Soften fith coil up

[hunterracing]

What affects would soften fith coil up 25 to 50 lbs but keeping it same hole on the lift arm. Could gain little more traction from center off?

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

What affects would soften fith coil up 25 to 50 lbs but keeping it same hole on the lift arm. Could gain little more traction from center off?

I find loss of instant traction when I go softer on rate. If driver is a throttle masher, softer can help keep tires from shocking loose.

[hunterracing]

I’m not throttle smasher pretty easy into the gas. We’re on 325 just thought ask

[billetbirdcage]

As said

5th coil spring rate:

1. Stiffer is faster to get traction
2. Softer is slower to get traction

As said stiffer can loose traction easier, but generally you have to be a real throttle smasher to notice this and usually doesn't apply to a decent driver.


Side note* The more the 5th moves the more the rear end will shift right under throttle. The more rake in the J-bar the more this is magnified, so how noticeable it is can be somewhat dependent on J-bar to a degree.

[hunterracing]

So might be best bet to keep same rate and maybe slide it back one on rearend

[Matt49]

With the trend of trying to keep the nose down even when on the gas, I would think most folks are looking at moving the 5th coil back to change the lift point and adjusting the spring rate (stiffer) to match the throttle feel they want. This is very much a driver feel thing. But then we could get into all kinds of debate about progressive spring versus air dump stuff which are pretty much opposite approaches but you'll have people that swear by one or the other.

[hunterracing]

How bout when you tie lf up from dropping so much do you need stiffen rr to compensate so it don’t wheelie when you lower rs bars

[Kromulous]

More leftside percent, or heavy LF components?

I see a lot Touring guys run this stuff, and some struggle (Pierce). Bloomquist IMHO is all over this, and he even runs a LF tire that looks like donut (portable spare) all in an effort to get a bunch of wedge in the car so it will turn in. Then you see a bunch of the cars go way tight when the tires come in, and get hot, Richards and Bloomquist both lost races due to this.

I guess its a combo of LS percent and heavy LF components to keep the tire down.

[Matt49]

Obviously there was a trend that started a while back (and is still going) to get the RF down as much as possible and the LR up as much as possible. So if you leave those two alone and you want the LF to go down, the RR must come up to do it. I'm pretty sure there are some really stiff RR setups out there winning big races right now but I could be way off. And I don't necessarily mean just a stiff RR spring.

[hunterracing]

What bout the limiting strap on the lf keeping the aframe same angle at ride height and dyanmaic state

[a25rjr]

Obviously there was a trend that started a while back (and is still going) to get the RF down as much as possible and the LR up as much as possible. So if you leave those two alone and you want the LF to go down, the RR must come up to do it. I'm pretty sure there are some really stiff RR setups out there winning big races right now but I could be way off. And I don't necessarily mean just a stiff RR spring.

There was a certain car several years ago, that won a lot of races with the RR hiked up just like the LR! Im surprised it isn't more common!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

There was a certain car several years ago, that won a lot of races with the RR hiked up just like the LR! Im surprised it isn't more common!

I have had success with that, but it has to hurt entry some.

[TheJet-09]

Does anyone think a shorter lift arm can be more sensitive to spring rate changes?

I've moved mine back to 33" (was at 37"), and with a 350# spring it was real responsive when the track still had some traction. But I felt like it was easily blowing the tires off in the slick, so I softened it to a 325#. After doing so, it didn't quite have the same responsiveness in the mud, but felt better in the slick.

In addition, would there be any advantage to moving the 6th coil back as well, to maintain its distance in front of the 5th coil to around 4" or so?

[fastford]

if we move the shock back and soften the spring as well , we usually increase the shocks compression to slow the reaction a bit........

[sidewinder69]

wouldnt limiting the lf droop make the lr drive harder and quicker but hurt overall steer capability?

