Provisional starting positions are a necessary part of series racing

[Returning to Dirt]

http://insidedirtracing.com/provisional-starting-positions-are-a-necessary-part-of-series-racing/

Some like them. Some hate them. Here's my argument for why provisionals are a necessity.

[Krooser]

The provsionals and promoters choices have been around forever. Do you want the fans in the stands for a "special" or not?

[Phatdaddy]

I don't' really like provisionals, but I understand why the series regulars like them. From a fans standpoint, can't say I know too many fans who leave the track mad or disappointed that their favorite driver didn't make a particular race. (At least not adult fans)
The deal with the Rocket Provisional at PPMS last year was too much though.
Maybe if a provisional just guaranteed a start in the back of the B main, then it wouldn't be viewed as such a crutch.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

I like the idea of provisionals. I think, as has been said, it gives drivers some insurance against things out of their control, or just a bad night.
I think they do need to be limited. My fav driver growing up was Darrell Waltrip, and I have to say, that those last few years were tough to take. Seeing a hero limping around and making races because of that past champions provisional.
I like the idea of segmenting the season, and rewarding drivers for not using provisionals.
You break the season up into 3rds. You give each driver X amount of provisionals per segment. Maybe 2 per 1/3, for a total of 6.
At the end of the year, if a driver is in the top 10 in points and uses zero provisionals, maybe increase the point money payout, or give them some sort of weekly bonus the following year, an extra 100.00 a week toe money.

[blncfn57]

Provisional starting spots are racing's version of participation trophies IMO. These guys are already getting travel money and show up points, let the fastest guys race every night. While you're at it, get rid of this nonsense where you take the top 2 or 3 out of the heats, but 4 or 5 from the B-main. bass ackwards IMO

[rickybrown1952]

I think they are nessecery for instance if a driver in Lucus oil series is in second in points only 10 points behind goes out for his heat race gets collected comes in last starts last in B-main comes in 5th doesn't make the A-main this guy needs a provisional

[blncfn57]

I think they are nessecery for instance if a driver in Lucus oil series is in second in points only 10 points behind goes out for his heat race gets collected comes in last starts last in B-main comes in 5th doesn't make the A-main this guy needs a provisional

The same could happen to the guy leading the points the very next race. It's no different than running last this week, next week the guy you're battling with for points may have a bad night also.

[jog49]

You should join forces with Senator Chuck Schumer. He likes to hand out freebies too! At any event, anything a driver gets should be earned. No ifs, ands, or buts.

[TS FAN]

There is no getting around provisionals if we are going to have traveling racing series. A Traveling racing series would fall apart without them. What can be negotiated is that all big races have a 24 car starting field of earned spots. Then the racing series can add any provisionals that they care to.

[TackyTracker]

I really don't mind the provisional but don't these guys get tow $$$ also.. Doesn't seem fair to the local guy that won't get a chance at either

[smoothoperator32]

Supercross does not allow provisional

[Mindwalker]

Without em... Lower car counts.

[a25rjr]

I don't mind the provisionals, but please limit the emergency provisionals! Those seem to get abused!

[Josh Bayko]

I don’t understand the train of thought that provisionals screw non touring drivers out of starting spots. They don’t. Provisionals are always added to the back of the field behind all of the cars that legit qualified.

[a25rjr]

When you guys start working for a team maybe then you will understand the importance. Even helping with a regional team this money on the bad nights helps get us to the next race. It amazes me that ya'll think everybody that races has a pocket full of money. Ya'll whine and moan like a bunch of kids to get the cars more competitive. Stiffen the rules. Make these things cheaper. But holy sh1t when it comes to giving a provisional to get paid you b1tch even more. We need that money to help pay for a couple of tires, race fuel, pit passes, and diesel fuel. The guys I help ALL have full time jobs. We bust our backside every week to get our stuff ready to go race. Once in a while we have a bad night. No matter what the reason is for that bad night we get a 2nd chance to race thru a provisional. We follow these series around to put on a show for the fans and make enough money to get to the next show. The National teams are no different. None of us have a money tree planted in our yard. If we did then we wouldn't need sponsors and we wouldn't need provisional......

Well said......no keyboard racer here! ^^^^^^^^^^^

[Highside Hustler25]

I don't mind the provisionals, but please limit the emergency provisionals! Those seem to get abused!

Yes !!!! Yes !!! Yes !!!

[blncfn57]

The Gods have spoken. Nobody else on this forum knows anything!!

