Tire Soak

[7uptruckracer]

Since it's a hot topic. We all know it happens and at ALOT of tracks its still legal. Most guys who use soak don't get "Name Brand" aka hotlap etc. So what are guys using? Special forumals or cutting name brand stuff. Go Kart Stuff? I doubt this will get many hits besides the usual we don't use it and its dangerous (it is) but it's still legal in alot of places and can be a deal breaker. So anyone want to discuss this?

[billetbirdcage]

You had to know this was coming:

Ask bobby....


Calm down guys it was a joke.

[7uptruckracer]

Sadly I agree with his statement. If it's the lab who I think tested it. Had a buddy get popped and I saw him take the tire off the truck that night cut it and mount it. It might be expensive but they need to take a few samples, save them. Have an appeals panel like Nascar does even for local and regional tracks we have an appeals panel and have a secondary lab test them for appeals. I know what he's talking about has happened first hand now I won't comment on his case at all. But that being said how should I soak my tires if its legal HAHA


You had to know this was coming:

Ask bobby....


Calm down guys it was a joke.

[billetbirdcage]

For starters they need to clear up some things:

1. If you went directly to Hoosier manufacturing plant and randomly took 100 tires and tested them would all 100 meet the benchmark?

2.
A. If it doesn't we have a problem with manufacturing consistency or with the testing
B. If it does, then we need to look at shipping and handling of the tires between then and when the teams can get said tires.

3. If shipping and handling seems to be an issue and possible way of contamination, then the tires need to be sealed in a bag before leaving the plant

4. If manufacturing seems to be an issue then before sealing the tire, it should have a sample taken and kept at Hoosier.

SHRUGS

[7uptruckracer]

Yeah I worked as a machinist for a company that did firestone tire molds and from my understanding and why he put the date code and mold number was no accident. Different runs can vary in the stuff used to make the tire. Benchmark profiles are sent in by the manufacturer and this was also from what I understand to be some of the other drivers popped argument basis is tires that are older and from different batches might not be to the same benchmark....why they can't test for specific chemicals and levels i'm not sure but maybe they do...... I know you are supposed to use a different blade for each sample you take for each persons tire to if you do one RR it should be two blades for samples A and a different one for sample B. Cross contamination could easily happen....

For starters they need to clear up some things:

1. If you went directly to Hoosier manufacturing plant and randomly took 100 tires and tested them would all 100 meet the benchmark?

2.
A. If it doesn't we have a problem with manufacturing consistency or with the testing
B. If it does, then we need to look at shipping and handling of the tires between then and when the teams can get said tires.

3. If shipping and handling seems to be an issue and possible way of contamination, then the tires need to be sealed in a bag before leaving the plant

4. If manufacturing seems to be an issue then before sealing the tire, it should have a sample taken and kept at Hoosier.

SHRUGS

[billetbirdcage]

You can tell when they are actually testing tires and not taking samples just for show:

Example: Won a big show, they came over to take samples of LR tire.

1. They got one crew member and driver to come over to car and watch the whole process.
2. They had us remove tire from car
3. Tech put on new rubber gloves
4. They took out a razor knife and installed a new blade they cleaned with alcohol, made us watch it
5. Cut out 2 squares of the tire
6. put samples in new plastic zip lock bags and labeled bags sample A and B
7. made both the driver and crew sign the labels on bags
8. put each bag in separate glass container and installed seal/label on lid (tamper label have to break to get into container)
9. Both had to sign the tamper seal again


Another show: 2 day show with heats one day and features the next. We won 1st heat race, weighted and went back to pits and parked. 6 heat races, was least 30 minutes after we won 1st heat race that the 6th was finished. I had already taken off the tires and driver put back into trailer. They take samples of all heat race winners and we were the last one they got them from.

1. They came over and said we need a LR sample
2. Car was on jacks and not rear tires on car
3. I told them ok, ask driver because I don't know where he put it in trailer
4. asks driver and he tells him, this one here
5. They take a grooving iron with a #4 blade and just take a swipe out of LR tire
6. No cleaning of tire, iron or anything
7. Puts the sample in a bag with the other 5 samples
8. all 6 are in a bag with no way to tell who's is who's
9. Me and driver laughed after tech guy left

10. won feature next night and they did the same thing
11. I could have told them any tire I wanted to take the sample from

Shakes head.....These were 7500.00 and 12,000.00 to win shows

[Jking24]

I think alot of tracks and Lower series are doing that to give the perception they are having them tested. Scare tactic i guess. We all know the average promoter is not gonna shell out money for tire testing

[7uptruckracer]

I enjoy this part of the conversation but the other half of this is to discuss soak itself so what are most guys using? Name brand or what? Feel free to PM me if you don't want it out there? Its legal at 90% of the tracks my way. Not saying i'll use it but i want to understand it more.

[95shaw]

the karting guys are a good source for this type of information. Some even have experience with sprint and late model tires.

