Rank these late model careers

[Pennsboro23]

Interesting topic I was discussing the other day, I thought I would ask 4m their opinion. Kind of like professional sports, every sport has a greatest of all time or a top 10. Scott Bloomquist is the greatest of all time in our sport, I don't think there is much debate there. Rank the top 10 CURRENT late model drivers based on their legacy's. Don't include drivers who you think will be their in 10-15 years...rank the top 10 active drivers. List their accomplishments If you have to, give some reasoning. I think it gets interesting after the top 2-3. Let's keep it civil and have a good debate.

My list

1.) Scott Bloomquist - Not much needs to be said here, has won every major event.
2.) Billy Moyer - In my opinion, undoubtedly the second best driver of all time. Don't need to list any accomplishments here.
3.) Jimmy Owens - Maybe the best 5 year stretch in late model history.
4.) Jonathan Davenport - 2015, best year ever for a late model driver. 2 Time lucas oil champ, still young and has won plenty of crown jewels already.
5.) Rick Eckert - Here's where it gets tough, DTWC winner, Dream, USA Nats, WoO Champ
6.) Tim McCreadie - WoO champ, World 100, USA Nats, Knoxville
7.) Dale McDowell - World 100, Dream, USA Nats
8.) Brian Birkhofer - World 100 x 2, DTWC
9.) Don O'Neal - Lucas oil title, Dream, DTWC
10.) Darrell Lanigan - WoO champ, Dream, DTWC



5-10 is a tough call.

[Josh Bayko]

With the sheer numbers of wins and titles, I’d have to squeeze Richards in there somehow.

[lokwaidid]

I'd have to put donnie moran ahead of Davenport.

[Josh Bayko]

I'd have to put donnie moran ahead of Davenport.

It’s supposed to be current drivers, and Donnie Moran hasn’t raced a late model in like five years.

[Barbecueboy]

Shocked that your top 10 wouldn't include EPJ......doesn't make it wrong, just strange he wouldn't be in that conversation considering what he has won over the years.

[Barbecueboy]

Yes, should be there.....

[Pennsboro23]

It's tough, I wanted to include Richards but his lack of crown jewel wins has me on others ahead of him. Josh will def. be top 5-8 by time it's all done, maybe higher.

EPJ was considered, as well as Chub and Babb. Looking back at it, I may put EPJ ahead of Darrell.

Someone else rank em, lets see it.

[waaac77]

1) Scott Bloomquist - Has dang near double the major wins as Moyer does. No one will touch these numbers ever.

2) Billy Moyer - Has nearly double the major wins as Owens. Clear #2 of all time of current drivers

3) Jimmy Owens - The clear #3. Checked off Knoxville this year and has now won every major event out there at least once.

4) Jonathan Davenport - 2015 was amazing. This year was pretty good but he still has a long way to go to catch Owens let alone the other two.

5) Brian Birkhofer - Now that he’s back and looking into form, he can go on this list. Amazing career before the hiatus. You used to be able to go onto his website and I’d just watch the ticker of all his major race wins. Hopefully he’ll be back out next year. I don’t think I’m alone when I say I would love to see him back in the winner circle of a major event.

6) Don O’Neal - Seems to check off a few major events every couple years. One of the greats and definitely the most ballsy driver in DLM history. Seems there’s nothing he can’t do in a racecar.

7) Jimmy Mars - Has had a long successful career. 2009 was probably the greatest year in the history of DLMs until Davenport’s 2015 campaign. That year he won the Firecracker, PDC, USA Nationals, North/South and the DTWC. He’s scattered a couple other big wins along the way and still remains a bit relevant.

8) Dale McDowell - Macdaddy has a Dream, World and two USA Nationals wins. Always a threat wherever he goes even today. Don’t see him slowing down anytime soon.

9) Josh Richards - Has had a lot of success on major tours and was very impressive last year winning the DTWC and the Lucas title at the same race. Also has two USA Nationals victories. Still hasn’t won at the Big E. Should have about 17 Knoxville wins but is the Michael Andretti of that race. He will have a lot of big wins to come in the future.

10) Brandon Sheppard - A lot like Kid Rocket. Great on tours. Has two DTWCs and one USA Nationals. Will get a lot more throughout his career.

