Lucas won't allow c.miller to race

[Team_Williams]

The show at east bay tonight will not allow carder miller age 13 to race. Although he has raced earlier this week. What a beautiful way to turn fans away.

[SFrancisFan15]

yeah thats just weird they let him race and all of sudden he cant... hmmm definitely not a good look

[SLIDING SIDEWAYS]

Thats like taking cotton candy from a kid.....wait he is a kid.

[MI Dirt Fan]

How old was Michael Lake? 15?

[TDRacin®]

Any reason given?

[dirtcrazy4u]

Yea there's more to that story. Ok to race 1 night then not the next ? I'll go with it being a insurance issue, can't believe it was for any other reason.

[SFrancisFan15]

We had a Kid here at my home track racing when he was 12. Also better then a lot of regulars and signed a waver and was just fine.

[Team_Williams]

It is insurance deal. I would demand my money back or be on the cell finding a lawyer.

[DirtRaceJunky]

Team_Williams Team_Williams is online nowJunior MemberJoin DateNov 2009Posts5DefaultIt is insurance deal. I would demand my money back or be on the cell finding a lawyer.___________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __While your at it, why don't you just kill auto racing all together with the lawyer. That is NOT what racing needs. EVER!!!!!!!

[Highside Hustler25]

I wouldn't strap my kid in a super late at 13 years old but that's just me. I'm sure others see it differently.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I wouldn't strap my kid in a super late at 13 years old but that's just me. I'm sure others see it differently.

Let alone against some of the talent and experience that are there right now.

[Illtsate32]

What is the deal with people wanting to call lawyers and cops evertime you turn around smh...

[plunks7]

The moral of the story don't turn around.

[race14]

That sux he raced with them for the last 3 days and made the show at least 1 night, have the previous nights been Lucas or just tonight and tomorrow ?

[dalemcfan]

He competed in the two Lucas events at Golden Isles last weekend too.

[1youngblood]

He ran supers all last year. Won the Shaffer’s oil series championship. Ran the world finals at Charlotte. He’s not average 13 year old. He been driving late models since he was ten. And won a local track steel block championship at 11 or 12

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I definitely agree he is not the average young teenager, he’s pretty good. Raced quite a bit. But, if they finally got an answer from their insurance that says no, then is what it is.

[TerryM]

How about we wait until we get the facts before making any judgements?

[DEKconsulting]

its a wonder they just would let him sign a waiver releasing all responsibility from lucas oil or track id hate to see all the other series take suit cause that would suck

[TackyTracker]

not sure I'd like being told it's an insurance thing when I was already allowed to pull through gate and race..

[Mams]

All it says on DOD is that he is sitting out tonight's race. No reason given.

[zyoung25]

I haven't seen the kid in person, but i thought he handled the car very well from what I have seen. Look at the pressure he around him the other night when Overton and Jd racing around him for the lead. He held his line and stayed out of the way.

13 is a lil young to be wheeling one of these cars, but he's not your average 13 year old I dont think. Kinda weird they let him run all the way up until now though.

[billetbirdcage]

May be a simple as they have an age requirement and he really doesn't look 13 to me (looks older if I was to have to guess) so he may have never been asked about age and after they been saying he was 13 on the telecast, the track found out he's younger then they thought.

[huskerdirt]

It was Eastbay that didn’t allow Carder to race, not Lucas.

[Hovlane]

I'm calling my attorney! The adult version of "I'm telling my mom"

[Illtsate32]

May be a simple as they have an age requirement and he really doesn't look 13 to me (looks older if I was to have to guess) so he may have never been asked about age and after they been saying he was 13 on the telecast, the track found out he's younger then they thought.Ya hes a decent sized kid he could pass for 16-17 easy...

[MI Dirt Fan]

I think WoO requires anyone 13 and under to fill out a youthful participation certificate 7 days prior to competing. Does Lucas have anything like that?

[huskerdirt]

I think WoO requires anyone 13 and under to fill out a youthful participation certificate 7 days prior to competing. Does Lucas have anything like that?

