Pierce claims to be first

[PBR66]

In this article he claims to be the first to use docol. Seems pretty easy to claim something if people can't prove it to deny it. Or does it show how poor of a bussiness man he is to have stumbled on to it and not profit from it or atleast make his son unbeatable?https://racingnews.co/2018/01/28/bob-pierce-on-costs-docol-tubing-race-car-design/

[Josh Bayko]

I highly doubt he was the first to use it.

[huskerdirt]

His son did win a few big races on a chassis using docol tubing. It’s hard to take advantage of that when nobody besides your son is winning at a high level.

I’m guessing this is where the term Pierce Platinum came from.

[Illtsate32]

Anybody know whats the difference in price between regular steel tubing and this stuff?

[Kromulous]

I think its about $600 over DOM, thats a LM chassis, price per foot not sure.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

In this article he claims to be the first to use docol. Seems pretty easy to claim something if people can't prove it to deny it. Or does it show how poor of a bussiness man he is to have stumbled on to it and not profit from it or atleast make his son unbeatable?https://racingnews.co/2018/01/28/bob-pierce-on-costs-docol-tubing-race-car-design/

That stuff was in drag racing for years before a LM was built from it. There is no real magic to it. Not like it will make a car a winner due to tubing.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Are all xr-1's being built with this or is it a upgrade ?

[BloomerHarvickFan]

I wouldn't surprise me to find out that Bloomquist has at least experimented with this. Didn't he use some kind of different shaped tubing several years back? Like teardrop shaped or something to that effect?

[JustAddDirt]

I wouldn't surprise me to find out that Bloomquist has at least experimented with this. Didn't he use some kind of different shaped tubing several years back? Like teardrop shaped or something to that effect?


I think that was the car he called "Airplane"
the cage was made from an aircraft wing tubing shaped like a teardrop. I think he done it for aero, and the wow factor.

at least that was the story I heard..
it was more than likely a moly of some sort.

[heinen81]

I talked with the Docol reps at PRI back in 2013, and they had mentioned to their knowledge, that only one dirt late model chassis maker had used it up to that point. The Docol reps were from Sweden if I remember correctly, and outside NHRA and some European stuff, they had said it wasn't being utilized much in dirt or rally stuff yet. I cant remember who they said made a DLM with it, because it was not one of the majors and it definitely wasn't Pierce. A few sprint car chassis makers have used it as an option as well, and up to today, it was not favored for those who tried it. As I write this, I am almost sure they said Lazer/Bernheisel (sp?).

[jog49]

SSAB recently exhibited at the PRI trade show (Performance Racing Industry) to educate more people about R8 tubing and its use for safety critical applications as well as to increase awareness of SSAB’s production capabilities. The staff also held daily seminars at the show.

“PRI is the largest motorsports exhibition of its type in the world,” said Kim. “It is a great forum for us to showcase who we are and what we do.”

Almost everything you need to build a race car or racing bike can be seen at this show—from fabricators of roll cages and chassis to engines, suspension, racing apparel, wheels, software and more. The show was held recently in Indianapolis, Indiana—the hub of motor sports in the U.S. and home for many of the racing teams.

“The attention we got at the show was amazing,” said Kim. “Nowhere else in the world is racing as popular as it is in the U.S.”
SSAB’s Docol tubing passed stringent tests and was approved in 2012 by the SFI Foundation which administers standards for quality assurance of specialty performance and racing equipment internationally. The approval was expanded to all SFI drag racing chassis in 2015.

“We’ve come a long way since the initial qualification of the product,” said Kim. “We used to hear customers ask what the product is—now they say I’ve heard about it and want to know more.”

Beyond drag racing, the product is growing in popularity among other applications as well. “We’ve received inquiries from rally car manufacturers, late model dirt and off road vehicles as well as from NASCAR wanting to know more about the material,” said Kim.

Docol R-Series Tubes had been produced in Borlange but production will be moving to Finland in the near future primarily at the Hämeenlinna plant or Lappohja as a second option.

