Do Provisionals need to be a limited number, yes or no?

[TBSprintFan]

Do Provisionals need to be a limited number, yes or no?

All these provisionals that drivers get are starting to become a joke. They should be limited to a maximum of 3 the first 1/2 of the year and and then 3 the other half. If touring drivers can't qualify after that then the most you get is fuel money/ show up fee. I bet Drydene is thinking that, wow there must have been a better driver that we could have sponsored.

[RiffRaf67]

No, they dont need to be limited, they need to be eliminated.

[Highside Hustler25]

Yes!
Yes!
Yes!
Yes!
Yes!
Yes!
YES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I nominate you as race official for both touring series.

By handing out all of these provisionals, all they are doing is pushing regional guys away from these specials when they come to town. Quite a few super lates stay home when the traveling series comes to town. When you know 14 spots are already spoken for, it makes you rethink your gameplan.

[TS FAN]

Tour provisionals are necessary IMO. Plus they are here to stay. Beyond that, It is up to the track.

[plunks7]

No, they dont need to be limited, they need to be eliminated.

Finally someone gets it!!! Great post

[nc mudcat]

Limited I think. There should be 2 or 3 on the year for the guys that run the whole tour. But they should be starting spots that aren't taking a spot away from another competitor. I think if you plan to start 24, and a touring guy needs a provisional, he starts 25th so no one loses out.

[Snake X3]

The touring series have them for a reason. I'd hate to go to a race to see JD or Bloomer or Pierce...whoever, then they don't get to run because of some bad luck. That said, there's a big difference between missing a show because of bad luck and an endless parade of backmarkers clogging up the track because they are using their 30th provisional of the year (see Colton Flinner). I would say everyone on tour gets 2 per season. If your luck is so bad that you need more than two, oh well.

I don't know the exact figures, but it seems the overuse of provisionals is especially true in WoO. I think that is because of the quality of competition being such that many of their touring guys aren't much better than average regional/local guys.

All that said, if there was a vote to end provisionals, I would be for it.

[TS FAN]

Without provisionals the tours would not be able to exist. There is no way. It cost a lot of money for teams to run these series. Of course I realize you all know that. Tours with no provisionals go belly up.
Not enough drivers could risk following them.

[TerryM]

I can see both sides of the debate, but the bottom line is, they’re necessary for touring series. The upside for fans is we get to see more good cars in the feature — and we get to see some strong cars coming from the back of the field. I do agree there should be a limited number for each driver though, but I have no clue what that number should be. Anyone know who used the most on each tour last year? And how many they used?

[Snake X3]

@TerryM - I can tally it up. It will be easier to do Lucas because they report that info in their race reports, but I can get the info on WoO from the DoD RaceWires.

[TBSprintFan]

Please do because it will be interesting to see those stats.

[Highside Hustler25]

I can tell you that everyone that entered all 40 WoO events last year, started every main event.

[fryefan]

Without provisionals the tours would not be able to exist. There is no way. It cost a lot of money for teams to run these series. Of course I realize you all know that. Tours with no provisionals go belly up.
Not enough drivers could risk following them.

You hit the nail on the head. I agree.

[Snake X3]

I finished Lucas from 2018. I counted only the 44 points paying events and did not include prelims etc.

Of the 44 races I tallied, 31 had at least one series provisional used. Two of the races had track or fast time provisionals for non-series regulars but none for series regulars. There were 14 series regulars through August when Hudson O'Neal dropped off. Boom Briggs and Mike Maresca received series provisionals although they didn't follow the tour past the first few races.

Lucas uses up to 2 series provisionals and 2 emergency provisions per race. The emergency provisionals are used when more than 2 provisionals are needed for series regulars.

There were 14 Emergency provisionals given. They were awarded to:

Lanigan: 3
Boom Briggs: 2
Saterlee: 2
Erb Jr: 2
Zeigler: 2
Pierce: 1
EPJ: 1
Maresca: 1

More in a bit. The race is starting.