I didn’t see anything in the rule book.

Lucas said Carder was welcomed anytime to race with them as long as it didn’t conflict with the tracks insurance policy.

I wanna say Red(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) was 14 when he raced with Lucas.

[bleedblue55]

That would be correct. Heard this as soon as I arrived at the track today.

[Doc88D]

The track insurance was tipped off. They contacted the track and said no. The policy is that drivers have to be legal age to drive. It is not a Lucas Oil issue. It is an Eastbay Insurance issue...

[Dlmfan123]

They only said he’s 13 about 1000 times on the lucas broadcast

[golddirt]

At a lot of tracks you have to be 16 do to insurance

[smith19]

he11 Redd1ck was in a sprintcar at the age of 12. Gordon 13...

[Centeroff]

Read the rule book

[Minny Lakes]

I always find this topic interesting. A lot of these younger kids are better drivers and have a lot more common sensethan middle aged guys who do dumb crap that you think would know better. Let the kids race.

[EvelB7]

I want to add one thought to this subject, realize it is not about the ability but the age. This is a profession and can be extremely dangerous as well as bringing tempers to a boil. How many times have we watched drivers retaliate after an incident? Imagine a driver gives a cheap slider on you and you return the favor and it goes wrong, might have been his choice to be there but I would not want to try and sleep at night if I hurt a 13 year old.... I have ran with some very talented young racers (luckily no issues) but it was always a thought when they were around.

[Krooser]

The track sets the age for entry to the pits and the drivers age. Their insurance rates are based on their rules, facilities and types of cars run.

Young drivers? You pay more. 4 year olds in the pits? Might be more. Sprints? Pay more. Super late? You pay more. Real street stocks, IMCA b-mods, IMCA stock cars? Cheaper.

Broken boards in the grandstands? Fix 'em or pay more. No wheel catch fence? Up it goes. No safety crew on-site? Open your wallet. No ambulance on site? Up, up up...

Back in 2013 I set my pit entrance age at 14 and my drivers age at 16. My choice... I could have allowed a one year old to race and K&K would have based the rate accordingly. That's how it works.

The insurance industry learned that if THEY set the rules then they have a stake in the liability. When they write a policy the track is the insured. If THEY set the rules the track will be sued AND the insurance carrier will be sued... so the tracks makes their own rules and the insurance company bases their rates on an individual basis.

I paid $1800.00 per night back in the late 80's for my liability insurance and my drivers medical coverage... that was high for a 1/3 mile with early IMCA mods as the top class. But my participant insurance covered around $50,000 for medical expense resulting from an incident at the track. Most tracks had a $5,000 limit.

When I got back in the business in 2013 those rates had dropped to about $800.00 for my street stock and 4 cylinder program.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I want to add one thought to this subject, realize it is not about the ability but the age. This is a profession and can be extremely dangerous as well as bringing tempers to a boil. How many times have we watched drivers retaliate after an incident? Imagine a driver gives a cheap slider on you and you return the favor and it goes wrong, might have been his choice to be there but I would not want to try and sleep at night if I hurt a 13 year old.... I have ran with some very talented young racers (luckily no issues) but it was always a thought when they were around.Deeply shocked, but nice post new poster. Usually it’s a new name of someone banned, but nice post man. By no means am I saying you’re one of them, you seem like a new poster with fresh thoughts.

[TerryM]

I want to add one thought to this subject, realize it is not about the ability but the age. This is a profession and can be extremely dangerous as well as bringing tempers to a boil. How many times have we watched drivers retaliate after an incident? Imagine a driver gives a cheap slider on you and you return the favor and it goes wrong, might have been his choice to be there but I would not want to try and sleep at night if I hurt a 13 year old.... I have ran with some very talented young racers (luckily no issues) but it was always a thought when they were around.
Good points. We were at GIS last weekend and if I hadn't already known this kid's age, I wouldn't have been able to tell he was any different age-wise than the other guys on the track. I didn't see a single mistake by him, and I watched him a lot. But I also get what you're saying. I'd have a hard time forgetting I'm racing next to a 13-year old if I was in that position. On the other hand, we see kids like Red(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word), Pierce and O'Neal racing at a similar age and they're not only making laps, but running up front. So I guess there's a blurry line when it comes to the age limit thing. As a father, I see it one way. As a fan, I see the other side of it. I'm sure the bottom line though is insurance and liability. Better safe than sorry.

