Amen Ben Shelton !!!

[fryefan]

http://www.onedirt.com/features/editorials-opinions/race-track-time-management-death-sport/

[fryefan]

I would like to mention a couple of promoters off the top of my head (Bob Sargeant and Mike Van Gendren) that are well aware of this and are noted for fast, efficient programs.

A lot of promoters could learn a lot by going to one of their shows and taking notes.

[PushinDad]

With so many classes, why would any track need an intermission longer than 10 minutes for officials to take a restroom break!?!

[MI Dirt Fan]

"How many times have you sat at a random track and observed a car stalled in turn one that needs the hook? After a few minutes the wrecker driver finally returns to the real world and jumps in his truck, only to find that it won’t crank. Another ten minutes is spent boosting the wrecker, and then after a meet-and-greet with the racer, he finally tows the car back to the pits. A mere 15 minutes after the car simply stopped on the track, action can finally resume."

I've been to alot of tracks and have never seen that before. Little bit of exaggerating if your asking me.

[TTS_JF]

I agree with Ben and I'm a 40-50 race a year guy, so you can imagine the casual fan goes 1-2 times a year and the race is drug out through the night.

This makes me think about the free night in dirt Florence had a couple weeks ago. I would love to know how many of those people return to the track again this year. The place was slammed with families, kids, etc.

[Bigdirtfan]

I have been saying this on this 4m ever since i started posting again a couple years ago. The problem is ignorant people put up with poor race management because its their local track. I try to only go to tracks i trust, supporting poorly run tracks makes you a part of the problem.

[20fan]

Sounds like most michigan dirt tracks. Exactly why I dont attend them anymore. Eldora is the best at getting race restarted.

[hoosier race fan]

I have been saying this on this 4m ever since i started posting again a couple years ago. The problem is ignorant people put up with poor race management because its their local track. I try to only go to tracks i trust, supporting poorly run tracks makes you a part of the problem.
Agreed. Most of those poorly run tracks are the same ones that have promoters who complain that social media is killing their track. No. A bad promoter who, among other things, can’t run an efficient program is killing their track.

[dirt crow]

I wish I knew these tracks Ben was talking bout never attending again. Lol

[Hoosier]

I wish Ben would get behind a new rule: The featured class must be on the track by 9:30 or 10:00. The feature doesn't have to be the last race of the night.

[Ben Shelton]

I wish Ben would get behind a new rule: The featured class must be on the track by 9:30 or 10:00. The feature doesn't have to be the last race of the night.

I promote some events in the South. Any event that I work with has a standing rule that the headline class for that night will run their feature no later than second or at the most third.

If fans - who traveled in from out of town - would like to stay and see the balance of the show after the headline event, then that's great. If they want to get a jump on hitting the road home, I fully understand.

Fans should not be held hostage to see the main attraction. I learned a long time ago - from people who are much smarter than me - that the decision to stay until the final checkered flag of the night drops, should be left solely at the fan's discretion.

- Ben

[kazual]

Many promoters, race teams, and hard core fans love racing like no other thing in their life. And if promoters want to only appeal to that group then keep it up with the six hour programs. The article is absolutely 100% on target.

[LM1M]

I wish someone told Rice Lake Speedway in WI about this. 6 classes a few weeks ago and they run the late model feature last, was over after midnight. Families with kids were long gone and many others were too. Did i mention temp was in the 40s?

[Kromulous]

Puzzles me why people cant figure out Intermissions... Hot dog 100... You figure it out.

The whole show should be aimed to wrap up in about 3 hours max.

Some tracks like to run alot of classes to capitalize on the Pit Gate $$. Essentially the lower classes are paying the purses !!

[3 wide]

I agree I have been saying the same thing for years I have been going to dirt races for 50 years it has got so bad I really don't care anymore if I even go I tell you something else nobody talks about that hurts racing a lot of these tracks are bought for a tax write off they don't want them to make money.