[plunks7]

Who is Piece? :) :)

[Snake X3]

Here is the rest of it. Total Provisionals = Series Provisionals + Emergency Provisionals

Driver Total Series Emergency
===============================================
Saterlee 10 = 8 + 2
Erb Jr 6 = 4 + 2
Tmac 6 = 6 + 0
Lanigan 5 = 2 + 3
Briggs 5 = 3 + 2
Zeigler 4 = 2 + 2
Pierce 4 = 3 + 1
Owens 4 = 4 + 0
Bronson 4 = 4 + 0
Bloomer 4 = 4 + 0
Richards 4 = 4 + 0
EPJ 2 = 1 + 1
Don O'Neal 2 = 2 + 0
JD 2 = 2 + 0
Hudson O'Neal 2 = 2 + 0
Maresca 1 = 0 + 1


There were a total of 51 series provisionals, 14 Emergency Provisionals, 7 Quick Time Provisionals for Non-Series Regulars and 31 Track Provisionals for Non-Series Regulars for a total of 103 Provisionals in 44 Points Races

[Snake X3]

Who is Piece? :) :)

LOL...Wise guy!

[ZERO25]

Who is Piece? :) :)

Ricky Weese's brother! :)

You'll have to watch the ppv to understand!

[dirt crow]

2 provisionals have always been the standard in series. Just get rid of emergency provisionals.

[Snake X3]

Here are the stats on World of Outlaws provisionals. This was difficult to tabulate because WoO doesn’t include provisionals in their race reports so I had to go off DoD’s Race Wire (which is very accurate). There is also the issue that many WoO races didn’t draw full fields or everyone that could start, did start. So of the 40 points paying races, 5 had less than 24 cars starting and another 3 races had 25 or 26 start the feature and there was no B-Mains or everyone that could start, did start…couldn’t really tell.

So there were really only 33 races where cars needed provisionals to start. In those races 105 used Provisionals to Start.

Driver – Starts – DNQ – Provisionals
Larsen.................40-0-12
MoBags...............20-0-9
Spencer............... 8-8-6
Chubb.................15-0-5
Junghans.............40-0-5
Ferguson.............23-1-4
Overton...............13-1-4
Culp....................10-0-4
Moran.................40-0-4
Breazeale............40-0-3
Tyler Erb.............40-0-3
Clanton...............40-0-2
Eckert.................40-0-2
Marlar.................40-0-2
Madden..............40-0-1
Sheppard............40-0-0

[Snake X3]

Ricky Weese's brother! :)

You'll have to watch the ppv to understand!

Possibly the greatest DoD chat EVER!!

[Snake X3]

A couple more stats to follow up...

For WoO - of the 33 races where provisionals were possible to be used, drivers that were following the series full-time used 66, for an average of 2.0 provisional starters per race.

For Lucas - of the 44 points paying races where provisionals could be used, drivers that were following the series full-time used 65, for an average of 1.47 provisional starters per race.

Lucas gave out a total of 103 provisionals for all competing drivers for an average of 2.34 provisionals per race.
WoO gave out a total of 105 provisionals for all competing drivers for an average of 3.18 provisionals per race.

[Snake X3]

Of the touring regulars in both series including those that dropped off the tours, the highest percentage of provisionals received went to:

Blake Spencer - 75.00%
Morgan Bagley - 45.00%
Timmy Culp - 40.00%
Larsen - 36.36%
Chubb Frank - 33.33%
Overton - 30.77%
Saterlee - 22.73%
Ferguson - 17.39%
Junghans - 15.15%
Erb Jr - 13.64%
Tmac - 13.64%
Moran - 12.12%
Lanigan - 11.36%

What I find interesting is 10 of the 13 drivers that used provisionals more than 9% of the time either changed series the following year or dropped off their tour early.

[TBSprintFan]

Thanks for the info. I so far know in 2019 WoOlms, 4 races, B1 Brent Larson = 4 Provisionals = 100% How sad that they allow this many provisionals. .