[GEAR_HEAD]

The track insurance was tipped off. They contacted the track and said no. The policy is that drivers have to be legal age to drive. It is not a Lucas Oil issue. It is an Eastbay Insurance issue...

Who would tip off the insurance company? People really need to mind their own business. It's not like the kid is out there causing problems.

[No_Weak_Links]

Can't blame the track if insurance company says no. If something went terribly wrong, the owner(s) would be buried....but if I were them I would search around for different insurance.....This does make you wonder with young kids driving at tracks all over the country, do these other insurance companies know there are many kids under 16 participating? I do hope all these kids and owners are covered.

[super_latemodel_fan]

Who would tip off the insurance company? People really need to mind their own business. It's not like the kid is out there causing problems.

Refer to post 31

[heinen81]

Smart call by the insurance company and props to Lucas and East Bay for abiding. The kid is good, plenty of time to show it as he gets older, but.... it is a dangerous sport and God forbid he gets hurt or worse, something like this lands up on Dateline (especially since the whole child football concussion discussion) and all the other news shows, and it draws a huge negative light on the sport. Lawyers get involved, parents get called out for putting their child at risk... it gets ugly. Media would eat this up, and who steps in next.... Government. Think about the big picture people, its bigger than if the kid can drive or not.

[golddirt]

And if something did happen to this young man how would this thread be going ? Everyone would being saying that they shouldn't have let him race. Rules are rules.

[CageFaraday]

In my area growing up it was always that the driver had to have a legal drivers license to compete. Frank Ingram(Son of Bill Ingram) started racing hobby cars at Dixie when he was 15, by lying and saying he was 16. Lasted about 6 weeks. Once the track was clued in and asked to see his license, he had to stop running till his birthday. No stink was made, no lawyers called, he just owned up to it and waited. I'm not in favor of children racing cars at all till they are of the legal age to drive, besides there are plenty of "Kid ONLY" classes they can hone their racing skills doing outside DLM. To me its less about ability to handle the car, which is important, but more about judgement, maturity and handling ones emotions in a given situation. That Michael Lake kid last year had an incident where he got ruffled and booted I believe it was Dennis Erb Jr last year at the Bay. Mentioning older guys acting childish, I 'm in favor of them reigning that in too, no excuse for some of the bahavior that goes on and misrepresented as, 'Passion". NOT. JMO

[smoothoperator32]

http://www.ebrp.co/general-rules/

46- All drivers must be 16 years old to race in any division other than Street Stock, Outlaw 4 or 4 Cylinder Bomber. 14 years old is the minimum age for those 3 classes.


48- Anyone involved in litigation against East Bay Raceway Park will not be allowed to participate in or attend any event on East Bay Raceway Park property.

[Kwd1253]

This how I view it, saying he is to young drive a slm? Nope, if he understands the responsibilities and danger of it, go for it. I would let my kid race if he showed he knows the responsibilities of it. Also it’s only making him more knowledgeable and better about racing running against the best in the Country.

Him not Being able to race, well it’s ebrp rules of what age you can race there.

How was he able to race before they said no he can’t race. Maybe EB didn’t look far into his age or maybe they was going let it slide until dod blasted his true age. I didn’t know his age until they said it. They might had do that to cover themselves. Insurance hears about, other people that have kids that can’t race there start protesting about it. or someone don’t think teenagers shouldnt be racing sdl starts making a big deal out of it. There countless reason why they had pull the plug letting him keep race.