About Docol R-Series Tubing
• Roll formed tube with longitudinal weld
• Highly ductile even in the heat affected zone; in crash situation absorbs a lot of energy before cracking
• Accepted by SFI who sets the safety standards for the racing industry
• Available as R-8 tubing (tensile strength of 800 MPa/116ksi) and R-10 (tensile strength of 1000 MPa/145ksi)
• Equivalent strength as Chrome-Moly 4130 with better ductility and weldability
• Weldable in MIG & TIG

[fastford]

seem,s like a great material from what ive studied it , just seem,s like someone would figure out how to make it here......

[Bubstr]

Sounds something like N series Chromemoly. 4130N Normalized with heat treat process. Does it have a SAE or AN number?

[Matt49]

Bloomer did something with an oval shaped tubing I think for aero under the car. It was banned in the name of safety. Frankly, and I'm a fan of Bloomquist, he has always been a little lax on safety but usually has valid arguments as to why. He was a late adopter of full containment seats sighting the increased difficulty in right side egress. He was a late adopter of window bars sighting the danger associated with decreased visibility. And he was a late adopter of fire suppression systems sighting the danger of the chemicals being used...although I think the chemicals in use now are better.
Anyway...Docol is some cool stuff and even if some US manufacturers get into I wouldn't expect the price to go down immediately. DoM in general I think is where the manufacturing cost goes up which is completely separate from the raw material cost. I have a client than manufacturers steel tubing (welded and DoM) and I'm going to make it a point to talk to someone more knowledgeable on the subject of cost next time I'm there. I've seen both manufacturing processes on factory tours I've taken there and it is really neat to watch if you're into that kind of thing.

[Escobar]

Are all xr-1's being built with this or is it a upgrade ?

All XR1 are being built with it. The Rocket1 primary car had 131 races on it.

[TPR30]

I think I remember seeing Mike Boland at Trak-Star being the first to use it.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

All XR1 are being built with it. The Rocket1 primary car had 131 races on it.

It almost certainly would have with DOM tubing as well. Likewise a docol car with a flaw at a weld end can rip apart in 10 races. Saw it myself.

[Clayton_Wetter]

The Docol has a very slightly smaller tube diameter and is slightly thinner than the 4130 steel.

[JustAddDirt]

I have heard of several DoCol cars roll cage ripping apart at the weld. but they are trying to use .83-.65 thickness in the cages.... suicide if you ask me.

I think in the name of safety that all latemodel and modified chassis should have a rule of a 1 3/4 .095 material rule.
don't care if it is Moly/DoCol/Dom. All Hoops and Halos in the main rollcage cage structure connecting to the main framerails should be that size and thickness. After that, do whatever you want to.

just the thoughts from a guy who does drive....and has a family.

[Illtsate32]

I have heard of several DoCol cars roll cage ripping apart at the weld. but they are trying to use .83-.65 thickness in the cages.... suicide if you ask me.I think in the name of safety that all latemodel and modified chassis should have a rule of a 1 3/4 .095 material rule.don't care if it is Moly/DoCol/Dom. All Hoops and Halos in the main rollcage cage structure connecting to the main framerails should be that size and thickness. After that, do whatever you want to.just the thoughts from a guy who does drive....and has a family.Yes perimeter cage and halo .095 no chassis manufacturer should be able to sell anything less...

[fastford]

I have heard of several DoCol cars roll cage ripping apart at the weld. but they are trying to use .83-.65 thickness in the cages.... suicide if you ask me.

I think in the name of safety that all latemodel and modified chassis should have a rule of a 1 3/4 .095 material rule.
don't care if it is Moly/DoCol/Dom. All Hoops and Halos in the main rollcage cage structure connecting to the main framerails should be that size and thickness. After that, do whatever you want to.

just the thoughts from a guy who does drive....and has a family.

I agree with that , dont think you will get by with "after that , do what ever you want to" , but sounds good to me..........

[JustAddDirt]

I agree with that , dont think you will get by with "after that , do what ever you want to" , but sounds good to me..........

What I meant by that is built within the rules, like what a current chassis would be, but tube thickness on remained of the car is not mandated.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

Forgive me if I've misunderstood the story, or if my sources are wrong, but I have heard that way back in the days of the throw away cars, the 1200 lb late models, that drivers would use very thin tubing, that had the appearance of roll cages, but was not very safe at all, and wouldn't hold up in a crash at all.