[i like racing]

Most of the tracks in my area have a curfew. It varies from track to track but usually between 10:30-11. It usually keeps them from wasting too much time but there are exceptions. Overall though I would say that I am pretty fortunate with the tracks in my area being run pretty well for the most part

[GEAR_HEAD]

I wish Ben would get behind a new rule: The featured class must be on the track by 9:30 or 10:00. The feature doesn't have to be the last race of the night.

When BDS ran Tyler County they had a policy where the LM feature was always on the track by 9:30. I used to go there a lot more often back then than I do now. Every track should run the featured class first, especially for weekday shows.

[cjsracing]

I promote some events in the South. Any event that I work with has a standing rule that the headline class for that night will run their feature no later than second or at the most third.

If fans - who traveled in from out of town - would like to stay and see the balance of the show after the headline event, then that's great. If they want to get a jump on hitting the road home, I fully understand.

Fans should not be held hostage to see the main attraction. I learned a long time ago - from people who are much smarter than me - that the decision to stay until the final checkered flag of the night drops, should be left solely at the fan's discretion.

- Ben

I understand where you are coming from but it is my opinion that the headline class should be run last. Headline bands don't play before supporting bands, Headline fights (boxing, etc.) don't fight before the supporting fights, so why should racing be any different. If time is the issue and the night is running late then it is most likely an issue with to many support classes. As a late model driver it disappoints me when a track decides to not run us last (unless it is a special for a different class).

[Mason87]

My biggest problem is all the support classes, it sucks to see 6 or 7 classes running with maybe 10 cars in each class if your lucky.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Most of the tracks in my area have a curfew. It varies from track to track but usually between 10:30-11. It usually keeps them from wasting too much time but there are exceptions. Overall though I would say that I am pretty fortunate with the tracks in my area being run pretty well for the most part

I've seen those before. The LM class comes out, runs a fee warm up laps. Takes the green flag then 2 or 3 laps later they throw the checkered flag out and they call it a night.

[i like racing]

I've seen those before. The LM class comes out, runs a fee warm up laps. Takes the green flag then 2 or 3 laps later they throw the checkered flag out and they call it a night.

Usually if that is the case it is the 4 cylinders that is happening too as they are typically run last (not always though)

[brsteg]

I understand where you are coming from but it is my opinion that the headline class should be run last. Headline bands don't play before supporting bands, Headline fights (boxing, etc.) don't fight before the supporting fights, so why should racing be any different. If time is the issue and the night is running late then it is most likely an issue with to many support classes. As a late model driver it disappoints me when a track decides to not run us last (unless it is a special for a different class).

Racing isn't bands or fights or anything else. It should be different because it is. Majority of fans want headline class run first so they can decide if they stay or go.
After driving 2-3 hours or maybe more and sitting through 2 hours plus of prelims, folks are ready to see the main attraction before the support features. And it also sure makes it nicer leaving with part of the crowd is split on leaving after the big main or staying for some more support mains. Just overall better experience and more likely to come back the better the experience.

The Kentucky Derby is also not the last race of the day (I learned that this year), so we should stick with the horses and not make everyone stay till last.

[brsteg]

"How many times have you sat at a random track and observed a car stalled in turn one that needs the hook? After a few minutes the wrecker driver finally returns to the real world and jumps in his truck, only to find that it won’t crank. Another ten minutes is spent boosting the wrecker, and then after a meet-and-greet with the racer, he finally tows the car back to the pits. A mere 15 minutes after the car simply stopped on the track, action can finally resume."

I've been to alot of tracks and have never seen that before. Little bit of exaggerating if your asking me.

I have seen this... Ben puts it in an exaggerated way.. but I've seen this.

The whole article reminds me of every Southern track I've ever been to. Draw a line from Florence Speedway and anything south of that is probably going to be poorly time manages, qualify everything they have, and have 6-7 classes.

For some reason that's just how it is for a very large portion of the southern US. Doesn't mean there are a few good one's down south, or some bad ones up north... but I know what seems common in the hemispheres.

[Ben Shelton]

Sadly my "exaggerated way" of putting that is the completely truthful way that it happened at a track I was at, back in April.

