Will the WoO survive??

[Loopy]

WoO has made an announcement trying to get some of the local Wissota late model teams to try and fill the field with the next race this Saturday with them basically only having 15 cars following the tour now, let me remind you last year they turned away the same Wissota racers and now that they are struggling for car counts they are hoping our regulars will fill the void.
You have to wonder who makes these poor choices and if this series is going to survive??

[bleedblue55]

WoO has made an announcement trying to get some of the local Wissota late model teams to try and fill the field with the next race this Saturday with them basically only having 15 cars following the tour now, let me remind you last year they turned away the same Wissota racers and now that they are struggling for car counts they are hoping our regulars will fill the void.
You have to wonder who makes these poor choices and if this series is going to survive??

Curious as to how the WOO turned the local drivers away. I've heard of locals not running WOO or Lucas races because of tire costs or lack of mandated safety equipment.

[Cardirt0]

They have no one to blame but them selfs.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Well they are out there in part of Sprint car country. Will they survive? That's kind of vague question so I'm not sure what your asking, but I don't see why not. Might cause them to rethink some things in the future.

[Hollis]

How many cars will they get at Fairbury? Certainly the safety demands are a issue with many cars. I don't believe safety was a issue at the summer Nats., yet car counts varied greatly.

[chathamracefan]

They will have close to 60 (maybe more) at Fairbury in a couple weeks. They may want to rethink their schedule for future years. I suppose if they are making $ at the gate, they don't mind having a few short fields in the more remote locations on their schedule.

[Pennsboro23]

I've never really understood the reasoning for WoO late models running in that part of the country. (Minn, SD, ND, Wyoming, etc.) There's not a lot of cars out there, and like someone else said, SD and ND is more sprint car country. It's also a heck of a haul for most teams and I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the teams that aren't sitting good in points drop off tour right before they head out west. I understand giving the fans out there a chance to see something different but I don't think it's working well.

[Hollis]

I've never really understood the reasoning for WoO late models running in that part of the country. (Minn, SD, ND, Wyoming, etc.) There's not a lot of cars out there, and like someone else said, SD and ND is more sprint car country. It's also a heck of a haul for most teams and I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the teams that aren't sitting good in points drop off tour right before they head out west. I understand giving the fans out there a chance to see something different but I don't think it's working well.Supply and demand. WoO gets their money up front. The promoter has to decide their value. But, as stated in another post some just not willing to do the travel.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Didn't they also run a few shows a couple yrs back in that part of the region but in Canada? I know they've run in lower far eastern Canada before.

[Tireguy17]

The WoO schedule, when comparing crown jewels versus Lucas, I think is finally catching up with them. WoO has 10 drivers that have ran every show, Lucas has 14, but the competition on both isn't even comparable. WoO has easily 2-3 drivers that could drop off at any time and could leave the series in serious trouble. Its not a healthy series right now.

[Josh Bayko]

The WoO has already made their money from these shows. The low car counts are on the tracks for scheduling big time super late model shows in an area with almost no super late models.

[amusall]

A month ago WoO ran at Stateline, NY (near Erie PA). They had 38 cars on a Thursday night. The following night they had 19 cars 110 miles north at Ransomville. Difference being, Stateline is a late model and EMOD track where Ransomville is a big block track.

[huskerdirt]

WoO has made an announcement trying to get some of the local Wissota late model teams to try and fill the field with the next race this Saturday with them basically only having 15 cars following the tour now, let me remind you last year they turned away the same Wissota racers and now that they are struggling for car counts they are hoping our regulars will fill the void.
You have to wonder who makes these poor choices and if this series is going to survive??

They only have 10 following the tour.

No way in hell they should’ve been at Black Hills. There’s like 1 maybe 2 late models in that area. Plus, it was on frickin Tuesday night. I’ll say it was pretty asinine by both to schedule a date.

[FANSFund]

Minnesota, Wisconsin, North/South Dakota have plenty of cars in this area to help support the series. That said, that far out West during a weeknight... not many guys will travel that far. That issue is NOT ON WOO... that is on the track promoter - travel, weeknight, motor and tire differences... he should have known. There is nothing wrong with the WoO and Lucas Oil would have likely had an identical car count had they sanctioned a race there. Car counts will go up at the next two races at River Cities Speedway (ND) as well as Ogilvie (MN).

