The System is Flawed: One Weekly Racer's Thoughts on Tire Testing. Z. Dohm. GOOD READ

[HoosierDirtFan]

The System is Flawed: One Weekly Racer's Thoughts on Tire Testing.
Link - https://www.huntthefront.net/single-post/2018/07/24/The-System-is-Flawed-One-Weekly-Racers-Thoughts-on-Tire-Testing-2

[Stefan2k4]

Whether or not the tire testing is accurate or not, is debatable but this whole article is poppy(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word)(not a nice word) and is based on false assumptions and a misreading and misinterpretation of WRG's statement. The article says this.


BOBBY PIERCE WAS DISQUALIFIED AND PENALIZED FOR SOAKING TIRES WHEN, IN FACT, NEITHER HE NOR ANYONE ON HIS TEAM SOAKED HIS TIRES.

However, that is NOT what WRG said in their statement. What they said was this.


Regardless of whether or not the team was aware of the infraction, the tire did not conform to the required specification and benchmarks.[Quote]

In that statement, they are NOT saying they don't believe they team knew the tire was out of spec. Instead, they are saying, it doesn't matter one way or the other. And if you think about this it makes perfect sense.
Let's say a driver who competes in a racing class where there is a limit of engine displacement to 358 Cid, purchases an engine from some other racer. The driver is told by that person the engine is 358cid and is therefore legal in the class he competes it. The engine is ready to run, so the driver simply installs it in his car and goes racing. Now, when this driver shows up and races at his local track, he finds that his engine is quite powerful, moreso than he expect. He's very pleased spanks the rest of the field that night. However, after the race, the driver gets protested. He thinks he's legal, so he submits to the protest. When the engine is torn down and inspected it's discovered his 358Cid engine is actually a 410Cid engine.

So, here's the question, should the driver be disqualified and have his win taken from him? Or should the track say "It's okay. You didn't know. Therefore even though your engine was way over the spec and gave you a huge advantage over your competitors, we're going to let it slide and give you the money and the win anyway." If they did the later, who would all those other competitors, who got beaten by an out of spec motor feel? Would it be the right thing to do? Would it be fair to all those other driver, just because, "he didn't know"?

Enforcement of the rules SHOULD NOT BE DEPENDENT UPON INTENT! The rules aren't in place to police intent. The rules exist to ensure a level playing field. Therefore Intent doesn't really matter at all. If one team or driver has a part that's way out of spec and gives them a sizeable advantage over everyone else, that IS NOT A LEVEL PLAYING FIELD! And that is exactly what the rules are in place to prevent. Intent may be important, when considering how harsh or punitive the punishment should be, but it does mean someone should be excused and allowed to benefit from an infraction.

[Quote]Now, I’m not going to tell you I believe everyone who’s ever denied soaking their tires.

And here is another HUGE problem with this article and this whole Pierce/tire scandal. The writer of this article makes it clear he believes the tire testing is flaw. However, it would seem it's only flawed when drivers he happens to like fail the test. When it's a driver he doesn't like, the tests are perfectly accurate and they got what they deserved.

Honestly, I don't know if these tire tests are accurate or not, but if they are accurate, they should be accurate for everybody and if they aren't, then we can't say that only the drivers we don't like were rightfully busted! You can't have it both ways. If you want to have both ways, you're a hypocrite!

[Stefan2k4]

Ultimately, when you accept the validity of lab results that say one thing and lie detector tests that say the opposite, there’s obviously an issue with the system.
Whether or not the process the labs use to test the tires are accurate, we don't know. Nor do we know that every tire that leaves the factory conforms closely to the spec. However, here are some things we DO know about polygraph tests.

http://www.apa.org/research/action/polygraph.aspx


Most psychologists agree that there is little evidence that polygraph tests can accurately detect lies.


The accuracy (i.e., validity) of polygraph testing has long been controversial. An underlying problem is theoretical: There is no evidence that any pattern of physiological reactions is unique to deception. An honest person may be nervous when answering truthfully and a dishonest person may be non-anxious. Also, there are few good studies that validate the ability of polygraph procedures to detect deception. As Dr. Saxe and Israeli psychologist Gershon Ben-Shahar (1999) note, "it may, in fact, be impossible to conduct a proper validity study." In real-world situations, it's very difficult to know what the truth is.


Evidence indicates that strategies used to "beat" polygraph examinations, so-called countermeasures, may be effective


Lie detector tests have become a popular cultural icon — from crime dramas to comedies to advertisements — the picture of a polygraph pen wildly gyrating on a moving chart is readily recognized symbol. But, as psychologist Leonard Saxe, PhD, (1991) has argued, the idea that we can detect a person's veracity by monitoring psychophysiological changes is more myth than reality.


Most psychologists and other scientists agree that there is little basis for the validity of polygraph tests. Courts, including the United States Supreme Court (cf. U.S. v. Scheffer, 1998 in which Dr.'s Saxe's research on polygraph fallibility was cited), have repeatedly rejected the use of polygraph evidence because of its inherent unreliability.

[CageFaraday]

I happen to be one of those who think something is flawed in the tire testing system. Either at the factory the tolerances are wide and varied resulting in benchmark samples varying from production samples or lab idiots or even contamination from coming in contact with the surface traveled by another tire. I think there is room for doubt. Does anyone know if any research has been done to find out the plausibility of whether a tire can become contaminated by being on the racing surface where a treated tire has been? I'm not saying I think it can or can't, I want to know if anyone has ever bother to see if its possible and a then maybe a bunch of racers are getting smeared needlessly by an over zealous ignorant sanction. I know racers cheat, I know some don't feel they are actually racing if they aren't breaking some rule and fulfilling their lust for it. But its always been troubling to me that so many were willing to challenge the sanction in court and only backed down after essentially being threatened/intimidated into backing off. Now this Bobby deal comes along and its becoming a pattern. Everybody knows that the races at Eldora are going to be scrutinized like crazy and I expect some no name to roll the dice against the big guns, but when established names over and over keep getting busted at the same track, it raises questions in my mind. Personally I don't like and/or trust WRG/WoO because they desire complete control of ALL dirt racing and being a free market guy, that scares me. They've exhibited behaviors typical of other big corporations where they are willing to say or do anything to, "save face" and honesty and integrity don't go hand in hand with that mentality.

[Illtsate32]

I agree Cage there are many many variables they need to research before they should just stick somebody with a fine and suspension, such as like you mentioned can a tire be contaminated by driving on the dirt that another soaked tire put down, until they can narrow these variables down to where they know what is possible and what is not, they should do away with the tests, horrible injustice if its possible you can fail a benchmark from driving in the tire tracks of a soaked tire, and thats just one of the many variables they need to research...

[Cardirt0]

the FIX ,,,,Make a better tire...

[tb1545]

Until the day a national/ bigger regional Sprint Car driver (or hell, any sprint car driver) gets busted for tires, I will believe the late model tire testing procedure is busted and hurting the sport.