Here is a basic primer to get you started.

http://www.carlsonmotorsports.com/CRETechDec.html

A call or email to this guy will get you headed in that direction.

[a25rjr]

I know a guy........!!! lol

Seriously, he's a good friend of mine and is the local guru of tire prep. Several top teams buy their prep from him and to my knowledge he has never been popped. He claims he's only putting chemicals that are already in there!

I know when you walk into his shop, it looks like a chemical supply warehouse. He keeps it hush hush, and he wont even let me watch when he's making up a batch......go figure!

[7uptruckracer]

Meh I already have Bobby's number a25jr #toosoon?

[President Clinton]

You need to find a kart track in your area and talk to the front runners. They send dirt to labs, as different dirt needs different chemicals. It is used everywhere, especially on “spec” tires. You can gain 3 tenths qualifying down here in the south, but you can also ruin a new set of tires if you don’t know what you are doing. Some of our last cal race parts suppliers will even treat your tires all week for you!!!!! Think it don’t happen ????? Call around in Ga

[Kromulous]

One of the best tire softeners ever was Creasote thinned down with Lacquer thinner, that stuff is the bomb. Oddly enough another good one was belt dressing spray, we used a particular brand that worked wonders on Kart tires.

We have 60k Durham Fords, and 60K Rollers, and Lucas and WRG are worried about tire softeners? Kinda ridiculous really. And i know "It causes Cancer" who cares, if we want to deal with it, use it. A lot of things cause cancer, sun screen is one of the worst in my opinion.

[7uptruckracer]

Thats nasty stuff lol. We don't soften much anymore but you can add bite. I'm sure some do that have a hard tire rule but we are min 1300s around here


One of the best tire softeners ever was Creasote thinned down with Lacquer thinner, that stuff is the bomb. Oddly enough another good one was belt dressing spray, we used a particular brand that worked wonders on Kart tires.

We have 60k Durham Fords, and 60K Rollers, and Lucas and WRG are worried about tire softeners? Kinda ridiculous really. And i know "It causes Cancer" who cares, if we want to deal with it, use it. A lot of things cause cancer, sun screen is one of the worst in my opinion.

[Jim11h]

Engine gunk I'm told will soften them quite a bit. Several years ago guy at Eldora was selling stuff. Swore bloomer and everyone using his stuff but who knows the real truth

[powerslide]

Thats nasty stuff lol. We don't soften much anymore but you can add bite. I'm sure some do that have a hard tire rule but we are min 1300s around here

7up asks what everyone is using then goes on to say ahhh i probably won't do it anyway, then says nah we don't soften, we just add bite. As Billet would say scratches head.

[billetbirdcage]

7up asks what everyone is using then goes on to say ahhh i probably won't do it anyway, then says nah we don't soften, we just add bite. As Billet would say scratches head.

In his defense, I'm sure he means: Not looking to treat tires to actually soften them as he's allowed really soft tires anyways (not on a hard compound that is too hard for the surface) but treating as to make fire quicker or condition the tires.

I'm no expert on doping tires, but there are several things treating can do for you and just softening the tires is about the last things guys are using dope for. There is stuff for just softening, which will show up as lowering the durameter reading of the tire, but the most part that isn't what guys are doing anymore unless you are just on a hard spec tire.

You can also just treat the tread or you can alter the carcass and change the characteristics of how that carcass reacts or both.

[7uptruckracer]

Yes I'm saying exactly what Billet Said. Our track gets to hard for the softest compound I can run, so I don't need to soften but if I can add bite and get it to fire thats what I'm after. Not many guys in DLM soften tires when you have so many compounds to choose from unless you are on a hard tire rule then it makes sense. So scratch away.....

7up asks what everyone is using then goes on to say ahhh i probably won't do it anyway, then says nah we don't soften, we just add bite. As Billet would say scratches head.

[7uptruckracer]

Also "nasty stuff" was referring exclusively to Creosote, it was widely used decades ago and has been proved to be extremely dangerous. I know guys that still use it. They don't let their family in the garage while they are applying it, its used to drop a lot of durometer points, definitely not for me.

7up asks what everyone is using then goes on to say ahhh i probably won't do it anyway, then says nah we don't soften, we just add bite. As Billet would say scratches head.