[cgrace]

I think they are needed. I also thought if you take a provisional you give up your start money in Woo or LUcas.

[DirtWv77]

Don't get me wrong... I enjoy Dirt Racing far more, but it's so hypocritical when our own dirt racing fans talk crap on NASCAR for having "provisionals" when our own premier series's use them as well. You should RACE your way in.. simple as that.

[Phatdaddy]

When you guys start working for a team maybe then you will understand the importance. Even helping with a regional team this money on the bad nights helps get us to the next race. It amazes me that ya'll think everybody that races has a pocket full of money. Ya'll whine and moan like a bunch of kids to get the cars more competitive. Stiffen the rules. Make these things cheaper. But holy sh1t when it comes to giving a provisional to get paid you b1tch even more. We need that money to help pay for a couple of tires, race fuel, pit passes, and diesel fuel. The guys I help ALL have full time jobs. We bust our backside every week to get our stuff ready to go race. Once in a while we have a bad night. No matter what the reason is for that bad night we get a 2nd chance to race thru a provisional. We follow these series around to put on a show for the fans and make enough money to get to the next show. The National teams are no different. None of us have a money tree planted in our yard. If we did then we wouldn't need sponsors and we wouldn't need provisional......
This is a discussion 4m. We respect your opinion, but these forums are like a group of people tailgating, having a discussion about whatever topic we like.. I highly doubt you would walk up to any of us and tell us we are whining like a bunch of kids. We can say and express anything we like on here. If we are so clueless, and you are so offended, then go find a crewchief message board and post on there. You will not be missed.

[TackyTracker]

try not to forget that us whiny kids bust our backsides to be able to get to the races

[Phatdaddy]

Thats a good one!!! I haven't chuckled so hard since Hillary thought she would be president.... 

Guess I should have said : "We SHOULD be able to say and express anything we like on this message board" as long as it's not grossly offensive or slanderous

[weatherman85]

See both sides of it but totally agree with the emergency ones being abused. It was also very clear that Bloomer was abusing the system a good bit last year. 2-4 regular provisionals at most and I'm happy.

[3 wide]

Well that is one reason why the car count will be low for Lucas an woo you got looks like 18 to 20 cars in each sanction then by the time you throw in the provisionals and fast timer not in the race and promoters choose an etc.the odds of a local guy making the race is going to be real small.

[Josh Bayko]

Well that is one reason why the car count will be low for Lucas an woo you got looks like 18 to 20 cars in each sanction then by the time you throw in the provisionals and fast timer not in the race and promoters choose an etc.the odds of a local guy making the race is going to be real small.

Provisionals start after all the cars that qualified on merit. How does that prevent local/regional drivers from making fields?

[3 wide]

Do the math last year they had 10-12 this year looks like 18-20 it not hard to figure out.

[Josh Bayko]

Do the math last year they had 10-12 this year looks like 18-20 it not hard to figure out.

Provisionals are only used to by drivers that don’t qualify and they start at the back, behind the qualified drivers. That’s not taking any spots from a local driver in any way. They have the same chance as anybody to make the field.

[WatchThis]

Josh - I agree that making the field should be based on merit. If you eliminate (or reduce) provisionals, then you can take maybe one more place out of each heat or one more out of each B-main. That, to me, is really merit based.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Provisionals start after all the cars that qualified on merit. How does that prevent local/regional drivers from making fields?

The promoter has a budget for size of starting field. Typically, 24 cars. True, emergency provisionals do not add to the purse because they pay no start money. Only the difference if the driver advances to where they receive more than start money. On the flipside, if all series drivers advance and none use the allocated points provisionals, the promoter will fill the field with a local driver.

[Josh Bayko]

The promoter has a budget for size of starting field. Typically, 24 cars. True, emergency provisionals do not add to the purse because they pay no start money. Only the difference if the driver advances to where they receive more than start money. On the flipside, if all series drivers advance and none use the allocated points provisionals, the promoter will fill the field with a local driver.

I’m gonna guess that promoters typically budget for 28 cars. 24 qualified cars, 2 series provisionals, and 2 promoters choice provisionals. Anything above and beyond that is going to be the emergency sort.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Bayko,

You are from the land of giant race tracks. I don't see any 28 car fields except Eldora. LOL

[Josh Bayko]

Bayko,

You are from the land of giant race tracks. I don't see any 28 car fields except Eldora. LOL

Lol, I suppose you’re right. Starting 28 on a 1/4 mile bullring might be asking too much.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

They don't even start 28 at the world's smallest half mile, Florence.