[hucktyson]

Your source was a heroin addict if he was telling you about 1200lb late models

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

Forgive me if I've misunderstood the story, or if my sources are wrong, but I have heard that way back in the days of the throw away cars, the 1200 lb late models, that drivers would use very thin tubing, that had the appearance of roll cages, but was not very safe at all, and wouldn't hold up in a crash at all.

1800# is the lightest I have ever heard of.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

1800# is the lightest I have ever heard of.

Oh ok. Like I said. I was young and either misunderstood the story, or was misinformed. Thank you for the correction without being a rude jerk like the other guy who commented.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Oh ok. Like I said. I was young and either misunderstood the story, or was misinformed. Thank you for the correction without being a rude jerk like the other guy who commented.The other guy cannot help himself, he’s perfect, just ask him.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Forgive me if I've misunderstood the story, or if my sources are wrong, but I have heard that way back in the days of the throw away cars, the 1200 lb late models, that drivers would use very thin tubing, that had the appearance of roll cages, but was not very safe at all, and wouldn't hold up in a crash at all.

I've heard of weights around 1600 Lb. but not 1200. Those cars would not last very long even if they did not get damaged from crashes. The A frames were very flimsy also. This was around 1980 or 1981 best I remember.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

My dad specifically mentioned Eddie Carrier at Tazewell in a very light weight, presumably now in the 1600-1800 lb range. He said everybody was laughing at the car, cause it looked so flimsy. Dad said he lapped the field. This was probably in the late 70's to early 80s.

[billetbirdcage]

I've heard of weights around 1600 Lb. but not 1200. Those car would not last very long even if they did not get damaged from crashes. The A frames were very flimsy also. This was around 1980 or 1981 best I remember.

We had a 2120# LM in 2011 with a steel block SAS engine and a 160# driver. The engine had a lightened steel block with really light internals and only weighted 32# more then our open engine. So minus the 32# and lets say a guy went with a wet sump and saved another 50# there which is generous, I don't see it possible to hit anywhere close to that unless you not including the driver.

The frame weighted 274# without bumpers even subtracting the entire frame your right at 1604 with no frame or driver, lol.

[CageFaraday]

Forgive me if I've misunderstood the story, or if my sources are wrong, but I have heard that way back in the days of the throw away cars, the 1200 lb late models, that drivers would use very thin tubing, that had the appearance of roll cages, but was not very safe at all, and wouldn't hold up in a crash at all.

I've heard of a few made from exhaust tubing. Jack Pennington had one that was crazy thin/lite, that's where his limp came from...

[BloomerHarvickFan]

I've heard of a few made from exhaust tubing. Jack Pennington had one that was crazy thin/lite, that's where his limp came from...

Yeah, exhaust tubing. That sounds familiar. That may have been what dad was talking about. It's been years since we had the discussion. I just remember he saying that the tubing was essentially just for show, and wouldn't do much good in a crash.

[Hoodrat1]

If I’m not mistaken revelution race cars out of Richmond ky. Built a few late models with docol a few years back. I believe he had posted something about it on his Facebook page.

[CageFaraday]

DOCUL R8 looks interesting to me, similar strength to 4130 but less brittle, more like DOM and no special prep of tubing required or heat treating. Win-Win.

[Bubstr]

It seems strange, that this is sold in the US, with out identifying numbers. Those 4 digit numbers, (like 4130) tell you exactly what is in the steel and can be cross referenced to find strength properties. It's been a long time since I fabricated anything, but I'm not sure that less brittle and strong as would be any comfort, where safety is concerned. Some suppliers offered a 4130 N, which is 4130 that has been heat treated to make it less brittle and improve welding properties. I used to dabble in Sprint and Midget frame repair. Heat control while welding is the part that will weaken a repair.