[hunterracing]

I just wonder if it makes it wheelie more. Or if you gotta stiffen rr spring or run more rr top bar angle compensate

[cjsracing]

I just wonder if it makes it wheelie more. Or if you gotta stiffen rr spring or run more rr top bar angle compensate

I am curious about that as well. Ever since I started limiting the LF my RR is getting really hot when it's slick. WRS2 tires and I blistered one in a 20 lap feature a couple weeks ago.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I am curious about that as well. Ever since I started limiting the LF my RR is getting really hot when it's slick. WRS2 tires and I blistered one in a 20 lap feature a couple weeks ago.

Your RR is gaining less load from lateral weight transfer. Some of the load is going to the LR instead. The is the point of the low/zero droop setup.

[Kromulous]

I would work with your droop numbers, add or subtract a little at a time to get the feel you want.

[cjsracing]

Your RR is gaining less load from lateral weight transfer. Some of the load is going to the LR instead. The is the point of the low/zero droop setup.

So because of the less load from lateral weight transfer should I be starting with a higher load number on the RR then?

I had my LF limited at a 1/4" from ride height but for this weekend I changed it to 1" from full extension (I've had better luck with this in the past).

I'm taking my car to our local guru next week so hopefully they can get things going the right direction because now the car feels like it is on top of the track instead of digging into it.

[Kromulous]

We had similar results with the LF limited, i think its a big adjustment a lot of influence on the car as a whole, and should take no more than 1/4" swings at a time on changes, maybe a 1/2". While limited the car would want to skate on the RR, especially on entry, but it would come off the corner well. So just saying that out loud would tend to think its better on a heavier track to get the car free'd up and turning.

My questions are, how much wedge and left side % do i need to make this optimum. Also how much tie down (rebound) on the LF shock do i need. Plus the overall droop numbers. That's what i plan to look at adjustment wise this year.

[MBR Performance]

No need to increase the static load. The dynamic load is what you need to increase. Add spring rubbers to the RR to achieve that. Start with one and work up from there

[cjsracing]

No need to increase the static load. The dynamic load is what you need to increase. Add spring rubbers to the RR to achieve that. Start with one and work up from there

Thanks for the info. The problem is that our rules don't allow spring rubbers, so I'd have to increase static load in order to increase dynamic load.

[Matt49]

There are countless ways to change dynamic loading of the RR without changing static loading and spring rubbers are just one.
Raise the fuel cell (or any other ballast) is the crudest example.
Lower the bottom right bar on the frame
Soften the compression of the RR shock
Lower the j-bar
Run less air pressure
I could go on and on and on...

And these rule makers are idiots. If it were me, and the rule literally said "no spring rubbers", I would run polyurethane items and tell them it isn't against the rules because it isn't "rubber"...tell them to straighten their rule book out. Dumbest thing I ever heard of...outlawing $10 components just because they don't understand it and think there is some voodoo there. I digress....

[MBR Performance]

Are you allowed to run bump stops?

[fastford]

There are countless ways to change dynamic loading of the RR without changing static loading and spring rubbers are just one.
Raise the fuel cell (or any other ballast) is the crudest example.
Lower the bottom right bar on the frame
Soften the compression of the RR shock
Lower the j-bar
Run less air pressure
I could go on and on and on...

And these rule makers are idiots. If it were me, and the rule literally said "no spring rubbers", I would run polyurethane items and tell them it isn't against the rules because it isn't "rubber"...tell them to straighten their rule book out. Dumbest thing I ever heard of...outlawing $10 components just because they don't understand it and think there is some voodoo there. I digress....

I never understood that either , ban something cheap just because every one dont no how to use it , but allow 10,000 $ shocks that few can afford.....

[cjsracing]

Are you allowed to run bump stops?

No. No spring rubbers, bump stops or stacked springs. Their rationale is that they don't want people spending money on spring smashers even though if you want help from a major chassis builder you will probably need one anyway.

[Len72P]

MasterS. What do you mean by (low/zero droop)

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

MasterS. What do you mean by (low/zero droop)

Droop is the wheel travelling down from ride height. No droop is tethering the wheel so it can't come down. It makes unsprung weight become sprung at a point in time. The idea comes from road course racing.