I don't know that I couldn've made it up - nor would I have probably believed it - if I wasn't there to see it first hand. lol

Was both insanely comical and infuriating all at the same time.

- Ben

[brsteg]

Sadly my "exaggerated way" of putting that is the completely truthful way that it happened at a track I was at, back in April.

I don't know that I couldn've made it up - nor would I have probably believed it - if I wasn't there to see it first hand. lol

Was both insanely comical and infuriating all at the same time.

- Ben

And there is the rest of the story.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

I understand where you are coming from but it is my opinion that the headline class should be run last. Headline bands don't play before supporting bands, Headline fights (boxing, etc.) don't fight before the supporting fights, so why should racing be any different. If time is the issue and the night is running late then it is most likely an issue with to many support classes. As a late model driver it disappoints me when a track decides to not run us last (unless it is a special for a different class).No it should not. Now, should you rotate it some, sure, but the headline class should not be last. At a concert, we all know the order. And they don’t screw around like some of these tracks do.

When you try and take children to a race, and it gets past about 10-11, they are done, between being tired, and just plain old done. And I’m no different. Get the show moving and don’t screw around.

When I was 20 with not much of a care in the World, whatever, now, no. I got stuff to do tomorrow, besides not get home till 2.

[brsteg]

When I was 20 with not much of a care in the World, whatever, now, no. I got stuff to do tomorrow, besides not get home till 2.

Oh to be 20 again....

[billetbirdcage]

I understand where you are coming from but it is my opinion that the headline class should be run last. Headline bands don't play before supporting bands, Headline fights (boxing, etc.) don't fight before the supporting fights, so why should racing be any different. If time is the issue and the night is running late then it is most likely an issue with to many support classes. As a late model driver it disappoints me when a track decides to not run us last (unless it is a special for a different class).

I could agree with that somewhat if, the following was true:

1. They had the first 3 rounds of the HW championship boxing match then did all the under-card and then went back to do the last 7 rounds after.

2. If the band played their biggest hit first with one other song and then let all the support bands play for 2 hours, then finished the set with their other 4 hits and the rest of their songs

There's a reason most boxing, MMA or concerts are usually less then half full at start time because people can skip the first couple hours and not miss a single part of the main event unlike racing with Q/F'ing, heats and then feature.

I do still kind of prefer main class to run last, but not at the expense of having a 5 or 6 hour show, so I know where he's coming from

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Oh to be 20 again....Personally, 17-18. No bills, adult freedoms for the most part, no responsibilities. Man, be nice. But yeah, 20 too.:)

[fastford]

Sadly my "exaggerated way" of putting that is the completely truthful way that it happened at a track I was at, back in April.

I don't know that I couldn've made it up - nor would I have probably believed it - if I wasn't there to see it first hand. lol

Was both insanely comical and infuriating all at the same time.

- Ben

you must have been at TST , lol , thats really the only complaint i here at our track , the pitiful wreckers , some times they do provide some entertainment though . as for running the LM feature first , i like the way they run them usually 2nd , which gives the late models a little more time to prepare , I have never been to a race down here in the ole south where they ran supers last , must be a northern thing.......

[SHOE32]

That's why I love following Lucas Oil shows,they don't mess around. I drove 3hrs to go to 141 Lucas race and was back home at 1230 pm. And I watched the support races. Thank you Lucas officials.

[EvelB7]

You guys are correct on the south-I am going to a show Sunday that has 8 classes running.... Put on a show and get it over with, 3 hours should be the goal, any longer and the kids (as well as adults) lose interest. My wife would not even bring my kids to watch at certain tracks, she knew they would be sleeping before our feature would run.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

you must have been at TST , lol , thats really the only complaint i here at our track , the pitiful wreckers , some times they do provide some entertainment though . as for running the LM feature first , i like the way they run them usually 2nd , which gives the late models a little more time to prepare , I have never been to a race down here in the ole south where they ran supers last , must be a northern thing.......Think it was mentioned Rice Lake did it. Wisconsin.