[ThebigE]

I wish it was more like Supercross where you don't get provisionals. Why reward somebody a starting spot when they didn't earn it? Your just taking away from somebody else that actually should have made it.

[TerryM]

First of all, huge shoutout to Snake. That is awesome research. This thread is like the early days of 4m. Kudos, bro.

Secondly, how about Brandon Sheppard with zero provisionals used? That is impressive!

[TS FAN]

I was thinking the same thing. WOW, the snake is on the job.

[Snake X3]

You're welcome guys. I enjoy doing it and I'm happy to post it up here. I'm sure I made some mistakes but it's very close. Wish I had been around 4M back in the good old days.

I have a database I keep up with that has thousands of drivers. In the past I've tracked chassis/engine combos for all the drivers. This year I am adding shocks. The past couple of years I posted up stats after Speedweeks for the various combos. Hopefully I'll have that done in a few days.

Sheppy going an entire season without any provisionals is amazing. It certainly speaks to his skill and the team's preparation. You need luck on your side too. Especially in the big shows it's very easy to fail to get in through a B. I have to look and see if Sheppy missed any of the Lucas shows because he didn't have a provisional. I'm pretty sure he missed the Dream because I remember him winning the Dash...might have been a different year though.

[Snake X3]

I just read on DoD that Marlar had a provisional for last night's race, but declined it. He should be the hero of this thread.

[TS FAN]

I think Marlar's car came up lame, and couldn't make it to the start. Understand, I am saying I think that was the case. He is not running for points either. Right?

[Snake X3]

I think Marlar's car came up lame, and couldn't make it to the start. Understand, I am saying I think that was the case. He is not running for points either. Right?

No. He isn't running for points

[matdaddy]

they might as well give them all the provisional starts they need , they let ole cheating ass TP still race

[Bill31]

I believe when it was Hav-aTampa or UDTRA they had 3 provisionals at the start of the season and for a certain number of races attended you could earn more throughout the season. As I recall (I am getting old !) Wendell Wallace had decided not to run the UDTRA series one year and used all three of his provisionals at EastBay.

[Krooser]

The fans want to see big fields... nothing worse than a 14 car field. They come to see the stars...

The provisionals guarantee that if you follow the series you at least get a shot at making the race. There aren't enough guys running any series to guarantee a full field and a good shoow.

Provisionals, promoters choices, etc. have been around for 75 years.

I used to have my fans vote to add one driver to the main event based on applause... helped the guy who didn't make it because he broke or wrecked in the heats. Always switched up the names so no two guys made it into the feature more than once per season. Gave the little guy a chance to run with the fast guys...

I can understand packing the field with every car in attendance... maybe cut it off at some number.

[Raceready]

they might as well give them all the provisional starts they need , they let ole cheating ass TP still race Tom Pistone ?

[play4kps]

Exactly, they need to be eliminated!

[PH88N92]

Some guys just use the provisional to get the start money too. They take the green flag on 6 cylinders and pull off. I've seen that done many times. Maybe with a provisional starting spot your guaranteed money drops by 1/2.

[dch191]

Some guys just use the provisional to get the start money too. They take the green flag on 6 cylinders and pull off. I've seen that done many times. Maybe with a provisional starting spot your guaranteed money drops by 1/2.

I was thinking something along the same lines as you as far as losing some of your purse. Half may be a bit extreme for me. Maybe you forfeit 5% of your winnings for your first provisional, 10% for your second and follow that pattern up to 30-50% max forfeiture.

[Josh Bayko]

Some guys just use the provisional to get the start money too. They take the green flag on 6 cylinders and pull off. I've seen that done many times. Maybe with a provisional starting spot your guaranteed money drops by 1/2.

Provisionals don't get start money.

[Dlmfan123]

Provisionals don't get start money.Most provisionals do get start money

[Josh Bayko]

Most provisionals do get start money

Emergency provisionals are not. They get their show up money, but typically forfeit start money.

[Raceready]

they might as well give them all the provisional starts they need , they let ole cheating ass TP still race Todd Parrott ?