Major wins = Wins at one of the following events:
Show-Me
Dream
Firecracker
Silver Dollar
PDC
USA Nationals
North/South
Topless
Hillbilly
World
Knoxville
DTWC

[Pennsboro23]

Good deal Waaac77

[jb20]

1. Bloomquist (No question on this one)
2. Moyer (Also no doubt here)
3. Owens (That 5 year stretch is mind-boggling to look back on)
4. Davenport (Touring titles plus crown jewels puts him ahead of Richards)
5. Richards (Possibly the best points racer on this list)
6. McDowell (As I type this, I wonder what I'm doing listing him #6)
7. Pearson (His longevity and this year's resurrection are impressive)
8. Eckert (Very similar to Pearson minus the resurrection)
9. Mars (He's quietly won a ton of big races in his career)
10. O'Neal (Incredibly versatile and wins in whatever he drives)

Really good thread here, Penn. Very thought provoking.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I agree 100% with Bayko. Richards is definitely in there about where Tmac is. I don't know if Tmac would be in my top 10. Probably honorable mention. But Richards definitely is. He is still shy of a few major wins but he definitely has to be considered.

I think one of the only major events Bloomquist hasn't won is the PDC.

[Tireguy17]

Richards is a 4-time WoO Champion and has the most all-time WoO wins (76).

There are only 2 drivers who have won both the WoO and Lucas Oil titles. 1 is Bloomquist and the other is Richards.

Im not a fan of his but he belongs in the Top 10, if not the Top 5.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I always find it surprising certain drivers have won what events when I look at there website. Lanigan, Babb and Madden come to mind...

[#FALSuperman]

Interesting topic I was discussing the other day, I thought I would ask 4m their opinion. Kind of like professional sports, every sport has a greatest of all time or a top 10. Scott Bloomquist is the greatest of all time in our sport, I don't think there is much debate there. Rank the top 10 CURRENT late model drivers based on their legacy's. Don't include drivers who you think will be their in 10-15 years...rank the top 10 active drivers. List their accomplishments If you have to, give some reasoning. I think it gets interesting after the top 2-3. Let's keep it civil and have a good debate.

My list

1.) Scott Bloomquist - Not much needs to be said here, has won every major event.
2.) Billy Moyer - In my opinion, undoubtedly the second best driver of all time. Don't need to list any accomplishments here.
3.) Jimmy Owens - Maybe the best 5 year stretch in late model history.
4.) Jonathan Davenport - 2015, best year ever for a late model driver. 2 Time lucas oil champ, still young and has won plenty of crown jewels already.
5.) Rick Eckert - Here's where it gets tough, DTWC winner, Dream, USA Nats, WoO Champ
6.) Tim McCreadie - WoO champ, World 100, USA Nats, Knoxville
7.) Dale McDowell - World 100, Dream, USA Nats
8.) Brian Birkhofer - World 100 x 2, DTWC
9.) Don O'Neal - Lucas oil title, Dream, DTWC
10.) Darrell Lanigan - WoO champ, Dream, DTWC



5-10 is a tough call.

I would replace (drop) Eckert with Richards and perhaps Lanigan with EPJ although that is like splitting hairs.
Good list overall.

[Pennsboro23]

Maybe I'm weighing crown jewel wins too much...

[MI Dirt Fan]

Maybe I'm weighing crown jewel wins too much...

Actually I think you missed one on Oneal. I think he has a USA nationals win last year or the year before.

[Barbecueboy]

Bloomquist
Moyer
Owens
Richards
EPJ
Oneal
McDowell
Birky
Davenport
Mars

Lanigan and ekert would be honorable mention.

[fastford]

penn , only thing i would do is move McDowell up be hind owens , in the late 90s and early 2000s , he won about every where he unloaded that rocket ,

[Pennsboro23]

Bloomquist
Moyer
Owens
Richards
EPJ
Oneal
McDowell
Birky
Davenport
Mars

Lanigan and ekert would be honorable mention.


Just a friendly debate but you have Davenport that low? Especially below Birky?

The thing Birky has going for him is 2 x World 100 and DTWC. JD has two globes as well and 2 lucas oil championships plus numerous other crown jewel wins. I think the Dream and North South 100 wins put him ahead of Birky.

[Pennsboro23]

After hearing others opinions, re doing it and looking through crown jewel wins, here's what I would change to.

1.) Scott Bloomquist
2.) Billy Moyer
3.) Jimmy Owens
4.) Jonathan Davenport
5.) Dale McDowell
6.) Josh Richards
7.) Don O'Neal
8.) Brian Birkhofer
9.) Rick Eckert
10.) Earl Pearson jr
11.) Tim McCreadie
12.) Darrell Lanigan

[MI Dirt Fan]

I'm not just looking at "crown jewels" and touring championships but other pretty big wins as well. Topless, Blue/gray, hillbilly, National 100 etc.

