I find it amusing ....

[hucktyson]

Every single car owner who quits always goes way over the top to emphasize that cost has nothing to do with quitting lol lol So let me get this straight if Motor’s cost 200k instead of 50k then you wouldn’t quit ??? Listen racing is probably the absolute worst way to blow your money except maybe drugs. No matter how much money you have you can blow it on racing but if you have enough money you will die before you blow it all on drugs lol.

[Kwd1253]

Agree huck, most of the time has do with money reason quitting. 1. Cost of racing (A) they are coming way out of pocket. (B) losing sponsors or can’t pick more up to cover over head. (C) can’t get sponsors give more money. 2. They don’t have the time to run a team or watching over cost because what ever taking up their time. 3. Lose the passion for racing and dealing with it. 4. Just to old keep doing it.

[hucktyson]

My point being is that the cost of racing is the biggest driver in the “ losing passion “ If they were having years like snort had in 2015 they would “ have the passion “ unless you have a 9 figure net worth that is growing 10% or more a year the cost of dirt late models at the top levels is significant ....

[B_K]

Have a kid (or some grandkids) and see if what your passionate about doesn't change over time. I still love going to the races, but not at the expense of missing one of my daughter's games/school functions. There are many who juggle both and kudos to them. There are others who from a fan level to car owner that see their interest and priorities float in a different direction.

Money is not always the reason. I'm fortunate enough to be able to go to whatever race I chose to, but I haven't been to one more than two hours away in a while. Same with car owners. I'm sure a lot of them could easily afford to stay in it, but if you're taking away from other parts of your life, what's the point?

[golddirt]

BK I completely understand what you are saying I am as a fan used to hit 3 to 4 races every week. I am now Find myself raising a teenage daughter which changed my life completely and I am lucky if I have been to seven races this year. Not only has the lifestyle change kept me from going to as many races but I also get tired of the drama that is going on and being a late model fan there's just not a whole Lotta places to go to anymore. I remember you could expect 35 cars for a weekly show in late models well congratulations all of the spending has stop that

[BerckFan]

Have a kid (or some grandkids) and see if what your passionate about doesn't change over time. I still love going to the races, but not at the expense of missing one of my daughter's games/school functions.

This ^^^^^

[billetbirdcage]

Cost is almost certainly all ways a factor in some way or the other, but sometimes in other ways then a guy would think. Besides the obvious, some times it's just not a fun as it used to be with all the money on the line. Racing is supposed to be fun, but with the cost it's easy to get frustrated when you run bad and thus makes you second guess continuing to speed that kind of money.

Case and point: A sprint car driver wasn't having a good year and tore up some stuff and just decided to take a break for the rest of the year and just race a mod-lite locally. He won his first mod-lite race the other week and said he had more fun and was more excited over that win then he had been in a long long time. It's just way less pressure and easier to have fun when you don't have all that money on the line.

[PRCKartRacer9]

That's why I race karts with a $100 predator motor. We race for stickers.

[Zonks32x]

Huck, I think you're correct that $$ plays a role, but I think a huge part of the deal is pride as well.

Many of these owners are self-made successful businessmen and accustomed to "winning" every day in their professional lives. They want championships and nothing less. So they spend big $$ and get frustrated when it doesn't happen, go through drivers, chassis changes, engine builders, and then finally sell out and move on b/c it's not fun if they're not winning.

There's no shame in finishing 2nd or 3rd on a National tour, but I believe there are plenty who long for the trophy & the bragging rights more than the winner's check.

Unfortunately, there's always a BIGGER fish in the pond who can out-spend & out-compete everyone else. We can all name those teams...Nationally, Regionally, and at our home tracks.

Wish I had the answer.

[hucktyson]

You are absolutely right guys with that kind of money as used to getting whatever they want whenever they want it and racing doesn’t work that way. People say racing is healthy because there are still enough of those guys ... those guys will get tired of it eventually , the guys that sustain it are the people who grew up doing it and love doing it. Racing was much more fun winning limited late races than getting smoked at national events but I like the challenge of trying to get 100% out of my skills and equipment at big events more than the challenge of avoiding wrecks at local crate races lol

[RW57]

He speaks the truth about grandkids have 1 fixing to turn 2 another grandson due in December I got back into racing last year buying my son out as he walked away. I was on fire at first then had a detached retina ending last yr.Was supposed to race Tonite grandson came to stay with Big Daddy while his mom was at work. We did some errands race car what race car yeah money is a factor but my priorities have changed.

