08 smackdown updating

[CDNRocket18R]

I have an 08 square tube smackdown, was thinking bout getting updates done on it, like a raised crossmember, maybe rear under slung. Is there anything else that should be done, or would it be better off to just upgrade to a newer chassis. Thanks

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I have an 08 square tube smackdown, was thinking bout getting updates done on it, like a raised crossmember, maybe rear under slung. Is there anything else that should be done, or would it be better off to just upgrade to a newer chassis. Thanks

Easiest thing would be to pick up a Gen x type car. They are cheap as hell.

[CDNRocket18R]

How are those cars in handling compared to a smack car? And I would assume I would need new front suspension as well

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

How are those cars in handling compared to a smack car? And I would assume I would need new front suspension as well

They steer way, way, better. You have better ground clearance. You would need spindles and maybe uppers? I would have to check my old setup sheets... The longer Smackdown rf lower is the same length as the Gen X, but the Gen X has two coilover mounts. To be safe, you would need the rf lower too.

I promise you will find it a worthwhile upgrade.

[TheJet-09]

I ran an '07 Smackdown from 2013-2016, then picked up a '14 Gen-X for this year. A night and day difference. The easiest way to describe the difference would be to say the Gen-X practically drives itself. It seems almost that effortless. Much better front end as MasterSbilt_Racer said, and the rearend width and 4-bar lengths are different as well.

[Krooser]

What's the difference in spindle heights bewteen the two.... and how about the S7 spindles?

[CDNRocket18R]

How old of a gen x is to old? Any specific years

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

To add to what Jet said, the Gen LXT can use smack bar lengths or the gen x lengths.

For years, just find a good chassis. They are all pretty much the same.

[TheJet-09]

For Krooser:

http://www.4m.net/showthread.php?370920-Mastersbilt-spindle-measurements

[Matt49]

I have to second or third what others are saying. Night and day difference. With the old smack front end, if you miss the rotation of the car on corner entry one way or another, you'll fight to get it straight all they way to the flag stand. The GenX is MUCH more forgiving. It steers with the front end from the center off unless you are just way out in left field on setup.

[RCJ]

I updated my 08 myself.Getting the rack and bump steer figured out was the hardest part.

[CDNRocket18R]

Would a smackdown benefit from putting a rear unslung in like the new cars to make them more ridged?

[TheJet-09]

Others probably have a different take, or certainly a better understanding, but I look at anything beyond the rear coilover mounts as merely holding up the fuel cell/body. Now if you've ever stood on the rear bumper with the car on jack stands, you'd definitely see what flex the tail section has. I like the ease of adjustability with an overrail tail section, meaning the underslung part cannot get in the way, with LR droop, etc. I think there was a time when some cars (certain Rockets) were removing the RR underslung.

If not already done, I think the greatest change that can be made to your car (an '08 Smackdown) is raising the center section (where the R&P bolts on). It's not hard to do. You could look into raising the right hand frame rail as well. I planned on doing that next on my '07, but moved on to the Gen-X instead.

[CDNRocket18R]

is it just being raised up or moved back some as well. Just curious on which way to go

[Krooser]

What's an LXT?

[Krooser]

Thanks Jet... I forgot about that thread.

[collateralDamage]

What's an LXT?

Basically, LXT has bolt-in 4 link plates for the bottom bars. Cars will have a T at the end of the serial number.

[Matt49]

Smackdown cars use 17.5" upper 4-bars and 15.5" lower 4-bars.
Gen-X cars use 18.25" upper 4-bars and 16" lower 4-bars.
The LXT has two rows of holes for the uppers so you can run either configuration but it didn't make sense to put two rows of holes c2c 1/2" apart on the bottom for obvious reason. Hence the blot in plates are needed so that you can run either setup.
LXT has Gen-X frond end and most everything else about it is Gen-X design. The right frame rail is higher in the rear than a regular Gen-X which requires a difference in ride height of 3/4" to get your static geometry correct.

[Krooser]

Thanks Matt... I'm thinking of updating the four bar mounts on my 1894 MB wide combo... I mean 1994! The bottom brackets only have two holes (was a leaf car)... the top has about five but are single shear. I ordered some brackets form A&A and will do a mock-up and see how they will work.

Hope I didn't hijack this thread to much... as usual you guys have been lots of help...

[tin man]

Also. The LXT right side frame rail is raised an inch higher than the H cars. There is one less lower link hole on an LXT vs an H car

[TheJet-09]

CDNRocket18R: The crossmember is simply raised up. I cut mine horizontally just above the tube that the R&P plate is welded to, then literally cut and fit it to sit inside/on top of the down tubes (where the lower control arms bolt to). With the R&P now higher, you need to go to slotted ends on the R&P, or you'll probably never get bump steer even close. The supports for the crossmember that run back towards the motorplate will also need to be cut/realigned/welded. For the right hand support tube, I just cut/welded it from underneath the right hand motormount.