[bananahammack00]

I think the problem with putting the "headliner" on the track by XX:XX time is not everyone has the same "headliner" in mind. I know this was posted in the Late Models, but a casual fan may not think of the Late Models as the headliners...maybe its the local high school kid running his compact or the local contractor wheeling a hobby car.The two biggest things I've noticed at my local tracks that seem to do a nice job running an efficient event: 1). One and done for causing a yellow flag in the heat race. 2). No parade laps for heat races.

[a25rjr]

I think the problem with putting the "headliner" on the track by XX:XX time is not everyone has the same "headliner" in mind. I know this was posted in the Late Models, but a casual fan may not think of the Late Models as the headliners...maybe its the local high school kid running his compact or the local contractor wheeling a hobby car.The two biggest things I've noticed at my local tracks that seem to do a nice job running an efficient event: 1). One and done for causing a yellow flag in the heat race. 2). No parade laps for heat races.

Yessssss on the no parade laps.

Me and my dad were stuck working out of town one weekend and ended up at the Fla State Fairgrounds. They ran 7 classes of cars and were done at 10. The cars entered out of turn 2 and fired coming out of 4!

[dirt crow]

I understand where you are coming from but it is my opinion that the headline class should be run last. Headline bands don't play before supporting bands, Headline fights (boxing, etc.) don't fight before the supporting fights, so why should racing be any different. If time is the issue and the night is running late then it is most likely an issue with to many support classes. As a late model driver it disappoints me when a track decides to not run us last (unless it is a special for a different class).

The stages and fighting rings don’t wear out. The track does. Touring series / headline event of the night, that A-Main should always be the first A-Main.

[One Man Gang]

Duck River and Thunderhill was the first 2 tracks that popped in my mind when I read that

[Drpepsi]

Maybe each track that is slow should receive a copy of the article in their mailboxes. After a few mailings hit the box they might pay attention.

[callmez]

Ben speaks the truth. I would love to get my 8 year old really interested, but he's slept through more features than he's watched and that's a big reason why he's just not that into it. You can't expect young kids to stay awake 2-3-4 hours past their bedtimes, and they're not going to remain interested if they're sawing logs before the main event every time. This ain't rocket science, promoters -- if you want families there, get the big show in before the kids fall asleep. Let the 4 cyl's chase each other around until 1 AM if you want, but let's put an end to qualifying everything but the water truck and all of the other messing around. Get your heats on the track by 7 PM and move that show along. Some of our local tracks are really bad about this.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

I think the problem with putting the "headliner" on the track by XX:XX time is not everyone has the same "headliner" in mind. I know this was posted in the Late Models, but a casual fan may not think of the Late Models as the headliners...maybe its the local high school kid running his compact or the local contractor wheeling a hobby car.The two biggest things I've noticed at my local tracks that seem to do a nice job running an efficient event: 1). One and done for causing a yellow flag in the heat race. 2). No parade laps for heat races.

Basically...the biggest winner's paycheck of the night is the headliner.. That's just a good rule of thumb.

[BloomerHarvickFan]

Some tracks will ALWAYS drag a program out. I have never been to Tazewell Speedway where it wasn't well after midnight, and usually more like 1 or 2 am.

I went to a Lucas Oil show at Smokey Mountain in Maryville, TN. a couple years back. The Lucas Oil Feature was over by 10:30.!! I was impressed.
The group qualifying, heats and B-mains are a brilliant idea for killing down time.

What kills me is when you run a junk class right before the SLM feature and you have 10 cars and it takes them 30 minutes to run 20 laps. Caution after caution after caution. Some tracks put time limits on lower divisions. I love that idea.

[3 wide]

I thought they would get the hint when all these race tracks that wanted to run till 1 an 2 in the morning stated closing up but I guess that didn't work.

[big willy]

Eldora Speedway under new management is one of the worst offenders... Earl said racing at 7, races started at 7. Now, they fiddle frik around and never start on time.

[3 wide]

No not the worst left green valley in Alabama at 230 hadn't run lm feature closed left Kentucky lake at 1130 the were an hour or longer from starting feature closed north Alabama was closed for the same thing it just reopened I could go on and on.

