 car or less A'mains". I already have all of my tech procedures in place.

As far as the engines go i seen someone comment on the cylinder heads being "chinese junk". Yes we have picked out a cheap cylinder head as our spec head for this series as they are pretty easy to tech and very cost effective for your average person. The basic rules under this engine package allows someone to build an engine very cheap and still be competitive. We have put in place 185lbs compression rule, 93 octane pump gas rule, and a 6200 rpm chip rule in place on a cam with a .531 lobe lift to help these engines live for a very long time at a very affordable price

The chassis and brake components, i have raced crate cars for alot of years and have had all of the light weight components and know what a performance advantage they are which i why i have taken all of those pieces outta of the game and put every one on affordable components, please see the rules if you have any questions on suspension

Shocks, we all know that is the second biggest expense factor in racing today which is again why we limited them to "fixed bearing twin tube oil shocks only" there 79.99 a piece new. We are also designating what valving must be on each corner of the car (94lr,94rr, 75 lf and 72/6 or 73/5 RF) so guys dont have to have 20 shocks in there trailer you will need 3 spares max.

As far as the tire rule goes, there are so many UMP drivers out there begging for an outlet to get rid of there used tires, finding them will not be an issue. If the class gets large enough that there is not enough tires to go around then we will revisit this at a later date.

Pay 300 250 200 190 175 160 150 140 130 125 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100 100
Sure it doesnt pay alot to "win" but take a look at the pay through the field, there isnt a big drop off from the top to the bottom like most classes, i could very easily make it $500 to win and $75 to start, but there can only be one winner and they guys finishing towards the tail will appreciate the extra $25 to help them get back to the track next week.

I am not starting this class/series in hopes of making a bunch of money. My hopes is to help bring racing back to an affordable level and get guys that have cars just sitting in there garage because they cannot afford to compete with the Jones's to be able to race again or the hornet or bmod guy who dreams of driving a late model someday but know they currently cannot afford to compete on a super level. Something has to happen soon or all we are going to have is your traveling series and i'm just trying to do my part to help it turn around!

any more question please feel free to pm me on here or email me @ crebomotorsports@gmail.com

Brian Crebo

[fastford]

I like your idea and wish you luck, at least your willing to try something!!!! I this a chevy only class ?

[jesel45]

as of now yes, way to many variables by letting other engines in, be way to hard to police and tech properly

[Krooser]

I wish you luck... you have to start somewhere.

The oil shock rule is really good...

I would think an alternative to the 'spec' heads would allow you a better chance of getting more cars to the track... maybe a weight penalty or carb penalty for the first season. Not many guys are willing to invest any amount of $$$ in a head they may not have a use for if this series doesn't take off. Maybe allow GM factory heads with a weight penalty... or an IMCA stock car or sport mod motor to be legal just to get some car counts.

Your toughest job will be getting promoters behind this. Many guys are pretty hard headed and don't want to take on another class even if it's once or twice per season. I've been on both ends of that discussion. Maybe you can shop this series to a potential sponsor who could help with a few hundred bucks toward the purse each night... always a tough sell with a new deal but I've seen it done.

Good luck...

[fastford]

I like your idea and wish you luck, at least your willing to try something!!!! I this a chevy only class ?

i would think your compression rule might eliminate a lot of those variables , the same company that makes the chevy head , also makes a comparable ford head i think , might be wrong though, have to check , but a early 351 4brl windsor head should be fairly comparable.....sorry , ment to reply to your post and accidentally clicked on mine......

[Krooser]

You drinking some Mountain Dew tonite FF?

[427c.i.]

Buy the Skip White heads as bare castings and build them yourself. The castings themselves aren't bad but you will need to clean some slag out of them.
I bought a set assembled and when it was all said and done, had to have them taken apart and redone. Bad valve seats. These were a set supposedly assembled by SWP, not assembled in China.
FWIW, the Edelbrock heads aren't that much more, a much nicer piece and ready to run right out of the box. Made in America as well.