The main issue, WISSOTA drivers race with a limited engine package (steel heads is one of main differences) on an engine that is producing 650 - 700+ HP versus open motor at 800 - 900+ HP. Add to that the WISSOTA mandated spec hard compound tire - the open tires the WoO runs at $150 - $180/tire (roughly $1000 in tires for night for tires you won't use the rest of the year). So when the WoO comes to our area, most of our local drivers don't participate because the cost of tires and the HP difference in qualifying to our limited engine package. The funny thing is our drivers are spending huge amounts on what amounts to a spec engine which was designed to control engine costs originally.

This is why events like the USA Nationals and Knoxville don't really showcase a significant number of local drivers. With WISSOTA and IMCA the primary sanctions in these states, some of our best drivers don't race the events due to engine differences and tires. Whereas other events in the mid-Ohio, IL and southern regions draw larger numbers because drivers are racing on nearly identical rules with the WoO.

Again, this is not a WoO issue... it is more of a promoter issue. That said, WoO helped offset drivers expenses with a mid-week event but the choice of location - that I would have questioned.

In a few weeks, you will see Lucas Oil at Jackson, MN which is primarily a Sprint Car track and then another event in Aberdeen SD. Watch how successful those events are despite being at a Sprint Car track and "way out" in Aberdeen... to me, that is good homework and one that will yield successful events that will likely be on the schedule again next year due to their success.

Last point, for those of you who don't know the Jackson, MN track - you will after the Lucas Oil event there. Tod Quiring owns the facility and has turned that track into one of the best facilities in the country. Drivers will rave about the facility and it will be racy. Despite being a mid-week event... I expect a great car count and fan turnout.

Rich Olson
Minneapolis, MN

[MI Dirt Fan]

Does running an event mid week also have an effect?

[Josh Bayko]

Does running an event mid week also have an effect?

Absolutely. Regional and local drivers tend to work 9-5 jobs and traveling a couple hours to a show that they have long odds of making isn't that high on the priority list.

[NY DIRT]

A month ago WoO ran at Stateline, NY (near Erie PA). They had 38 cars on a Thursday night. The following night they had 19 cars 110 miles north at Ransomville. Difference being, Stateline is a late model and EMOD track where Ransomville is a big block track.

You are half right. But nobody runs on a Thursday night . If Ramsomville would of run there show on Thursday night they would of had 30 cars because most of the cars that raced at Stateline would have been there.

Alls well that ends well and Ramsonville had a large crowd because Friday night is there weekly race night and the WOO race was a good one plus there second division was there weekly modified cars.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Absolutely. Regional and local drivers tend to work 9-5 jobs and traveling a couple hours to a show that they have long odds of making isn't that high on the priority list.

Exactly. It's definitely noticable on the SN tour. Especially on Mondays and Tuesdays.


That was setup for disaster running Black hills on a Tuesday night in an area that isn't LM friendly.

[Dante Toledo, OH]

Will Outlaws late models survive? Ummm yep. They are part of world racing group. Pretty sure they are the biggest most successful involved in dirt racing. Outlaws Sprints, late models, UMP, ALMS, The Hell Tour, All race under the WRG banner. Those track pay the series upfront to stage these races. The series could give a flip less what the car count is. And if those tracks lose money and don't want them back. A bunch of other tracks will jump at the chance to get them.

[amusall]

You are half right. But nobody runs on a Thursday night . If Ramsomville would of run there show on Thursday night they would of had 30 cars because most of the cars that raced at Stateline would have been there.Alls well that ends well and Ramsonville had a large crowd because Friday night is there weekly race night and the WOO race was a good one plus there second division was there weekly modified cars.Valid points there. I did not attend Ransomville but was disappointed to see they only had 19 cars.Even more surprising was that there were only 27 cars I believe at the Clash at the Mag. I realize there were other touring series races that weekend but that seemed low for the money up for grabs. As for the series, the tracks due need to put up money for the purse. I know Bowman Grey stadium chooses not to have the Whelen Modifieds back anymore. They sell out every week as it is so having to put up ten of thousands of extra dollars for the Whelen purse isn’t worth it for them.

[a25rjr]

So regional guys spending 70-80k for a car, plus most have toterhomes, are not going to race because of a $1000 set of tires?.....aint buying it!

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

So regional guys spending 70-80k for a car, plus most have toterhomes, are not going to race because of a $1000 set of tires?.....aint buying it!

Is the average wissota guy like that?

[a25rjr]

Is the average wissota guy like that? I would assume the top tier is.

[ShawnStreet]

I can remember a time when "only" 10 drivers running every show was considered huge.

[tb1545]

If a car/ team isnt going to be able to run competitively with the regulars on the WOO tour then do they really help the event in the name of a "full field"?
They have no impact on the quality of racing unless they get in the way while being lapped. Therefore they only would have a negative impact. Most racers respect their fellow racers enough that if they arent competitive they dont really want to hurt anothers chance or be "that guy" that affects another's points race.