If I was millers I would make sure I can race where the track rules let him in the future.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Usually when it comes to insurance companies. Whether your experienced or not. But you aren't old enough. They have the final say regardless. I don't think East Bay wants to risk it.

I don't know how it works but maybe they were told he either doesn't race or we pull your insurance and that could possibly result in not being able to hold the rest of the weeks events.

[MRM]

http://www.ebrp.co/general-rules/

46- All drivers must be 16 years old to race in any division other than Street Stock, Outlaw 4 or 4 Cylinder Bomber. 14 years old is the minimum age for those 3 classes.


48- Anyone involved in litigation against East Bay Raceway Park will not be allowed to participate in or attend any event on East Bay Raceway Park property.

Wonder when that went into effect or has it always been that way? I'm pretty sure Tyler Red(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) raced a SLM there and he was not 16 yet.

[Kwd1253]

Wonder when that went into effect or has it always been that way? I'm pretty sure Tyler Red(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) raced a SLM there and he was not 16 yet.

Tyler just turn 13 when he first ran slm at EB, think he still the youngest to ever win during speedweeks at 16. Maybe age rule changed after he won at EB when he won??

[Illtsate32]

I think they might of not known his exact age and if they did maybe was gna turn the other cheek but the exposure on lucas oil tv and the track caught too much attention...which sucks for Carder this weekend but overall I think the exposure was a real good thing for him..he wasnt blazing fast but for 13 he may have caught somebodys attention...I know I was impressed...

[jr29]

This seems like an issue that should have been worked out before this young man and his team headed for Florida.

[Josh Bayko]

This is much ado about nothing, in all honesty. I think they tried to get one over on EB, and got caught.

[zach51]

They weren't counting on him running good enough for anybody to notice I suppose. He looks 5x better than McCreadie.

[Krooser]

Usually when it comes to insurance companies. Whether your experienced or not. But you aren't old enough. They have the final say regardless. I don't think East Bay wants to risk it.

I don't know how it works but maybe they were told he either doesn't race or we pull your insurance and that could possibly result in not being able to hold the rest of the weeks events.

See post #37... I've been there.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

Count me among those who feel like you should be legally allowed to drive on the road to be able to race full bodied race cars. They have go-karts, and legends cars, and other less powerful, less dangerous forms of motorsports for kids.
It's not necessarily a talent issue, but a maturity issue.

[blncfn57]

Maybe the Millers were presented with a choice whether to sign off liability or not race and they chose to not race. IDK if that was the case, just a thought

[luke81]

East Bay has forever been 16+ except certain classes, but there's a lot of "don't ask don't tell" too. I raced mini sprints at east bay with 13 and 14 year olds many times. But the exposure was too big with a Lucas series.

[turnleftandgasit]

Justin Allgaier used to race at Farmer City in a LM, but wasn't allowed to race at Fairbury due to insurance.

[Dirtfan04]

Smart call by the insurance company and props to Lucas and East Bay for abiding. The kid is good, plenty of time to show it as he gets older, but.... it is a dangerous sport and God forbid he gets hurt or worse, something like this lands up on Dateline (especially since the whole child football concussion discussion) and all the other news shows, and it draws a huge negative light on the sport. Lawyers get involved, parents get called out for putting their child at risk... it gets ugly. Media would eat this up, and who steps in next.... Government. Think about the big picture people, its bigger than if the kid can drive or not.

That is the most intelligent post on this whole thread. People need to realize that it is an entirely different world that we live in (and race in) today than even just a few years ago. Just becaues others were allowed to "do it in the past" doesn't mean that it is the same now. We already have the tree huggers and extreme left wanting to ban all forms of motorsports for their "negative environmental impact". Can you imagine the impact and the ammunition they would have if, god forbid, something happened to this 13 year old and the national media got hold of it. It would be the end of our sport as we know it and maybe the end of it all together. Look how everyone is attacking all the contact sports now. We are the rare sport that would draw the ire of both, people who are after contact sports and environmentalists. Is it a tough pill to swallow for the kid? Sure it is. But, he has a bright future and will be able to participate in a few years and hopefully the sport will still be here. Sometimes we just have to realize that there are other factors involved with much greater impact in the long run instead of wanting to light a fire and sue the world because one individual was not allowed to race in a seemingly unfair move. I also, agree that the last thing we ever want is the government or the legal system involved in our sport.

