Charlie Swartz Mid Engine Wedge

[Clayton_Wetter]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/65/7b/6b/657b6b5b88f75972c9f0d3331566e94a.jpg
Does anyone have any info on this car. Whether it was allowed to race, etc?

[chupp n bloomer fan]

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/65/7b/6b/657b6b5b88f75972c9f0d3331566e94a.jpg
Does anyone have any info on this car. Whether it was allowed to race, etc?Yeah. I believe he raced it at Pennsboro, say 1985 DTWC??

[Clayton_Wetter]

Since I can remember, tracks have had an engine setback rule, maybe not all tracks then?

[Clayton_Wetter]

C & B it would have to be before 1985, because UMP was created in 1984.

[snow121]

Ran at Concord,N.C big 10 series. Loy Allen had one also.

[rdcllk]

Im thinking there was a thread on here. Awhile back, Talking about this car.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Did the car win any races? A MR car seemingly would have an advantage, at least on blacktop they would.

[CIRF]

Chargin' Charlies' mid engine late model design was quite promptly deemed "not in the spirit of traditional late model design", or something to that effect, outlawed and banished to the scrap pile labeled unacceptable. In today's world of jacked up, twisted up, science fiction style nose piece dirt late models, Charlies' wedge seems quite tame in regards to departure from the "spirit" of what a dirt late model should be. Was the wedge design as far out as the DLM's of today? Doubtful.

What the wedge car represented, had it survived, was the obsolescence of literally millions of dollars worth of equipment and nearly all the knowledge anyone had about the geometry and characteristics of a "regular" DLM at that time. The costs and learning curve was more steep than the rank and file DLM team wanted to embark upon.

[CIRF]

Did the car win any races? A MR car seemingly would have an advantage, at least on blacktop they would.As cnbf said, it won at Pensboro. It may have won a couple more, as well. Dependability was a huge problem for Charlie's wedge car, but when it was running to it's capability it was unbeatable by the standard late models of that era. Hell, it might be faster than today's twisted up creations!!


C & B it would have to be before 1985, because UMP was created in 1984.
Clay, not positive but I think Charlie brought the wedge to The Springfield Mile back in the fall of 1983. Springfield might have been the last hurrah for ol' Charlie's wedge.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Charlie Swartz won the DTWC in 1982 in this car. Front engine.

https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/wpimages/images/images1/1/0211/27/1_b83cce2156ece1f3d26fb56c67e60ac7.jpg

[billetbirdcage]

I really wish I could remember who or when this was but:

The rule on engine set back was 6" from the LF ball joint to the #1 spark plug.

So a guy had installed the engine backwards with the front of the engine to the back of the car, so the balancer end is what hooked to the transmission and used a reverse rotation rear end.

I know I stumbled on it a long time ago, but don't remember a whole lot about it. But I do think it wasn't a Chevy engine and something weird like a Olds or Buick. I just can't remember because if you install backwards the #1 cylinder is farther back on a Chevy making it more illegal so while this doesn't sound right, there was something about it. Maybe he used an engine that has #1 marked as one of the rear cylinders.

Any one remember something like this?

[Bubstr]

C & B it would have to be before 1985, because UMP was created in 1984.

True, there where quite a few that got a little exotic. UMP was supposed to make it so you could run everywhere in the country under the same rules. It didn't exactly work that way.

[CIRF]

Charlie Swartz won the DTWC in 1982 in this car. Front engine.

Thanks for setting the record straight, Clay. I humbly stand corrected. I'm working on memory now but I recently read that Charlie won 2 races in the wedge and I mistakenly took it for granted that the DTWC at Pennsboro was one of them. I know that Charlie and Ray Callahan collaborated on the design and construction of the car and IIRC they built it to win the DTWC. The way the legend goes is that Ray and Charlie built the original wedge in Charlie's shop under very tight security. There was too much activity at Ray's shop in Springfield, Illinois to allow for much secrecy.

For those that don't follow the midgets, or more specifically, Keith Kunz and his older brother Rusty, they both learned the basics of race car design and construction from Ray Callahan. I believe KKM produced midget chassis known as Bullet Chassis somewhat in honor of Ray who's DLM chassis were known as Bullit.

[Clayton_Wetter]

CIRF Charlie killed them with this car that they put together at the last minutes, for secrecies sake. He was way too much for the entire field.

The 1982 win was his only DTWC win.

[zyoung25]

I really wish I could remember who or when this was but:

The rule on engine set back was 6" from the LF ball joint to the #1 spark plug.

So a guy had installed the engine backwards with the front of the engine to the back of the car, so the balancer end is what hooked to the transmission and used a reverse rotation rear end.