Notice the one thing both 1 and 2 have in common? They both run there own chassis.

[Kwd1253]

I agree 100% with Bayko. Richards is definitely in there about where Tmac is. I don't know if Tmac would be in my top 10. Probably honorable mention. But Richards definitely is. He is still shy of a few major wins but he definitely has to be considered.

I think one of the only major events Bloomquist hasn't won is the PDC.

Have to say josh great point racer, yes. But tmac has won way more major events and Crown Jewels than josh has. If tmac should only be a honorable mention, josh should be honorable mention below tmac.

Josh - dtwc, firecracker 100, Pittsburgh 100, pdc, USA national
Tmac- bad boy 98, Jackson 100, Knoxville, north south, pdc, silver dollar nationals, topless 100, USA national, world 100

[Barbecueboy]

Just a friendly debate but you have Davenport that low? Especially below Birky?

The thing Birky has going for him is 2 x World 100 and DTWC. JD has two globes as well and 2 lucas oil championships plus numerous other crown jewel wins. I think the Dream and North South 100 wins put him ahead of Birky.

I was just looking at the entire career and what they have done as a whole throughout.....the only reason, and I mean the only reason I have it like that is because I think JD is just getting started and Birky is winding down.

5 years from now my list looks entirely different and JD moves much higher.

Plus, isn't JD just a regional cushion pounder anyway??? Lol

[Pennsboro23]

I was just looking at the entire career and what they have done as a whole throughout.....the only reason, and I mean the only reason I have it like that is because I think JD is just getting started and Birky is winding down.

5 years from now my list looks entirely different and JD moves much higher.

Plus, isn't JD just a regional cushion pounder anyway??? Lol

That's what I've read on 4m anyway....

[MI Dirt Fan]

Have to say josh great point racer, yes. But tmac has won way more major events and Crown Jewels than josh has. If tmac should only be a honorable mention, josh should be honorable mention below tmac.

Josh - dtwc, firecracker 100, Pittsburgh 100, pdc, USA national
Tmac- bad boy 98, Jackson 100, Knoxville, north south, pdc, silver dollar nationals, topless 100, USA national, world 100
But then on the other hand when you throw in touring like pennsboro did, Richards 5 national series to tmac's 1 from 12 yrs ago. And his are in both series. I think the Lucas title really solidified him into the discussion.

[badacefaist19]

What about Shane Clanton?

WoO Champ, Dream, World 100, Firecracker 100

[Barbecueboy]

That's what I've read on 4m anyway....

Good stuff penn......great thread.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Shocked that your top 10 wouldn't include EPJ......doesn't make it wrong, just strange he wouldn't be in that conversation considering what he has won over the years.

I kind of saw this one coming. lol

[Barbecueboy]

I kind of saw this one coming. lol

4 time Lucas champ....world 100 winner( best ever world btw)....dtwc winner etc.

Has won all over the place , drives people clean, and is a really good guy.

Still very active in the sport after a very long career......what's not to like?

[Clayton_Wetter]

Do you suppose Illtaste is going to prepare a "SPECIAL TOP TEN LIST???? hahahhaahaaa

BTW Birky is not top ten.

[Clayton_Wetter]

4 time Lucas champ....world 100 winner( best ever world btw)....dtwc winner etc.

Has won all over the place , drives people clean, and is a really good guy.

Still very active in the sport after a very long career......what's not to like?

Okay okay, EPJ in and Birky out!!!! :)

[Pennsboro23]

Is Chub going overlooked any? Many STARS series championships, DTWC, Hillbilly 100 and World 100 wins...

[HoosierDirtFan]

Do you suppose Illtaste is going to prepare a "SPECIAL TOP TEN LIST???? hahahhaahaaa

BTW Birky is not top ten.

if he did post a list he'd have pierce on it no question :).

[MI Dirt Fan]

Well he has already said he's the most talented dirt LM driver in the World.

[WildBill32]

Moyer has six Globes and that speaks for its-self. And he has the most over all wins as well... Now if it was the amount of time racing Dirt Late Models. In his very short career of racing Dirt Late Models Jeff Purvis won three Globes in four years.(A record that still stands) And won many other BIG races during that pierod of time as well.

[MI Dirt Fan]

I would take Bloomquists 8 Dream wins alone over 2 guys whole careers in some of these top 10's.

