Dixie metal works and racing

[zyoung25]

Seems they have stomped on the toes of the people at longhorn, by selling a direct copy of the longhorn car. But their calling chassis an "LH1."

Anybody know much about this operation?

[formercrewguy]

No big deal. The XR1 is also a copy of a Longhorn...lol

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Seems they have stomped on the toes of the people at longhorn, by selling a direct copy of the longhorn car. But their calling chassis an "LH1."

Anybody know much about this operation?


No but that copy will be old as new one in the works

[Krooser]

$5600 iirc...

[Highside Hustler25]

Dixie also claims they manufacture Rockets and Bloomer chassis. Interesting.

[RocketChassisPR]

No big deal. The XR1 is also a copy of a Longhorn...lolAny accusation of intellectual property theft by Rocket Chassis dba Mark Richards Racing, Inc. is considered serious and we will no longer tolerate this kind of libel behavior. Anyone who wants to accuse Rocket Chassis of stealing a competitor's design will be contacted from our attorney to begin the defamation litigation process.

[W2Racing09]

Any accusation of intellectual property theft by Rocket Chassis dba Mark Richards Racing, Inc. is considered serious and we will no longer tolerate this kind of libel behavior. Anyone who wants to accuse Rocket Chassis of stealing a competitor's design will be contacted from our attorney to begin the defamation litigation process.

This is my new favorite poster here at 4m, sorry onlyfacts you are still 2nd place!

[Barbecueboy]

So gullible........good grief.


Good one blackie

[W2Racing09]

So gullible........good grief.


Good one blackie

I doubt its official, I can't imagine anyone who isn't an attorney would use language like that. I just thought that post was excellent.

With that said, do you really think Blackie could string together such a well punctuated post with no major spelling errors? Doubtful.

[Barbecueboy]

Any accusation of intellectual property theft by Rocket Chassis dba Mark Richards Racing, Inc. is considered serious and we will no longer tolerate this kind of libel behavior. Anyone who wants to accuse Rocket Chassis of stealing a competitor's design will be contacted from our attorney to begin the defamation litigation process.

Get your attorney to write your 4 m posts for you Mark.........libel behavior, lol.

Cj wants his intellectual property back..............from everyone.

[Barbecueboy]

I doubt its official, I can't imagine anyone who isn't an attorney would use language like that. I just thought that post was excellent.

With that said, do you really think Blackie could string together such a well punctuated post with no major spelling errors? Doubtful.

Why yes, yes he can............I think you mean litey with the spelling and grammatical errors.

An attorney would have most likely called it libelous behavior .........but what do I know?

[W2Racing09]

Why yes, yes he can............I think you mean litey with the spelling and grammatical errors.

An attorney would have most likely called it libelous behavior .........but what do I know?

Its probably another site user as you suggested, although if it were Mark or a Rocket employee then I would be thrilled that they were taking a stand against the kind of BS that spreads around on here. Either way I thought the account and post were well timed and it made me laugh.

Believe it or not BBQ, whenever I post here you do not always have to try to pick a fight or try to cause stuff. You have been doing fine for most of this season without me posting here/arguing with you. Lets continue that trend.

Thanks,
Jeff.

[Jking24]

Dixie also claims they manufacture Rockets and Bloomer chassis. Interesting.I believe they were referring to the brands that they make bumpers and such for

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

So gullible........good grief.


Good one blackie

Hahahahaha

[TheJet-09]

I think Dixie Metal Works posted that they make bumpers for Rocket and Bloomquist cars (as JKing24 posted before me), not the actual chassis, but I could be wrong.

As for the copy thing and any potential ramifications, I equate it to the music industry. We probably wouldn't have 50% of the music out there if it weren't for the Beatles. You need look no further than the career of someone like Vanilla Ice to see you can be very close to the original, yet still call it your own. And there may always be some type of permission given anyway, or Weird Al Yankovic wouldn't have had the success he did.

[President Clinton]

Is there a copyright on chassis????

[Barbecueboy]

Its probably another site user as you suggested, although if it were Mark or a Rocket employee then I would be thrilled that they were taking a stand against the kind of BS that spreads around on here. Either way I thought the account and post were well timed and it made me laugh.

Believe it or not BBQ, whenever I post here you do not always have to try to pick a fight or try to cause stuff. You have been doing fine for most of this season without me posting here/arguing with you. Lets continue that trend.