[Raceready]

That's why I race karts with a $100 predator motor. We race for stickers. We raced in a Clone class. Everyone was supposed to have the $97.00 Harbor Freight stock engine. Everybody that ran up front had at least $400.00 of machining and trick parts in the engine. Then the big money went into the chassis and components. I know that there was at least 1 company that built and sold already tricked up engines for about a grand. We would get $25 for a win and a few times in the season there would be a 40 or 50 to win special.

[kidrock]

BK I completely understand what you are saying I am as a fan used to hit 3 to 4 races every week. I am now Find myself raising a teenage daughter which changed my life completely and I am lucky if I have been to seven races this year. Not only has the lifestyle change kept me from going to as many races but I also get tired of the drama that is going on and being a late model fan there's just not a whole Lotta places to go to anymore. I remember you could expect 35 cars for a weekly show in late models well congratulations all of the spending has stop that

I'm guilty of not going as well. First my brother and I sold our cars and everything with them because for me my job changed and for my brother his daughters had kids which became more important and who can blame him for that. It just doesn't seem to be as important for me to go to the track anymore but, still like to watch at home and keep up with what's going on.

[dirtcrazy4u]

Hey huck. You could be a top local car owner ? The equipment you have is top tier, the guy behind the wheel is a guy that puts his business first. Which is what comes first. I feel you would be a lot better driver if you had more seat time. When you reach those 7 figure numbers let Jared take it for a ride.

[Highside Hustler25]

All successful dirt late model racers have a sugar daddy in some form or another.

[kazual]

^^ Pretty much true, sure there may be exceptions but not many. Which causes me concern for the next time we hit a recession and $4-5 a gallon diesel fuel.

[CageFaraday]

That's why I race karts with a $100 predator motor. We race for stickers.

I'm very sorry to hear that. Is this the same class that stipulates the gears and tires you can run too? This to me is not racing, its riding in circles and pretending its racing. Next I suppose they'll just have everyone sit in formation on the grid and make noises with their lips and call that racing. Its not you Im going off on, its what our society has degraded into. Heaven help us if we're ever invaded, they take us easier than Paris with a Panzer.

[mcarter815]

I'm very sorry to hear that. Is this the same class that stipulates the gears and tires you can run too? This to me is not racing, its riding in circles and pretending its racing. Next I suppose they'll just have everyone sit in formation on the grid and make noises with their lips and call that racing. Its not you Im going off on, its what our society has degraded into. Heaven help us if we're ever invaded, they take us easier than Paris with a Panzer.

I want to see you jump in a Legends car and then tell us that it's not racing.

[CageFaraday]

I want to see you jump in a Legends car and then tell us that it's not racing.

How you made the quantum leaf from karts with $100 dollar engines to Legend cars is beyond me. Speaking of legend cars, I use to build the shocks for 600 racing. I have a guy locally that I help with his legend car and its a far cry from a kart with Spec: $100 engine, Spec: Tires, Spec: Gear ratio that competes for a sticker. Legend cars have multiple engines you can utilize, the sealed one you buy from 600 racing and the one you can build yourself. Sadly Legends are just as corrupt as crate late models. In Legend cars if you want the best engine you have to know the right guy at the engine shop and he'll sell you the, "Pick of the Litter" so to speak. Same with shocks, they may be spec, but you can get the ones that dyno'd out better than the rest, for a price. This is the nature of things, whenever in racing you try to socialize it by mandating everyone be exactly the same, someone is always willing to go around the rules for a price. Sealed spec anything only gives comfort to those who don't understand how the world works or human nature, socialism and communism make the same mistake. If a guy wants to ride in circles with his friends for sticker, I don't have an issue with it, but to me its only singular dimensional.

Racing isn't just for drivers, that just the part we get to see. Racing has many facets, some people are really good at setups, some are great at building their own engines, some at building chassis and on and on. When you start making everything spec "purchased" and not letting those who race by other avenues compete, then your shutting out a lot of people that no longer get to race. They always sell it as costs savings, like a GM604, but I could build a better engine myself for less, because I bothered to learn how. I've built racing engines from stock class briggs, to super stock, to limited modified, to Hobby car SBC's to Super Late model and we were still able to win on the local level.