[MI Dirt Fan]

Now if it was the amount of time racing Dirt Late Models. In his very short career of racing Dirt Late Models Jeff Purvis won three Globes in four years.(A record that still stands) And won many other BIG races during that pierod of time as well.

Says active drivers in the original post.

[bleedsbluer2]

Bloomquist,moyer,owens,davenport,oneal,pierce,chub frank,sheppard,richards,delmas conley look how many wins and still winning

[MI Dirt Fan]

Bloomquist
Moyer
Owens
Lanigan
Richards
EPJ
McDowell
Davenport
O'Neal
Tmac

I originally said in another post I'm not sure if Tmac would be in my top ten but I retracted that and putting him in at #10 currently.

[Clayton_Wetter]

if he did post a list he'd have pierce on it no question :).

And first most likely......

[HoosierDirtFan]

Counting - Crown Jewel wins, Tour Championships, along with longevity (how long they've been good).
Bloomquist
Moyer
Owens
O'Neal
McDowell
Davenport
Pearson
Richards
Eckert
Frank
McCreadie
Lanigan

Honorable Mention
Mars, Birkhofer, Clanton

[play4kps]

Pearson should be 4th behind Bloomquist, Moyer and Owens, and Lanigan should be much higher, I know he has had a few bad years, but a lot of good ones before that. And Tmac has always been one of the best and an obvious threat anyplace.

[formercrewguy]

How about doing a money won over a career? Would be interesting.

[Pennsboro23]

Pearson should be 4th behind Bloomquist, Moyer and Owens, and Lanigan should be much higher, I know he has had a few bad years, but a lot of good ones before that. And Tmac has always been one of the best and an obvious threat anyplace.

The thing is, you can make an argument for anyone being flip flopped between 4-12.

[MI Dirt Fan]

The thing is, you can make an argument for anyone being flip flopped between 4-12.

Definitely. That's why it'll be an endless debate.

[MI Dirt Fan]

How about doing a money won over a career? Would be interesting.

I don't know how we would get exact numbers. That would take a year atleast of research and probably quite a few dead ends.

[formercrewguy]

I don't know how we would get exact numbers. That would take a year atleast of research and probably quite a few dead ends.

Probably right. But I'll put 1 guy in the top 10...…..Donnie Moran!! lol

[MI Dirt Fan]

Oh I'm sure most in the top tens listed here would be in it. lol

[fastford]

Counting - Crown Jewel wins, Tour Championships, along with longevity (how long they've been good).
Bloomquist
Moyer
Owens
O'Neal
McDowell
Davenport
Pearson
Richards
Eckert
Frank
McCreadie
Lanigan

Honorable Mention
Mars, Birkhofer, Clanton

forgot about oneal , i think you are right on HDF , i will go with your list........

[CageFaraday]

TOP 10: "Active Drivers"

1.) Billy Moyer - In my opinion, undoubtedly the best driver of all time.
6x Globes, 6x UMP Sumer Nats Champ, 5x USA Nats, 2x Dream, 835 Wins...
2.) Scott Bloomquist - Scott I think may be a tick sharper on setup than Moyer, but also a tick less on driving.
3.) Dale McDowell - World 100, Dream, USA Nats, Hav-A-Tampa Title & Shootout
4.) Don O'Neal - Lucas oil title, Dream, DTWC, HAT Shootout
5.) Ronnie Johnson - DTWC x2, SAS Champion, Won during NDRA era, etc.
6.) Jimmy Owens - Maybe the best 5 year stretch in late model history.
7.) Jonathan Davenport - 2015, best year ever for a late model driver, Lucas oil 2x, etc.
8.) Chris Madden - Because I think he's earned a place on the list.
9.) Shane Clanton - World 100, WoO Title, Dream, 2x Mag 100, etc.
10.) Shannon Babb - Topless, HAT Shootout, UMP, etc.


* I originally had Josh #9 and BShep #10, but I thought of a few more and they are both young. My list does NOT reflect current performance but the breadth of their careers in total. Honestly I could've gone with 15.

** 6 thru 10 were difficult to differentiate as I see them as of equal talent and capability.

*** Had this list included inactive drivers as well I would've put:
Donnie Moran #3
Freddie Smith #4
Larry Moore #5
Buck Simmons #6

[MI Dirt Fan]

I still don't understand why winning the World basically defines your career. Tony Stewart never won the 500 but can be considered one of the best drivers ever in NASCAR.

[CageFaraday]

I still don't understand why winning the World basically defines your career.