[cooter71]

They also lease tracks and put on shows.

[chupp n bloomer fan]

Holy cow, they’ll be fine. Logistics, scheduling, not Rocket science. If this was Atomic, Eldora, Fairbury, Attica, ok, then worry. BFE with no real late models, shouldn’t even go there.

[tsand]

Like somebody said a lot of these races are put on by the WRG the promotors leases the track out. Maybe Craftsman requires the series to run in all of the regions of the country. If the WRG is putting on the races if they only got 19 cars that's a couple of grand less payout at the end of the night.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Rocket1 one is on the road for 6 weeks. Using Donny Schatz's homestead for a base the last few days similar to prior years.

[TUTY]

WOO has 10 and Lucas has what 12 regulars. The previous Saturday at Deer Creek they had 32 LM's in Minnesota and they don't run LM's. They had Sunday and Monday off and a 8-10 hour drive to the Black Hills, stupid. They should only race Aberdeen SD, Huron SD, Ogolvie MN, Deer Creek MN, Jackson MN. Really poor scheduling on there part they are in Wisconsin July 31-Aug 4th. Lucas Oil is in Jackson MN July 18th on a Wednesday night.

[Zonks32x]

If a series...woo, lucas, whoever would like to attract more local/regional drivers to events, here's a couple suggestions for ways to do it.

1) Don't hold events in BFE
2) Don't hold events in areas that have NO local LM racing

3) Visit the tracks you do well at more than once per season

4) For tracks hosting a touring event who also run a regular LM division throughout the season
A) 1/2 price entry fee for the local driver
B) two free pit passes
They're locals racing with the "big boys." They will certainly bring more than 2 people to the track for the "special" event, and this small financial gesture from the series/promoter would be a good start.

5) Increase the min pay to start the feature by $100 for non-touring drivers. (Talking about $800 total per night). This is assuming most of the locals finish in the back 1/2 of the field.

6) $1000 Bonus if a "local" wins the show
Otherwise it's a $250 bonus to the highest finishing local in the show

7) $100 bonus if a "local" wins a heat race

8) Tire raffle/contingency. Series puts the name of all local/regional drivers entered in a hat and draws one or two names. Winner(s) gets one brand new Hoosier racing tire.

All these teams have to buy a set of tires, so Hoosier can endear themselves by giving away 1 or 2 tires. They're still way ahead.

9) Next year Pass.
Highest finishing local/regional driver gets entry fee waved for the next year's series race at that track

[Mod Runner]

You do not always need local racers. Most fans are pleased to see 7 to 8 of the top World of Outlaw racers at a track in their part of the country. You only need 5 to 6 closely matched cars to put on a good race. 19 cars is a good field.

[BirkyTime15B]

Some of the scheduling seems a little crazy to me. I don’t race for a living though. With that said I’ll be at Davenport Speedway supporting racing when the WoO Late Models are there on 7/24.

[Highside Hustler25]

You do not always need local racers. Most fans are pleased to see 7 to 8 of the top World of Outlaw racers at a track in their part of the country. You only need 5 to 6 closely matched cars to put on a good race. 19 cars is a good field.

I can somewhat agree with your post other than that when there is only 19 or less entries, the fan kind of gets screwed by only getting 3 or possibly 2 heats, and no B Main. Unless the admission price is reduced, the paying fan is really not getting his or hers moneys worth.

I wonder what the gate admission was at Blackhills the other night with only 15 entries. 2 heat races and a Feature.

[BigDaddy84]

I've thought if the series sees that they don't have many cars that they could extend the feature to 75 laps. That way the fans get some more racing.

[CageFaraday]

So regional guys spending 70-80k for a car, plus most have toterhomes, are not going to race because of a $1000 set of tires?.....aint buying it!

I don't know of a single "Toter home" that adds 200HP to the engine or takes away the extra weight of an all steel spec engine... Do you? You can't race the truck.