[fastford]

how are they " left" if there all closed? there are a lot of people that wish green valley was still around.......

[dirt crow]

No not the worst left green valley in Alabama at 230 hadn't run lm feature closed left Kentucky lake at 1130 the were an hour or longer from starting feature closed north Alabama was closed for the same thing it just reopened I could go on and on.

Dude. Use some punctuation.

[TerryM]

I understand where you are coming from but it is my opinion that the headline class should be run last. Headline bands don't play before supporting bands, Headline fights (boxing, etc.) don't fight before the supporting fights, so why should racing be any different. If time is the issue and the night is running late then it is most likely an issue with to many support classes. As a late model driver it disappoints me when a track decides to not run us last (unless it is a special for a different class).
You can’t be serious.

[brsteg]

how are they " left" if there all closed? there are a lot of people that wish green valley was still around.......

This might help

"No, not the worst. I left green valley in Alabama at 2:30am and hadn't run LM feature. Closed
I left Kentucky lake at 1130pm and they were an hour or longer from starting the feature. Closed
North Alabama was closed for the same thing, it just reopened. I could go on and on."

[brsteg]

Eldora Speedway under new management is one of the worst offenders... Earl said racing at 7, races started at 7. Now, they fiddle frik around and never start on time.

They do not start the Dream or the World on time anymore... it bugs me too.

Full events, hot laps seem to go off pretty close to on time.. no?

[PRCKartRacer9]

Raced at Lakeville Speedway in Ohio in the early 2000’s on Friday nights and we had an 11:30 curfew. We would have 90+ mini stocks every week alone along with pure stocks, streets, and late models. At times there were 160 cars in the pits and everyone made the features in mini stocks. A,B, and C mains. All cars off the track at 1130 sharp and we never ran over. One 10 mom intermission for track crew to eat or use the restroom. Other than that we had strict orders to take the checkers and exit at turn 2 because the next class was coming on in turn 3. Made for great entertainment moving so quickly

[brsteg]

All this thread needed was this...

[jr29]

I've found I'm better off driving almost four hours to the St. Louis area for my racing fix. Last year I went to a weekly show at Pevely, watched every race, drove all the way home and saw haulers leaving my local track.

[over4T]

Lots of people bash California for various reasons and, often, false beliefs but one thing we've got right for sure. With land at super premium bucks the majority of our tracks are at county fairgrounds which have a mandated state wide curfew of 11 p:m. A few, such as Petaluma and Roseville, have a self inflicted 10 p:m closure due to close neighbors who don't appreciate our sport. Both the fans and we racers appreciate it, especially when we usually have a 2-5 hour tow home.

[popk77]

Eldora Speedway under new management is one of the worst offenders... Earl said racing at 7, races started at 7. Now, they fiddle frik around and never start on time.

I remember when Earl was in charge, They had 3 heats lined up ready to go at 7, 1st heat was lined up from 6:30 til 6:40, 2nd from 6:40 til 6:50, & 3rd from 6:50 til 7, at 7 the 1st pulled on the track & they started lining up the 4th! I just wonder why they could do it back then & they can't do it now!! The pre-race also was done before 7.

[popk77]

Here it is 10:30 & they just have B features line up at Lucas Oil Race

[nc mudcat]

Went to a weekly dirt show last night in NC. I should have known better, considering they advertised running 7 classes, one of which was a touring class of sprint cars. Track was in decent shape, although they took 2 breaks to do a little bulldozing. All in all a good show, but for the life of me, I don't know why we need a 30 minute (or more) intermission. Qualified 1 class, heats in the others, main events did not start until almost 10:30. I did like the order of events, as the local headliner class was the third race, and the sprint cars were 4th, so right in the middle. I left before the sprints finished, after so many laps riding around under caution, and it was 11:45 when I walked out, with 3 more features to run. Not too late for a lot of you, I know, but I saw a lot of folks leave before that, and only about half the crowd was still there then. As I have gotten older, I guess 11:00 seems to be my threshold. For whatever reasons, the asphalt tracks are able to get me out by 11, but the dirt tracks simply cannot.