Because its tough to do and for a couple of decades 150+ other guys were in your way. Because the 500 ain't what it use to be, its more about the car and blind luck.

[Dlmfan123]

Scott Bloomquist, billy Moyer and Donnie moran are my top 3

[MI Dirt Fan]

3 of the 6 came with 200+ cars. Not disputing. Just putting the facts there

If someone won 6 World 100's and nothing else would that automatically define thier career as the best ever then?

[JabberJaws83]

Bloomquist
Moyer
Owens
Davenport
O’Neal
EPJ
Mcreadie
Richards
McDowell
Eckert

[MI Dirt Fan]

Just a side note. DoD does recognize Babb as the 2004 Lucas Oil champion. I know the schedule isn't comparable to what it is now but just putting it out there.

[TBSprintFan]

3 of the 6 came with 200+ cars.

If someone won 6 World 100's and nothing else would that automatically define thier career as the best ever then?

There will never be a system to call 1 driver or sports athlete the Greatest of all Time or GOAT. I am a fan of Scott Bloomquist, but most people on here calling him the Greatest of all Time never saw the full careers of such drivers as Buck Simmons, Jeff Purvis, Larry Moore, etc. (myself included) and some of these drivers were racing well before the 1st World 100 which was in 1971 and most of these so called crown jewels are only less than 20 years old (but back then there may have been other big races which would have been considered a crown jewel now). Plus how many more drivers were at races before which made it harder to win. This is from the Grammarphobia website

The word “goat” has been used in American sports since the early 1900s, first as a derisive term for a player responsible for a team’s loss, and later, often in capital letters, as an acronym for “greatest of all time.”

and this also

the earliest example we could find for “G.O.A.T.” used to mean ”greatest of all time” is from September 1992, when Lonnie Ali, Muhammad Ali’s wife, incorporated Greatest of All Time, Inc. (G.O.A.T. Inc.) to consolidate and license her husband’s intellectual properties for commercial purposes.

So to call Bloomquist or any other person the Greatest of all Time is just bull $hit.

[ZERO25]

Bloomquist
Owens
Richards
Moyer
EPJ
McDowell
Davenport
O'Neal
Madden

[MI Dirt Fan]

TBsprintfan

The top 10 was for active drivers only and there was no mention of anyone being called a goat or and other references of that.

[Kwd1253]

Since Phil not around at this moment I might as well speak for him.

Phil ,"it don't matter who you put 2nd-10th. There only one name matter on that list, that is BLOOMQUIST aka black sunshine bka THE G.O.A.T". 😂😂😂

[ZERO25]

Since Phil not around at this moment I might as well speak for him.

Phil ,"it don't matter who you put 2nd-10th. There only one name matter on that list, that is BLOOMQUIST aka black sunshine bka THE G.O.A.T". 

LOL....I was going to post 1.Bloomer, 2.EPJ, and rest don't matter....

.....but I didn't want to get accused of pot-stirring! :)

[klemmabyna]

Pennsboro23: great thread!!!

to those posting here: this is what 4m once was and should be. enjoying the opinions and debate. will try to get the rest of my list together tomorrow. it starts with 1. moyer 2. bloomquist 3. owens

will be harder to justify my order of 4 through 10, but i'll come up with some line of bull...., I mean logic.

[Barbecueboy]

LOL....I was going to post 1.Bloomer, 2.EPJ, and rest don't matter....

.....but I didn't want to get accused of pot-stirring! :)

Fantastic.....

[Krooser]

I didn't even make it on MY list...

[dirtcrazy4u]

Darn thing said current yet donnie Moran keeps getting mentioned, geeeeeeesh.

My top ten taking a pace lap at big E. CURRENT DRIVERS.

Bloomer, if he shows up on time he mite win a few more
Moyer, in his prime, he was the goat
Owens, if he gets that magic back, look out
Oneal, I see a 2019 comeback
Richards, great points racer that just keeps racking wins up
EPJ, another guy that I think will be pushing for another lucas title in 2019
T-mac, glad to see him get a globe, goes well with his other top wins
Birkie, fine career
Clanton, he was the woo
Sheppard, he is the woo

[hucktyson]

Bloomquist 1-5 then pick numbers out of a hat after that

[hucktyson]

In the words of radical leftist race baiter KRS1 ..... with Bloomquist “ I ain’t sayin he’s number 1 oh I’m sorry I lied he’s number 1,2,3 , 4 and 5 “

[MI Dirt Fan]

Well. You can add another DTWC to Richards.