Another difference between the Smackdown and Gen-X is the lower control arms on a Smackdown bolt behind the crossmember whereas they bolt in front of the crossmember on a Gen-X (which puts it further back, helping to keep it out of the ground even more).

I believe a few years back someone (I forget who) posted pics of an updated crossmember they put on a Smackdown (I'm fairly certain), and it resembled that of a Rocket. I remember thinking it looked like some high quality work. If I can find the thread, I'll post the link.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

CDNRocket18R: The crossmember is simply raised up. I cut mine horizontally just above the tube that the R&P plate is welded to, then literally cut and fit it to sit inside/on top of the down tubes (where the lower control arms bolt to). With the R&P now higher, you need to go to slotted ends on the R&P, or you'll probably never get bump steer even close. The supports for the crossmember that run back towards the motorplate will also need to be cut/realigned/welded. For the right hand support tube, I just cut/welded it from underneath the right hand motormount.

Another difference between the Smackdown and Gen-X is the lower control arms on a Smackdown bolt behind the crossmember whereas they bolt in front of the crossmember on a Gen-X (which puts it further back, helping to keep it out of the ground even more).

I believe a few years back someone (I forget who) posted pics of an updated crossmember they put on a Smackdown (I'm fairly certain), and it resembled that of a Rocket. I remember thinking it looked like some high quality work. If I can find the thread, I'll post the link.

Jet,

I am pretty sure the rack mounting holes are up and back. The Gen X style cars have more angle in the tie rods when looking down on them from above. This gives the car more "Ackerman" and is part of the reason they turn so well.

[TheJet-09]

^^^ Agreed, I have noticed the amount of Ackerman on the Gen-X as compared to the Smackdown. Almost looks like something isn't right when looking down on it. I believe the Gen-X also calls for only 3/8" of toe out while the Smackdown was more like 3/4".

So when they raise the crossmember, they also move the rack plate back? Or maybe I misunderstood. I just raised mine up in the same location front to back.

[Krooser]

I noticed on my car that the steering arms do not run parrallel to the lower control arms... parrallel and equal length with the lowers was what we strived for when we searched for zero bumpster with a Ford stub 30 years ago... a shorter steering arm on my MB spindles would fix that plus give my old 3.4 rack a little quicker ratio, too.

Comments?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I noticed on my car that the steering arms do not run parrallel to the lower control arms... parrallel and equal length with the lowers was what we strived for when we searched for zero bumpster with a Ford stub 30 years ago... a shorter steering arm would fix that plus give my old 3.4 rack a little quicker ratio, too.

Comments?
That's old thinking.

[Krooser]

Well I AM old... so that would explain some of it.

[let-r-eat]

What's the new thinking? Geometry change over the years?

[Krooser]

The "old way" with a rear steer setup was to have the steering arms angle inward at the back of the spindle...when drawing a straight line from the ball joint thru the tie rod end the lines from each side would intersect at the differential... That was good. If you had straight steering arms the line would run parallel to infinity and that was bad.

You could never get zero bumpsteer with rear steering arms because the lca's and the tie rods we're operated on different planes and we're different lengths. I ran Impala steering arms on a '65 Ford stub and fabd my own centerline to correct bump steer...but that took all the Ackerman away.

[CDNRocket18R]

Ok another question. If I decide to keep this car and updates the cross member I’m thinking about running a stacked RF.any suggestions where to start for springs

[fastford]

most call it a 2 stage , which is what it is , on rt front , if you will search this section , you will find some great info already posted......

[TheJet-09]

I just started messing around with a two stage (I know, I'm behind). I first tried a 600/600 and felt that was maybe too stiff. I've since dropped to a 500/500. I've heard of guys running a 800/400, and from what I understand are crazy soft now. My numbers are also on a Gen-X using the inboard lower mount, so the motion ratio is softer than what those same springs would be on your Smackdown. I think a 250# on the outer mount is roughly a 225# on the inner mount (but don't quote me on that).

You have a lot of options overall, especially at this time of the year. Cars are starting to come up for sale more, so depending on where you're located you might find something. I saw a Smackdown on racingjunk just now. Has a new stub and interior.

[fastford]

thats what i found worked best for me, 500/500 , I floundered around to start with , and then hooked up with jerry link , whos now at afco , and he put me on the 500/500 , which worked best for me.....

[TheJet-09]

^^^ Drifting off topic now, but is anyone running the new AFCO shocks that Jerry came up with? I only saw an add for them that someone shared on here, but I don't see anyone selling them. I like the set I got from him while still at SHY, but I need something for next year.