[Sanguinary72]

So here is my take. Black Hills is a WISSOTA track and has a modest group of late models for the normal shows. A few days before, the track had 20 WISSOTA lates running. What happened, that I know of, is several of those drivers contacted WoO only to be told that they could not run. With that, some of those cars there on Friday headed home or otherwise. Fast forward to late Monday morning. I'm talking with Devin Moran and telling him about this. He was confused on the policy and calls up, who I could only assume, was Matt Curl. Devin gets told the official policy is no, they have to be completely legal. However, they would let it slide for the night due to location and other factors. At this point, I pass on what I know to other drivers but the news came too little to late. Lots of cars were tore apart and generally not ready for the show. Many of these cares were coming off an 8 night tour. I could almost guarantee there would have been more cars had the information been dispersed. That is why posts are showing up saying drivers can race at these other tracks. Granted, the cars gained would not have been super lates, but so what. For those so quick to say they shouldn't race there, it was designed to give the drivers some vacation time in the Black Hills. I just wanted to clear up that there is local late model racing. There is the ability to have decent car counts. This deal ended up being the perfect storm of communication errors, even though there sure seems to be a lot of people on here who know the racing area and its specifics.....

[Krooser]

The Wissota spec engine has a Brodix aluminum head...

Doesn't WoO allow a guy to run three events per year without the upgraded safety equipment? That's how it was presented when the change occurred.

[Josh Bayko]

So regional guys spending 70-80k for a car, plus most have toterhomes, are not going to race because of a $1000 set of tires?.....aint buying it!

The WoO tends to run tire rules that include whatever the locals run. Tires shouldn’t really be an issue.

[Bubstr]

So regional guys spending 70-80k for a car, plus most have toterhomes, are not going to race because of a $1000 set of tires?.....aint buying it!

I can remember, saving my Nickle's and dimes, buying a brand new 62 Pontiac Cat, with a 421 and 4 speed. I couldn't afford to drive it every day. A lot of racers didn't figure on the day to day cost. It can get overwhelming. The start up costs are covered by selling everything you have accumulated. Corvette, boat, camper and motorcycle. When they try to sell off, they find the wife isn't staying for another try also. A divorce costs more than tires. It still comes down to what straw broke the camel's back. Does it matter if you spent that straw on a Toterhome or a tire?

[minhhuyen1994s]

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- Phục vụ nÆ°á»›c uống, ăn nhẹ vÃ(not a nice word) café theo yêu cầu.
Vá»›i có vị trÃ(not a nice word) đắc địa, há»™i trÆ°á»�ng tại tòa nhÃ(not a nice word) Ä�Æ°á»�ng Việt được thiết kế sá»(not a nice word) dụng tối Ä‘a ánh sáng thiên nhiên vÃ(not a nice word) cây xanh, khi tổ chức sá»± kiện tại đây, ngoÃ(not a nice word)i sá»± thÃ(not a nice word)nh công tốt đẹp của buổi há»™i nghị còn lÃ(not a nice word) sá»± thoải mái của quý khách tham gia bằng tầm nhìn đẹp từ tòa nhÃ(not a nice word) trong giá»� phút nghỉ nghỉ giữa chừng.
Liên hệ cho thuê há»™i trÆ°á»�ng tại Ä�Ã(not a nice word) Nẵng:

- Hotline: 01207 88 0707

- Ä�ịa chỉ: 30 Nguyá»…n Hữu Thá»�, Hải Châu, Ä�Ã(not a nice word) Nẵng.

[jlacey]

^ Yeah what that guy said ^

[jlacey]

Can any1 translate hieroglyphics?

[Swampy121]

^ Yeah what that guy said ^

The post was gibberish and it still had censored words 😂

[Swampy121]

Can any1 translate hieroglyphics?

Call the hotline at the bottom 😉

[powerslide]

They need to run the tire rule that the local tracks run and not force the locals to buy tires, goes for lucas and WoO. But that might give the locals a fighting chance we can't do that.

[Josh Bayko]

They need to run the tire rule that the local tracks run and not force the locals to buy tires, goes for lucas and WoO. But that might give the locals a fighting chance we can't do that.

The WoO typically does include whatever the local tires are for their races. Their tire rules change from race to race.

[Krooser]

And who sez you have to buy new tires? I would imagine several teams would be glad to sell or give away WoO/Lucas compound tires to the little guys. One new RR and youre set...

[powerslide]

The WoO typically does include whatever the local tires are for their races. Their tire rules change from race to race.

Not include, conform to the current rules the tracks are running. Its a lot easier for the touring guys to keep up with and afford all these sets of tires and have a chance to use them again than it is a local once a year.

We all know the tire game can put you at a huge disadvantage. When we could run 1300's or wrs2 but didn't have experience on 1300's so took them off too soon and got smoked. Not to mention they probably have 3 or more versions of the 1300 that are allowed.

[dmr37]

It translates as:

"Good deal on used tires - call hotline. Bloomer is full of (not a nice word)"

[LMNED10]

They need to stick to a two tire rule and be done with and many of the locals at the tracks can compete

[a25rjr]

They need to stick to a two tire rule and be done with and many of the locals at the tracks can compete

Their rules dictate 2-3 different compounds , but most are only gonna use 2.