Thanks,
Jeff.
By speaking the truth , I'm trying to cause stuff?.........I feel the same way Jeff,you don't always have to get on the defensive when someone disagrees or has something to say about the nasa group either.

No beef with you whatsoever, but don't expect me to be some kind of PC phony either.....if it needs to be said, it's probably going to be if I can do it and stay within the forum tire rules.

[zeroracing]

They are making a copy, but started off extremely dishonest, they pitched the car originally on Facebook and at local tracks as a Longhorn by Dixie. Giving all implications that they were affiliated with Longhorn chassis, and you were buying a real longhorn. They then changed it to a an LH1. They also have argued to justify the copy. My complaints are I dislike direct copies aware that many cars are close to others, but more importantly I found it to be dishonest to directly imply that they were affiliated with Longhorn.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Dixie also claims they manufacture Rockets and Bloomer chassis. Interesting.

I thought it was just bumpers and components for those cars?

[tb1545]

There is a huge distinction between the chassis manufacturers games of "copying" each others designs as the 4m know it alls put it and what the dixie metal works guys were doing. The manufacturers get their hands on someone elses chassis, they do take the good ideas from it, but they but their own tweaks on it to make it their own design and market it as such. They put their own thoughts on how to make it better and what materials to use where went into it.
What the dixie outfit was doing (until they changed all their posts) was they were selling a 2017 Longhorn by Dixie metal works. That would imply that they were either a dealer for longhorn or had permission to make a longhorn chassis, both of which they were not. They also have pictures on their facebook page thanking different guys for bringing their chassis in so they could copy it. I understand repairs and things, but advertising copying someone elses work doesnt usually settle well with most racers.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

There is a huge distinction between the chassis manufacturers games of "copying" each others designs as the 4m know it alls put it and what the dixie metal works guys were doing. The manufacturers get their hands on someone elses chassis, they do take the good ideas from it, but they but their own tweaks on it to make it their own design and market it as such. They put their own thoughts on how to make it better and what materials to use where went into it.
What the dixie outfit was doing (until they changed all their posts) was they were selling a 2017 Longhorn by Dixie metal works. That would imply that they were either a dealer for longhorn or had permission to make a longhorn chassis, both of which they were not. They also have pictures on their facebook page thanking different guys for bringing their chassis in so they could copy it. I understand repairs and things, but advertising copying someone elses work doesnt usually settle well with most racers.

What they did was very wrong, as you stated. But the making it something of their own is not how it has always gone in this game...

[MI Dirt Fan]

Mark Richards posted here a few weeks ago to clear up info on sponsoring a provisional at the Pittsburgher.

I agree with President Clinton (shockingly lol) is there a copy right? Who's to say I can't buy a car from xxx chassis maker whether it's new or previously raced (maybe a house car) and build my own exact copy using measurements and dimensions. You can build 20 cars altogether in a row with the same parts and materials and they all won't drive the same.

[Josh Bayko]

Is there a copyright on chassis????

If a builder applied for a copyright for their chassis, yes.

[Highside Hustler25]

So gullible........good grief.


Good one blackie

.............:D................lol

Good one BBQ.

[President Clinton]

What exactly is proprietary in welding tubing together??? Can you even get a patent???

[Highside Hustler25]

I believe they were referring to the brands that they make bumpers and such for


I thought it was just bumpers and components for those cars?

Very possible. I would be shocked if true. Especially Bloomquist chassis.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I guess the only way to know if a car is true to it's original chassis maker is the numbers on the chassis???

[Illtsate32]

What exactly is proprietary in welding tubing together??? Can you even get a patent???I highly doubt it but even if you can you could copy the, car and make one body brace one degree of an angle different the say its not a copy...

[Barbecueboy]

If a builder applied for a copyright for their chassis, yes.

Wouldn't it be a patent instead of a copywrite? I was under the opinion that a copywrite protected the name of something ........like the mcnugget or Tide soap or whatever?

Lot of people have those same things they just can't call them that? It's more of a question, im not sure.

[President Clinton]

If we can get enough orders, I will hire a welder and fabricator and copy/build Longhorn or Rockets and take my chances in front of a jury!!!! Place your order now

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Very possible. I would be shocked if true. Especially Bloomquist chassis.

The guy used to work for Bloomer.