[CIRF]

There is a track that is within easy driving distance from us that loves to race 4 and 5 support classes. I have repeatedly contacted track management at this facility and they flatly refuse to tell me where in the order the headline division will race their A-main. Since track management refuses to answer as to where the headline division will fall our group in turn refuses to attend these periodic special shows and will continue to withhold our attendance until the question is answered. In the past we've traveled in a group of 4 paying customers, minimum, sometimes 5.

The reason given for not confirming when in the order of participating classes the headliner A-main will run seems to be a bit sketchy at best. I was told that the facility runs fast and efficient events (that is definitely not always the case and have been in the stands more than once when we've been held hostage) and no matter when the headliner A-main falls it will be early. Hmmm. Okay. Not sure that is guaranteeable .The reason for not answering this legitimate question according to track management is that certain circumstances can cause the A-main lineup to need to be altered and there is no way to anticipate those circumstances. I reckon we have to take them at their word but I've never heard that to be the case at any other facility.

Ben hits the nail on the head and we're with him 100%.

Kenny Dobson at Jacksonville Speedway (Illinois) is the best at assuring that the headliner will run their A-main first and that very seldom varies. Hard to figure how Kenny can be sure and the other track in question can't, or maybe just refuses to.

[fastford]

had a good field of cars sat night at TST , last checker fell at 10:15 , good job .........

[mcarter815]

Racing should be over by 10:30pm regardless of the night. Late shows are hard on teams that run multiple nights a weekend.

[thexfactor0210]

I noticed they are now starting the Dream at Eldora even later. Ugh. It says "Showtime" for saturday is at 8pm! By the time the feature rolls around it will be near 11:30-12.

[fryefan]

Went to Vinton, IA last night for a 6-class program with around a 100 cars. Hot laps rolled out at 6pm. After 12 or so heat races, the 1st feature hit the track at 7:10 pm and the whole program was completed by 8:32 pm.

NO boring time trials and the top 10 or 12 (depends on car count) are inverted in the A-Feature (IMCA) and the racing was excellent. For example, Darin Duffy started 10th in the A-Mod feature and made the winning pass coming off the last turn.

Good Job Mike Van Gendren (race director) !!!!

It was well worth the 3 hour drive (one way).

[fastford]

man , they done 6 classes of hot laps and 12 heat races in just over one hour? that is wild ,

[fryefan]

man , they done 6 classes of hot laps and 12 heat races in just over one hour? that is wild ,

Yes sir.

They use the one-spin rule in the heat races (if you stop/spin and do not get moving before the yellow comes out, then you are done for the heat race). Also, the next heat starts pulling on the track as soon as the previous heat's cars get off the track. They also do not run multiple pace laps before the green flies.

Mike Van Gendren knows how to run an efficient program.

[CIRF]

Yes sir.

They use the one-spin rule in the heat races (if you stop/spin and do not get moving before the yellow comes out, then you are done for the heat race). Also, the next heat starts pulling on the track as soon as the previous heat's cars get off the track. They also do not run multiple pace laps before the green flies.

Mike Van Gendren knows how to run an efficient program.

ff, there are a whole bunch of promoters/competition directors around the country, and especially in Illinois, that need tutoring from this Mr. Van Gendren you speak of! I love the stop/spin rule and the no multiple pace laps. Hat's off to these folks!

[fastford]

I guess what matters is what side of the fence your on , on one side , drivers and crews dont like to be rushed , in any class , on the other , fans dont like to sit and watch people ride around the track on 4 wheeler s and not getting home till 1 or 2 in the morning , like i said earlier , we had a nice field of cars at TST sat night , started at 7 ,every one hot lapped , timed the supers , 2 heat races in the other 6 classes , and the last checker fell at 10;15 , now of coarse this doesn't happen every night , but I think because of the advent of the raceciever , its got way better because a lot of time was spent getting cars back in running order after a caution.......