[a25rjr]

They used to start 60 at the 1/4 mile Memorial Stadium in Daytona, yearrrrrrrrrs ago! My dad said it was CRAZEEEEE!

[CageFaraday]

Provisional starting spots are racing's version of participation trophies IMO. These guys are already getting travel money and show up points, let the fastest guys race every night. While you're at it, get rid of this nonsense where you take the top 2 or 3 out of the heats, but 4 or 5 from the B-main. bass ackwards IMO

I could NOT agree with you MORE!

[slmcrewchief99]

Got my hand slapped by 1 of the moderators or I would have already replied. Get mad at me if you want but anybody that races with any of the National or Regional Series deserve any provisional they get. It is what it is.....

[IZZOJR16]

Yeah crappy necessary evil of series racing. Although summer nationals get way carried away with provs.

[IZZOJR16]

Yes !!!! Yes !!! Yes !!!🤙🤙🤙 summer nationals come to mind

[TS FAN]

They used to start 60 at the 1/4 mile Memorial Stadium in Daytona, yearrrrrrrrrs ago! My dad said it was CRAZEEEEE!

My Uncle went down there and they often started new drivers to the track up front. He got clipped and rolled over in front of the field. He said he only remember getting knocked all over the place and when he got out of the car, he passed out. It was crazy.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Got my hand slapped by 1 of the moderators or I would have already replied. Get mad at me if you want but anybody that races with any of the National or Regional Series deserve any provisional they get. It is what it is.....

Just for going up and down the road? As others have said, the national guys get money just to pull thru the gate.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

Just for going up and down the road? As others have said, the national guys get money just to pull thru the gate.

It's not just for going up and down the road. These guys are committing to, and advertising for, and promoting the series. It's a benefit of the series. Just like vacation days are a benefit from my work, and health insurance. The series do this for the drivers who commit to them. NOW, I will say, I think it would be entirely appropriate for the series to implement a rule that says that if you commit to the series and then drop off, you will lose provisionals the next time you run with that series, and will lose any point money you earned.

[slmcrewchief99]

Just for going up and down the road? As others have said, the national guys get money just to pull thru the gate.
And the National guys log thousands of miles from North Dakota to Central Florida too. That travel money has nothing to do with provisional starting spots. These guys commit to a series to follow them all over the country so the commitment the series gives them with provisionals is that "just" reward. Drivers can only use 3 provisionals in a row with Lucas. I assume it's that way with WoO. It's not like a driver can use 30 in a row to race every time they show up. It doesn't work that way. Every series I know of has them and the provisional starters must tag the tail of the field. NOBODY gets knocked out of the race to make room for a provisional starter.

I'm gonna go along with what BHfan said. I've worked at my job for 32 plus years. I get 6 weeks vacation, 4 weeks sick leave, and the various National Holidays every calendar year. Because I'm committed to my employer, he commits to me the reward of the paid off time. All the National and Regional Series out there has that commitment to each driver that is committed to that Series. That commitment is with the promise of guaranteed provisionals that each driver has earned. I'm glad these guys get them. They are well deserved.....

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

And the National guys log thousands of miles from North Dakota to Central Florida too. That travel money has nothing to do with provisional starting spots. These guys commit to a series to follow them all over the country so the commitment the series gives them with provisionals is that "just" reward. Drivers can only use 3 provisionals in a row with Lucas. I assume it's that way with WoO. It's not like a driver can use 30 in a row to race every time they show up. It doesn't work that way. Every series I know of has them and the provisional starters must tag the tail of the field. NOBODY gets knocked out of the race to make room for a provisional starter.

I'm gonna go along with what BHfan said. I've worked at my job for 32 plus years. I get 6 weeks vacation, 4 weeks sick leave, and the various National Holidays every calendar year. Because I'm committed to my employer, he commits to me the reward of the paid off time. All the National and Regional Series out there has that commitment to each driver that is committed to that Series. That commitment is with the promise of guaranteed provisionals that each driver has earned. I'm glad these guys get them. They are well deserved.....

You are gonna have to explain Flinner to me? New rule no 3 in a row?

4 weeks sick pay? You must be in a hell of a union. 10 weeks off is part time. Lol.

I am sick of the regional and national deals where a guy gets placed in every show to get in the way. It happens a lot.