[President Clinton]

Heck Randy Sweet and CJ Rayburn should be suing everyone????????

[zeroracing]

Copyrights on Engineering proposals or plans protect your intellectual property. So a set up manual for it would be covered.

Prime example is the architect that pitched an idea for a sports themed park to Disney they passed but years later built a themed park. He won $248 million from Disney. So the debate is would a copyright if they had one on the design drawings cover it?

[Josh Bayko]

Wouldn't it be a patent instead of a copywrite? I was under the opinion that a copywrite protected the name of something ........like the mcnugget or Tide soap or whatever?

Lot of people have those same things they just can't call them that? It's more of a question, im not sure.

I think you’re probably right, it probably would be a patent. Thing is, you want to be competitve in the chassis business, you’re going to be making pretty major changes to whatever design fairly often, and I’d imagine that would have implications on the patent if they had one.

Getting a patent/copyright/trademark isn’t particularly expensive, but the process itself can be a bit of a pain in the ass. I could see it not really being worth the time in a constantly evolving business.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

No big deal. The XR1 is also a copy of a Longhorn...lolSure it is, just keep repeating yourself. Must really blow when the XR1 has won both championships and placed top 3 or better in the World and the DTWC.

[fastford]

I asked larry shaw a long time ago why he did not apply for a patent and he said it would be to easy to break, change a few bars that are irrelevant and you have a new product....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Sure it is, just keep repeating yourself. Must really blow when the XR1 has won both championships and placed top 3 or better in the World and the DTWC.

Its like man and woman. Same creator.

[zyoung25]

The thing that bothers me about these cars, they're not professionally made. They look nice sitting there, i just wonder how safe they really are?

I seen a price, a bare frame was 5600, which is dirt cheap. But again, how safe are they?

[Krooser]

Who sez the guys that weld other chassis are professional? There aren't any credntials required... you need electricity, gas, a welder and tubing.

And $5600 is about right for a bare late model chassis unless it's the latest boutique piece...

BTW... I'm now taking orders for repop'd obsolete Mastersbilt chassis' without the updates.

[zyoung25]

Who sez the guys jay weld other chassis are professional? There aren't any credntials required... you need electricity, gas, a welder and tubing.

And $5600 is about right for a bare late model chassis unless it's the latest boutique piece...

BTW... I'm now taking orders for repop'd obsolete Mastersbilt chassis' without the updates.

I have to laugh at how critcal people are on here sometimes.

So youre saying i could go get a job at longhorn welding cars together on a daily basis, even though i dont know jack sh!t about welding and you would buy it? Cuz we know what that would look like after its done.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I have to laugh at how critcal people are on here sometimes.

So youre saying i could go get a job at longhorn welding cars together on a daily basis, even though i dont know jack sh!t about welding and you would buy it? Cuz we know what that would look like after its done.

There are cars built by people who don't weld all that well. You don't have to be a certified welder. Just build a car and sell it. Or weld good enough for a builder to hire you. In that case, the company is the quality control.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Its like man and woman. Same creator.And again, never seen actual proof of that, rumors yes, but no proof. You get Mark or Kevin on record saying it, fine. And if true, no different than what Longhorn did. Actually not as bad, Longhorns were awful till Kevin, when the XR1 came out, the older Rockets were just a tick off.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

There are cars built by people who don't weld all that well. You don't have to be a certified welder. Just build a car and sell it. Or weld good enough for a builder to hire you. In that case, the company is the quality control.And that’s scary, because you can make a weld look good, but if you haven’t actually penetrated and made a strong weld, it’s death. And can all be covered up with powder coating.

[Illtsate32]

These were mod chassis but...ive seen 4 bar brackets literally ripped off the chassis just from the welds not holding...

[Barbecueboy]

And again, never seen actual proof of that, rumors yes, but no proof. You get Mark or Kevin on record saying it, fine. And if true, no different than what Longhorn did. Actually not as bad, Longhorns were awful till Kevin, when the XR1 came out, the older Rockets were just a tick off.

Longhorn copied their own chassis.......FYI

It's way different what they did......of course they were racing a dump truck chassis.

[Josh Bayko]

IIRC, Mark did come out and say Kevin did do some consulting work for him. Not that I blame Mark, in this sport, you either adapt or die on the vine.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Longhorn copied their own chassis.......FYI

It's way different what they did......of course they were racing a dump truck chassis.Well they hired Kevin to fix their Mack, and supposedly Mark had Kevin help with the design of the XR1.