[Barbecueboy]

Kinda hard to believe anyone " in the know " about dlm racing didn't know how young he was......especially someone like Lucas or ebrp that do this stuff for a living.

I agree with the poster that said they should have told them no before they loaded up and headed to Florida.......

[dirty bert]

I've seen some 13 14 year olds race better than some guy's been doing it 20 30 year's, what worries me an we've all seen this happen the kid gets in a wreck might be his fault might not but another driver gets out smacks the hell out of him,in the heat of the moment not realizing who it is.Then what do we do

[EvelB7]

Thanks, not a new user just haven't commented in years and forgot old user info. I started racing karts as a kid, switched to late models when I was 16 (would have sooner if allowed) and have drove them up until this year (48 years old). Some very talented kids (way more talented than I am) but have grown to think they need to at least wait until they have matured before putting them in the high pressure arena of late models.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Must be a different rule at Ocala because Bubba Klemms 15 yr old is racing a LM tonight

[wfofan]

Money 💰 Talks...
That's Why some can and some can't...
Like everything in America...
Place is Great, If you can afford your dreams!!!

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Must be a different rule at Ocala because Bubba Klemms 15 yr old is racing a LM tonightObviously it was an East Bay Rule then, not a Lucas one. Tyler has been racing since he was 10 or 11 I think.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Money  Talks...
That's Why some can and some can't...
Like everything in America...
Place is Great, If you can afford your dreams!!!They are at a different track, so it was East Bays rule, not Lucas.

[huskerdirt]

Must be a different rule at Ocala because Bubba Klemms 15 yr old is racing a LM tonight

Yes, genius. We already established it was an East bay rule. Not a lucas rule.

[wfofan]

Redd!ck raced everywhere he went, age never mattered because of grandpa...
America is a Great place, if you can afford your dreams...

[MI Dirt Fan]

Yes, genius. We already established it was an East bay rule. Not a lucas rule.

I wasn't concluding it was a Lucas rule or East Bay rule.

Why so bitter all the time... Just because your mad at the world doesn't mean you need to bring it here.

[Josh Bayko]

Redd!ck raced everywhere he went, age never mattered because of grandpa...
America is a Great place, if you can afford your dreams...

Tyler didn’t race Eldora until he was old enough. You should probably stop talking.

[plunks7]

If memory serves me right. I don't think he (Tyler) was able to run Knoxville either.

[TMaCiLLiNi39]

If memory serves me right. I don't think he (Tyler) was able to run Knoxville either.

We were allowed to race Knoxville... but during the first night, ol man Cappi came down and told Tyler’s dad he wasn’t allowed to race after Thursday night because you had to be 16... Tyler was 15... it didn’t matter though as Tyler blew his engine in the B and we didn’t have a spare in the trailer... not like we would have changed em out if we did. Tyler struggled that year there in the Rocket. Then came back the following year and finished top 5

[Barbecueboy]

I wasn't concluding it was a Lucas rule or East Bay rule.

Why so bitter all the time... Just because your mad at the world doesn't mean you need to bring it here.

Maybe it was the thread title that was confusing..........Lucas won't allow c Miller to race.

If all I did was watch races from a computer screen in Nebraska ,I'd be mad at the world too.fwiw.

[huskerdirt]

I wasn't concluding it was a Lucas rule or East Bay rule.

Why so bitter all the time... Just because your mad at the world doesn't mean you need to bring it here.

I’m not bitter, if you read the posts before yours. You would’ve known it was an Eastbay rule.

[Barbecueboy]

Brilliant.........