I believe I posted this before, maybe not in this section,but CM steel came out in the early 40s for aviation. F1 picked right up on it. The recommended way of fasening tube was braising. Yes Brass. This may have been the best since. Aviation went to ox-acettline welding and is still approved by the FAA. For NHRA you must TIG weld it. It doesn't know how you weld it, but it does know about your heat control. That is why it cracks or breaks by a joint. The guys that try to normalize by heating, usually don't know, it must be brought up evenly to 2000 degrees and very slowly cooled over a 24 hour time. The best bet is TIG keeping just hot enough to get penetration. Some will wrap joint in asbestos wrap to cool slowly. I'm not sure this helps at all. There is a little history on CM welding. BTW, some of those 50s F1 cars are still holding together. Some of those 40s airplanes too.

One more thing CM weighs the same as any steel. You have to go thinner and or larger diameter, to drop weight and keep strength.

[Clayton_Wetter]

My dad specifically mentioned Eddie Carrier at Tazewell in a very light weight, presumably now in the 1600-1800 lb range. He said everybody was laughing at the car, cause it looked so flimsy. Dad said he lapped the field. This was probably in the late 70's to early 80s.

I remember him and that car most likely, it was very fast. Won races at Ponderosa often.

[Clayton_Wetter]

It seems strange, that this is sold in the US, with out identifying numbers. Those 4 digit numbers, (like 4130) tell you exactly what is in the steel and can be cross referenced to find strength properties. It's been a long time since I fabricated anything, but I'm not sure that less brittle and strong as would be any comfort, where safety is concerned. Some suppliers offered a 4130 N, which is 4130 that has been heat treated to make it less brittle and improve welding properties. I used to dabble in Sprint and Midget frame repair. Heat control while welding is the part that will weaken a repair.

I believe I posted this before, maybe not in this section,but CM steel came out in the early 40s for aviation. F1 picked right up on it. The recommended way of fasening tube was braising. Yes Brass. This may have been the best since. Aviation went to ox-acettline welding and is still approved by the FAA. For NHRA you must TIG weld it. It doesn't know how you weld it, but it does know about your heat control. That is why it cracks or breaks by a joint. The guys that try to normalize by heating, usually don't know, it must be brought up evenly to 2000 degrees and very slowly cooled over a 24 hour time. The best bet is TIG keeping just hot enough to get penetration. Some will wrap joint in asbestos wrap to cool slowly. I'm not sure this helps at all. There is a little history on CM welding. BTW, some of those 50s F1 cars are still holding together. Some of those 40s airplanes too.

One more thing CM weighs the same as any steel. You have to go thinner and or larger diameter, to drop weight and keep strength.

Steelgrade
Product Type

Docol CR​950Y​1200T​-MS



Docol HR​900Y​1180T​-MS

The CR stands for cold rolled and the HR stands for hot rolled

I used to work in a machine shop and ordered many alloys and grades of metals.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

It seems strange, that this is sold in the US, with out identifying numbers. Those 4 digit numbers, (like 4130) tell you exactly what is in the steel and can be cross referenced to find strength properties. It's been a long time since I fabricated anything, but I'm not sure that less brittle and strong as would be any comfort, where safety is concerned. Some suppliers offered a 4130 N, which is 4130 that has been heat treated to make it less brittle and improve welding properties. I used to dabble in Sprint and Midget frame repair. Heat control while welding is the part that will weaken a repair.

I believe I posted this before, maybe not in this section,but CM steel came out in the early 40s for aviation. F1 picked right up on it. The recommended way of fasening tube was braising. Yes Brass. This may have been the best since. Aviation went to ox-acettline welding and is still approved by the FAA. For NHRA you must TIG weld it. It doesn't know how you weld it, but it does know about your heat control. That is why it cracks or breaks by a joint. The guys that try to normalize by heating, usually don't know, it must be brought up evenly to 2000 degrees and very slowly cooled over a 24 hour time. The best bet is TIG keeping just hot enough to get penetration. Some will wrap joint in asbestos wrap to cool slowly. I'm not sure this helps at all. There is a little history on CM welding. BTW, some of those 50s F1 cars are still holding together. Some of those 40s airplanes too.

One more thing CM weighs the same as any steel. You have to go thinner and or larger diameter, to drop weight and keep strength.

Right on with the last couple sentences. Only problem is the cage of a car should be designed for strength. The rest for stiffness. Sacrificing material sacrifices stiffness as the modulus of elasticity is essentially the same.