Guess we will agree to disagree on the difference.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Well they hired Kevin to fix their Mack, and supposedly Mark had Kevin help with the design of the XR1.

Guess we will agree to disagree on the difference.

Not sure what you guys are arguing, but Kevin's Longhorn was basically starting with a blank sheet of paper.

XR1 came along and shared many elements that were new to the sport.

[Krooser]

I've hired a new spokesperson for my new line of copy-cat chassis... I believe the old saying 'it's not who you are it's who people THINK you are'....

[Barbecueboy]

Well they hired Kevin to fix their Mack, and supposedly Mark had Kevin help with the design of the XR1.

Guess we will agree to disagree on the difference.

Yes and yes......we don't disagree at all.

I think the longhorn program was almost a complete redesign......the help at rocket was for a substantially more advanced program......doubtful Kevin started from scratch there.

Didn't start from scratch at longhorn either, but close.

[MBR Performance]

On a jig the Longhorn and the XR1 suspension points are all within 3/8"

[grt74]

On a jig the Longhorn and the XR1 suspension points are all within 3/8"

i was waiting for someone to chime in on that little fact, they are very close

[Krooser]

zyoung25... I never said that. I'm sure if you walked into any race car shop that was looking for help and layed down a couple beads, bent and fitted a few bars you'd have a job. With the 'electric caulking guns' in use today (MIG) it's just not that difficult to learn. The old style stick welding was a lot harder to master.

Now TIG is a little different... it takes some practice to lay down a 'roll of dimes' as they say.

But to say that you need to be certified to be a good race car fabricator is just wrong. Experience is your certification...

Drop by my shop here in Wisconsin... I have two MIG machines here that I'd be willing to let you learn on.

[Barbecueboy]

On a jig the Longhorn and the XR1 suspension points are all within 3/8"

Shocking.......

[fastford]

zyoung25... I never said that. I'm sure if you walked into any race car shop that was looking for help and layed down a couple beads, bent and fitted a few bars you'd have a job. With the 'electric caulking guns' in use today (MIG) it's just not that difficult to learn. The old style stick welding was a lot harder to master.

Now TIG is a little different... it takes some practice to lay down a 'roll of dimes' as they say.

But to say that you need to be certified to be a good race car fabricator is just wrong. Experience is your certification...

Drop by my shop here in Wisconsin... I have two MIG machines here that I'd be willing to let you learn on.

I,m still using my dads old miller matic 200 to this day , we have a newer one but it just dont weld as good to me , probably just me though.....

[Krooser]

I've owned three Millermatic 35's over the last 35 years... Two new one used. I always thought they were the best until I used a newer machine with inverter technology...what a difference! I'm a guy who doesn't embrace new tech without proving it's better than what I have... it's better.

Now I have sold my big welders and use a Hobart 180 and a Lincoln 175... I just don't do much heavy fabrication anymore.

[dirtcrazy4u]

You guys think these welders don't have to prove themselves you just mite be touching yourself. Any word would get out about bad welds it would spread like a wildfire. I'm sure somebody is checking every weld. Welding tubing is a lot different than plate. My background is welding chrome moly on sprint cars. Tig is a pain in the arsh. If your in a rush Tig is not for ahybody. Welding is all about penitration. I've seen welds that look good to the eye but we're garbage.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

You guys think these welders don't have to prove themselves you just mite be touching yourself. Any word would get out about bad welds it would spread like a wildfire. I'm sure somebody is checking every weld. Welding tubing is a lot different than plate. My background is welding chrome moly on sprint cars. Tig is a pain in the arsh. If your in a rush Tig is not for ahybody. Welding is all about penitration. I've seen welds that look good to the eye but we're garbage.I’d mentioned that in another post, I think this thread. There are welds that look like works of art, but if isn’t penetrating the metal, it’s worthless and dangerous.

[Bubstr]

Being a good welder is all about heat control, not penetration. Yes you need penetration, but a weld layed down too hot is sometimes worse than one that s just a little short on penetration. You lose the temper in the metal your welding and it cracks next to the weld. For someone that has been around welding, all you have to do to know a good weld is listen. A good weld has a distinct sound to the crackle.

When you buy a chassis, the only quality control you have is trust in your builder.