Legend was sold as cost saving entry level, but like I mentioned above when it comes to seals and specs there is always a way around and those willing to sell and those willing to pay for it. I don't mind any of the mentioned classes, but don't fool yourself into thinking that you're on a level playing field. I'm in favor of having set rules and letting me find the best route based on my own budget. Letting me save money in areas where I can do things for myself, because I bothered to learn.

I actually had a guy argue with me on a sprint car message board. He was in favor of ALL spec tires with no grooving and no sipping or anything. Not because he didn't have the money or any cost factor, his issue was that he and his team were younger and less experienced. He thought that it wasn't fair that the experienced guys knew what to do to the tires and when and that he didn't. So his solution, instead of learning or asking for help or volunteering with an experienced team was to simply make their experience irrelevant. He even told me that the veterans should have to come and work with his team to see how hard it was being the new guy. I was dumbfounded... I tried pointing out his logic was reversed, but its the way the younger generation was educated to think. Instead of aspiring to greater heights and putting in the time and work to acquire skills, they think the right thing is to lower everyone to their level.

I myself have been at the racing game in one form or another, starting as a newbie at 16 back in 1986 to being a crewman, a driver, a suspension specialists, crew chief and anything else that was needed. I have a library of 100's of magazines I've read on racing technology and not just DLM, I've got probably 80-100 books on race car engineering, suspension setup & design, engine building, tires, driving, driver fitness, biographies, etc. I've read them all so I could be a better racer. I refuse to run in any class, of any sort that removes me from the process altogether except for driving. Racing involves so much more than just driving, but younger people and those who don't want to put in the effort can't understand that. Sadly this mindset has infected a large part of society, he!! bent on mediocrity, participation trophies and sadly now, "Stickers".

[Illtsate32]

Cage you are correct on so many levels, whats scary is the younger generation as individuals are not stupid they are being taught that is the way to think..

[2muchstagger]

I'm very sorry to hear that. Is this the same class that stipulates the gears and tires you can run too? This to me is not racing, its riding in circles and pretending its racing. Next I suppose they'll just have everyone sit in formation on the grid and make noises with their lips and call that racing. Its not you Im going off on, its what our society has degraded into. Heaven help us if we're ever invaded, they take us easier than Paris with a Panzer.


Guess I am having a hard time correlating the issues with today’s younger generations and someone who chooses to do something for the fun of doing it. Don’t quite understand why you want to degrade someone for doing a hobby. And to the vast majority of people racing is a hobby. At least he has a good hobby.

As far as the idea of everyone having the exact same equipment and setup is not racing, back in the day IROC was pretty much that and from what I remember was pretty good racing. Personally, if I was racing, I would take more satisfaction in the fact I was beating everyone knowing they had the exact same setup as I did. At least I would know that I was better than everyone else all things being the same. Driver has to have skill too believe it or not and not everyone is the same. Sorry the tone of the post struck a nerve.

[Krooser]

IROC was exibition racing... no one raced there for a living. They got paid to build the cars and get pro's to race them.

Spec racing really sucks... no creativity... someone is always bitching that another guy is cheating. A few major rules is all a guy needs.

Back in the 70's the WI dirt racing scene was thriving. The LM's had three basic rules for most specials... 11" tires, one four barrel carb and a '66 or later body. Period. 30-50 cars was not uncommon.

The veterans here know that as things progressed more rules came along... some good some not. Not all rules are bad but they get twisted and revised into mere shadows of their first incarnation.

It's amazing to me that out DLM rules are generally much simpler than say IMCA rules. But the IMCA LM rules are pretty good... not those 50 page deals with so many mistakes and simply stupid regulations.

I like the rule that sez "nose much match body make and model".... so we actually should be running a Wrisco flat aluminum nose or a Camry factory body with a Toyota nose... or the rule we have locally "aluminum wheels only".... can't run a cheap steel wheel.

I know they wanted to get rid of carbon fiber rims and such but be specific. I guess there's a reason racers and promoters don't write book's like Gone with the Wind.

I often think Red Green should take a shot at writing the rule books... at least we'd actually save $$$.