[dirty white boy]

1/3 acetone, 1/3 mineral spirits, 1/3 transmission fluid - This prep is for at the track application. I Have found that is takes about 15 - 30 minutes soak time depending on the weather and works pretty good.
1/3 mineral spirits, 2/3 diesel fuel - This prep is very slow soak stuff. The way I use this stuff is start soaking tires the day after a race and apply twice a day everday until the day before the next race. The day BEFORE you race early in the morning completely soak tire and wrap in aluminum foil. Leave wrapped until you get to the track or until you get ready to go to the track. This works real well also on tires that have set up and gotten a little harder than normal.
1/2 transmission fluid, 1/2 acetone - I have not used this one yet. I will update later.
1/3 transmission fluid, 1/3 diesel fuel, 1/3 mineral spirits - I have not used this one yet. I will update later.
8 ounces TIRE CLAW, 1 quart diesel fuel, and the balance of a gallon Xylene - This was given to me by Steve Stevens and he claims is will soften a 70 (durometer) to a 0 in about 20 minutes!
50% Xylene - 50% Toluene - This is for at the track application where quick softening is needed. I have to say so far this is my favorite. I requires less than 10 minutes soak time and really works. A BIG plus for this mixture is it doesn't leave that oily residue on the tire you have to scrub off like the mixtures that contain tranny fluid do.
The above mixture of Xylene/Toluene can actually be custom mixed to meet your tracks needs. If you need it to sit on the tire a little longer and not soak in as quick add 2-3 ounces of Transmission fluid to the quart. If you need it to soak in a little more and last a little longer during the race mix in 2-3 ounces of Transmission sealer. The sealer will open the pores on the tire.
Acetone, Xylene, and Toluene are all types of paint thinners/cleaners and can be bought at any commercial paint store. Acetone and Xylene can sometimes be found at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Lowes.

! ! !WARNING! ! !

All of these preps contains materials that are harmfull to the skin. You should ALWAYS wear chemical resistant rubber gloves when applying. Winning a race is not worth risking your health. I'm not saying that any of these formula's are deadly to have but always take every precaution as if they were! Many of the materials listed above also are not good to inhale. Always use in a well ventilated area. Use with caution in a safe manner and maybe this will help you gain a 10th or two.

[7uptruckracer]

Good Info I have seen this in other karting forums before or similar stuff. I have used a home brew of WD-40, Xylene, Naptha VMP for awhile did my coats and wrapped but I have no clue what is in "professionals" stuff From what I was told you need an Oil so it doesn't evaporate, a solvent so it can treat and soften and a vulcanizer so it can alter the molecules but its definitely not my area of expertise while it seems to help on paper no clue if it does on the track so I asked and this is great information! Also from what I add they use toulene in one temp and xylene in another depends on what they need it to do but the "oil" you use keeps the solvent from evaporating off the tire before it can soak in its also why from what i'm told they use acresol to cut a prep with so it works in deeper and longer.....Thanks for all the info guys I found some stuff from a big time speed shop they have sent me to "test" before i buy! I'll let everyone know how it goes but its supposed to add bite. They asked me if there was a scenario I could have it too locked down like a go kart you can do lol I said no....Never seen a dirt late too locked down lol


1/3 acetone, 1/3 mineral spirits, 1/3 transmission fluid - This prep is for at the track application. I Have found that is takes about 15 - 30 minutes soak time depending on the weather and works pretty good.
1/3 mineral spirits, 2/3 diesel fuel - This prep is very slow soak stuff. The way I use this stuff is start soaking tires the day after a race and apply twice a day everday until the day before the next race. The day BEFORE you race early in the morning completely soak tire and wrap in aluminum foil. Leave wrapped until you get to the track or until you get ready to go to the track. This works real well also on tires that have set up and gotten a little harder than normal.
1/2 transmission fluid, 1/2 acetone - I have not used this one yet. I will update later.
1/3 transmission fluid, 1/3 diesel fuel, 1/3 mineral spirits - I have not used this one yet. I will update later.
8 ounces TIRE CLAW, 1 quart diesel fuel, and the balance of a gallon Xylene - This was given to me by Steve Stevens and he claims is will soften a 70 (durometer) to a 0 in about 20 minutes!
50% Xylene - 50% Toluene - This is for at the track application where quick softening is needed. I have to say so far this is my favorite. I requires less than 10 minutes soak time and really works. A BIG plus for this mixture is it doesn't leave that oily residue on the tire you have to scrub off like the mixtures that contain tranny fluid do.
The above mixture of Xylene/Toluene can actually be custom mixed to meet your tracks needs. If you need it to sit on the tire a little longer and not soak in as quick add 2-3 ounces of Transmission fluid to the quart. If you need it to soak in a little more and last a little longer during the race mix in 2-3 ounces of Transmission sealer. The sealer will open the pores on the tire.
Acetone, Xylene, and Toluene are all types of paint thinners/cleaners and can be bought at any commercial paint store. Acetone and Xylene can sometimes be found at Wal-Mart, Home Depot, or Lowes.

! ! !WARNING! ! !

All of these preps contains materials that are harmfull to the skin. You should ALWAYS wear chemical resistant rubber gloves when applying. Winning a race is not worth risking your health. I'm not saying that any of these formula's are deadly to have but always take every precaution as if they were! Many of the materials listed above also are not good to inhale. Always use in a well ventilated area. Use with caution in a safe manner and maybe this will help you gain a 10th or two.