[AnonymousNate]

that is a shame! To turn racers away. Then turn back around and want same ones to fill in spaces! SMH :(

[jog49]

The person who started this thread apparently has never been to a Lucas Oil race. They aren't exactly dragging 35 cars around the country. 10 regulars versus 14 regulars doesn't carry much in the way of bragging rights.
Dirt SLM racing looks to be following NASCAR down the crapper.

[MI Dirt Fan]

The person who started this thread apparently has never been to a Lucas Oil race. They aren't exactly dragging 35 cars around the country. 10 regulars versus 14 regulars doesn't carry much in the way of bragging rights.
Dirt SLM racing looks to be following NASCAR down the crapper.

It was never about Lucas. The title of the topic said WoO.

[FANSFund]

Again, whether you guys want to admit it... it comes down to tires, motor, travel costs and a weeknight event. The tire and motor issue are huge for our local guys. And from the WoO Tire Bulletin - the tire rule for the events for Black Hills, Grand Forks and Ogilvie are an open tire rule (see below) in an area where hard compound tires on all four corners are the rule. Drivers just cannot buy different tires and just bolt them on. Their HP difference, weight of motor and softer tires completely change the cars set-up based upon what they normally run. Most of our guys would be guessing on set-ups. Why would our local racers spend over $1,000 in tires, fuel, travel costs, wear and tear on a race car to make a couple hundred bucks in start money? Not when you have local specials running the same night when you can win $3,000 and run your normal stuff. If your not from the Midwest, you just don't understand what a big deal it is for our racers to race against open competition Dirt Late Models. No where else in the country (other than maybe the West Coast) has such a difference.

WoO ran an open tire rule according to its tire bulletin

World of Outlaws Craftsman Late Models
TIRE BULLETIN - Starting Friday June 29th – Drivers will be allowed to Change Tires at anytime
Dubuque Speedway – July 6th, 2018 –
Left Front, Right Front & Left Rear – Hoosier LM 20’s
Right Rear – Hoosier LM 20’s, LM 40, WRS-2
Davenport Speedway – July 24th, 2018 –
Left Front, Right Front & Left Rear – Hoosier LM 20, LM 30s, W30s
Right Rear – Hoosier LM 20, LM 30s, W30s, LM 40, WRS-2
Plymouth Dirt Track – July 30th, 2018 –
Left Front, Right Front & Left Rear – Hoosier LM 30s, W30s
Right Rear – Hoosier LM 30s, W30s, LM 40
Shawano Speedway – July 31st
, 2018 –
Left Front, Right Front & Left Rear – Hoosier LM 20, LM 30s, W30s
Right Rear – Hoosier LM 20, LM 30s, W30s, LM 40
Cedar Lake Speedway – August 2, 3 & 4th, 2018 – USA 100 Weekend
Hoosier LM 40 on all (4) corners
Farley Speedway – August 6th, 2018 –
Left Front, Right Front, Left Rear, & Right Rear – Hoosier LM 20, LM 40 or WRS-2/55
The Dirt Track at Charlotte Motor Speedway – November 1, 2 & 3rd, 2018 – World Finals Weekend
Left Front, Right Front & Left Rear – Hoosier 1300, 1350
Right Rear – Hoosier 1300, 1350, 1450, D70
Matt Curl

World of Outlaws Craftsman Late Models

[FANSFund]

Lucas Oil is allowing four compounds of tires at its SD and MN events - LM20, LM40, WRS2 and W30 (this is a WISSOTA spec tire.) The issue, Lucas is allowing siping and grooving of tires which is no longer allowed for WISSOTA teams.

You have a soft compound tire you can run on the fronts and LR as well as siping and grooving... it is like bringing a knife to a gunfight. This type of tire rule will not promote many local drivers in our area to compete.

If they did an LM40, WRS2 and W30 - no grooving or siping allowed... maybe more local guys might be more willing to race.

Lucas Oil Tire Bulletin:

Tire Rule for July 17th-18th:
Fronts - Hoosier LM20
Rears - Hoosier LM40, WRS2
*Wissota Late Models can use Hoosier W30 but must use them on all 4 corners all night.
*Must use the same set of 4 tires for Time Trials, Heat Races, and B-Main.
*For the A-Main, competitors may use a new right rear tire.
*Cutting and/or siping of any tire IS allowed.

[jlacey]

The post was gibberish and it still had censored words 

Haha i noticed that too