I know I stumbled on it a long time ago, but don't remember a whole lot about it. But I do think it wasn't a Chevy engine and something weird like a Olds or Buick. I just can't remember because if you install backwards the #1 cylinder is farther back on a Chevy making it more illegal so while this doesn't sound right, there was something about it. Maybe he used an engine that has #1 marked as one of the rear cylinders.

Any one remember something like this?

This thing was before my time, but I like to read. From what I've read it was Donovan big block Chevy. They claimed the angle between the rear and tranny pretty much made it impossible to keep drive shafts in it. One thing I read said he had it southern Ohio speedway and was qualifying with it. The drive shaft came apart, and somehow got into the drivers compartment, and skinned Charlie up pretty bad.

It's claimed the car ran 5 races in South Carolina before it was banned. When and where those races were.....ive never seen.

The Loy Allen car got torn up before it even made a lap. The car Loy drove, is the one that was redone as Charlie's replica few years ago. Charlie's original car was in Minnesota, and is in pretty good shape. It was for sale awhile back for a cool 20k.

Most of this info came from Charlie's daughter. They have a Facebook page that's dedicated to Charlie, that she runs.

[Crash 4]

https://www.racingjunk.com/Vintage/183140146/Charlie-SWARTZ-mid-engine.html?category_id=5310&np_offset=10

Still on RacingJunk

[EvelB7]

As it said earlier, they ran the car in a couple of 'Big 10' races in Concord, that is where the pic was taken. Paved tri-oval now that hardly runs anymore.

[gorj]

As it said earlier, they ran the car in a couple of 'Big 10' races in Concord, that is where the pic was taken. Paved tri-oval now that hardly runs anymore.

These wedge cars were awesome. I saw Charlies's mid-engine car run at Henry Furr's
Concord Motor Speedway. He passed away 2 years ago. The Big Ten races were great.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Thanks for setting the record straight, Clay. I humbly stand corrected. I'm working on memory now but I recently read that Charlie won 2 races in the wedge and I mistakenly took it for granted that the DTWC at Pennsboro was one of them. I know that Charlie and Ray Callahan collaborated on the design and construction of the car and IIRC they built it to win the DTWC. The way the legend goes is that Ray and Charlie built the original wedge in Charlie's shop under very tight security. There was too much activity at Ray's shop in Springfield, Illinois to allow for much secrecy.

For those that don't follow the midgets, or more specifically, Keith Kunz and his older brother Rusty, they both learned the basics of race car design and construction from Ray Callahan. I believe KKM produced midget chassis known as Bullet Chassis somewhat in honor of Ray who's DLM chassis were known as Bullit.

He also ran that car at the Springfield mile. NTR also.

[intel8]

I do believe this car has been restored and is owned by I 94 Speedway promoter in Minnesota. This was posted a while back on Facebook, I will try and find the info.

[CIRF]

He also ran that car at the Springfield mile. NTR also.

Yep, I mentioned that in post #13.

[Raceready]

I remember the stock make of the production car that it was supposed to represent was a Pontiac Feiro since it was a mid engine design.

[wallis127]

Here it is...

[Raceready]

Charlie liked driving it because he said he felt like he was able to dive in a little deeper and get a little bit closer on the car in front of him.

[Southern Ohio Racer]

I got to talk with Charlie about the mid-engine car, back when he was trying to run it. He said it was super fast on a wet, heavy track. When the track dried out it would start to push really bad.
It was called a Pontiac Fiero, due to the mid-engine design.
Charlie always pushed the envelope with his cars, so him trying the idea fitted right in.

[RRRKKK]

I remember him saying that it took some time to get used to the steering. He sat so far forward the geometry
was different.

[MasterSbilt_Racer]

I got to talk with Charlie about the mid-engine car, back when he was trying to run it. He said it was super fast on a wet, heavy track. When the track dried out it would start to push really bad.
It was called a Pontiac Fiero, due to the mid-engine design.
Charlie always pushed the envelope with his cars, so him trying the idea fitted right in.

The Fiero debuted in 1983.

[Crashmagnet]

As a child, I remember Charlie telling my Dad that the car was always awesome,...... til the driveshaft flew out. Memory serves that was its Achilles heel while it and the other one that Loy Allen drove. (Which I think JW had originally bought for Jimmy (Hunt)) was allowed to run.

[Clayton_Wetter]

Speaking of Charlie and drive shaft trouble. I saw Charlie stand a car on it's nose when the driveshaft dropped from the front and dug in at Paragon Speedway in Indiana back around 1980. It was really a wild ride he took. Believe it might have been the first Ronnie Johnson Rayburn car, a red number 5.